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Slightly off topic, but what frustrates me about all this is that there is absolutely no outrage in France about the DGSE's absolutely heinous practices in this domain. Complete domestic surveillance without ANY legal framework whatsoever, not even some stage court like FISA court.



There's a huge difference between being spied upon by your own government and being spied upon by some manifest-destiny-following foreigner.


And what if, due to collaboration, they both spied on you together?


Well you still blame America because they probably forced them to do it.


Not entirely fair. French citizens should still hold their own government accountable for caving to US demands.


Non-Americans shouldn't assume that the US is the only country that feels justified in spying on them or that necessarily their country only cooperates with the US because of fear or extortion.

It's also likely every nation shares the motive, but it just happens that the US provides the means.


And that would be?


One ostensibly controls (through the ballot box) a domestic outfit. Ostensibly being the operative word.

Plus, it's hard to storm the Bastille if it happens to be overseas.


Maybe I'm too cynical, but I call your bluff on both of those.

At this point, it appears that our elected representatives all have the same means in mind, regardless of the ends they seek (I would also argue that the sought-ends are the same, too, but I get into a tin-foil hatty area with that). That is across all nations and all parties. Whether it is a domestic or foreign outfit, the means are the same, and I would argue that fact outweighs whatever the theoretical end would be.

Also, with the military might of modern 1st world countries, I don't really believe that it matters if you have to cross an ocean first if you are going to literally storm the Bastille; and with the internet age, the distance doesn't really matter for a figurative storm, either.


> Also, with the military might of modern 1st world countries, I don't really believe that it matters if you have to cross an ocean first if you are going to literally storm the Bastille; and with the internet age, the distance doesn't really matter for a figurative storm, either.

A history lesson - storming the bastille [1] is not done by a military, but by pitchfork wielding mobs. Yes, it's going to be tougher to "throw out the bums" if they happen to be a distant country with modern armaments.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storming_of_the_Bastille




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