#1 is not a GS3 problem, it is a carrier problem specific to Vodafone, which had a marketing deal with Pizza Hut at the time of the GS3's release. Other carriers did not forcibly include undeletable Pizza Hut bookmarks.
I don't like it any more than you, but to Samsung and its investors, the undeletable Pizza Hut bookmark is a feature. Not only does it generate additional revenue with little additional design time, but it also indicates that Samsung has a healthy and attractive business in which other businesses would like to participate.
Somehow I find it hard to interpret an undeletable Pizza Hut bookmark as a sign of a healthy business.
It has the familiar smell of desperation to monetize everything. Unless of course Samsung is striving to be known as the Ryanair of consumer electronics.
We blame Samsung. Most users will just deal with it. Few and far between care enough about crapware to abandon a phone manufacturer over it (assuming they even blame Samsung for it at all).
Marketing people from major companies use a Samsung phone and sees the bookmark will think "I wish our brand was there. How do we reach out to the carrier or Samsung to put our brand there as well?"
a few weeks later in a meeting with a carrier or Samsung, "Yes, we can put a bookmark there for X dollars. However if you want it to be undeletable, you can pay 2X dollars" or "Pizza Hut is paying us 2X dollars for that and we don't want to put more than one there, so you need to outbid pizza hut for that spot."
Really, I think the same. Comparing just a browser bookmark which doesn't always come in your way with an ever intrusive app and loving crapware just because it's from their loved company? I mean, I knew Apple fans are dense, but this is excessive.
Whatever. I just can't argue with a person that believes an ad is the same as a built-in functionality. I can't understand what kind of logic and thinking is going in your head, really.
How about we call it what it is. Advertising. However you frame it, it's advertising. Is it useful? Who cares. It's advertising. Order a pizza using the app and your telco gets paid. Twice. Being able to remove Apple's built in apps is besides the point. Yes, it's mildly irritating that this can't be done, but it's not the same thing. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
Aah. You don't pay to come here, and it's not your property. It's a public forum, which by definition has comments from people which you might or might not like :). Here, only the comments which public on the whole like should be there - and that is already the case - if majority doesn't like it, it'll automatically get suppressed. A phone is a different thing - it's a personal property. Only the things you like should be there on your phone. If that's not the case, it's bad - now favoring one more intrusive crapware and cursing a less intrusive one because of a bias, is bad.
Anyway, you completely missed the point of my comment :).
no one has paid apple to do that. It is not an advertisement. It is more of like internet explorer built in. Whereas undeletable advertisement bookmark is like having a unchangable wallpaper by some third party.
No. Undeleteable advertisement bookmark is just like an undeleteable advertisement bookmark. It's NOT like an unchangeable wallpaper. Bookmark is not always in your eyes - even when you are using the browser! I am surprised that so many iOS fans have trouble understanding it. The unwanted Apple apps, on the other hand, are ALWAYS in your eyes. You understand the difference now?
Newsstand is spam if you want nothing to do with it. It is an imposition upon the device I own. With Android, I can disable any app I want, even built-in ones (for example, Samsung includes a bookmark provider that adds Samsung bookmarks, which I don't want).
Here's a thought: when all you can do is rail against the "haters", you are in a bad state of mind.
Is the phone app spam if I want nothing to do with it? The music app if I don't listen to music? Get real. There's a difference between Newsstand, which exists because it's very common for touch-device users to consolidate their reading subscriptions (as there is one for music and videos), and bloatware, which third parties pay companies to add to the OS and which detract from the experience.
> Is the phone app spam if I want nothing to do with it? The music app if I don't listen to music?
Yes. This is quite real of me, I assure you. If I can't make it Go Away if I have no use for it, it's spam. As it happens, I've consolidated my reading. It isn't in Newsstand. It should not trouble me if I don't want it, and having a "junk" drawer is a sad non-solution.
The common definition of spam is something that most people consider junk but a few people might use, thus justifying inflicting it upon everyone. Your definition is almost the opposite: something that most people find useful but that you happen not to need. This is an abuse if not outright misuse of the term.
Haha, many people just find it too painful to admit they were ever wrong. So once they say they support a given team, party, church, company they start ignoring all evidence against it.
Interesting how after your original argument (the difference between app and bookmark) was defeated you came up with a new one (percentage of people liking).
I don't think anybody made the claim that no app is spam, only, from what I can tell, that no iOS built-in app is spam. Which is more than lots of Android phones can say about their built-in apps.
Many people enjoy getting political news emailed to them. Many, many people. Yet it infuriates me when it gets forwarded to me because it is--wait for it--spam. It is annoying crap I don't want.
Spam is defined as whether it annoys the receiver, not the sender's intentions. And there's no 'unsubscribe' in iOS.
on a browser, would you rather go with suggestive ads by say google, or have google actually install an adbar that everyone under the sun can spam you with ?
And IMMEDIATELY the fandroids come out and pretend that we should be talking about how bad Apple is. +1 for the comment somewhere about how dense Android fans appear to be.
However bad you think Apple might be, Samsung is far, far worse, just much less successful and slick about it. I had thought the old adage about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" was only believed by halfwits, apparently I was wrong.
FWIW, I was the first one in this thread to point out the app deletion issue on the iPhone and I am an iPhone user and haven't yet owned an Android. Undeletable crapware is crapware whether it is installed by Apple, Samsung or the carriers.
Apple was not paid by a third party to include it's own software features.
Game Center is like S Voice, a first part developed software that is billed as a "Feature".
Apple has no equivalent to "Pizza Hut" bookmarks that can't be deleted, because they control their carrier relationships better than Samsung who is willing to give their partners the freedom to install and screw up what they want.
Fortunately, Samsung is generally pretty good about letting us users have custom roms, which IMO trumps the Apple advantage for us power users. A custom rom > non-bloated default iOS, to me.
I'll take a pizza ad over Game Center opening up and asking me to make an account every time I play a game, thanks. But unlike the Apple die-hards, I can admit that both a utter crap.
Actually I think that post-Game Center games are much better behaved. Remember what it used to be like to OpenFeint and whatever the other one was that I don't remember the name of? That was far more obtrusive before Apple put in their own version and everyone started using that instead.
>I'll take a pizza ad over Game Center opening up and asking me to make an account every time I play a game, thanks. But unlike the Apple die-hards, I can admit that both a utter crap.
I totally agree and Google's forced G+ integration with the newer G+ Games services is very frustarting too.
No G+ I do not want your crappy me-too social network attached to my gaming apps.
But as is generally the case, I imagine people will hate Apple and love Google for doing the same business practice...
>>Apple was not paid by a third party to include it's own software features.
I'll point you to the Apple weather app with the prominent Yahoo! link at the bottom left. This would be more tolerable if the app itself wasn't terrible. I really wish I could delete Apple's apps, why not come with them installed and let you remove and re-add, say like podcasts.
Samsung is not pretty good regarding community support, here's an in depth story from a former CyanogenMod maintainer for Samsung's Exynos4 based devices (S2/S3/Note/Note2/etc) [1].
For example, emergency calling functionality was broken for a long time and has been reverse engineered only recently [2].
What do you call newsstand? It's a purely magazine advertising service. Would PizzaHut app be acceptable if it was called PizzaStand and allowed you to select from multiple pizza vendors?
Call it FoodStand, let if fill with food vendors in my neighbourhood (preferably those who offer delivery), and I'm all for it.
That would transform PizzaHut from an obnoxious ad ("seller oriented") to a genuinely useful option I would probably use on occasion ("customer oriented").
I dislike intrusive ads (and spending good money on a physical gadget just to be met by "congratulations, and incidentally you've also bought into a lifelong relationship with this pizza vendor" is intrusive).
But I don't mind being told that "newspapers are here, food is over there"; I might even find it useful at some point.
I still think it would be nice if Apple would let me hide the non-deletable apps I don't use: Let me hide the newsstand icon, pop it up again if I ever decide to subcribe to a newspaper.
But the newsstand doesn't grate me the way a permanent link to any particular magazine would. Any particular magazine is unlikely to be my favorite, it might even be one I hate. That doesn't imply that I hate magazines, newsstands, pizza or food in general.
... but still allow me to delete it if I prefer using another food ordering app instead like GrubHub.
The only apps that should not be deletable are core apps like settings and the app store.
Even those should be deletable if it asks you to designate another app on your phone as the replacement for that core service. That replacement app should be API compatible with the data store of the phone itself.
I should be able to replace Apple Maps with Google Maps. Camera with any number of other Camera apps. Photos with any other local photo browsing app. Calendar with something like Fantastical. Weather with something like Yahoo Weather. etc. etc.
I'm on a 5S - was trying to do it via iTunes, but I may not have the newest version. Of course, that bug mentioned might be a problem. That aside, I can do it via phone. Thanks for the heads up.
Yes, i can't move the magazines crap to the 'garbage' folder. Also, i can't use amazon appstore or something like that. app store lock-in is the ultimate bloatware.
Only place i really don't see bloatware is on my hacked HP touchpad. My only tablet until a month ago was a 32gb HP touchpad that I got from $199.
On day one I installed android on it and helped with some the kernel tweaks. Now i'm just running cyanogenmod9 there.
It is a blissful experience. Full control over browser. dumb webdeveloper used 8px and limited zoom? no problem, zoom anyway. dumb webdeveloper put in 1024px wide paragraph? no problem, zoom and double tab.
Even the more hardcore lack of control: publisher limited a game for a specific device (fishlabs and sony experia deals for example). no problem, edit build.props, say you are that device and download.
...Then, last month work forced to expend lots and lots of time on a latest Ipad and a galaxy tab3.
The galaxy tab is awful. shitty in every aspect. Only upside is that it have a IR blaster. I love those things. It is also pretty light. But then, the screen is crappier than anything i've ever used. just awful to look at. Then the ugly custom samsung skin just make it WORSE. they use twice the space for browser tabs for example. it's just idiotic. worst tablet experience in using a browser that one can have. Just do yourself a favor and get a generic chinese one instead. Also, it has the exact same performance as my old touchpad with one cpu for web rendering and movies. samsung really crapped all over this one.
The latest ipad (apple sucks on that, can't even refer it to a number because i can't see any number on the device case or software... is that an ipad3?) has the most awesome screen. But it's heavy as hell and the corners cut your hands if you are trying to hold it to watch netflix in bed. If feels fast, and will probably be for anyone not slightly multitasking. Multitask is so crap that, I kid you not, changing tabs in the browser, or going back one page, results in a full redraw of the page, and sometimes a refresh of that page. For example, go to reddit or hackernews... scroll the page as you do when reading the index. Click on a link or open it in another tab. read that link. Press back or close the tab. The index page REFRESHES because it was probably out of memory or something. now you are at the index page, at the TOP! your scroll information is lost. And probably the items changed in the mean time. Totally shitty experience. Changing apps is even worse. Several apps 'restart' when you multitask. So, it's the perfect device if you ever use one app at a time and have a fully linear, one tab, browser usage pattern.
I'm just very glad i have the touchpad. Wonder if a nexus tablet is as good... probably not.
> Multitask [on iOS on iPad 4] is so crap that, I kid you not, changing tabs in the browser, or going back one page, results in a full redraw of the page, and sometimes a refresh of that page. [...] Changing apps is even worse. Several apps 'restart' when you multitask.
> Full control over browser. dumb webdeveloper used 8px and limited zoom? no problem, zoom anyway. dumb webdeveloper put in 1024px wide paragraph? no problem, zoom and double tab.
All possible on iOS. In Safari, use Reader or JavaScript bookmarklets. Or use one of the many third party browsers that have web dev tools.
> The latest ipad (apple sucks on that, can't even refer it to a number because i can't see any number on the device case or software... is that an ipad3?)
The latest 10" iPad can be referred to as iPad 4th Generation or iPad Late 2012.
Yep, on IOS7. i actually got the device a day before it was officially out. to be honest, i'm using it for all my liner-web-browsing despite all the shortcommings, because the screen is that awesome.
you were right on the newstand thing. moved to the garbage folder.
Now the multitasking, all i've described is on IOS7.
The page refresh happens when reading hacker news, so i'm not sure it's a memory issue. It's just bad user experience based on some dumb assumption at design time probably.
His point is that Samsung allows carriers to manipulate and install crapware on their phones. Apple does not.
Whether you think built-in iOS features are "crapware" is besides the point. Everything that ships with iOS is put there deliberately by Apple. Compare that to a Samsung device, where you will be getting stuff put there by Samsung (which you might agree with and want) plus random stuff put there by carriers (which you almost certainly don't want).
Why does it matter to me, the customer, whether the crap on my phone that I can't get rid of was placed there by Samsung or my Carrier or Apple? It's still crap that I can't get rid of.
It doesn't matter to you as a consumer. That's not the point.
It only matters if you are interested in discussing the amount of control carriers are able to exert over manufacturers, and whether companies are willing to compromise their design vision to satisfy carriers.
The entire point of the OP is to that Samsung has a problem with crapware that is not under their control. Regardless of whether you think Apple's pre-installed apps are "crap", it is entirely under their control to remove them — meaning they are in a more flexible position than Samsung.
Again, not relevant to you as a consumer. Only relevant if you wish to take part in this discussion.
> I'm just very glad i have the touchpad. Wonder if a nexus tablet is as good... probably not.
I prefer my Nexus 7 over my Touchpad. It's a bit faster and much lighter. Touchpad has mostly been relegated to the Touchstone charging dock since I got the Nexus 7 last year. Also, no app compatibilities that the Touchpad had at times (mostly due to the 1024x768 screen). Also, the Touchpad is far from perfect when running Android 4.2 or later.
I use my touchpad with the native DPI, which is not officially supported, and never had any problem with app compatibility due to the screen... but i don't use many apps.
mostly browsing.
Also, i'm on CM9. which is android 4.0 something. The last thing that didn't work and was holding me on CM7 is the camera. It's working now. CM10, android 4.2 is coming and the reports are good, but it is a work in progress. That said. There is ZERO features i want from 4.2. OTH, CM7 and 9 have a feature where i can limit which permissions the APP is allowed to use at runtime. and other niceties such as render effects, etc. noted, all available on all androids, but not exposed as options to the user. because users are dumb or something and can't have options.
Samsung's customers are the carriers. The carrier asks Samsung for specific features or changes in the firmware build for the phones they buy from Samsung. Samsung satisfies their customer by giving them what they want.
The carrier is who you should gripe for the firmware misfeatures which you don't like in their phones. But due to the monopoly situation, they don't have to care very much what their subscribers think.
Yes, I do. It's called "Share" where the only options are Facebook and Twitter.
Why can't Apple let iOS users use the underlying universal, open protocols directly to do file transfers (data export) without installing a hodgepodge of third party apps which barely do the job?
You could argue Pizza Hut is the only pizza that Galaxy users will ever need. You could also argue that posting to Facebook and Twitter are the only means of data export that iOS users will ever need. You could also make a fool of yourself by making such arguments.
Prepare to be educated. Yes a lot of it is a hack but on half the supported phones CM isn't too much different really. At least the whited00r releases are stable and have consistent feature support over obsolete handsets.
I fully agree. Whatever craps on iPhone, that's Apple's problem (if exist...). Exactly like that, whatever craps on Galaxy, that's Samsung's problem. (also if exist).
I just put in Italian Vodafone SIM into unlocked iPhone 4S with iOS 7 and got Vodafone bookmark in Safari, which is indeed deletable. Haven't noticed new contacts so far.
It's not the SIM, it's the carrier bundle. Each iPhone ships (and updates) some XML files for each operator that contain all specific operator settings. These vary from radio configurations to features lock/unlock; eg: you can tell the iPhone how to remote-check whether tethering is activated on the data plan, and change the UI accordingly; it can also contain a custom action box to show to the user when they try to activate the feature, and/or activate the feature itself directly, communicating to the operator network so that they can bill the user.
Carrier bundles also allow carriers to specify bookmarks to add to Safari, the idea being that users "might find useful" to have direct links to check their invoices or so. Such bookmarks are of course deletable.
Yep, it's the carrier bundle. I have an unlocked Canadian iPhone 5 and when I put a T-moble sim in when travelling to the USA, I get an entry in my stocks app for T-moble.
All those complaining about Vodaphone S3 coming with a little bookmark which can't be deleted, and still somehow don't find Apple's crapware which can't be uninstalled too bad, two things:
1) That was really only the stock browser. You can very easily install much better browsers and make them the default - Chrome, Firefox, Dolphin browser. Isn't it amazing and unheard of in Apple's world?
2) And, FYI, you can still delete those bookmarks by a small trick, without rooting. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1707047
There was also a trick to hide Newsstand in a folder without jailbreaking, before that became a feature. Doesn't matter to almost all users. I'd say the main factors for determining whether something is "crapware" are (a) the inherent odiousness of the software/bookmark/etc., (b) the difficulty of avoiding it, and (c) the level of technical justification for making it unremovable...
For Pizza Hut: (a) very odious, because it's pure marketing, irrelevant to the normal use of the device, and adds no useful functionality, since most users probably don't want a Pizza Hut bookmark, or could easily add one if they did; (b) requires switching completely to a new browser; (c) none, since a user is very unlikely to accidentally delete the bookmark and then be at a loss for how I get it back.
For Apple apps: (a) not much, since the apps are well designed and using Apple services with Apple's phone is a normal use case that applies to most users; (b) generally can be entirely avoided by moving to a folder, although it isn't always possible to replicate their functionality in third party apps, which is unfortunate (the previous inability to do so with Newsstand is essentially an implementation defect, since it was treated as a folder itself); (c) some, since although all apps ought to be redownloadable from the App Store, system apps are sort of a holdover from the original iPhone OS, and most new Apple apps have been put on the App Store, even things like iBooks.
Neither situation is great, but there's a big difference.
Is the Pizza Hut bookmark from Vodafone or Samsung? I have a Galaxy S 3 from T-Mobile and I don't have any bookmarks like that. It does have useless undeletable T-Mobile apps, but that's clearly T-Mobile's fault.
I guess so. I'm not sure they have as much leverage as Apple did with the iPhone. (Fun aside: Verizon was Apple's first choice for a launch carrier, but Verizon balked at the level of control they wanted over the device. Well, that and the cut of the monthly data plan fee.)
And then Verizon hemorrhaged customers until the CDMA iPhone 4 came out. I doubt people would be willing to switch carriers to get the Galaxy S5 (there is a lot of substitute goods in the Android world), nor does Samsung care to find out.
#2 is a link from September 2012. You mean this is still not fixed (as in >99% can update to a version that is fixed)?
Edit: "UPDATED 26 September: Samsung has told SlashGear that Galaxy S III users should ensure their phone is running the latest software as this resolves any issues:
'We would like to assure our customers that the recent security issue concerning the GALAXY S III
has already been resolved through a software update. We recommend all GALAXY S III customers to download the latest software update, which can be done quickly and easily via the Over-The-Air (OTA) service.'
Question: Is this OTA Update depending on whether providers let those updates through?
Regarding #2, that bug was fixed a year ago to the day, according to the very source you linked. I feel it's unfair to include what was clearly a mistake in the same category as deliberate malicious activity (#1 and the linked article)
Agreed, one is incompetence (remember, the stock Android browser had to be specifically patched by Samsung to enable the feature) and the others are simply not caring that much about customers. I don't feel it's unfair though.
1. Galaxy S 3 includes undeletable Pizza Hut bookmark http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1707047
2. Galaxy custom web browser allows random web sites to make links that wipe and reset the phone: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/117422-samsung-galaxy-s-3-re...