I wear neckties whenever the mood strikes me, and I'm a Java developer. I was well into clothing before I became a programmer. I like neckties for aesthetic reasons, and the same goes for suits and sport jackets. Yes, I've been harassed for this, but I just ignore the snide remarks. If you're a developer who has always been into elegance and grooming, then check out these blogs: http://englishcut.com/ and http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/.
I wonder if Bill Cattey (my first boss at MIT) still has his debugging tie. The idea was that software bugs hide when programmers are near, but you use the tie to fool them into thinking someone important is using the software. Then they come out.
Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose? Why are men still expected to wear fashion designed literally centuries ago?
I feel the same applies to suits, but people who (unlike me) actually wear suits assure me the designs change frequently in ways that are apparently non-obvious. All I know is those guys on 50s newsreels appear to be wearing the same thing the guys downtown are wearing today, and that's not true of basically any other popular item of clothing I can think of (hats? maybe?).
>Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose?
I don't like ties either... but I don't like them because they are uncomfortable. In the right place, they still look good, I just don't care to sacrifice myself to look that good.
Suits live on because they can make anyone look good and can make a lot of people look stunning. You do want to avoid the spate of incredibly ugly suits from around the 70s and 80s (which my father still wears, bleh) made from material that would look best upholstering a couch, but otherwise, they've lasted for reason.
That said, I have one suit and I've worn it once in 10 years. (To a series of 2001 computer science job fairs. Which is to say, "waste of money".) But I have to admit I do look relatively good in it.
I've never worn a tie to work, nor worked anywhere with any sort of dress code. Living in northern california, the whole concept seems a bit foreign to me. Bankers and doctors don't even wear ties. If you're wearing a suit and tie you're probably a used car salesman or 2nd rate real estate broker.
However, I've worn suits and ties to things like new year's eve parties and art gallery openings and I felt like it helped me pick up women, if only because I looked different than the hordes of shaggy guys with their ill-fitting hipster gear. Note to dudes: if you weigh more than 150 lbs you don't look good in a tight t-shirt and skinny pants.
Note to dudes: If you weigh less than 150 lbs and are not short, you probably have no idea what your pant waist size is. Most of you think it's 32 inches. That's wrong, and your pants look baggy.
I have needed to wear neckties and suits with varying regularity across various jobs that I have had (I've been a web developer of some kind for most of my professional career).
What gets me the most about suits and neckties is that even in countries such as mine, where the weather gets very warm for a large portion of the year, many people are still expected to wear neckties and suits year round. It reminds me of a saying that my mother (who grew up in the Philipines) is quite fond of, that I gather is paraphrased from an old song: "Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun". What she meant to convey when she used this saying was to comment on the propensity of western cultures to continue the use of their own cultural norms, behaviours and clothing styles even when the environment in the places they colonised and began living in made no sense for them to do so.
I also see footage of "salary men" in Japan walking to work in their suits and ties for example, and I think it's kind of sad that most everyone seems to have conformed to the western suit and tie style regardless of whether it makes sense to do so for their country's climate or cultural heritage.
For suits, I wear shirts with a variety of spread collars to match the formality of the suit. (Yes, suits vary in formality depending on colour, pattern, weave, and fineness of the fabric.) And with those shirts, I like the Windsor and the half-Windsor knots.
For sport jackets and button-down collared shirts, I tie the less formal four-in-hand. I have used the half-Windsor with Oxford-cloth button-downs (OCBDs) too.
I have also used the Pratt knott for OCBDs if the tie is too long for me. (I'm only 5'5" tall.)
Neckties always struck me as phallic symbols. A long article of clothing worn only by men that starts at the base of the head and points at the crotch.
I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."
I find constraining clothes discourage thought. They're kind of like noise. The constraint makes you notice them, and that takes some small amount of attention away from whatever you're thinking about.
Back when people used to dress more formally, everyone knew this, at least unconsciously. When someone needed to work late into the night on some hard problem, they'd take off their jacket and loosen their tie. This was so common that in movies it became a standard symbol for working hard.
I find constraining clothes are constraining because they are ill-fitting. Solution: do not buy ill-fitting garments. Most men do not know how to buy clothes that fit. For those men who do know, they were fortunate enough to learn from their well-dressed father or from books or from a proper tailor. Also, you have to care to know.
Ties aren't cut, so they can't be ill-cut. Nor are they the province of tailors, but of haberdashers.
Ties are intrinsically constraining. Unless you want to go the Reagan wattle route, a route which which a stylish, aristocratic, polysyllabic gentleman like yourself would surely eschew.
I was referring to the cut/selection of the shirt coupled with the tying of the tie. My mistake for not making that clear.
You are correct. Ties are intrinsically constraining. And so are belts. I find that if I want to be more thoughtful and creative, removing my belt does the trick. ;-) The people around me, especially the women, have gotten used to my trousers down at my ankles. :-D
Ties are manageable just by loosening them and not buttoning your top button right from the start. No one will notice or care. They'll just be surprised you're wearing a tie (for a coder) usually. I've coded a lot in ties. Sport coats are more uncomfortable.
A necktie serves no practical purpose. And forcing people to wear one who couldn't care less about fashion is simply a method of encouraging conformity (e.g., to get employees to do as they are told without question).
Actually, it does serve a practical purpose: to bring attention to one's face. Unfortunately, you don't see/get that. And that's OK because not everyone gets aesthetics, design, colour harmony, lines, etc. It's just like not everyone is cut out for programming, or not everyone is naturally good at dancing.
Also, there's a difference between fashion and style. Fashion is what's available; style is what you choose. The current fashion is t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers. I'm not fashionable--I don't wear that ensemble. Starting very young, I cultivated a different taste.
"...simply a method of encouraging conformity and respect for authority." Hmmm... Man, you must really hate ties... so much that you can't see from other perspectives. This kind of thinking reminds me of hatred towards other races, people of a different sexual orientation, etc.
I'm all for freedom. "Freedom" is such a powerful word. Hey, you can/may wear whatever you want. I'm going to go to work in suits, sport jackets, pressed trousers, etc. I love the freedom of choice, and I hope others feel the same way. Here's to freedom!
I wear sport coats with jeans, so eguanlao would probably fight me, but at least I know the difference between a sport coat and a suit coat, so we'd be boxing instead of using katanas. p.s. styleforum represent.
Neither do the collars on polo shirts, or the patterns (or dye, for that matter) on the t-shirt you're probably wearing. If all we wanted was practicality, everyone would be wearing un-dyed ponchos - but we're not.
Some people like ties - they see creativity and individuality in the patterns, the material, the composition, the knot, and the ensemble. Just like other people see the same things in the patterns and designs on their t-shirts.
All of fashion serves no practical purpose - no need to single out people who wear one particular implementation of this.
Agreed, 100%. However, we enjoy wearing plenty of things which have no practical purpose; and people who wish to wear neckties should be able to wear them without being weighted down by the IBM corporate-machine stereotype. One may be a hacker without wearing jeans, sneakers, and a BSDemon tee; one may even be a hacker while dressed to the nines.
As for neckties being "sexist" -- have you asked a woman how she feels about high heels?
The men who frequent these fora are not those fashionistas you are probably thinking of. They range from developers to lawyers to university professors, and we all have one thing in common: a love for fine, gentlemen's clothing. I'm talking about bespoke tailoring, handcrafted shoes, seven-fold ties, etc. Yes, old-school tailors still exist--visit my tailor's Web site if you're one of the very few here who's interested in learning more: http://paulchangcustomtailors.com/.
