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Next, we'll see the return of the milk man and we'll almost be in time for living just like exactly a century ago. These are not fresh, new ideas.

Most good ideas have precedents. The iPad was not the first tablet by a long shot. Nor was Dropbox the first service to offer syncing and backup. The difference, as here, was in subtle implementation details. But, as here, a small difference in implementation multiplied by a basic human need = great value to users.


On a related note, many of the ground-breaking Kickstarter successes were not nearly brand-new ideas. Fancy iPhone dock, smart watch, network storage and synching, these have all been done dozens of times before.

The one difference is "subtle implementation details."

Another is very slick marketing spin. The people who make the big bucks are not those who invent a new thing. It is those who present it in the right light, as a total seamless solution that solves your problem in an exciting way.


Thanks for the comment, pg.

Yes, most good ideas have precedents. I think the value of iPads and Dropbox can be assessed with qualitative and quantitative analysis in meaningful ways. With Prim, however, the subtle details belie a more problematic relationships with users and workers.

Back of the envelope calculations (sorta):

Let's say I have 4 loads of laundry per week--colors, whites, towels, sheets & blanket/comforter. A low-end top-loading washing machine and dryer cost $400 each, new. So, in 12 weeks Prim has cost me more than buying a washing machine already. Average national price from a quick search at the EPA puts water cost at $2/1000 gallons; power is about $0.10/kWh. The cost-per-load at home runs users about $0.76, or $160/yr.

Given that a washer and dryer might run me around $800 (excluding tax) for low-end options, we're looking at around 525 loads to recoup the machine cost, or 131 weeks of laundry (2.5 yrs). In those 131 weeks, we've recouped the machine expense and spent an additional $400 in laundry costs. So, we're $1200 invested into doing our own laundry at home.

Average pricing at laundromats indicate that doing 4 loads will cost me less than the price of an additional load with Prim, or about the price of that additional load when including gas to get to the laundromat if I'm driving myself (which adds maybe $1-2 per week). In those 131 weeks, we're out about $1,965 (using the Prim extra load cost as our expected laundromat cost for 4 loads per week).

Cost with Prim over those 131 weeks? $9,170. $7,970 more than doing laundry at home with a machine the user owns and can take anywhere that allows them their own machine. Or $7,205 more than relying on a laundromat if one doesn't have such a residence.

I can think of a lot of things a user can do with $7-8K that can have a qualitative impact on each user's life. That's no small chunk of change. As another commenter remarked, Prim is betting entirely on users spending (hopefully) disposable income in a way that is of dubious personal and social utility.

Outsourcing such mundane chores for the sake of profit exacts an unbalanced price--users are losing a significant amount of money for which they receive no quantifiable return, and those employed to do their chores are left with mundane work that (hopefully) provides a subsistent standard of living. It is the commodification of chores by questionable assignment of non-deterministic values for which users and workers alike are paying an unreasonably high price.

I'd be very interested in understanding the metrics by which 'great value to users' is assessed and determined by YC, as I recognize this is merely a cash assessment. Moreover, I'd be really interested in determinations of value that incorporate some notion of improving society and people's lives in a qualitative way that isn't solely reliant upon subjective measurements of convenience and relying on statements about how much productivity is lost when doing laundry--which is highly dependent upon a dubious and dismissible premise that laundry is done during typical productive/working hours.

Obviously, if users want to throw $7-8K away on having someone do their laundry for them, and someone stands up to take that money, they're going to do it. But assigning increased convenience by offloading a mundane chore onto another human, who is getting far less out of the deal, as 'great value to the user' feels very wrong.

Moreover, the business costs seem to far outweigh the revenue potential. Assuming that a Prim employee is making minimum wage, it will take about 4 users with 4 loads of laundry per week to pay his/her salary. Or, if it's users who only need a load per week, that's about 12 single-load pickups. I presume Prim covers vehicle/gas costs to make these pickups, or are Prim employees showing up to people's residences (and, gasp, possibly having a key!) with their own vehicles, thus forcing employees to shoulder the transportation costs? If, as a user, I was having Prim do my laundry, the revenue of my 4 loads per week for 2.5 years would only cover about 28 weeks of salary at minimum wage. To stick around for the 2.5 years I need them compared to doing it myself, the employee costs is going to be just shy of $40K, and that doesn't include all the other business expenses. Just to pay one employee, Prim needs about 540 users doing 4 loads per week for 2.5 years, and I'm pretty sure that person is going to be unable to make all the pickups, much less complete all that laundry. Are there really that many people out there who want to overpay a company to complete a chore they can do in their free, non-productive time, to make Prim a viable business?

Disclaimer1: I have laundry running in the background while I'm writing comments on HN. Disclaimer2: I am idealistic. Disclaimer3: You're smarter than I am, undoubtedly know all of this, and are privy to information I am not. Thanks if you read this far. :)


I'm hoping for a doctor that makes house calls.


Try Memd.me - doctor visit over video conf.


I had to go to the doctor recently. Among the 'tests' he did was to check different parts of my chest with a stethoscope (and noted that there was a mild wheeze). Another was gently pressing particular points on my throat and asked me if it hurt. He also checked how the ears, nose and throat looked by using a bright light pointed towards them. Overall he checked for a variety of things and some of them involved physical contact.

I think it would have been hard for him to do this over a video call or have the same confidence in his diagnosis if he were not able to do these 'tests' even if his diagnosis were the same.

I myself would find it hard to feel comfortable with diagnosis that I receive over a video session. In fact unless the whole pipeline for transmitting sound from one end to the other is very good, the doctor might miss some vital clues. I say this because I once saw him mention a faint whistling sound in my wife's breathing from a few feet away (which we had not noticed until he pointed it out to us). How could he notice something small like that over a video call? How could a patient be confident that the doctors are not missing something like that over the call?

I wouldn't mind receiving consultation regarding legal, financial or technical (Programming?) matters over a video call but I don't see being comfortable receiving medical consultation through a video call.

[Edit: replied to wrong post earlier, deleted that and pasted here]


That would not be terrible.


This already exists - http://www.oberweis.com/web/default.asp

My parents (suburban middle class family) still use the service to this day.

How do they justify it? The milk is better quality then anything that's mass produced in the grocery store (and my parents still go to the grocery store regularly) and doesn't contain all of the growth hormones. I would argue it is very niche though.


Touché. I should have googled beforehand.

Of course, a $3.00 delivery fee hardly seems extravagant compared to Prim charging ~33x the average cost of completing a load of laundry in one's home.

Any reason they don't just buy organic milk?


No one is going to argue that this is cheaper than doing your laundry at home. The simple fact is: people pay a premium for convenience. You should be comparing Prim's pricing with other laundry delivery services not the cost of doing laundry at home. Many laundromats deliver for free and charge between $1-1.25 per pound. If you figure that 20 lbs of laundry fits into a standard laundry bag, then Prim's per pound rate is $1.25; on par with many laundromats offering "free" delivery and pick up. Now, assuming you send your laundry out already, and Prim is offering a superior service (better customer service, an easy to manage online UI, etc) than other laundromats, selecting them as your provider is a no brainer.

*Disclaimer: I've been working on the same model as Prim for a few months and will be launching in a major city in the next few months. The economics are there, even on a small scale. Scaling up is where things get really interesting.


The milk man was a great idea during time where fewer people had cars, and milk wasn't so well pasteurized that a single gallon can last a month without going bad.


When I read the headline I thought... is "Prim" the name of a robot?

If it's not a laundry robot, I'm horribly unimpressed.


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