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Help wanted: Seasoned wikipedia editors to write a proper article about Fravia (wikipedia.org)
43 points by pygy on May 8, 2009 | hide | past | web | favorite | 15 comments

A mourning friend of Fravia, new to Wikipedia, is trying to write an article about him, but his lack of experience triggered the heavy hand of admins, and the article is currently a semi-protected minimal stub. I didn't know Fravia until yesterday, so I'm in a bad position to help him personaly, besides trying to explain him the local, arid rules, but it's a bit hard to explain that to a man in sorrow. The stub is here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravia, and the WIP article here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fravia/WIP

On a related note, there seems to be little reliable information (in the Wikipedia meaning of reliable) about Fravia. He was more of an underground hero.

Having an eulogy or a tribute published in a respected publication may help sourcing the article. I know it's silly to have an eulogy written only for that purpose, but Wikipedia has become the default knowledge repository, and it would be a shame not to have an article about him. If (the friend of) a high profile hacker who knew or was influenced by Fravia read this, it would be nice if he could do something about it.

I took down the semi-protected stub. I've been trying to assist in writing this article for the past few days. Needless to say, there are a few admins that would rather see us not succeed (or so it seems).

Fravia knew RMS personally. Daniel at Wikipedia suggested to contact him for writing a tribute.

Is there someone here who knows RMS?

I sent him some information on the matter.

Thank you!

No problem. Richard has sent the request for help on to some people who knew Fravia better than he did.

If he ever wants to post here he can have his proper username...

> but it's a bit hard to explain that to a man in sorrow.

Wait until he's done mourning. Then write the article. It's a whole lot harder to write well when you're grieving.

A little suggestions: the people who knew him personaly could start putting factual information that they have easier access to: his real name, exact birth and death date, where he was born, where he studied, where he lived, someone famous in his family.

Other facts that would help: when his pages were published for the first time, who helped with hosting, when he decided to change cracking content for searching stuff, etc.

He gave some talks at conferences and knew some famous people. Who, when, where? The family can assist with references. Don't forget to keep searching Google: people that knew him could be writing right now something that could be accepted as a reference.

And don't be confrontational with wikipedists! They seem to be taking a constructive approach.

Good luck, but I think it will be very difficult. I added the bit about DVD Jon a few days ago, but was unable to find anything else even remotely resembling a reliable source. If a passing reference to Fravia on DVD Jon's blog is the best source we have, then the article is in trouble.

Just a suggestion: it's a really bad idea to justify arguments on Wikipedia by saying you're trying to memorialize someone.


Also, while Fravia's own site is a reliable source for raw facts about Fravia, it's not a reliable source that establishes his notability. Nor is there any such thing as a "Google Test" for notability (that argument gets tried and fails in AfD's every day), nor is the "number of people trying to edit the page" a reliable indicator of notability.

Zorbid talking here, actually :-).

I know all of that, and, for the best of me, I try to play by the rules, and to give proper arguments for my views.

Here's a source (german): http://events.ccc.de/2009/05/06/sigint-2009-fravia/

Somewhat skinny on details, but it's a start and mentions several other potential sources.

Google translation: http://bit.ly/qNv0K

I have neither the time nor inclination to aid in creating the Wikipedia page, but am very interested in seeing it done well.


Thanks a lot. I expanded the article according to the post you provided.

Just wanted to say thanks for your effort, as a +Fravia semi-fan

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