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Most of those hundreds of thousands of youngsters would not be purchasing those products, anyway. Most just don't have the money.

As I look at it, most piracy is free publicity. Notice how movie receipts haven't gone down as piracy has ramped up?

Sure, CDs have sold less, but that's a bit different beast.




> Most of those hundreds of thousands of youngsters would not be purchasing those products, anyway. Most just don't have the money.

Is that an excuse to allow them to pirate stuff. How is a culture of "well just pay for what you can afford and take the rest for free" allowable?

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No, not an excuse to allow them to pirate stuff. The fact is, they are pirating stuff. That is not going to go away. It's just observing a fact.

Criminalizing a whole generation is more morally wrong, to me, than bemoaning lost profits that are not even really lost (movie receipts are way up, for instance).

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Oh yeh fair point. Although I would like to think I didnt mean to appear criminalize the generation. Mostly it is an education problem coupled with the huge availabilty of the material.

That needs to be worked on too.

EDIT: according to the BBC reports last week Cinema attendance is at a record low so I think the data is not 100% cut and dried on your example. Also not convinced piracy would impact on cinema too much - based on the face that Cinema offers an extra experience that DVD's / Pirated copies dont.

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I'm glad the material is available. If only the music, movie and other industries didn't spend so much time fighting it, and instead learned to profit from it.

It might be fairly parochial, but I only know about the US -- but you are right, per capita cinema attendance has been declining since 1930, well before BitTorrent was on the scene, to say the least.

(Reference: http://org.elon.edu/ipe/pautz2.pdf )

Why? More entertainment options as time went by. We are on the tail end of a trend that's been going on for a long, long time.

But in the US, at least, cinema attendance is way up recently, as well as box office receipts:

http://www.contentagenda.com/articleXml/LN953155369.html

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> I'm glad the material is available. If only the music, movie and other industries didn't spend so much time fighting it, and instead learned to profit from it.

Spotify. Last.fm. Itunes. All legit ways to get the exact same music :) (at various cose).

Movies: well yeh still a bit laggy there. But things are improving. Though frankly I am not one to blame the industry for trying to get rid of the pirates (even if it is fruitless) before opening up their catalogues.

IMO these are different issues that quickly get confused by people :)

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If you allow young people to have the content free when they have no money then they will like it enough to pay for it when they do.

This is the principle of "student" edition software.

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"If you allow young people to have the content free when they have no money then they will like it enough to pay for it when they do."

Has this been demonstrated empirically, in the case of music and video? I see this argued both ways, and I don't know which is true.

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not really. Student Editions are usually cheaper to encourage students to purchase the product. Thse that are free handouts are, yes, to encourage later sales. But I dont think you can draw a comparison. A piece of software is usually adaptable and reusable in the future. A lot of film and music is just dropped (tastes change etc.).

I doubt the number of youngsters who pay for music once they have the means is huge. Would you pay for the Spice Girls song you downloaded 4 or 5 years ago and havent listened to for the last 2 yrs. No, probably not - but you might have had 2-3yrs enjoyment out of it... where do you draw the line?

I dont see any justification for downloading music you cant afford when there are free sites to listen to it on.... it's not as if that lack of funds is depriving said person of the ability ot hear and enjoy the song. It perhaps does inhibit how and in what context they can listen to the song (i.e. no ipods etc.).

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I don't see a lot (yes small ad differences maybe) of difference between someone watching a youtube clip of their favourite song or downloading it.

In any case, there is no cost to the copyright owner if someone who can't afford it pirates it. There is at least a potential benefit.

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Well i don't see how WE should need any excuses.

I've failed to be proven guilty of anything. Who am i depriving of something when i download stuff ?

The society is guilty for letting the record industry, in its hunger for expansion and money, assimilate downloading with stealing.

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I am annoyed that I cant downvote the above, so Ill just point out that I would.

That's a very strange and illogical attitude IMO.

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While I might not completely agree with Raphael_Amiard he does raise the interesting point that the burden must be on the record industry to prove that they incur a cost (including an opportunity cost) if piracy is legal.

Having said that, I think both of us need to be aware of identity bias here. I don't necessarily support TPB but I do have strong views on liberty and on those who exploit the creative work of others. Similarly, I get the feeling that you have an emotional distate for TPB (based on their attitude) and identify yourself as belonging to the record industry so take the attacks personally.

I think I should make it clear that everyone here who opposes the "record industry" isn't talking about the people who do creative work, the engineers etc. but rather the people who previously had a monopoly on distribution and used this to exploit the creators and sound engineers. These people have lost their monopoly and can now be replaced by technology and so have taken to attacking the new competition. This doesn't just include TPB. It's like Kodak suing digital camera companies because the new medium allows reprints.

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