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If you don't trust the experimental results, exactly what process are you proposing?

More experiments? Will you trust those?

Your comments beg the question. The "experimental results" you reference are meaningless if they are not properly disclosed and utilized.

In fact, seems to me that an investigation is in order as to how these supposedly stringent regulatory processes gave us pesticides that were purportedly safe for bees and other beneficial insects, while we now know that they are clearly lethal to bees. They specifically stated that their chemicals do not do something that they clearly do, and that something is ecologically and agriculturally devastating. I find it very difficult to believe that this was completely unknown prior to approval. If you are telling me that you believe it was unknown after utilizing the best processes we have to test and model, then I would say that we clearly need to ban these pesticides and approve nothing else until we are better at determining outcomes.

Beyond that, what I would trust is a regulatory process that does not involve revolving doors between government bureaucrats on the regulatory side and industry. That and a true democracy wherein politicians are not bought by the highest bidder. Those are just starting points.

So, no, I would not trust more experiments performed by the same people, processes, and "oversight" that brought us the last round. You would?

What's the practical alternative, then?

Not the ideal alternative, which we all agree would be nice, but what is something that might actually work?

I'm not sure that I understand your line of questioning. Are you agreeing that there seems to be foul play here? Or are you saying that everyone is honest, but our systems are woefully insufficient? Or both?

Because either would be unacceptable in my view. Yet your point seems to be that it's the best we have, so we should make do. In fact, if you agree that the system as-is is very much less than ideal, then it seems that you would join me in calling for remedy, perhaps using the starting points I've already identified as a basis.

Instead the very nature of your questioning seems to suggest that people who call attention to the problem are somehow in the wrong because they don't have a set of concrete legislation for regulatory change at the ready. It's a bit of a red herring, wherein you agree with me on principle, but rather than demanding answers or solutions from those who are at fault, you instead immediately turn to me and demand solutions, essentially letting those responsible off the hook.


What starting points have you identified for a practical solution?


To simplify what I had here before (and make it hopefully less argumenative):

What system would be verifiable and trustworthy? How would that differ from what we have now?

I never claimed to offer a specific, "practical" solution and my last comment pointed out the oddness of you asking me for one vs asking those responsible.

And I'm still not sure why you continue to make that the issue. It's not so much argumentative as it is odd.

In any event, what I did point out are some of the underlying issues that make the current system corruptable (i.e. untrustworthy). I don't really feel like retyping that, so if you're earnestly interested, perhaps you can check my ancestor comment on this thread.

As far as devising "practical" solutions, surely identifying and addressing those core issues might be a starting place.

EDIT: But perhaps the real question is: what exactly is your point?

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