Hacker Newsnew | comments | show | ask | jobs | submitlogin

True, although it's more confusing than this. We didn't make an explicit decision for Bamboo, and thus the big problem — docs fell out of date, at a minimum.

For Cedar, we did make an explicit decision. People on the leading edge of web development were running concurrent backends and long-running requests. Our experimental support for Node.js in 2010 was a big driver here, but also people who wanted to use concurrency in Ruby, like Ilya Grigorick's Goliath and Rails becoming threadsafe. These folks complained that the single-request-per-backend algorithm was actually in their way.

This plus horizontal scaling / reliability demands caused us to make an explicit product decision for Cedar.




> true

that makes sense, i was wondering how intelligent routing was implemented in the first place.

-----


Oh, got it. How's this:

In the early days, Heroku only had a single routing node that sat out front. So it wasn't a distributed systems problem at that point. You could argue that Heroku circa 2009 was more of a prototype or a toy than a scalable piece of infrastructure. You couldn't run background workers, or large databases. We weren't even charging money yet.

Implementing a single global queue in a single node is trivial. In fact, this is what Unicorn (and other concurrent backends) do: put a queue within a single node, in this case a dyno. That's how we implemented it in the Heroku router (written in Erlang).

Later on, we scaled out to a few nodes, which meant a few queues. This was close enough to a single queue that it didn't matter much in terms of customer impact.

In late 2010 and early 2011 our growth started to really take off, and that's when we scaled out our router nodes to far more than a handful. And that's when the global queue effectively ceased to exist, even though we hadn't changed a line of code in the router.

The problem with this, of course, is that we didn't give it much attention because we had just launched a new product which made the explicit choice to leave out global queueing. It's this failure to continue full stewardship of our existing product that's the mistake that really hurt customers.

So to answer your question, there was never some crazy-awesome implementation of a distributed global queue that we got rid of. It was a single node's queue, a page of code in Erlang which is not too different from the code that you'll find in Unicorn, Puma, GUnicorn, Jetty, etc.

-----


> So to answer your question, there was never some crazy-awesome implementation of a distributed global queue that we got rid of.

This sentence is really good, and I would humbly suggest you consider hammering it home even more than you have.

I gathered early on that there were inherent scaling issues with the initial router (which makes sense intuitively if you think about Heroku's architecture for more than 10 seconds), but I feel like most of the articles I've seen the past few weeks have this "Heroku took away our shiny toys because they could!" vibe. (Alternative ending: "Heroku took away our shiny toys to expand their market to nodeJS!")

Anyway, that's my take.

-----


> So to answer your question, there was never some crazy-awesome implementation of a distributed global queue that we got rid of.

So it was an oversimplified system that worked great but wasn't scalable and was at some point going to completely fall over under increasing load.

IMExp, this is not a wrong thing to build initially and it's not wrong to replace it either. But the replacement is going to have a hard time being as simple or predictable. :-)

-----


Not a wrong thing to build initially, but perhaps a wrong thing to advertise a feature based on, unless you have a plan for how to continue to deliver that feature as you scale up.

-----


Everybody who scales rapidly has some growing pains, so I'm sympathetic. But I agree that by advertising that as a feature they're specifically asking customers to outsource this hard problem to them.

-----




Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Y Combinator | Apply | Contact

Search: