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Hang on, what? Refusing to advertise knives which are clearly intended to be used as weapons is 'evil' now is it?



Not sure if you're just trolling, but I'll bite. The government has regulations in place on dangerous weapons, which you are ostensibly free, through the democratic process, to change if they are not to your liking.

Google has decided that legal/illegal is not a sufficient criteria, and made up their own rules about how you can use their service, but then only applied those rules to smaller clients. That is the evil part.

This wouldn't feel so uncomfortable if google wasn't such a big player in the online advertising world.

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I agree that it would be better if Google applied the same rules to other vendors selling similar knives. They are entirely free to decide how you can use their service, there's nothing evil about that.

Edit: To clarify, I've used knives professionally (diving instructor) and recreationally (kite surfer), but I fail to see the non-weapon use for a knife that is small (and therefore concealable) and also opens quickly. Not to mention the window-smashing attachment. [1]

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&lis...!

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"Not to mention the window-smashing attachment"

That can be handy when trying to rescue someone, or so my volunteer firefighter friends tell me. Claiming that such a feature has no legitimate purpose is like claiming that a crowbar has no legitimate purpose.

"I fail to see the non-weapon use for a knife that is small (and therefore concealable) and also opens quickly"

Small knives are easy to carry around, that should be obvious. As for opening quickly, that is just a convenience -- why should convenience be frowned upon? Would you be less concerned if these were fixed blade knives?

Sure, knives and crowbars are weapons when you apply them to human beings. People have been murdered with screwdrivers (is a small screwdriver a bad thing?). On the other hand, the NATO e-tool, designed for use by soldiers at war, is often used for gardening because it is convenient -- it can be used as an ax, it can be used as a shovel, it folds up for easy storage, etc.

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>I fail to see the non-weapon use for a knife that is small (and therefore concealable) and also opens quickly

I am an Eagle scout. Being able to quickly pull a knife out and open it one handed, due to it being assisted opening and small enough to clip into my pocket, has been beneficial more time than I can count.

I have had a knife in my pocket nearly every day since high school. I have used it thousands of times in that time period. I never once used it as a weapon.

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Window smashing is one of the MOST justifiable things to have on a tool.

I keep glassbreakers and seatbelt cutters in my car with easy access, and also have tools which can break glass. I've been to two (civilian) vehicle accidents where that was incredibly useful -- being able to break the glass to access a person in an upside-down or sideways car from the outside. I had a glassbreaker for one, and the other I had to use a crowbar, which kind of sucked. I don't really see a "weapon" use of a glass breaker, particularly if you already have a knife or firearm to hand.

I also used a kershaw AO knife all the time to cut things while holding something else -- for instance, cutting open dressings while holding pressure, since someone had taken my shears. Or opening a cardboard box while holding it.

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It's also interesting that there is no effective difference between a switchblade and these "spring assisted" knives. Yes, the mechanism is different. But in both cases, you push a button, and the blade pops out rapidly.

The very existence of these knives is clearly to circumvent existing laws regarding switchblades.

This is entirely separate from the big-guys vs little-guys argument being made against Google.

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"The very existence of these knives is clearly to circumvent existing laws regarding switchblades."

Those laws should be circumvented; they are as stupid as laws prohibiting Bowie knives.

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I carry a pocket knife every day; some of mine are assisted open, others are not. I have a small preference towards assisted open ones because they are easier to operate one handed, though I can open a simple folder with a really loose hinge almost as fast with a flick of the wrist.

They're just more convenient.

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> clearly intended to be used as weapons

Knives are horrible, horrible weapons.

These are clearly NOT intended to be used as weapons, as they are normal, everyday lock-back knives. Knives intended to be weapons, such as those modeled after the Krambit design, are fairly rare in public, especially among people who use knives (their shape and features make them much less useful). Your outrage is misplaced - we are not having a weapon talk.

Google not allowing ads for something that is legal is bullshit. Them not allowing ads for some people, but allowing them for others, over the same product, is evil.

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As the OP explains, the knives in question are not illegal and not in violation of Google's policies. Additionally, other vendors selling the same items are not being banned.

I think the "evil" part relates to discriminating against certain vendors instead of treating all vendors equally and consistently.

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As the OP explains, the knives in question are not illegal and not in violation of Google's policies

They ARE in a clear violation of Google's policy which prohibits selling knives as weapons. They seem to have some confusion about the word of the ban, but as I linked elsewhere - http://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/answer/176077?hl=en

This is not at all unclear. The examples of banned knives are not the exhaustive set.

And for what it's worth, assisted opening knives are only legal by the most marginal of gray areas (that the "button" is laughably a part of the blade rather than the side handle).

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I disagree; the policy is unclear.

It mentions several categories of knives that are legally restricted in many jurisdictions. It then goes on to say that the promotion of swords and kitchen knives is allowed. Based on the OP's claims, it appears that utility pocket knives are allowed as long as they don't have assisted opening.

It's also not clear from this page that Google has a problem with the use of adwords to sell products not banned from advertising in a store that also sells products Google refuses to advertise.

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The policy is completely clear: Knives that could best be described as weapons are not allowed. People do buy knives as weapons, but it's pretty rare for people to buy swords as weapons (instead they're decorative), so that difference is completely explainable.

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Knives that could best be described as weapons are not allowed.

This is completely ambiguous. There are knives marketed as having been designed with input from various figures in the martial arts world or using terms like "tactical"; it's probably reasonably to say that those are designed, or at least marketed as weapons. Kitchen knives obviously aren't intended as weapons. Every other non-decorative knife on the market falls somewhere between those two points.

Google has evidently decided that assisted opening == weapon, but does not say so on its policy page. This decision is not consistent with the marketing of most assisted opening knives, nor with the opinions of knife enthusiasts. Of course, there are probably very few objective criteria one could use to determine if a pocket-size folding knife is intended to be a weapon.

I also reiterate that it is not clear from the page that selling an item banned from advertising (an assisted opening knife) on the same website as an item advertised on adwords that is allowed to be advertised on adwords (some other kind of knife that Google doesn't consider a weapon) is against the rules. Indeed, the main point of the complaint appears to be that larger adwords customers like Amazon and Walmart are doing exactly that.

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I'm sure that a certain subset of people do buy knives as weapons, but I'd be surprised if it was even on the radar of total knife ownership reasons. Most buy knives for display or utility (dive, general utility, bolo/machete, etc.).

Every one of them could be used to kill someone, just like a crowbar.

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Knives are among the oldest and most versatile tools known to man. I have, on occasion, used my pocket knife as a gardening tool, screwdriver, box cutter, prying tool, wire stripper, wire cutter, torque wrench, and hammer. It is not the best tool for any of the above, but sometimes you just lack the time needed to go back to your garage and get your toolbox.

Nothing about "assisted opening knives" makes them "clearly intended to be used as weapons." It is a convenience, just like my pocket knife conveniently locks open. Why should a tool not be convenient?

Finally, the important distinction here is that Google is not refusing to advertise these knives, they are only refusing to allow this one, small company to advertise those knives. That is a key detail -- Google has no problem with the knives when Amazon is selling them.

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Actually it appears as though Google demanded that they stop selling those knives altogether, not just stop advertising them through AdWords.

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Its kind of different though isn't it. Amazon is a very big site and its is pretty unlikely that you would end up at a page that has these knives on it from any of amazons other ads. This is a highly focused website and it is very likely that you will end up on a page with these types of knifes from every single ad that they have.

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> knives which are clearly intended to be used as weapons

That seems a bit melodramatic. I have one that I keep around for general use around the home. Good for opening boxes, cutting twine/zipties, etc. It's very nice since I can put it in my pocket (unlike a paring knife) and can open it with one hand (unlike a pocket knife). It is a just plain practical design.

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They aren't doing that though. They are refusing to advertise ads of a smaller company meanwhile allowing ads of large companies that sell the same (or similar) product that caused the smaller company to be banned.

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Fold out knife is intended as a weapon? Don't tell the other fisherman. They may get scared.

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No one using a knife as a tool is going to buy an assisted opening knife. Aside from usage reliability considerations, having it trigger unintentionally (again, a tool they would handle constantly) would be a major concern.

This is product sold only to teenage boys desperately seeking that high of invincibility.

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> No one using a knife as a tool is going to buy an assisted opening knife.

Bullshit. I did.

> having it trigger unintentionally

There is no way in hell. Do you even know what assisted opening knifes are? They are not switchblades.

> This is product sold only to teenage boys desperately seeking that high of invincibility.

They are sold to anybody that wants to have a knife that is safe but can be opened with one hand. In other words, damn near everybody who has a use for a non-kitchen knife.

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Bullshit. I did.

I see in your other post you claimed that, then listing exactly the use that people resort to a box cutter for (cutting twine, opening boxes, etc, safely opened and closed with one hand, etc).

Do you even know what assisted opening knifes are? They are not switchblades.

Instead of having a button on the side of the knife that causes it to trigger open via spring actuation, it has a trigger lever on the blade back that causes it to trigger open via spring actuation, almost certainly being designed specifically to get around overly specific anti-switchblade laws. They are legal only by a trivial technicality of switchblade laws.

You know there's a video directly in the linked blog posting. And anyone not lying to themselves can clearly see that the differences are laughable.

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> then listing exactly the use that people resort to a box cutter for

I also have a box-cutter (which by the way, thanks to its lower mass and design, can be opened just as quickly with one hand, despite lacking a spring assist...) Sometimes I use one, other times I use the other. Do you have a problem with that?

> Instead of having a button on the side of the knife that causes it to trigger open via spring actuation, it has a trigger lever on the blade back that causes it to trigger open via spring actuation

So I take it you have never actually used one...

Regardless, they come in many forms. Mine has a thumb-bar on the blade. There is absolutely no accidental opening of the knife, it requires a non-trivial amount of pressure to push past the point where the spring takes over and until that point, the spring works against you. It is as safe as any knife can be and is, quite clearly, a knife designed to be more convenient than regular pocket knives.

Besides your made up bullshit about them being unsafe, why would anyone in the market for a cheap folding knife not buy one that had a spring assist? It is 100% a matter of practicality.

This is not my knife, though mine is of the same form: http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-SWATMB-Assisted-Opening/d... (notice the "tools and home improvement" section...) Not a high quality knife by any means, but it is incredibly practical and useful.

Believe it or not, not all knife owners are members of the Sharks or the Jets...

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There is absolutely no accidental opening of the knife

Knife has an edge actuator that, when pushed (by your thumb, the table you're leaning against...you know, anything that pushes on it), causes it to kinetically open. I think most of the people around here are fairly intelligent and can see countless accidental deployments scenarios, notwithstanding your endless cries of "bullshit!".

notice the "tools and home improvement" section...

Knife is by Smith & Wesson and is called a SWAT knife. Totally a "tool and home improvement" section. At this point I think you must be just having a laugh.

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> Knife has an edge actuator that, when pushed (by your thumb, the table you're leaning against...you know, anything that pushes on it), causes it to kinetically open. I think most of the people around here are fairly intelligent and can see countless accidental deployments scenarios, notwithstanding your endless cries of "bullshit!".

You have clearly never used one of these knives, you are just pulling shit out of your ass. I can imagine absolutely no scenario in which you might accidentally open one on a table, let alone with your thumb. It requires very deliberate action, with enough force to leave an indent on your thumb (seriously, if you accidentally do that you have nerve damage and should see a physician), and only becomes "kinetic" (barely, it clicks into place with enough force to lock itself) when it is already past 90 degrees open. If you are somehow accidentally doing this with a table edge (how???) your greatest danger is the fact that this knife is probably going to fall onto your foot. How do you survive in modern kitchens if you are so hopelessly oblivious?

> Knife is by Smith & Wesson and is called a SWAT knife. Totally a "tool and home improvement" section. At this point I think you must be just having a laugh.

Who cares what it is called, or who makes it? Seriously, how does that effect the functionality of the knife AT ALL? What are you going to do next, complain that it is black?

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I suggest you try posting minus variations of "bullshit" or "shit". It might be tough, but it will be worth it in the end.

You have clearly never used one of these knives

You refute me by making claims directly contrary to the video in the story being discussed. You know, the company making the product being discussed, where a protruding trigger is, with obviously little force via an index finger, actuated causing the blade to immediately swing 180 degrees at a high rate of speed.

But your personal experience is fascinating nonetheless, however completely irrelevant.

* If you are somehow accidentally doing this with a table edge*

The context of my comment on it is that people who actually use knives as tools don't use knives made for 14 year old boys, emblazoned with names like "SWAT" by gun makers. I stand by that.

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> product being discussed, where a protruding trigger is, with obviously little force via an index finger, actuated causing the blade to immediately swing 180 degrees at a high rate of speed.

You were not discussing that. You were making claims about the broader category of knives saying: "No one using a knife as a tool is going to buy an assisted opening knife" (In response to someone who provided a concrete example of where such a knife may be used even!) If you are vilifying everyone that owns that general category of knife, then my experiences with another knife in that category could not be more relevant.

> The context of my comment on it is that people who actually use knives as tools don't use knives made for 14 year old boys, emblazoned with names like "SWAT" by gun makers. I stand by that.

You'll be glad to know then that mine is not. However you have yet to explain how gaudy aesthetics are at all relevant. What about the form of that knife do you think renders it unsuitable for practical non-violent use?

> I suggest you try posting minus variations of "bullshit" or "shit".

Do you prefer "crap"? I prefer "shit".

I think we are done here though. I'll leave you with this, two non-scary looking assisted opening knives explicitly for hunting, fishing, and camping. One hansom, the other gaudy yet 'non-military': http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Stainless-Steel-Assisted-Opening... http://compare.ebay.com/like/150975567917?var=lv&ltyp=Al...

Clearly both instruments of murder and mayhem.

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Oh. And here I was thinking that people thought for themselves. Turns out you know what they're all thinking. Cool. I'm wrong and you're right. No one could ever use a spring-loaded knife for anything but knife fights like in west-wide story.

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You know we're talking about assisted-opening knives and not switchblades, right?

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You push a button and the blade snaps out in both cases. What's the real difference? The internal mechanisms differ, but the end result is the same.

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Refusing to advertise them for one company, but running the ads for another company, is an evil double standard. Whatever Google's knife rules are, they should be the same for small and big sellers.

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