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What we need is a currency that automatically implements NGDP level targeting a la Scott Sumner, and does so even as it's adopted in a more widespread fashion. Right now Bitcoin is a beautifully elegant transaction settlement mechanism married to a horrible, horrible crackpot goldbug theory of how money works as a store of value.

You cannot make loans denominated in Bitcoin (because the price is going up too fast to ever be paid back, and if it ever stops going up, people will be dumping it too fast for an interest rate) so there's no basic demand for the currency at a given price level (to pay back loans). People who want to use the beautiful transaction-settlement mechanism do not have any motive to thereby hold coins, and that means everyone holding the coins is doing so in an expectation that somebody else will buy them at a higher price. Bitcoin is pure instability, pure feedback (in either direction) of the velocity of money into the inverse price of money. I wish I had time to write an article about what an awful, terrible, no good, very bad idea it would be to try running a planet on Bitcoin.

If anyone does have a good idea how to implement NGDP level targeting in an e-currency, please say so or write me at yudkowsky at gmail. In fact, just write me if you can figure out how to measure NGDP in an e-currency in a way that can't be hacked and can distinguish more widespread adoption from increasing RGDP.




RGDP is such a subjective term that it's going to be impossible to design a decentralized currency that targets it. Maybe there's a more objective highly-correlate proxy that would work.

Then there's the problem that bitcoin is an international currency and GDP is a measure of national economies. As far as I know, Sumner does not have a theory for optimal monetary policy for a currency shared by a coalition of nations (i.e. the EU). The management of the Euro roughly stabilizes NGDP in Germany, but not in Italy and Spain which is the source of the current crisis in Europe.

On the other hand, an old-fashioned monetarist coin (constant rate of increase - "Friedman Coin") would be easy to implement and a lot better than a fixed supply coin. I'll leave others to figure out the "Sumner Coin".


You're not trying to detect RGDP. You're trying to detect NGDP, but in a way that isn't fooled by more widespread adoption of the currency.

Who gets the extra Friedman coins? Also if you don't have a central bank stabilizing the supply of money via interest rates in response to velocity changes things can go to crap very quickly a la the Great Depression.


>"You're trying to detect NGDP"

The problem with NGDP is the D. As far as I know, there is nobody (including Sumner) that believes the total nominal transaction volume of an arbitrary subgroup of international users should grow at some low constant rate over time.

Remember that MV = PY, Money Supply times Velocity equals Price Level times Real GDP. PY is nominal GDP, Y is real GDP. AFAIK, Sumner's followers argue that M should grow so that PY grows at some constant rate. V is assumed to be endogenous.

Now think of two countries with similar sized economies that share a currency. Imagine country 1 had Y growth of 3% and country 2 had Y growth of -1%. How should M change? As far as I know, this is virgin territory. Also, country 1 and 2 are basically Germany and Greece.

NGDP is easy to calculate for the users of bitcoin as every transaction is encoded in the blockchain. Of course, you are right that there is a difficulty because of a rapid unstable increase in V due to adoption, the NGDP of the Coin economy is measuring the economic activity of its users + some amount of canibalization of the legacy dollar economy. If you are looking for the "right" answer, I think it will elude you. But I have a "good enough" proposal for a Sumner Coin - start with the BTC reward scheme, and after PY stabilizes (i.e. changes less than 10% per month), use that as the base for PY and then set block rewards to grow PY by a constant amount. V is public so it is easy to calculate the appropriate M.

The Friedman coin is much simpler, since you are pegging M to a growth rate and not PY. Of course, the miners get the extra coins.

Both models decrease first mover advantage and relieve the need for transaction fees for stability of long-term mining. And for both models I would recommend an initial deflationary period to sweeten the pot for early adopters.


You're comparing the Bitcoin monetary policy to what you think will be the ideal automatic monetary policy.

But it's more interesting how the Bitcoin monetary policy compares to the current real-world human-controlled monetary policies of government money - which in the cases of most countries is definitely pure instability and filled with error.

The Bitcoin monetary policy doesn't have to be perfect to be an improvement, because the status quo is very imperfect.


> You cannot make loans denominated in Bitcoin

I'll give you 1 BTC on April 1st, 2013. You can repay me 1.5 BTC on April 1st, 2014, adjusted for deflation or inflation according to mtgoxUSD × CPI, as the case may be.

Problem solved. I give you spending power today, you give me more spending power later on, and we conduct the transaction in Bitcoins.

In the future, we will have our choice of price indexes that are denominated in Bitcoins directly.


I refuse. I think Bitcoins might appreciate more than that, and I don't want to take on the risk.

On a planet with a growing economy and a growing population, Bitcoins will always be appreciating faster than material investments can grow. If you can plant 100 seeds to get back 103 seeds (3% material interest) and also the planetary population is growing at 2%, that's 5% interest on Bitcoins. Except then people try to hold more Bitcoins since they grow faster than seeds, which makes Bitcoins appreciate even faster... but even before taking that into account, you still wouldn't be able to grow enough seeds fast enough to pay back a loan in BTC, if the planetary economy used Bitcoin.

The deflationary process makes things much worse; the more people try to hold Bitcoins, the fewer circulate and the lower the velocity, increasing the apparent price of Bitcoins. This process continues until instability in the price of Bitcoins as people occasionally dump their hoards is so great that Bitcoins stop appreciating. Then fewer people want to hold Bitcoins and they dump their Bitcoins and the velocity goes up and the price goes down and the bubble pops.

(The reason this doesn't happen with existing central bank currencies is that central banks regulate interest rates to stabilize the supply of money and hence its price in response to velocity changes, or at least they're supposed to. The reason this doesn't happen with equities is that they have an intrinsic rate of return due to dividends or stock buybacks; real estate has intrinsic rent; bonds have returns denominated in stabilized money.)

So like I said, Bitcoin is a horrible crackpot theory of money as a store of value, married to a beautiful transaction settlement mechanism.


Why do you refuse? Here, I'll lower my rate to 1.05x. If CPI remains stable and mtgoxUSD goes up by 1.06x between now and next year then you'll owe me less BTC than what I gave you. If mtgoxUSD goes down then you'll owe me more than 1.05 BTC but it'll be that much easier for you to buy them.

I am happy to offer you the loan, because Bitcoin prices are volatile and there is no guarantee if I keep my Bitcoin in storage that it will still be worth much one year from now. There have been many crashes. But if you agree to repay me an amount equivalent to 1.05x my current spending power then I know whatever you pay me I'll be in a better position than I am today in terms of my ability to pay my rent.

Such a loan offers me a drastically different risk profile than holding Bitcoins. If BTC were as guaranteed to increase as you say then they would cost more.


Oh, sorry, I didn't understand your original proposal.

This is a loan denominated in dollars, it's just being transaction-settled via Bitcoin. The medium of account is dollars and the medium of exchange is Bitcoin. This is pretty much exactly the original point I was talking about. :)


Well, it's not really denominated in dollars, it's denominated in the CPI. You could also have a Bitcoin Price Index that tracked how much spending power Bitcoins had and denominate your loan in that.


I sincerely doubt this will happen, but lets run with the scenario. In a totally deflationary world, more people try to hold bitcoins, I agree. The complementary effect is that the value of real goods, land and labour is reducing.

People earn to consume. The bitcoin rich, if they apply the Kelly criterion to their own portfolios, will diversify into whatever assets will provide them a regular real dividend. That is, farms yielding grain, orchard yielding fruit, NG wells yielding NG, wind farms yielding electricity. They will not be buying any investment for the purpose of money, but for the purpose of CONSUMPTION.

There lies the negative feedback that will stabilize any new currency as it conquers the world.


The way I would see a hypothetical solution work is to target price stability directly through some kind of supply/demand mechanism - that is, add a way to create currency units at a few percent above some target rate and a way to destroy them at a few percent below it. Somehow integrating computer power rental into the network is as close as I can think of, although that does give you a very high inflation rate of Moore's law. Another possibility might be velocity - look at the average age of unspent outputs (or, better yet, something like the sum of the inverse of the age over all coins, so lost coins automatically approach value zero) and add more currency units if it looks like things are going too slowly, but you would have to think long and hard to ensure that that's not gamable. It's an interesting unsolved problem, I admit.


Yeah they definitely need to stabilize its value somehow.

I'm actually not totally sure if NGDP-LT is optimal in a free-banking scenario though. But certainly some sort of value stabilization is.


> because the price is going up too fast to ever be paid back, and if it ever stops going up, people will be dumping it too fast for an interest rate

Is it implausible that these two forces would reach a relatively stable equilibrium, like stocks?


I think it is implausible.

What ultimately sets the price of stocks (and prevents undue speculation) is the profit earned by a company.

This mechanism doesn't exist in currencies, where the value comes only from what people think it's worth.


Can you make loans denominated in gold? I think you can. The volatility of bitcoin will settle down eventually. It's essentially the 19th century international gold standard for the 21st century.


> Can you make loans denominated in gold? I think you can.

Nobody does. Now why is that?

Friedman understood perfectly well that failure to increase the money supply in response to decreasing velocity was responsible for the Great Depression. He's sort of famous for that part, if I understand economic history correctly, it's why Bernanke apologized to Friedman's memory on behalf of the Fed. It seems odd to call them 'Friedman coins' when they depreciate automatically, but don't adjust to velocity and especially to changes in fractional reserve lending.


>Nobody does. Now why is that?

Probably executive order 6102 in 1933. By the time the government allowed private ownership of monetary gold again, it had fallen out of use as currency.


The world is a lot bigger than the scope of executive orders.




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