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You must have your blinders on. Musk is not a god, and you have been eating up Tesla's story rather than looking at the data.

Even Tesla's data corroborates most of Broder's account (heat was turned off, battery dropoff overnight, etc), and the only thing that remains is the question of the call logs. It's interesting that Tesla has the logs yet isn't revealing them. I suspect the logs will show that Tesla engineers didn't properly advise Broder on what to do, which is Tesla's fault, not any sort of fraudulence on NYT's part.




> Even Tesla's data corroborates most of Broder's account

I see you have it all wrong. I'm not in disagreement with that. (And there goes the basis for your comment.) Either you are willfully misreading my comment, or you're trying a subtle sleight of hand. The facts mostly fit Broder's account. I'm calling attention to the fact that all of the inaccuracies and bad decisions were pointedly in one direction. A reporter should have some facility in curbing his own bias. Apparently, Broder has insufficient competence in figures and self awareness for this.

This is precisely what Feynmann is talking about in the quote.


"I'm calling attention to the fact that all of the inaccuracies and bad decisions were pointedly in one direction"

They are not, though. From Broder's account (you should read the original article), most of the bad decisions and inaccuracies can be attributed to advice that Tesla gave Broder. That is the crux of the problem: Broder makes a claim based on Tesla engineer advice, and Musk denies and attributes that to malice.

I am arguing against your implicit assertion that NYT is at fault at each point of divergence between NYT's and Tesla's account. It's still up in the air, and as I said: "only thing that remains is the question of the call logs. "


Going back to the original point -- given how the whole trip turned out, Broder should have mentioned the side-trip to Manhattan, etc. -- anything possible to show where he may have gone wrong.

That said, Broder has an additional problem which is of being fair to the reader versus Tesla. He shouldn't grade Tesla on a curve. Bear in mind, the point isn't to make sure Tesla is treated fairly, but to make sure readers don't find themselves waiting for a flatbed truck in a blizzard.

Imagine how this would have gone with Top Gear doing it, all on video (quite likely including recording the conversations with tech support).

Going back to the public editor's piece: when was the last time you read a manual for anything? I have sometimes resorted to a manual as a last resort, but not when I have instant access to human tech support.


> most of the bad decisions and inaccuracies can be attributed to advice that Tesla gave Broder.

Yeah, if you let him get away with being scientifically illiterate.

> you should read the original article

EDIT: You litter your comments with these off-hand remarks that imply things about other's positions which aren't true.

> I am arguing against your implicit assertion that NYT is at fault at each point of divergence between NYT's and Tesla's account.

What, is putting words in other's mouths the modus operandi now? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Broder isn't sufficiently competent at curbing his own bias, knowing how to do empirical reporting, and making sensible technical decisions in the field to do a car review. He tried to get it right? Making inadequate efforts at getting at the truth isn't an acceptable level of performance from a national news media outlet. It's basically, "Hey, we tried. Be satisfied with our truthiness."


"I'm saying that Broder isn't sufficiently competent at curbing his own bias, knowing how to do empirical reporting, and making sensible technical decisions in the field to do a car review."

Your statement stems from an attack by Musk. What makes you think that a journalist would be more biased than the CEO of a car companies with billions of dollars at stake?

Your stalwart defense of Musk belies your inability to think objectively. My stance is as it was when I first saw the situation: the only way to resolve this is to reveal the phone logs. It's a he-said-she-said (that's something else I've pointed out multiple times) and somehow HN deems Musk (not a party to the conversation) more credible than the journalist asked to test drive without asking for the key information that would resolve this matter


> Your statement stems from an attack by Musk.

No, my statement stems from reading his account, then comparing it to Musk's data.

> What makes you think that a journalist would be more biased than the CEO of a car companies with billions of dollars at stake?

Again, this sort of sleight of hand. I'm not defending Musk's bias here, Musk's bias doesn't in any way exonerate the other's, and nice try, if that was intentional. I'm purely attacking Broder's incompetence.

> Your stalwart defense of Musk belies your inability to think objectively.

So it's "objective" to not recognize Broder's bias in his inaccuracies, or at least to excuse it because, hey Musk was probably biased too!

...Okay! You're entitled to your position, man!

> It's a he-said-she-said

Yes, the rest of us are just avoiding the "he-said-she-said" quagmire. It is a quagmire, and the likely ROI is low. Really, the outcome of one car review isn't so important, but the issue brings up plenty of stuff which is. I'll tell you what: When Musk is the head of a national media outlet "of record," and he publishes the same sort of stuff, I'll hold his feet to the fire for shoddy journalism for his hasty comments and interpretation of data -- which he is guilty of. It's not a par-performance, objectively a bit of a PR cock-up, but still understandable from a CEO. Of course he's biased in favor of his product. The journalist is only human, but he's not only supposed to try to be objective as a part of his job, he's supposed to show some competence at it.

The disturbing part of this whole issue for me is the degree to which carelessness about empirical fact is seen as "okay." Elon Musk has a substantial public record which shows a notable degree of diligence towards getting facts right. Broder's article -- best I could say about it is: enh.


I never understood why Musk went so hard after Broder from the start, as soon as I saw the data what I saw in it was something that correlated with his story reasonably well. Musk pointed out that he never got down to 45 but he was at something like 50-52 most of that time and he is reading a dial gauge. I assumed then that Musk had the call logs and they would be bad for Broder, either Musk doesn't have them or they do not make Tesla look good. In the end I think Tesla needs this to blow over and consider how this drive from a non-car reviewer indicates to them how they can improve their first-time-driver experience and make their product and their company better.


>> I never understood why Musk went so hard after Broder from the start

I would chalk it up to a combination of ego, thin skin and impulsiveness.

Had he came back with a much more measured rebuttal (think OXO vs Quirky), this story likely would have died earlier.




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