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wildranter 515 days ago | link | parent

Ah! I see what bothers you. It's the lack of respect for free speech, it pisses me off too.

On one side we have these somewhat free states driven by a set of religious values. On the other side we have totalitarian atheists regimes driven by a set of sociological principles. And in the middle we find ourselves without acces to basic rights like free speech.

I frequently ask myself how could we solve that without hurting others rights.

I wonder what fellow HNrs think about that.



guard-of-terra 515 days ago | link

The problem is, you also have states that are both totalitarian and religious.

So if you already have a totalitarian state (see Shah Iran) bringing in religion will make it worse, not better (the current mullah Iran).

Sadly, I don't see any good perspectives. In rich countries, the main voting power belongs to people of considerable age. And they don't use much freedoms therefore freedom is not a selling point for politicians; medical care and pensions are.

And in poorer countries you can always band together enough Red Guards to establish a totalitarian theocraty if you don't have one already.

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wildranter 515 days ago | link

It seems you value more the problems that religious extremists cause than the current blatant disregard to free speech. In that light you'd be better off moving to China.

Going against religion won't do any good to protect free speech or any other human right. You'll only gather more enemies.

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guard-of-terra 515 days ago | link

Aren't we talking about religion-influenced restriction to the freedom of expression here?

Why does religion go against us, but we should not go against it? They take pride in hurting whatever I consider worthy.

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wildranter 515 days ago | link

What you fail to acknowledge is that by going against someone over any disagrement you're hurting not only civility, but you transform yourself into the very thing you're fighting against.

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guard-of-terra 515 days ago | link

What should I do then? Sit on my bottom and pretend to be happy?

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wildranter 515 days ago | link

Hell no! Fight them back with better ideas, respect, and equality. But first of all, you have to understand what you're up against, study what they say, find cracks in their logic, and show that you're both on the same side. It's all a matter of perspective.

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guard-of-terra 515 days ago | link

You respect them and then they lynch you. When a tolerant culture meets untolerant culture, the former usually backs off even if it's more advanced. Take France as example.

I think we should not be tolerant to people who violate basic human rights. They either behave or we should find a way to catapult them away.

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drharris 515 days ago | link

You seem to advocate the silencing of religion, a basic human right. Volunteering to be first in the catapult?

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guard-of-terra 515 days ago | link

Is arresting people for illoyalty to your god (or even better to a crappy politician) a human right?

Because I'm advocating against that.

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