Hacker Newsnew | comments | show | ask | jobs | submit login

> You can lose everything overnight with automated trading.

I'll take it ad absurdum: You can lose everything in a second by not looking left and right while crossing the road. Or even by looking left and right while crossing the road, when someone else is driving recklessly.

It is possible to attempt HFT with not much more risk than stating a new InstaFaceGoogApple service. Put $10,000 in your margin account, and use a broker that practices proper margin checking. Tada! You're not going to lose more than $15,000 over that. (Yes, you can lose more than you put in your margin account, but not by much).

While that's more, upfront, than InstaFaceGoogApple, it is comparable to the 4 months of salary that you're going to forfeit while building the InstaFace service. And unlike most InstaFace apps, you have immediate market feedback, which can only be a good thing.

Note: Instagram did have immediate feedback from the public at large, forcing them to scale much earlier than they expected - but they did not have a feedback as to the financial value of their proposition. In fact, it wouldn't take much for instagram worth to be zero. Read, e.g. http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/02/my-name-is-james-a-and-... - a $100M acquisition back then is like a $300M acquisition in today's valuations; not Instagram but definitely nothing to ignore.

> With a startup, you can hit bottom. In the right market, bottom is much further down than you can ever see.

That's true. But you still have to remember that 90% of startups fail, and of those that succeed, many are just moderately successful. And yet no one keeps yelling "but most startups lose money!" at every HN story.

> When you think automated trading, you think, "Hey, it can't be that hard", and start firing up your IDE and rolling out code to talk to an easily provisioned API.

Which is what we should address, and these "it's a gamble" warning do not. When you see Suzanne Vega singing, you might think "Hey, it can't be that hard to sing". Many people do. And yet, they grow out of it, usually without trying to publish an album (and failing). This should be no different.




No broker is offering the ability to engage in HFT for 10 grand.

In order to open an account with the neccessary infrastructure to engage in HFT one must be an accredited investor (typically means having a net worth of 1 million dollars or more) and the cheapest brokers typically require a minimum deposit of $500,000.

Not to mention the overall costs including hardware, co-location, market data and other vendor costs are on the order of 45-50k a month.

With $10,000 you can't even open up a normal day trading account as the law required a minimum deposit of 25k.

-----


Not true. I have a commodities trading account I use to trade corn, soybeans, and hogs. Minimum opening balance was $5K (Tradestation). Scottrade and others have a minimum of $500. Now if you're talking margin accounts, sure, you're going to need more.

-----


>>You can lose everything in a second by not looking left and right while crossing the road. Or even by looking left and right while crossing the road, when someone else is driving recklessly.

The point is you are lured into crossing the road, when you absolutely didn't have to.

-----


How are you "lured" by reading an article about someone who successfully crossed the road, any more than you are "lured" into a singing career by reading about Adele or "lured" into building an instagram clone?

-----




Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: