Lion and Mountain Lion installers contain images which can easily be converted to ISO:
and there are many more options and approaches:
And this is coming from Rob Pike.
edit: (^)Or you take it to the Apple Genius people, who just have the correct tools.
I'm not sure I agree?
Apple's always optimized for the average person's average case. "Those of us that need to maintain machines" aren't the average person engaged in the average case activity; they're engaged in a corner case activity and should have the knowledge to swing the non-trivial (but still trivial) ISO extraction method.
This is a small inconvenience for a small section of their customer base with a big upside: updating one OS version to the next over the internet is dead-stupid easy for the non-technical majority.
It beats the hell out of what for years has passed as Microsoft's version of selling you an OS upgrade over the internet; paying for a download of an .iso, figuring out what to do with an .iso, burning it, and using it is easier for the "those of us that need to maintain machines", but way out of reach for the non-technical majority. It's optimizing for exactly the wrong case.
I fail to see what is "non-average" about wanting to restore a machine from a Time Machine backup after a hard drive failure. Time machine is the only backup solution an average user will ever use, and is supposed to be a backup solution, not a placebo. As indicated in the article, it doesn't actually work for the the most (or second most) common case.
Rob Pike is most decidedly average in this case, he is most interested in working on his projects, not understanding the trivialities of maintaining the Apple Macintosh. Just like most people who have work to do that doesn't really revolve around shuffling boot disks around.
The "experts" (that, those who read macrumors regularly), will, of course, have not trusted time machine and will have a carbon copy cloner backup they can clone onto the new drive. They're ok. Meanwhile, the "average" folk who trust that an Apple provided backup solution... I dunno, backs things up... will be screwed.
Is windows worse? Maybe, but you know what -- as shitty as their incremental backup to a series of .zip files is -- at least it takes a complete image of the boot drive by default as part of the backup.
They point to this tool pretty clearly as part of the purchase process.
So with MS you can do it anyway you like: Installation as an app, or an ISO which you may trivially burn to a DVD or flash to a USB drive using a tool that they also provide.
Huh? Mac users don't pay for OS X licenses, they only pay for upgrades. Time Machine is included in the OS, free of charge. OS X applications, and especially Apple's apps, are often cheaper than similar software on other platforms.
Also, there are a lot of Mac apps not made by apple of better quality and inexpensive.
And I lost iPhoto. Because suddenly my Macbook Air stopped being eligible for free iPhoto.
I reinstalled Snow L on an older machine and then could no longer reinstall iphoto. I'd paid for it on my app store account but there was no way to install the older version (and I couldn't upgrade to the newer version).
Once again reinforced the danger of the cloud hosted licensing model; software I paid for wasn't actually mine to keep/use.
iPhoto is part of the iLife package, a paid product. It is not part of OS X, but when you get a new Mac the latest version is thrown in for free.
Maybe I've gone through too many OS X installations in my time but this neither surprises nor frustrates me in any way...
Also his other point about losing all installers is actually a point in favor of the app store distribution model. They're always there unlike a physical disk which can go bad on you.
Time machine and Migration Assistant errors he rightly cribs about though. It is imperative that they work right.
All in all it's strange that one of the people who did seminal work in the early days of UNIX and C comes off looking like lost layperson. You'd expect him to be able to be able to deal with this way better.
You can be able to do something, and still find convienence in paying someone else to handle it for you.
Apple is aware of those problems and hard at work fixing them. All current Macs, for example, now come with Internet Recovery, meaning it is possible to boot them into the recovery manager (and from there it’s possible to run Disk Utility, the Terminal or the installer), even with a completely empty HDD. All the iLife apps you get with your Mac (and all apps you buy in the App Store) are automatically tied to your Apple ID, meaning you can download them as often as you want. You cannot even buy any software on CDs from Apple anymore (the lone exception to that is Logic Studio).
I assume (hope!) that all Time Machine bugs have been fixed, but do not know. It seems weird that even the latest version of OS X Lion would come with those bugs, so I’m not sure what’s going on there. At any rate, the experience he had is unacceptable.
I have used this procedure many times, it works like a charm.
However, I do want Apple to provide a more obvious way of doing just that. It would be great if their tool for creating a bootable recovery manager worked just with the OS X install app as a source.
But to be honest, I do not think that doing a clean install is a good idea for the most people and for defect HDDs, new Macs at least come with internet recovery (but the older ones are still a problem).
1. Backup under Snow Leopard via Time Machine
2. Replace drive
3. Install fresh copy of Snow Leopard
4. Upgrade to Lion
5. Attempt to use Migration Assistant to restore from the Time Machine backup taken in step (1).
This failed at step (5) and he ended up having to do lots of manual work to copy his data and apps out of the TM backup.
I think if he restored from the the Time Machine backup after replacing the drive, then attempted the Lion upgrade, he'd have been successful. Minimally, it would've been a combination of well tested scenarios. I'll bet not as much testing went into using Migration Assistant under Lion against Snow Leopard TM backups.
Not a knock on Rob Pike, obviously a very smart dude, but knowing computers at one point doesn't mean you've invested the time to keep up with them since. My dad was a network engineer in the 90's and early 00's and I learned a lot from him, but these days, when he needs to pick out a laptop or something, he asks me. I'm more connected to it than he is now, because he has other things on his plate.
Some friends of mine who are professionals in other fields have noted (not about me, I hope, but I know that I'm guilty of this at times as well) that "computer people" have no end of cases where they think their preexisting knowledge is enough to solve a problem when it has little or no bearing on the topic at hand (politics, biology, whatever). I see no reason that can't also be true within the computer field as well. Because a pretty cursory Google would have explained all the things people elsewhere in this thread have explained about how to actually do this--but he didn't do it, relied on his own previous knowledge, and it didn't really apply.
It sounds like he got into this situation by calling up and trusted customer support and doing what any normal consumer does: then calling the fixup guy who is supposed to do this stuff professionally.
They said to make a backup and everything would work. He made a backup and it didn't work. From there, everything got worse.
I know that is pretty much the opposite of what I, an undoubtedly overzealous "technology guy", would try to do. Though, as a technology guy I probably would have said "Fuck it, lets install linux" not even halfway through the trouble he was having (and if it were still 2003 and the linux distro I was trying to install were Gentoo, the effort required between the two probably would have just about evened out).
Sticking with it and trying to work with customer service is a very "normal trusting consumer" thing to do.
If he had someone who knew about Apple, or even if he searched google for 'bootable lion usb' he could have had his problem fixed in 20 minutes (disk utility to 'restore' the main .dmg from the installer onto his other USB stick)
Clearly not. For one thing you just don't erase a working drive with your data on it until the repair is successful. If it's some warranty thing and they are going to take the drive then you at least make a 1:1 image of it using dd or equivalent block copy first. If they are replacing it with the same size just dd the image back for that matter.
The worst part is this repair is trivial for anybody that knows what he's doing. You just order a replacement drive from newegg (or wherever), mount the new and old drives using target disk mode or external enclosure, and copy the disk. Then you swap the drives. This wasn't an Air or something difficult, just unscrew the case and replace the drive. Or if you really don't want to take it apart yourself have the repairman do the swap.
It's really easy, especially with a second Apple available. I did it just a few weeks ago for a family member, the only actual time investment is opening the case to swap the drives.
One of the advantages of the App Store model is that software is (AFAIK) easily redownloaded and reinstalled, so much so that I know people who have re-bought Aperture (for $80) on the App Store just for the convenience (plus then it can go on multiple Macs).
Why Rob Pike wouldn't fork over $80 for Aperture and save himself the hassle is beyond me. You can say "it's the principle of the thing; I've already paid for it!" but really? What is your time worth?
iWork can be had on the App Store too. Photoshop obviously can't but Photoshop should be recoverable somehow (right?).
These days I have a box with the few disks I need (Win7, MS Office), I store my personal files on Dropbox and any media gets stored on a hard disk. If my Macbook Air got stolen or just died I'd be up and running within 2 hours of getting a new one.
The only real annoyance for me is changing what computer your iDevices sync to. THAT is a major PITA. If you are migrating machines it's not so bad (but harder than it should be). But otherwise you need to backup, wipe it and reinstall everything and even then you lose all your iOS folders and so forth.
I don't like the iMacs because they're not built for replacing hard disks (amongst other things). The Mac Mini however is. If this had happened to me I would've been shelling out money to avoid the hassle and the whole thing would've been over in a day or two.
The moral I get from this post isn't how Apple is making things harder than they need to be (which they clearly are): it's that you shouldn't get caught up on the small shit that doesn't matter.
Well, the trouble with that approach is that money votes.
When you pay this extra $80 you reinforce the behavior.
And I'd really prefer not to pay second time. Because that reinforces the behavior of profiting by screwing people up. Maybe it saves my time. But it is unethical.
Before downloading apps was the norm, no company would issue a second copy of something you bought.
And with the app store, in just a year or so I already had a couple of cases when I lost access to an installer. One was that I lost iPhoto, with OS upgrade on Air. Another, temporarily, for around a week I had no access to XCode installer [because of some screw up in the store].
Unfortunately pirated packages are often filled with malware. Not exactly what you want. So a much better choice is just going with open source. Picasa, instead of iPhoto, etc...
You are not buying the disk with the data, you are buying a license to run the software. Even when you pirate it, the license should still apply.
I understand than with P2P networks, you are distributing the file while downloading and that's when they get upset.
Re: downloading, the EFF's Fred von Lohmann says it's probably infringement, and so do the media companies, of course.
Ethically I think it is obvious such a thing would be completely reasonable. Technically almost certainly not.
Less than my self-respect? The iterated prisoner's dilemma cautions us against letting someone profit by screwing us over. And the very idea of Rob friggin' Pike embracing learned helplessness is very depressing. Of course, so is the idea of him not having the source to his system, when he wrote quite a bit of it.
http://imgur.com/m7tLP that is a screenshot of my App Store purchases, notice that Mountain Lion and Lion are both available...
Snow Leopard wasn't sold in the App Store and thus will not be available. You should have physical media for Snow Leopard.
Right now you might have access but who knows when it'll be taken away and you'll be back to torrenting the content you paid for.
What Apple should really do is ship an app with OSX that lets you create recovery boot media (either on DVD, a thumb drive or a full on external HD). That would make things so much easier for everyone.
Current Macs also come with Internet Recovery, meaning it’s always possible to boot into the Recovery Manager, even with an empty HDD.
I had to make a two hour drive to get to an Apple store where I could actually get a reinstall after my HDD broke.
It seems pretty silly to include a "safe mode" that won't even allow someone to use it. I always end up holding the power switch in for a few seconds until I reboot into normal mode, which apparently includes having blank/pixelated icons :-/
I would just wait.
However, if you would really like to know where your boot is getting stuck, do a verbose boot, which is the same thing as a safe boot, except it replaces the gray Apple screen fairly (and usefully) verbosely.
Did you read the whole thing?
It took weeks to get everything working again properly.
Because I could prove that I had paid for the software, Apple agreed to send me fresh installation disks for everything of theirs but Aperture, but that would take time. In fact, it took almost a month for the iWork DVD to arrive, which is unacceptably long. I even needed to call twice to remind them before the disks were shipped.
Getting a closed, commercial product (with a baroque unix base) to bend over backwards to perform basic functions like backup and installation is not a Plan 9 user's of fun. I would hazard a guess that the greatest reason Rob got burned could have been the naive expectation that programs will perform their designated task simply and correctly?
Considering Apple's user-base, on the other hand, idiot proofing the system seems to be a much higher priority. Which is the main reason why I still don't understand why Plan 9 people can stand to use Macs.
It's amazing software, and it saved me once now, it's been only a year since I've been using it. Hard-drive fails? Plug in external one, and use your computer as if nothing happened.
Their "smart update" feature is very useful.
I have an old, 2008 Macbook (not Pro) 4,1. The old white plastic kind. Lion performs atrociously (at best) on it, so around half a year ago I installed Linux on it. Recently, I got around to buying a new laptop (a Lenovo), and wanted to restore OSX on the old Macbook in order to give it to family.
I figured off the bat I'd do a clean install of Mountain Lion. I have old Leopard installation media, but that's a dead upgrade path: you can't buy Snow Leopard media anymore, so you cannot upgrade it. Apple don't sell physical media for Mountain Lion either, so I went to a friend's house, logged into the Mac App store, purchased and downloaded Mountain Lion.
When I got home, the installer (which took an hour or so to image onto a USB stick) didn't work. I figured it might be balking on the HDD being Linux, so dd'd it. Nope. It turns out Mountain Lion is incompatible with my hardware.
This is where the vortex begins. I returned to my friend, and tried to get the Lion installer off the App Store (on my account), which I had previously purchased. No dice. Apple have removed Lion now that Mountain Lion is out.
I tried to install the copy of Snow Leopard my friend had. Not possible. As OEM media, it's got (very basic, admittedly) DRM onboard which restricts the installation to his hardware.
I tried to get the copy of Snow Leopard I had originally installed, when my previous employer had (kindly) purchased a stack of us personal copies alongside upgrades for work machines. Nope; they'd stopped using Macs and those were gone.
Being frustrated, I figured I'd install Leopard on the laptop and be done with it. Nope. The disc, it turns out, is scratched.
At this stage, I called Apple. I asked what I could do. I was advised I could purchase a physical copy of Lion off them, if I paid full price -- despite already having purchased it on the App Store. Frustrated, but at this stage just wanting to be rid of the device, I agreed. It turns out this was also not possible. Apple's support is in Australia, and NZ can't get the physical media (at least, I believe this to be the case; I may have conflated the issue on the phone with needing to get the media within a week).
The next day, I took the laptop to a Yoobee store (our Apple store equivalent). They told me they'd have to ship the laptop to the support centre to fix it.
So, to recap: I can't install Mountain Lion, because my hardware is too old. I can't get physical media for Snow Leopard or Lion, because Apple no longer sell it. I can't retrieve a copy of Lion from the app store and create my own, because Apple has removed it. I can't install Leopard, because my media is damaged (not Apple's fault) -- but even if I could, it's unsupported and with no physical media, there's no upgrade path. The only solution was to pay to ship the laptop off to a support centre. Ultimately, I was very lucky to find another friend on IRC who still had a Lion USB stick he'd imaged earlier, but the fact I needed to do this is... well, awful.
This is a _terrible_ customer support situation. I'll admit it's compounded by the fact I'm in New Zealand, and we have no Apple stores (fair enough: our entire population is less than several US cities), so support is harder to come by. I'll admit that, having installed Linux, I'm probably in somewhat of a minority. However, Apple's forced hardware deprecation, and removal of physical media, have made it almost literally impossible to restore a working copy of OSX on their own hardware.
At this point it's academic; the laptop is gone... but if I did something wrong I'd definitely like to know :).
Who thinks of something like that? If you do something stupid like that, at least support should know about it. For shame Apple, for shame! m(
I remember already being annoyed about that some time ago.
In part, it seems some people "have the touch" for such work. I've fixed up a few abused (by others) music CD's this way.
Yes you can, providing you call Apple.
I trust Apple, Windows and Linux enough to not ruin my life, but not enough to keep me 100% safe.
Passwords: Personal & Business kept in LastPass and a copy in KeePass (synced in dropbox to 3 devices). Client passwords stored in Keepass + manual copies on digital client folders (secured files) + notes in a locked safe.
Games + apps: Digital downloads loaded into Raid 5 array, backed up on server, backed up onto DVD. serials/usernames/download links saved in cloud mail server + keypass
Documents: Saved to external HD, saved to raid 5, rsynced to private VPS, rysynced to downstairs server.
There is absolutely no excuse for losing passwords and misplacing things like that. That part of the story I believe it all the ops fault.
> Did you wake up this morning and say "I wish someone would figure out a way to let me do less with my computer"?
#2. You are wrong. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac-core-2...
2) You are wrong. Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo. There is a difference. Apple only sold Core Duos for a very short time in 2006, right after their switch to Intel. At the latest, he could have bought a MacBook with a Core Duo on November 5, 2006. After that date, Apple discontinued the last one. So his MacBook is at least nearly six years old.
It’s easy to massively mis-estimate the age of the stuff you own. Happened often enough to myself, so I’m not really surprised about that.
All he needed to do, with an Internet connection, was power on holding Command+R and the Mac does the rest (formats the new drive and creates a recovery partition, then, boots to it, and one of the options there is to restore the entire computer from a Time Machine backup).
He made this needlessly complicated, and really should have just called AppleCare back, as they could have easily walked him through these steps.
Regardless of the author's fluency with computers (who really cares?) one can only marvel at the sheer absurdity in squandering the better part of a day (or was that several days?) mucking around with OS updates. Really? What a colossal waste of time.
I went through a couple Seagates and a couple WD's, each of which would corrupt the Time Machine volume repeatedly. The last straw came when I had an internal drive failure on my MBP, and my existing Time Machine drive would not even mount, and Disk Warrior, Drive Genius, and TechTool Pro (in that order) were of no help.
I switched to using a Thermaltake USB3 dock, with 3.5" WD Enterprise drives. I have not had a single issue since. You get what you pay for in hard drives. If you are relying upon them for backup - don't go cheap. It isn't worth it!
Anyway, you're right about everything you said in your post, but just so people know, you can pay $20K for a backup array and if you don't have a remote, one fire makes that backup meaningless. Crash Plan, Carbonite, Backblaze, etc etc (AWS Glacier anyone?) all these services are so cheap you'd be insane not to just drop the $5 a month if your data is valuable.
On each machine you have, download the Lion Installer app via the App Store. The app seems to be different for different models of Mac. From experience, it seems one model Mac might not be able to use the installer from a different model Mac. Open the app package and burn the ESDInstall.dmg to a USB stick to use as an installer.
Using the USB installer, erase the drive as a single partition, and perform a clean install of Lion. This ensures the recovery partition is created on the drive.
Launching the USB installer again, format the main partition and then restore from your encrypted Time Machine.
The partition you are restoring to is unencrypted so when the restore is complete, reboot your Mac, and manually enable FileVault (if you want it).
They're not without issue, but I've done every single thing he's complained about not being possible……except installing an OS over Target Disk……but that's a stupid idea anyway.
Linux is running fine instead.
My wife's Macbook Air uses Time Machine to backup, and I haven't done any other sort of backup with it. If her hard drive crashes, will she lose information, or is Time Machine reliable enough to restore her entire laptop? I just assumed it was good enough. If this isn't true, and if she loses any information, it's not Tim Cook who will need to deal with her wrath...
Since then, I upgraded that macbook with an intel 160 gb SSD, and restored from a time capsule back up. No problem. I updated to a retina MacBook, migrated from a now time capsule back up of essentially the same system, and it died. Hardware failure. Proved, with Apple, o. Apple sold me a new one, but had to order what I wanted online. The sold me a temp. Out of paranoia, I built the system back from scratch and just restored my home folder. Then, when the new retina came in (third retina if you're counting), I again rebuilt, and restored just the home folder from time machine.
I have also kept using the old 2008 MacBook. Ultimately, I think I should have not tried switching the backup from the '08 to the retina. In the end, I abandoned that backup and just started new backups for both systems.
Through all that I have never lost a file.
I also have an iMac with a USB time machine disk. I have restored from that disk (after screen and hard drive were replaced under warranty) and the restore hung at "less than a minute remaining." I rebooted, things were weird, I rebooted into single-user mode and ran fsck. Rebooted, all files good, reinstalled 10.8.2 from app store because coreaudiod was acting weird.
As far as I can tell, all files still good.
I also backup everything to CrashPlan (family plan, so worth it), but have never had to go hunting through it to get anything.
Time machine gives me the heebie jeebies but has not failed me despite my worst efforts.
If he had installed SL, run Time Machine restore and then run the upgrade to Mountain Lion I don't think it would have thrown any issues.
I've restored from various Time Machine backups in the past without any issues. I'm a happy Time Machine user.
I don't get it...
Ume. I got it. I got. Hey, guys, I got it.
I just think the title should be a little more clear (like add a "not" at the end).