Hacker News new | comments | show | ask | jobs | submit login
Why Google Should Customize your Gmail Login Page to Prevent Phishing (ethanheilman.tumblr.com)
21 points by EthanHeilman 1826 days ago | hide | past | web | 19 comments | favorite



There are several reasons not to do this:

1. Unless Google can roll this out in a short timeframe to all their properties with 100% reliability, it's basically useless. If half of their login screens don't have it, there's no way for a consumer to tell the difference between a hacked site and a legitimate malfunction (such as a cleared cache, or fresh computer installation). Luckily, Google's web logins are already centralized, but people also log into Chrome, their Android devices, etc.

2. You can never remove the customization. You better be sure you want to support custom images forever, because you are committing to a promise: your customers' login screens will look exactly the same from now on. The only way to migrate away from it is to bite the bullet and deal with a ton of people who think that their browser or Google has been hacked because it's missing their custom picture.

That's too much commitment to a stopgap measure for a password form that Google wants to obsolete anyways. They'd rather have you authenticate to your browser or via a device anyways, long term.


1. Even if they roll it out to all their login pages fresh computers are still a problem (it is addressed in the article), but the current state of affairs is that "users can't tell the difference between a hacked site and a legitimate site". When this system fails it is just as bad as the current system, when it is setup it is significantly safer.

> You can never remove the customization. 2. Google can just announce they are moving away from the customized login page on their login page. The customized login page is trusted so the new information is trusted.

The customization can be framed as an extra security measure that power users who want to protect themselves from phishing attacks can setup on their home computer. Similar to the way google rolled out two-factor authentication.

>They'd rather have you authenticate to your browser or via a device anyways, long term.

Long term this is right login screens will move off of the browser, but security must be concerned about the now. Note that phishing still presents a risk on mobile device login screens. As long as your security depends on something you know, phishing attacks will be relevant, and client-side identification of trust will still be relevant.


They already have all of this for GAFYD (Google Apps For Your Domain) users, which has a free version that I've been using for ~5 years:

https://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html

You can set a custom image and apply some simple style tweaks to the sign-in box on the login page. Here's mine:

http://i.imgur.com/xReSS.png


FYI - You missed one occurrence of the domain.


shhh.. lol


The customization is not stored on the client though. I can just go to your domain and copy it.


True, but it does protect me against generic GMail phishing -- they'd have to specifically target me.


The login screen that google uses to authenticate third parties is not customized (how could some third party now what your custom google domain is). You can verify this by attempting to sign into goodreads using google while not signed into any of your accounts.


The time honored solution to this is not how you propose- Its called double-stepping and its annoying from a UI perspective.

Step 1: Enter your username and click "go"

Step 2: you are presented with a image you have chosen before- If the image matches, you enter your password and click continue

USBank.com does this, try it by typing in a random name, like cstevens - Notice how it doesnt accept a user + pass on the same screen


Double stepping is fundamentally weaker from a security perspective. The phisher can present you the username screen, use it to fetch your correct image from Google, and present the image to you.

This proposal is better in the sense that the correct image is cached locally and protected by the browser's local storage origin policy.


the easier answer is to leverage SSL authentication. There's no reason we should have to use passwords every time we login to a site. All sites have to do is generate a single device asymetric key pair and provide the one part to the client's browser (we'll call this private) and associate the other part ("public") to whatever account you care about.

Now, you still need some other element to authenticate the user when they visit a website from a new device/browser, but this would mean that you don't have long term cookies that serve the same role and are therefore more extractable over the wire (as we've seen in the past) and would negate these type of attacks.

Also, the tech exists in browsers today already, many SSL registrars already do it.


"3. This is really the tricky part as an attacker can wipe browser cookies at will."

No need for an attacker, I do wipe them at will. Every time I close the browser.


It's what Yahoo has been doing for a while. They call it "Sign-in seal" and it's basically a custom picture you select yourself.


There have been studies showing that users don't notice the absence of cues like this.


Oooh, I'd love to have a link to that. Is this recent work?


Why? Their two factor authentication works just fine.


Someone can just steal your two factor authentication token by asking for one at a forged login page.


It's not that easy. I use the "push" authentication model, aka Google sends me an SMS whenever I need to authenticate a device. I don't request it explicitly. The pairing is made between the authentication code, and that device. Now, if it happens that I'm stupid enough to enter my login details into a fake page, the interesting part would be the lack of SMS from the Google side, but I will get an SMS when somebody else would try the credentials. Tough break. Besides, this week's phishing attempt asked me my: name, Google account, password, recovery email address. They say that https is as secure as the user that's using it. Same goes for this stuff.

device = browser profile, aka for two browsers on the same machine you need two authentication tokens. Same goes for the same browser with two profiles.


What about machines with multiple Gmail users? Counting on user data when the user is logged out seems like a major problem right off the bat. (But how is a hacker going to clear your cookies remotely?)




Applications are open for YC Winter 2018

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: