Ask HN: Anyone else ready to ditch app stores and Facebook's ecosystem?

[hedayet]

I'm getting fed up with Apple and Google controlling everything through their app stores. The fees are ridiculous, their policies are frustrating, and the platform limitations just keep piling up.

I've looked into PWAs and web native apps as alternatives, but they still can't do everything a native app can - especially on iOS where Apple conveniently restricts things like push notifications for web apps.

And don't even get me started on building for Facebook(Good thing is we were able to remove Facebook signin as less than 2% of our users were using it - lol) . Any support is practically non-existent, and they change their APIs without warning, and their policy enforcement feels completely random. I've seen too many developers get their apps suddenly banned with vague error messages, then get stuck in endless loops with their useless review process (and no support team!)

Is anyone successfully building outside these walled gardens? What are the biggest obstacles, and how do we push the web (or something else) forward as a true alternative? Would love to hear your experiences.

[dlcarrier]

I've never had a Facebook account nor used an official market as the primary means of obtaining software, so I can't give any guidance on ditching them, but I can tell you what I do without them.

Last time I owned an iOS phone, I was using Cydia to install software, but I haven't kept up, so I don't know what that scene is like. In the future, it may be possible to load software yourself, on an unmodified version of iOS, but for now I don't think it's possible, although it's easy on Android.

There's no need to make a web interface to work around running native software, in Android you can just compile and run whatever you want, without Google's involvement.

If you want an interface on your phone for installing from a large software library, You can download the F-Droid installer here: https://f-droid.org/ The user interface is awful, because it follows Google's design guidelines, so I usually search for and download software from that same web page, then load the APK file onto my phone using adb, which is available from the andoid-tools package in most operating systems.

Local push notifications did stop working well in Android, when Google started pushing a paid service to run all notifications through their cloud infrastructure, so I just send an email message to gmail, which gets an immediate notification.

[hedayet → dlcarrier]

I agree with most of you said. But my frustrations and concerns are more from a developer/distributor point of view.

[dlcarrier → hedayet]

Many organizations post the APK file on their web page or link to it from a QR code. You can also have it download newer versions of itself, as they are released. Here's an example: https://newpipe.net/#download

[wruza]

especially on iOS where Apple conveniently restricts things like push notifications for web apps

Apple implemented it after the outcry few years ago, but guess what, time-critical webpush never worked on google. Most of these “but webpush” posts and demands were from non-practicing pretenders. I even low key lost faith in HN back then.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38430581

What are the biggest obstacles, and how do we push the web (or something else) forward as a true alternative?

I don’t think there is a way forward, we’re at the end game. Full anarchy harms regular users, full walling gives bigcorps nice leverage. Even faced with choice, most users will choose safety over freedom and privacy, because maintaining safety in tech is risky and costs time/money.

[solardev]

I don't think you or a bunch of us small time devs have any hope of beating the multinational megacorps. Probably the best chance we have is the E.U. slapping them on the wrist enough times that they open up a tiny little bit, but I don't have my hopes up.

If you want the reach of the app stores, playing in their walled gardens and paying their fees is all you can do :( Sure you can make a web app, but you probably lose half your audience or more right off the bat. It's on purpose and neither Google nor Apple are going to make that easier to avoid unless forced to.

[breijen]

I do believe we can move toward a real alternative, but the main obstacle is that the Play Store and App Store are pre-installed on most smartphones. People rarely consider where to get their apps from—they just default to what's already there.

The only real way this might change is if developers decide to skip those stores altogether. But given the massive audience that Google and Apple provide, it's hard to see that happening. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle, unfortunately. I’d love to see an alternative though.

[scarface_74]

iOS supports push notifications if the user adds your web app to their Home Screen from Safari

https://frizbit.com/blog/ios-web-push-notifications/

[muzani]

I still like the Play Store as both a consumer and developer. But I've always disliked the App Store. I tend to release only Android apps and no iOS, partly because of the app store fee and draconian restrictions, lol.

Facebook has been terrible for us too. We got banned. Appealed. Rejected. Appealed again. After a few months of resubmitting the exact same appeal, FB unbanned us. Not that we were banned for any crimes in particular in the first place. I agree nobody is checking it and by this time, all the meta staff who cared have been laid off most likely.

We ended up removing FB login a year later because Apple made it mandatory to have Apple sign in, but kept it on Android. There were no reduction in usage, no complaints. In the future, I just won't implement FB logins; it's lots of work to offboard.

I think people should be allowed to do quick/anon sign ups of some form though.

[bsenftner]

Anyone ready? You're extremely f'ing late, dude.

[bediger4000]

> conveniently restricts things like push notifications for web apps.

I have never knowingly allowed push notifications. I dumped Facebook years ago when whatever their messaging app started popping people's faces up all over my phone's screen, using valuable screen acreage to tell me that someone posted an uninformed conspiracy theory.

Strikes me as a feature, frankly.

[hedayet → bediger4000]

I hear you and I myself have push notifications turned off by default. But ours is a b2b app and our customers do ask for push notifications so they won't miss any important notifications from their customers.