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WiseWeasel 622 days ago | link | parent

It seems like Dalton was under the impression that he was rather explicitly threatened with being denied access to the Facebook platform through a change in terms of service, in a way that is critical to his business. That's a strong-handed negotiation tactic for a supposed business infrastructure provider.


tijs 622 days ago | link

I do wonder how many people in Facebook actually think of their company as a "business infrastructure provider".

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DevX101 622 days ago | link

Strong handed and entirely legitimate.

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jasonwatkinspdx 622 days ago | link

All's fair in business is a bullshit perspective. It's the self justification of those who want to engage in behavior they know is sociopathic.

Deception is occasionally a necessary tactic, but it would be insane to try to argue that it is a behavior that creates economic value. It should not be the expected default behavior, and in fact, is not. Which is why there are both civil and criminal penalties for fraud.

Deceptive behavior that is less than fraud may not be illegal, but it's still shame worthy in my view.

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jlgreco 622 days ago | link

I've been seeing comments like the one you have responded to more and more here. Commenters seemingly confusing legality with ethics and politeness, or perhaps mistakenly thinking that the later two do not exist.

If we swapped out companies with strangers and HN with facebook, would these people be responding to their friends posting venting comments about whistlers on the bus to work with "It's a free country, they are allowed to whistle on the bus, so shutup."? To be honest, I don't think so. I think the reason this reply is absurd is patently is likely obvious to them when the subject of the criticism does not involve a corporation. It seems as far as they are concerned, as soon as a company enters the picture, all criticisms become invalid if they do not involve law-breaking.

Why this is the case I can only guess.

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unimpressive 622 days ago | link

> Why this is the case I can only guess.

Because in contemporary North American culture the expectation for a company is basically sociopathic behavior within the law. But the expectation for an individual person is ethically aware and polite behavior in the face of public scrutiny.

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jasonwatkinspdx 622 days ago | link

Yes. Our business culture is rotten. I think it's a huge drag on our economy we don't criticize enough.

Too many people playing poker games instead of building a world where we all get better lives.

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jlgreco 622 days ago | link

I was thinking about this earlier, and it occurred to me that "expect" has two meanings in a way.

I expect companies to not act ethically. In other words, I think of myself as a realist and this just seems to be how companies are going to act.

On the other hand, I expect them to act ethically. Meaning ethical behaviour is the behaviour that I demand from them.

Like when a parent says to their teenage kid who refuses to study for an exam, "Well I expect you to get an A". They don't expect that, but they do expect that of them.

Maybe these two sorts of "expect" get shorted out when corporations enter the picture? On the other hand, perhaps the expectation of a corporation in both senses really is sociopathic behaviour. All that "duty to the shareholders" crap...

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iamwil 622 days ago | link

Just because it's legitimate doesn't mean it's not asshole-ish.

I could invite you over to my house for dinner, and then ask you to pay for the raw materials after you've eaten. Legitimate, but still asshole-ish.

Legitimate is a low-bar.

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sseveran 622 days ago | link

If Microsoft was the company involved everyone would be crying fowl about how they are a monopoly and this is the ultimate evil.

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SoftwareMaven 622 days ago | link

This is exactly how Microsoft behaved in the 90s.

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dasil003 622 days ago | link

You mean if this was 10 years ago. I haven't heard anyone use Microsoft and monopoly in the same sentence for years.

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protomyth 622 days ago | link

The phrase has a bit of renewed meaning with the Windows 8 Hardware Certification and its affect on open source / free operating systems.

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ThomPete 622 days ago | link

But not very constructive.

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ryguytilidie 622 days ago | link

wait, what? how?

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zcvosdfdgj 622 days ago | link

Sure.. it is legitimate. But Dalton has the right to say as loudly as he can what Facebook's negotiation tactics are. And other developers have the right to stop developing on the Facebook platform because of it.

It may be legitimate, but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences.

How many developers would continue using Facebook's platform if they knew Facebook would kill their product on a whim?

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taligent 622 days ago | link

> How many developers would continue using Facebook's platform if they knew Facebook would kill their product on a whim?

Those exact words have been uttered about both Microsoft and Apple in the past. Both have been wildly successful. At the end of the day developers will follow where the money is and absorb the risk.

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taligent 622 days ago | link

> supposed business infrastructure provider

Sorry but I don't think you know what those words mean.

People who do, know that the business of an infrastructure providers revolves around SLAs and contracts.

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WiseWeasel 621 days ago | link

Ad publishers and public communications media are marketing infrastructure.

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