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First Zynga insider trading lawsuit filed (venturebeat.com)
36 points by vtry 1635 days ago | hide | past | web | 14 comments | favorite

I don't know how much water this will hold as those gentlemen had to announce before hand they were going to sell stock. The bigger lawsuit should be with the fact that Zynga issued positive guidance. The officers should be held accountable for explicitly deceiving to their shareholders.

Is there anyone on HN that's actually surprised at how Zynga turned out? I mean really shocked and surprised? Or even surprised at these accusations of insider trading? Pincus was known for doing shady even illegal things just to make money. Famous for saying "I did every horrible thing in the book, too, just to get revenues right away." and I don't mean to repeat myself over and over but let's not forget, most of Zyngas games were clones, flat out clones, of other people's IP. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-zynga-is-just-like-micros... , then there was the Tiny Tower theft. The whole company was built on screwing other people over for money. So the insider trading accusation fits quiet well with the company culture.

Even if they're cleared of insider trading, we'll all assume it was because they were good liars. It's hard to trust Pincus after everything's he's done and said. Insider trading sounds exactly like something he would do.

The sad part about all this is that Mark Pincus is intelligent and capable. If he wasn't such a bitch to green paper I think he could have built something truly amazing and earned his place in startup history alongside Zuckerberg. He had the intelligence but the soul of an animatronic robot. If being a heartless, emotionless, immoral, profit-extremist worked, there'd be no need for Human CEOs because robots programmed to be "dicks" would have taken over companies.

Moral of the story: Money is not the goal. It's the result of achieving a goal.

> Moral of the story: Money is not the goal. It's the result of achieving a goal.

There is a theory that luck (openness to opportunity) has a bigger hand in who makes a fortune than anything else.

There are those (Pincus) who feel that you make your own luck, and are willing to cut corners... after all, history books are written by the winners, and all.

About robots - what do you think HFT algorithms are?

Socrates rendered the lesson thus, and I agree with you both:

"I tell you that virtue is not given by money, but that from virtue comes money and every other good of man, public as well as private."

I see your Socrates and raise you a Benjamin Franklin: "Do well by doing good." In other words, make money through businesses that make people's lives better. That really is the point/goal/aspiration of Capitalism, but some people try to make money through the backdoor of cheating, amorality, etc.

Let's break it down: Zynga is a company created for the sole purpose of abusing simple people psychologically to make them part with their money. (This does not make the entire employee pool evil. They employ hundreds of actually good people. Most of them stay good. Some buy into the kool-aid and become toe-the-line shadow puppets of evil though.)

If manipulating people is your primary focus day in and day out for years, it can make you unbalanced. You begin to think you can get away with anything. After all, you've been doing horrible things for years and nobody has stopped you -- heck, most people don't even realize what's happening. It's a short leap to see how they start to elevate their abuse to the level of deceiving and manipulating public markets.

I'm not sure I'd call good they who profit from evil.

One of the things that really troubled me after the financial meltdown was how much people got a pass for saying, "Oh, I didn't know." Even senior people.

I think ignorance is only a real excuse when you've tried to find out what's going on. But as it is, our culture seems to reward people for willful ignorance. That's a dangerous incentive.

I knew a guy who got an offer there straight out of college (well, prior to graduating by a few months, but starting afterward).

He readily admitted to not liking them before he even started; but they offered him a percentage increase on his next highest offer...

I am sure not all employees there are like him, but the ones that are should hardly be considered innocent.

Some of them probably think they can single handedly change the culture.

Maybe so. I think your standard engineer would rather stay out of that sort of thing, but who knows.

They hire a lot of tech oblivious people too (artists, designers, animators, copywriters, ..., pizza delivery guys turned SEO/SEM/SMEs) who don't deserve to be screwed over by sociopathic management.

TBH, every time I think of Zynga employees I think of that discussion in Clerks where they discuss contractors that went to work on the Death Star. That discussion is directly applicable here. There are good people working at Zynga, but they cast their lot in with Zynga, choosing to accept the salary, stock and options offered. They knew the risk. They knew what kind of company they went to work for. The upside on the stock was great because the executives were effective mercenaries. They failed to take into account the downside due to the fact that those executives were effective mercenaries.

I once worked for a guy who turned out to be a scumbag willing to screw anyone out of a dollar. Once I realized that I left because although there was financial upside there, I also knew there was risk of being dicked over eventually by him as well.

If you don't own a controlling share of equity and the owners think short term, then you really can't be surprised when something happens with the cap table, valuations and offers that dicks you over as a minority shareholder.

I recall back in the day that many people were offered X number of stocks without ever understanding what percent that raw number of stocks/options represented. That was a massive sign that rank-and-file employees would be among those they are willing to dick over.

I don't understand your argument. Zynga gets paid to deliver entertainment. Why is that any more evil than television? They are both addictive and carefully programmed to maximize viewership.

There's an entire casino gaming industry on this planet that operates on the same principles: part people and their money with any tactic you can think of. And I've worked in this industry.

I never saw a figurehead that I could classify as evil or unbalanced. Maybe because the market was legit, maybe because everyone - manufacturers, house and players - knew the score. There was also enough legal protection and patenting so that if an idea or concept was stolen, there would be a price to pay.

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