Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Samsung Outsells iPhone, Breaks Shipping Records (mashable.com)
110 points by neya on July 28, 2012 | hide | past | favorite | 127 comments

Samsung vs. Apple feels like the Yankees vs. Red Socks or insert your favorite sports teams. Instead of rooting for your favorite sports team, you're rooting for your favorite phone manufacturer or tech company.

Also, shipped vs. sold makes any time a company brags on how many phones they shipped very misleading. Many companies are famous for channel stuffing to get the PR boost and to "fake it til they make it".

In Samsung's case, the sell through rate is probably pretty high, but still nowhere near as accurate as when Apple says how many devices they sold (as Apple only has 5 days inventory at any given time, Samsung probably maintains months of inventory).

Samsung vs. Apple feels like the Yankees vs. Red Socks or insert your favorite sports teams. Instead of rooting for your favorite sports team, you're rooting for your favorite phone manufacturer or tech company.

I find the fanboy oneupsmanship from both "sides" highly tedious. As if someone can't praise both Apple and Samsung.

Both Apple(1) and Samsung(2) appear release the source code for their products, so it is amazing in a way that the two market leaders in mobile are so open.

(1) http://opensource.apple.com/

(2) http://opensource.samsung.com/index.jsp

Some of us have tried both and prefer Samsung, fwiw.

Some of us have tried both and prefer Apple, fwiw.

Some of us have tried neither but by god I will tell you my opinion!

Sme of us have tried both and love 'em both. Galaxy Nexus phone and iPad is a hard to beat combination in my opinion.

Samsung probably maintains months of inventory

Given how quickly the models iterate, I'd be surprised if this was the case.

Actually, given how much modern management likes JIT production and loathes tying up money in warehouse stock, I'd be very surprised if this was the case. The primary reason for sales pipeline reports is to figure out what you need to build for them.

Apple is the new Microsoft. They license and charge fees for everything. They coerce their users to use their proprietary technologies whenever humanly possible. They try to bully their opponents rather than competing on merit.

I, for one, am happy with these trends.

Nope. The old Microsoft was described by Bill Gates famous motto: "A computer on every desk and in every home, all running Microsoft software."

They wanted to rule the world. This was never ever Apples philosophy. Not with the Mac, not with iOS. They don't aspire a 99% market share, they are even content with 10% and indeed are deliberately limiting themselves in their product range. They don't want and can't reach every demographic. It is also noteworthy that not many services/products of Apple are subsidized. It was classic Microsoft to use their Windows/Office money machine to enter different segments and outcompete others.

> they are even content with 10%

Doesn't sound like it when they constantly go suing the heck out of competitors - not for their money but for excluding them out of the marketplace. Microsoft at least allows competition to exist if they pay up reasonably.

The competition to which you refer, in this context was proven in the court of law to have infriged on Apple's copyrights. Thus the suit. Apple allows plently of competition when they aren't blatently stealing.

Both the UK and German courts said no to Apple trying to ban Samsung products. Only in the USA where Apple can manage to patent anything ridiculous are they gaining some traction with their injunctions. If you manage to patent so much that no one else can make another phone or tablet it speaks again about them wanting to totally obliterate the competition. The fact that they are allowed to do so is another, separate issue but what Apple is pulling isn't anything near being content.

Infringed Apple's copyrights? Citation needed. I thought it was patents?

Samsung is competing for the same 10%. Apple would be happy if Samsung made a different device for a different market.

"they are even content with 10%"


Then who's the new Apple? And what does that make Microsoft?

You are an idiot. Apple releases the source code to much of their technology: http://opensource.apple.com/ and http://www.macosforge.org/ and https://www.apple.com/opensource/

Why the personal attack? Just because they release some of their source code does not make them invulnerable from being seen as evil that they are for their perspective technology sector they operate in. And for the consumers for example in form of lawsuits and trying to smoke out their competitors.

I'd guess that it's a tit-for-tat retaliation for the grandfathers rather needless troll. Not excusable, I grant you. Either way, none of the post belong here.

It's sad that we are seeing more of the frankly utterly pointless and puerile posts and articles here. I thought we were all above this pettyness. Alas it appears that I was wrong. Neither party come out of this with any dignity.

They mainly release what they have to. They have been constantly reducing the number of OSS libraries with each new OS X release.

Do you have any statistics to back up that claim?

I had a 2 1/2 year old Droid and was waiting for the iPhone 5. Then 9 days ago I stopped by my local Verizon store and bought the Galaxy S III on an impulse buy after checking out the beautiful 1280x720 pixel display. ( have written about it now being an iPad substitute http://blog.markwatson.com/2012/07/new-cellphone-samsung-gal...)

My wife liked my phone so much that she bought one a few days later.

Awesome phone. I don't think I have ever been as happy with a device.

Another comment: the high resolution display really makes a huge difference for activities like SSH shelling into servers, browsing the web, showing people slide shows, watching Netflix movies, etc.

I actually wish the device were even larger physically with even a higher resolution screen, but I am happy enough with it. I am 6'4" tall, and the Galaxy S III fits really well in my hand. I understand that someone with small hands might not like the phone as much.

I think there are 3 main reasons for it.

1 - It's a fantastic phone. 2 - The Apple faithful already have their 4 and 4Ss. 3 - Ship-jumpers: Apple is pissing a lot of people off.

Just want to reiterate number three. The Apple app review process is seriously dropping the ball for me right now. So much so that I've learned the basics of Android development and ported my core app while waiting for the iOS equivalent to be reviewed. Only thing remaining is to acquire an Android test device, test and submit to Google Play.

The Apple app review process is seriously dropping the ball for me right now.

Same here. 1-2 years ago I released an iPhone app and the review process was quick and fairly simple.

Now, we are on day 8 of waiting for review. Even if we get reviewed today, if we get rejected we're back to another 8+ days of waiting.

I've released about 4 versions of my first app since November. All the 'in review' phases have lasted only a few minutes up to the latest one. It's been in review since early afternoon Thursday (west coast time). Am I about to get my first rejection?

The waiting for review time was 10 days which is longer than I was waiting a couple of months ago although it seems to be normal now.

In my experience, rejections for missing some rule tend to happen very quickly. Not sure about the longer reviews though. Our current app has been in review for 26 hours now, which is the longest I've ever seen one go.

Well maybe you should wait until you've actually gone through the testing process before commenting.

As someone who has experience in having to get apps to run on almost all Android phones it is a very painful experience. Not only do you have the fragmentation between Android versions but there are OEM specific bugs you need to work around. Then comes the fun part of having to support the wide variety of phones.

Trust me you'll be quickly missing the stability and simplicity of iOS development.

I've been developing in android for about a year and have started developing for iphones a few months ago, I'm new to objective-c, and have to say it's probably my least favourite oop of the few I know. The xcode interface is fantastic for first time app creators that are interested in creating some very standard apps, if you're wanting to break out of the norm though, I find xcode quite suffocating. Sure Android does have the headache of designing for multiple devices, but once you get your head writing your layout files manually it's actually pretty straight forward. I've not submitted an app for publishing on iOS yet, but I'm not looking forward to it. even sharing a dev app with buddies is a nightmare using Apples provisioning profile mess.

The iPhone simulator does seem better than its Android counterpart (due to the lack of customization available). Also, how will iPhone apps appear on the iPhone 5 which is likely to have a bigger display? There is nothing in xcode to deal with fitting to multiple device resolutions.

I like objective-c. Message passing and everything that comes along with it leads to some interesting coding opportunities. The real strength of Apple dev though lies in the libraries.

Also, coding for iOS 5+ only makes it a lot easier to write correct code because of things like ARC and weak reference types.

My only problem with Xcode is crashing, but that seems to have mostly been fixed. There is a vim plugin you can use if you prefer those keybindings.

Yea, I said that too at first, and now I really like it. I think it has a steeper earning curve than most OOPL's. There is an elegance to the language; though I would love to see a complete overhaul of the language to support namespaces, and to decrease the overly extensive use of @. Prefixed classes just make everything harder to read, and feels very 80's.

You're right that I haven't experienced the device fragmentation and other less desirable aspects of Android development. However I'm aware of them. And as an iOS developer of 3+ years I'm well aware of the ease of going between the various iOS devices. Hence my decision to pursue Android development speaks even more strongly of just how annoying Apple's review policies and wait times are.

Ok got an Android device and tested my app. While it is a relatively simple app every feature worked perfectly on Android 2.3. Will submit to the app store tomorrow and see the results. Something that really stood out: running the app on the device was unbelievably easy compared to iOS's provising profiles, bundle IDs etc etc.

As someone who has experience in having to get apps to run on almost all Android phones it is a very painful experience.

Would you mind giving some product names? Just curious to understand your perspective.

Don't forget all the dirt cheap Samsung phones that get thrown in with service contracts for free or next to free. Also, don't forget that Apple is still dominating in the profit arena. Apple just reported 8.8 billion USD profits for this quarter, while Samsung reported 5.9 billion USD profits.

>Also, don't forget that Apple is still dominating in the profit arena.

Here's a great graphic to illustrate this point (2nd chart) [1]

[1]: http://www.asymco.com/2012/05/03/the-phone-market-in-2012-a-...

That chart is nearly 6 months old, and the market is changing so rapidly it is no longer true.

Also, if people actually read the whole analysis attached to it, they would see how positive it is about Samsung, not just Apple. To quote:

The new market disruption is evidenced by the shift of fortunes to Apple and Samsung and away from every other device maker.

Additionally, Samsung is now recording record profits, mostly on the back of rapidly increasing sales of profitable phones.

Samsung Electronics Co. said Friday its net profit swelled to 5.2 trillion won ($4.5 billion) in the April-June quarter, a 48 percent jump from a year earlier.


In the second quarter, Samsung's mobile division, which makes smartphones, personal computers and network equipment, contributed 63 percent of Samsung's entire operating profit by generating 4.2 trillion won profit.[1]

It's true that Samsung's entire phone division doesn't have the high margins Apple does (I've heard ~25% for Samsung vs 35% for Apple), but Samsung sells a lot of low-margin phones, which bring in a lot of revenue even if the profit rate isn't as high.

[1] http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jUVFPSfGFp...

If you a shareholder, that graph is music to your ears. If you are a consumer, that graph may be nice or not depending on how rich you are. If you are the kind that prides yourself in owning expensive stuff, the iDevices definitely help with that. If you are driven by aesthetics, it may be adequate value for money. If you prefer freedom the Androids set you free. Is it not awesome that Apple sets a high bar for aesthetics and the competition commoditizes the market. We all win as a consequence.

I see you've been down-voted or no reason. This is one huge problem with Hacker News. Fan-boys will down-vote you for no reason, when you come up with stuff that proves them wrong. Thanks for the link, heads up!

4 - Samsung are taking market share from other Android vendors as well as Apple. 5 - Samsung have many more models than Apple most of which are much cheaper and available on contract a minimal cost to the end user.

6 - Most people who want to buy an iPhone are waiting for the upcoming iPhone 5. Sales generally diminishes before a big release and crosses all bounds to more than cover the past lag within a month of release.

7 - Apple domination in smartphone segment is ending.

False. Apple never dominated to smart phone market. It just dominates the revenues.

So what exactly makes you happy that from now one South Korean company dominates in smartphone segment? Are South Korean companies and their leaders somewhat better, more ethical, more customer friendly than American or European counterparts. Why you all root for Samsung?

Why would it matter what country it's from? Why not have a South Korean company in the lead? I don't really care what countries things are from as long as they are good products, although personally I'd rather see a South Korean company dominating than an American one.

I just root for Android, or rather, for a world that is not dominated by an Apple dictatorship.


Android beat iOS is market share a long time ago. Over all I think Android phones out sell iPhones 2:1.

But what is their lifespan in use? Based on secondhand values I suspect the effective lifespan of the iOS devices is greater and therefore the share in market is greater than the share of sales.

Android is probably the more numerous still but the gap is probably much closer than the sales suggest.

2nd hand sales values do appear to be higher for iOS devices. And in my mind they are usually better built. So I agree the average lifespan may be longer.

But this doesn't mean that good 2nd hand Android devices don't get passed on to family or friends. All the devices in my family whether iOS or Android get passed along. The Android handsets are perfectly fine.

Get a grip on reality man. A world dominated by an Apple dictatorship? They sell computers and phones. It's not a black and white dichotomy where either Android wins and Apple loses, it's just a teensy bit more complex than that.

It is very simple: on every new Apple computer or computing device, by default you can only install software through their App Store. That means they dictate what software gets to run on their computers. I think on Macs you can manually disable that feature and allow installation of software from other sources (analogous to the App Store on Android). But how many non-power users will do that? On iOS that never was an option, and clearly Apple is trying to move in the same direction with their computers. That is a dictatorship.

Whoa! Fight the power, brother!

Apple is enforcing application signatures on the Mac because it's the Right Thing To Do security-wise. Rather than get stuck in a monthly patch-churn cycle like Microsoft is, endlessly releasing Windows fixes for all the sieve-like security holes in every last system library in their OS, Apple is choosing a better, safer, saner way. Vet all the third-party code that runs on the system, or at least force a certificate trail back to abusive or unscrupulous developers.

If you want to run untrusted software on OS X, good for you. Turn off GateKeeper. But requiring developer signatures on native executable code as the default makes too much sense. Arguing otherwise, when there's an easy way for 'power users' to turn off the protection, is elevating the rights of the lazy developer to distribute their code however they like over the rights of non-technical users to enjoy an uncomprimised computer.

I thought Microsoft does the "signed applications" thing for years already. Most vendors don't bother to pay, though.

Not sure what to think about signed apps, I just reject the App Store model. Whether it will become the only way in future OS X versions only time will tell.

This is false. The default setting for Mountain Lion is App Store and signed applications. You can change the setting to allow only App Store or to allow any applications (signed or unsigned).

I just went through signing the app that my company makes (even though, as yet, we don't need to sign because of the way we distribute). It took me the better part of a week to figure it out (mostly because I did something silly in my script), but I now have several scripts that I can use to make sure our next product is signed out of the gate.

Long-time Apple supporters will tell you that Apple is (a) not requiring all apps be bought from the App store and (b) that they are making mistakes with the sandboxing entitlements that are available, causing apps to leave the App store. In my experience, die-hard anti-Apple folks (like you seem to be) prefer to distort and ignore.

How does "signed applications" work - Apple first approves your company? I didn't know about the signed applications, but I am not sure how it changes the gist of it, Apple controlling what gets installed.

Apps leaving the App store - we'll see how that will play out. Who still develops apps for "classcial" computers anyway?

No, Apple doesn't approve your company first. You simply sign up as an individual or as a company and then you get to generate certificates which you can then use to sign any application you want.

And by default, you can simply hold down a shortcut key to open an application and install it anyway without a signature.

So what is the point if Apple doesn't even verify your company?

As for the shortcut keys, I can never remember them.

The point is this: if malware is published using your developer certificate, then Apple can simply revoke the certificate and by default, users won't be able to install or run your applications anymore.

As for the shortcut keys, they're documented, so you don't have to remember them.

As noted by binarycrusader, no approval is necessary. It's just like signing a Windows application (also a damned good idea) and counter-signing it with Microsoft's cert. Both of these things make it so that your app can be flagged if you demonstrate that you're dangerous. The main difference is that Apple has it somewhat easier because they are the CA for the app certs.

As far as who develops apps for "classical" computers…there's a lot of us out there, because they're not going away.

> 7 - Apple domination in smartphone segment is ending.

I don't see any indication it makes grand parent happy or unhappy... Typical fanboy reaction.

I think most people who want to buy an iPhone have already bought an iPhone.

But everyone who have bought an iPhone have to buy a new iPhone one every two years, until they decide to switch platform.

They don't have to. They can keep using an old phone.

I agree with the first two points, but you may be greatly overestimating 3.

It's not just developers. A lot of users really hate Apple's rules and overbearing behavior. Retroactively disabling apps like Airfoil speakers, not allowing routine apps like wi-fi signal strength checkers, not allowing porn, not allowing installing apps outside of the app store... shit like that pisses off warehouse workers and preschool teachers I know.

It's not just the bogus patent suits and insane restrictions on developers that make people dislike Apple. Developers don't like that shit, but are also in a way more inclined to pragmatically overlook it. Real users are often less forgiving.

Firstly, I don't know which preschool teachers you know but I can't imagine many of them caring about a WiFi signal strength checker (it is already built in), porn (iPhone websites already exist and you can put your own videos on the device) or installing apps from outside the app store.

Secondly, you seem to be ignorant of the Cydia App Store where there is a large number of paid apps for the more power users.

Yep, pissing off the odd developer is not going to eat into Apple's handset sales particularly.

I'm not so sure, after all this lawsuit nonsense I've vowed to not buy another Apple product. I can't in good faith support a company that wants to hurt innovation.

Interesting to know what phone you will chose.

Can't be Samsung, HTC or Google since all three are under investigation for anti-competitive behaviour in abusing their FRAND obligations. And as we know common standards are what foster innovation. Can't be Microsoft since it has a long, questionable history.

Meego, Symbian ?

Common standards? Apple?

Who said I was going to buy a phone? I've bought three iPods from Apple in the past as I considered them quality products. I certainly won't be doing that again.

I think you could be seeing a lot of 3a/3b with 3b being that Andriod JB is finally a damn good OS imho. I have been in Apples camp for a long time simply because I thought they had the best device OS combo out there. Honestly, I'm surprised they were able to stay the best combo for as long as they have.

I love competition and can't wait to see what Apple comes up with next.

It's a fantastic phone; unless you care about the odd blue tinge that the display has (seriously, the way it renders flesh tones put me off). The HTC One X has a better display, but otherwise, the Galaxy SIII seems to be a better phone.

Not to mention there are multiple great phones to choose from. Galaxy Nexus and SIII and the ton of S2 variants.

Well said, in a nutshell. And I agree with 3, totally.

Samsung has always sold more phones than Apple. What you're seeing here is that Samsung is managing the featurephone -> smartphone transition better than Nokia.

Slightly off-topic, but Samsung is actually an amazingly well-run company. I've been a Samsung shareholder for 5 years, and they consistently deliver in growth and earnings. It's cool to see them succeeding in the smartphone market.

Samsung Electronics (the division of Samsung that makes the phones) is also about 50% larger than Apple in terms of revenue.

("Samsung" is about 2.5x the size of Apple)

True, but apple is way more profitable.

2011 Samsung revenue: 247 bil 2011 Samsung net income: 18.3 bil

2011 Apple revenue: 108.2bil 2011 apple net income: 33.79bil

Apple is way more profitable. Samsung is a massive company (I don't think many people realize how massive it is). Very interesting to see a real corporate war between the two.

It would be interesting if Samsung C&T built Apple's new HQ building.

The article is misleading. This is not Galaxy S vs iPhone but a comparison of total volume of all smartphones moved by Samsung (many of which are cheap junk) vs total volume of iPhones moved by Apple

How on earth is it misleading? It simply states that Samsung smartphones outsold iPhones which runs the gamut of Apple's smartphone offerings. What other Apple smartphones are there to measure the numbers against?

The title is linkbait. If the article title was honest it would read "Samsung sells more smartphones than Apple". Instead, it implies that Samsung has a top-end smartphone that sells better than Apple's iPhone. Which is not true. If you need confirmation that this is how people are interpreting the headline look no further than many of the comments in this very thread.

Wasn't misleading to me, and shouldn't be to you. I didn't know Samsung had just one top end smartphone, why wouldn't the title say the specific phone if that was the comparison?

>The title is linkbait

You said the 'article' was misleading.

The article refers to one device from Apple vs tens from Samsung. I think it would be fairer to compare with one device, such as their most popular one.

Why would that be fairer? Apple chooses to compete in the market with a clear lineup of 3 device-classes that each have multiple models differing in the amount of memory only. They don't offer low-end models. They obviously think that this is the better strategy. Samsung thinks it is better served by building more models to serve a higher range of customers. It is perfectly fair to compare which strategy fares best - and by number of units sold Samsung seems to be ahead. By revenue, Apple seems to be ahead. Whether that balance is going to tip is an interesting question, but it's not answered in this article.

Unfair would be to compare the number of macs sold vs. the number of android phones sold since those devices don't compete against each other on the same market.

Apple sells the 3GS in the low end market.

Edit: My view may be too US based, but the 3GS costs nothing after carrier subsidy.

The 3GS is apples low end model, that doesn't mean it is low end compared to other models on the market. An 8GB 3GS sells for ~ 370 Euros. That price may be a bargain for that model, but I can buy Samsung phones much much cheaper.

Edit: Response to the parents edit: Yes, your view is US-based. If I buy a phone and get a phone contract without subsidy, my contract is cheaper - up to 10 euros/month. I'd be surprised if that's much different in the US - you always pay for the subsidy in one way or another.

Any phone with a 480x320 screen and free on contract (at least in the US) is low end. The iPhone 4 would be midrange and the 4S would be high but not the highest end.

The 3GS is not free on contract in Germany. Fact is that there are cheaper phones and that may be of importance in markets where the average wage is lower than in the us. And since the article is about world-wide number of devices shipped, that makes a diffence.

In what world are the iPhone 3GS and the iPhone 4 the same device? Completely different hardware that runs the same OS, just like Samsung.

No, I'd rather pick the arbitrary metric of comparing the two lowest end ones.

Or we could compare the end results of two different business strategies.

The title conveys the message perfectly. You are upset about the fact and you want to blame someone for it, this time, the title. Don't worry, time will heal.

Right, my side is losing in revenue, so I pick profit, now it's losing in profit so I pick number of shipped devices, now it's losing in that so I pick activations, or "time using phone per day" or whatever makes me feel good.

This happens all the time when people make Apple / iPhone vs some-Android-manufacturer / Android comparisons - someone from whatever "side" has the lower number always tries to re-frame the competition about being about another metric, as if the whole thing will be done and settled if we only have a number to tell us which is better.

It's not outsold. It's outshipped, and it's outshipping large multiples of SKUs against Apple's.

The article says it's comparing the total volume of phone sales, not just the Galaxy S line.

And you can quite convincingly argue that Apple may come to regret ignoring this segment, just as they did in the heyday of the PC.

But if the total volume of iPhones still includes the three year old 3GS, would it be fair to exclude Samsung's entry line?

In the UK it's £319 for a 3GS. That's still a very expensive phone and you certainly couldn't describe it as entry level.

Samsung sells Android phones from around £89.99 [1] (probably cheaper, that was just a quick search). Depending on how you define 'smartphone' this article could also be including even cheaper (non-android) models at around the £50 mark [2].

[1] http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-mini-s...

[2] http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-mobile-samsung-cht-335-met...

That's true. And there are really cheap ones. But it's not only the Galaxy S and the rest is £90 crap. There are price points and models in between.

If we compare notebook sales between Apple and let's say Dell, do we only count the 1000+ models just because Apple does not sell their notebooks below 1000? We can argue if the 1100 MacBook is as "good" as the 600 Dell, but who cares?

If people buy smartphones for 190 which may be crappy by your/mine/our standard and are happy, so be it. Let's count them.

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is an implication here that Samsung is winning against the iPhone. In reality they are simply selling handsets at price points Apple is not even competing for.

The example you give of Dell vs Apple is a perfect example. Nobody would make the Apple/Dell comparison because it would not be news that more Dell laptops are sold than Apple ones. Whereas this article is trying to make news out of Samsung vs iPhone, due to the fact Samsung has an 'iPhone-like-product'.

It is misleading. Not if you read every word, sit back, process, go all hacker-analytic on it... and consequently realise it's not really news. But if you read the article in the way it appears to have been editorialised, picture of S III, focus on the newer models... the fact the somewhat spurious comparison is even being drawn to begin with, you could be inclined to believe this article is saying 'S III et al are beating the iPhone'.

It's subtle sure, but it ultimately is not an accurate title for the article, and is very easy to misconstrue. A fairer title would be something like: "Samsung is selling handsets to a broader market spectrum than Apple, will this lead to greater profits in the long-run?" - boring title, granted.

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is an implication here that Samsung is winning against the iPhone. In reality they are simply selling handsets at price points Apple is not even competing for.

What an absurd way to frame it...

Companies care about units sold (market share) and profit.

Samsung is winning on units sold, Apple on profit.

Nobody cares about one individual model "winning" over some other, you can't measure that anyway. How many people would have bought an iphone if there was no roughly equivalent $300 samsung available? How many wouldn't have bought a smartphone at all if there was no $300 samsung?

Sure, it is an absurd notion, notice my italics. But that's how people think, they want to know 'which is better'... or argue about it.

>> Nobody cares about one individual model "winning" over some other

The Internet begs to differ.

And what percentage of the sales are the cheap phones vs the expensive ones? You seem to imply that people mostly buy the cheap phones.

Perhaps Apple is simply overpriced, ever thought of that? Prices for electronics are always falling, there is no law of nature that demands high end phones have to cost 800$.

I'm sure Apple would love to sell as many phones as Samsung does. But I'm also sure that Apple would prefer to take 2x the profits on 0.5x the unit sales.

This is why Apple is so concerned about Samsung selling iPhone lookalikes, though. Samsung has the manufacturing and distribution prowess to do some damage, and Samsung has shown themselves to be a better "fast follower" than Microsoft ever was.

With a little help from Google, of course. Imagine if Samsung had to write their own mobile OS.

As someone who owns both an iPhone 4S and a Galaxy Nexus, I can't possibly bring myself to believe that Apple is going to continue making outsized profits in the cell phone market. The Galaxy Nexus is just too good a competitor; Android has gotten so much better. Maybe Apple will find a way to reinvent the smart phone again (a la MBA or iPad to laptop). Barring that, I don't see how they can maintain their dominance.

Profits are what matters, naturally, but I think market share is the writing on the wall here.

So it goes. Company innovates and offers a wonderful new product, makes ridiculous profit, is shamelessly/lovingly ripped off, loses edge, has to come up with the next big thing or die. The story of free enterprise since forever. This time isn't different.

Keep in mind that Apple makes a superior (or at worst equivalent) product, sells it for the same price, and makes 4x the profit.

I agree that market share is a leading indicator, and that Apple's biggest challenge is to run faster than everyone else, while keeping the imitators at bay and not outrunning consumers or the laws of physics.

But they've got some runway due to their efficiencies (and cash). It's not sexy, but it's how Tim Cook earned his job, and I don't think anyone at Apple is confused about any of the above. :)

They did. It's called Bada. And it's terrible.

But they're a great hardware company.

> They did. It's called Bada. And it's terrible.

Actually many people in Germany seem to like it.

Well, Apple released the 4S last October, Samsung had a couple new devices. It's exactly like last year. "Lackluster performance" - such words come from people which parrot people who appear to be experts, but have not even a basic idea of how Apple operates.

The pattern can be seen and you only have to add 2+2.

Revenues will get further down this quarter, leading up to the iPhone release and the holiday quarter will break all records again.

It will be interesting to see how Apple will stand next to Samsung after that quarter.

... Meanwhile Samsung will continue releasing more phones quicker, and by the time the record selling iPhone 5 settles down, Samsung will be chugging along, breaking their own records and out selling pretty much everyone.

Samsung caters to the needs of almost every segment. In India they have hugely popular dual SIM (It's a big deal in India) Android phones. I'm sure there will never be a dual SIM iPhone ever. Samsung phones are available even in remote villages , but iPhones are only available in cities. Apple will have to improve their distribution and variety to appeal to new users. So , this trend will only accelerate

Out of interest why does dual SIM matter in India?

In case of my wife, she has a private phone number only for friends & family and another one strictly official. There are many uses ,

* If she leaves her job she can give the SIM back to the company and won't get anymore calls on that

* Separate billing. Company pays for official calls only

* Switch On/off one SIM or other when required

The other use is for bargain hunters. There are so many operators to choose from. The ones with wider coverage are expensive and the others are dirt cheap . So the cheaper one is usually used for making outgoing calls when the signal strength is good. The expensive ones are used for incoming calls (which is free in India. Here calling party pays) or even for outgoing calls when the other one has poor signal.

Carrying 2 phones is expensive/inconvenient . So most of the feature phones come with 2 SIM slots in India. Smartphones are now catching up

While Apple wasting money on lawyers and law suites trying to ban sales of old Samsung devices, Samsung is spending money on innovation, production of new and increasingly better devices. And surprise surprise - Samsung is capturing more market than Apple! I for one am never buying anything from Apple until they stop this bullshit anticompetitive behavior and start to innovative instead of litigating.

Astounding, new phone model outsells old one about to be replaced soon!

edit: Still, 50M is more than the 37M iPhones Apple sold in the iPhone 4S release quarter.

I believe it is the first time Samsung outsells the iPhone by such a large factor (2x).

Well, the iPhone 4s was compared in a similar fashion too, when it was launched. One phone model is always going to be replaced by another, at some point in time, so by all means it IS a fair comparison =)

So, with your snark, are you admitting that high end Android phones and iPhones have reached parity, or just that iOS users are leaving for fairer pasturers?

I find the attempts at derision of people gaining on Apple highly humorous.

Is it not more that Nokia and HTC users are making the jump to Samsung? They'd get a superior model (and there are many Samsung models around at various price brackets) and get to keep their apps.

Does anyone have any Android vs iOS vs WP7 stats for the last quarter?

Does anyone have any Android vs iOS vs WP7 stats for the last quarter?


In millions[1]:

Samsung: 93.0

Nokia: 83.7

Apple: 26.0

Smartphone sales are more difficult to come by, but Gartner has platform stats for the latest quarter. I have to guess most of these from a chart republished in The Guardian[2]:

Android: 56%

iOS: ~25%

Symbian: ~12%

Blackberry: ~8%

WinPhone: ~2%

[1] http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/07/27/samsung-grabs-record...

[2] http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/16/android-sma...

I would be curious to those stats as well; here (EU) I see only iPhones & S2+S3 phones. Besides the odd poster here on HN I know no-one who actually likes his/her wp7 phone and all people I knew well who got one brought it back to the shop to trade for an s2 or s3. So i'm also wondering if those sales figures include that; phones which were brought back; I assume they appear in the stats as 'sold phones' right?

I'm mostly complaining about pointless comparisons that only serve to support linkbait headlines.

I truly don't understand why people consider this 'news'. Has Apple given some indication that they want to own 100% of the smartphone market, and that every potential smartphone customer should be an Apple customer? I do not think they have, but I also don't follow these things obsessively.

If you want to bring up the patent lawsuits, I do not personally believe Apple is opposed to competition, they are just opposed to that competition 'stealing' what they feel (rightly or wrongly) that they have invented.

Apple cares about Samsung only to the extent they believe all or part of Samsung's success is built on infringing Apple patents.

Applications are open for YC Summer 2021

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact