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Send someone you appreciate an official 'Continue and Persist' Letter (continueandpersist.org)
1414 points by adnanaga 15 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 224 comments
Every day, thousands of Cease and Desist letters are issued, telling people to stop what they’re doing (Looking at you, David Chang). What a bummer!

That’s why we created: The Continue and Persist Letter. A official-looking legal letter that encourages and uplifts people, one that tells people to keep doing what they’re doing! Surprise someone you appreciate by sending them a Continue and Persist Letter.




> A official-looking legal letter [...] Surprise someone

Having received actual legal letters before, my personal experience is that I would much rather receive normal looking holiday cards to encourage me in continuing whatever I was doing, rather than being surprised by official-looking letters.

It might be different if this service offered help in other ways, but currently it seems like a practical joke of dubious taste.


I agree. I would rephrase it „send someone you appreciate and that you wish had a mild heart attack this official looking letter“


Depends. I would be spooked and frightened but then I would be delighted.


It reminds me of jokes where the inoffensive ones tend to be less funny than the borderline too offensive ones. Where you think: I shouldn't be laughing about that.


Yeah, rather dark lawyer humor, I guess. No thanks.


Yeah. It is one of those kind of things where one might think that the recipient will first carefully read the letter and then form an opinion on it.

But in reality people will form an emotional response just based on the appearance of it. And even after they read it they might be left perplexed and some might spend further resources to figure out if this is a legal threat in some way.

I would find such a letter in incredibly bad taste, and think of whoever sent it to me or caused it to be sent worse than before.


It really depends upon you knowing the recipient. I've got a friend with whom, over the years, I've exchanged many a "legal" demand letter back and forth. It's a running joke that we have, and it's pretty fun and funny. But, yeah, there are plenty of other friends who I would terrify if I sent them something official looking.


No, it doesn't rely on you knowing the recipient. If I got this letter from someone I didn't know, I would enjoy it.

Is it worth the risk that someone would find it "incredibly bad taste" (parent post, not yours)? Obviously humour is subjective, but perhaps such people need to have their Sense of Humour shifted, Overton-window style.


> No, it doesn't rely on you knowing the recipient.

The point is not that you need to know the recipient, but that if you don’t know them you can’t say if they will enjoy this kind of humour or not.

I know people for whom such a letter would be the highlight of their day. I know people who would be worried about it for days if not weeks. Without knowing your audience you can’t know who will react how.

> Is it worth the risk that someone would find it "incredibly bad taste" (parent post, not yours)?

Is it? Depends on how much you care how much you care about being an asshole accidentally.

I have friends who we play pranks on each other where we sneak up on the other and do a jumpscare. Would never do the same with a random person though.

This is the equivalent action, but instead of threatening people with bodily harm it is threatening them in a legal/bureaucratic way.

> Obviously humour is subjective

Yes.

> perhaps such people need to have their Sense of Humour shifted, Overton-window style

Or maybe your sense of empathy needs adjusting. The problem is not with their sense of humour but with their sense of “how likely it is that an official looking letter is bringing ruin on me”. I’m glad that you feel secure enough that you can’t even understand that feeling.


On a few occasions I’ve called the phone number on a professional vehicle’s “how’s my driving?” bumper sticker to report the driver for good driving. It’s always a fun experience.


Amazing idea. I’m sure the person on the line is… not used to this.

I remember one time having a super helpful person at Home Depot walk me through a home project I needed some advice on so I asked to talk to their manager to compliment/thank them.

After a few minutes the manager came over and looked so ready for me to berate them about something only to look incredibly shocked that I was actually complimenting the service I had just received. Was nice for everyone.


I’ve done this a few times in the past as well. But I found it’s less stressful for everyone if you preface it first like, “You’ve been really helpful. Can I tell your manager or mention you in a survey or something?” (Note: direct managers at stores don’t always have the ability to do much to reward good employees and it might be more helpful to fill out a survey or something that corporate sees.)


I would be worried about angering the manager if they learned that this super-helpful employee spent half an hour chit-chatting with a customer instead of doing other tasks. Kinda like how agents are under time pressure in call centers.


That's quite nice of you, though I don't think it is as rare as you suspect. My son works retail as a supervisor and his report is that, while complaints are the main reason customers escalate to him, he does reasonably frequently also get customers who want to compliment an employee.


I've thought about doing that kind of thing but always worry that it might end up hurting them if the company has some kind of binary "number of complaint line phone calls" metric for each employee.

I've heard too many horror stories about employees/stores getting punished when you give them 4 out of 5 stars since (according to upper management) it implies that something was less than perfect.


I once hit one star by accident so I called back and navigated multiple transfers back to the same call center's manager to let them know it was intended to be five stars. Everyone I spoke to seemed quite charmed as it had never happened before.


I often give drivers a thumbs up when they are careful around bikes. German drivers are especially wary of cyclists, and I'm often surprised by how constantly they look out for me.


Be careful there! You need only one idiot to become a meat in a wheelchair. It’s my personal data point. Luckily it was only very close call. I can walk, run and dance again.


Which is why I am grateful for decent drivers. There’s a reason I don’t ride motorcycles anymore though!


I’ve done that in bad weather. The professional drivers will keep the speed over the passes. I love reporting this. I’ve seen so many people drive in the ice and snow like it’s dry pavement and end up crashed.


I've tried similar things and the person on the other end isn't interested. I'm bothering / interrupting them by trying to call in and praise someone. They're not being incentivized to take praise calls.


I have done this and was told that the driver gets a safe driving certificate. (I was specifically calling because I had watched a semi prevent an accident by turning on their flashers and blocking lanes)

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When working with technicians I like to tell them and their manager that they’re doing a great job, 5/5 stars. I usually also throw in that whatever they’re being paid, it’s not enough.


The customer service people at 1-800-EAT-SHIT laughed at me when I did that. Then they sold me some of my own "Don't like my driving? Call 1-800-EAT-SHIT!" bumper stickers.


I do the same at restaurants; ask to see the manager then tell them that my server has been extraordinary (when they have been). I try not to do this when it's obviously busy, etc. I also don't try to fool them with a stern "see your manager" demand then trick them.


I once called the "send us your ideas" feedback hotline of a highway station, suggesting this and that. The person on the phone was like "ok... but do you have complains? why are you even suggesting ideas?"


— Alright, I’d like to also lodge a complaint.

— Now we’re talking. What is it?

— I want to complain you’re not taking my suggestions seriously.


I should start doing this. Fine idea


This reminds me of how my father (a lawyer) sent fake subpoenas to invite people to his brother's bachelor party. Most found it hilarious but it freaked a few people out. I suspect that this would have the same problem.


I remember in college (early 00s when music piracy was huge) someone set up a site where you could enter an email and it’d send them a fake letter from the RIAA about the downloading they were doing.

Sent one to my college roommate and sat quietly while he got home from class and checked his email. He obviously started panicking until the link in the email revealed the joke. He didn’t think it was funny and swore cold blooded revenge that I’ve yet to receive. Still keep one eye open at night.


> swore cold blooded revenge that I’ve yet to receive. Still keep one eye open at night.

You’re receiving it right now. It’s the uncertainty, the uneasiness you have to carry with you every day, that is the revenge.


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even if that were true, do you want to be the person to trigger that for them? i don't.

in general i think the issue is simpler tho. comedy is just subjective, not everyone enjoys the same stuff


Nah, for normal people, getting a legal looking letter is nerve wracking.


Howdy. I'm someone who's been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I have panic attacks somewhat regularly, I take medication, I've done therapy in the past, etc.

Just to clear up what I perceive as a misconception - it almost sounds like you're suggesting people prone to anxiety have neglected to reflect on that, like they're just being lazy about it out something.

Buddy, I know I have anxiety. I know about the traumatic experiences I had in the past, and my family history, that contribute to my condition. I've reflected on it plenty.

"Working through it" doesn't do what you think it does. It's not a cure. What you learn to do is understand the patterns of thought you get into, to recognize when you're falling into an unhealthy pattern, and tools that you can deploy to manage that situation.

It's more like managing hazardous waste than flicking a light switch. I wish it were otherwise!


Depends what someone does for a living. If you deal with lawyers often you might have more emotional baggage seeing one.


And if you don't have much experience with lawyer letters, you have heard enough to want to avoid them usually.


Not really. For most people, nothing good ever comes with such letters.


As a business owner, I can tell you certain letters have a look to them before opened and can trigger anxiety and “heart skip a beat.” A letter looking like its from a law firm is going to trigger concern and even calling an attorney. Not fun to then have the rug pulled out. Reminds me of the terrible pranksters who worry people and then say “it’s just a prank.”


When I owned a small business every letter from the IRS, no matter how benign, was nightmare inducing.

Never got anything serious from them as most were “we’ve update some random piece of info on your profile” notifications, but still made me nervous every time.


Same! I regularly get address change notifications from the IRS in duplicate despite nothing visible changing about the address.


Wouldn't anything really, really legal be recorded delivery?


from experience - no. Requests for more info (the precursors), reassessment notices (the nightmares), bills (the consequences)


Really? I think most people get plenty of benign letters from law firms. I do for things like consumer class action lawsuits I’m eligible to join, and stuff related to getting paid for things I invented….


I am pretty sure you are a outlier.

"stuff related to getting paid for things I invented…."


It's a clever concept, but I'm leery of having someone send a letter on my behalf to someone.

You all haven't trademarked the idea, have you? I think I'll just write a few of these up myself and send them out.


> I'm leery of having someone send a letter on my behalf to someone.

Agreed. I don’t know what other junk mail will be included, nor how my recipient’s data will be used.


or... maybe this is just a fun side project they whipped up as a joke? Some side project for a resume?

Just look at OP's comment history, one example:

> I absolutely love making chrome extensions - my very first one was creating an extension for tinder.com that would swipe left on anyone with the first name Chad

All they require here is your name and email, and the recipient's name and address. Both are (probably) public somewhere and in combination are almost certainly still worthless (or certainly worth less than the postage they're giving to you for free)


Why not just make a pdf or a copy paste version? I get suspicious when extra work is done to make worse ux; my assumption is that it rarely happens without a hidden incentive.


OP here - We just wanted to make it easier on folks to send out! We just posted the template on the site now if people want to write their own!


I think part of the package is the official-looking envelope from the LLP, transparent window and all.

It won't have the same effect if you just download a PDF, print it out, and mail it in a generic envelope with a handwritten address on it.


Fair enough, although I'd love to see that as an upsell instead.


I'm not sure if they changed it after your comment, but right now there is clearly two options. One where you can get a google doc and just use theirs as a template, and one where they send it for you.


Yes! We added it in later so people could make their own!


<3


Not all of us have printers, for a start.


Yep. I definitely don't really like friends handing my residential address to third parties to mail me stuff without my consent. They can mail me stuff directly if they want though.


Like sending you gifts via Amazon? Or exposing your address when then send any mail at all? Your address is public record this seems like not something you need to concerned about.


> Your address is public record

No they are not. I don't know why you and people keep telling me this. You can try to look up my address and if you're doing it on the internet with some stupid private, non-governmental institutions and data brokers that collected data without my consent, you're likely to only find a bunch of addresses associated with my name that are NOT actually where I live.


I honestly feel a little creeped out when someone gives out my address to Amazon without my consent, even if it is to send me a gift. Even though Amazon already has my address, this feels different somehow and crosses a small boundary.


I don’t feel creeped out at all. Please send gifts. But if you think someone might feel weird, the name you use doesn’t need to be real. I send my stepmom things addressed as Nana. You can also use random dumb names like Birthday Boy Dave or Donkey Face Smith.


Unsolicited gifts from a big mega-corps like Amazon are creepy, while unsolicited gifts from small businesses like Bad Dragon are cool.


I feel the reverse, actually. Small businesses probably store personal info in a random Excel file on someone's USB drive and are much more likely to have a data leak that actual bad guys can get a hold of. Amazon is a big mega-corp but their database security is decent and random employees can't just access it for no reason, and doing so would likely leave a trail.


sure, name and address aren't worth much alone. but they get more valuable if you can associate other bits of information with them. surprising insights can be gained by joining a bunch of seemingly innocuous facts about a person. usually this just means they see more relevant ads, but occasionally it leads to being targeted for scams and other nasty things.

the tinfoil hat probably isn't warranted in this case, but as a general principle, I try to let my friends make their own decisions around privacy.


Good idea. Elsewhere in the comments, user kynetic mentioned that their terms include:

> We may share Your information with Our business partners to offer You certain products, services or promotions.

Which somewhat takes the shine off this in my opinion.

(That, and also: How hard is it to post a letter yourself?)


Also, I don't actually have a physical mailing addresses for people I would like to send something like this to, like maintainers for my favorite open source projects.


Express your support for Free Software maintainers and contributors by participating in the "I Love Free Software" Day: https://fsfe.org/activities/ilovefs/index.en.html


True, this service doesn't solve every one of humanity's problems. But even if you just get inspired to do something similar by email, or however else you can contact a maintainer, then it's had some success for you.


Trademarked the idea?

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

I'm not OP, and I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure you're free to try this concept for yourself.

Three ways to protect IP

Trademark is for logos and names Parents are for methods and inventions Copyright is for works of art and writing

They might be able to trademark the phrase "continue and persist", but it's not likely. If they had they would have put a little TM or (r) next to it.

It's not sufficiently original to qualify for copyright protection.

And it's so far from being patentable I hope I don't have to explain why.


In the US:

- a trademark may be claimed with TM even if not registered. A trademark registered with, and accepted by, USPTO should use circle R.

- these folks hold the copyright on their specific letter. Avoid infringement (and potential negative legal ramifications) by not reproducing their letter. This is not limited to photocopying a physical paper. Retyping verbatim will infringe.

- the concept itself cannot be protected with existing (US) intellectual property law.


To complete the legal analysis a bit more rigorously, mostly because I’m drunk and bored on Thanksgiving:

- The service name “continue and persist” is probably trademarkable by them if they wanted (assuming it’s not already in use). And as you point out, formal registration wouldn’t be necessary, although it does come with various benefits. Doing so could block someone from creating a similar service with the same or confusingly similar name.

- For copyright, reproduction doesn’t have to be verbatim to infringe. The standard is typically substantial similarity. So you couldn’t just change a few words here or there in the letter.

- Publicly disclosed concepts can be protected under US law, but you have to go through patent law. Haven’t done a prior art search, but seems unlikely that there’s much patentable here. There is also the section 101 (abstract idea) issue, but that is hard to evaluate without looking at the exact patent claims at issue.


> And it's so far from being patentable I hope I don't have to explain why.

I would say the same thing about a lot of things the USPTO has handed out patents for. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if someone could obtain a patent for this, if the patent application was written the right way. Whether such a patent would hold up in court is an entirely different question.


So, I had a emoji in my original post that indicates a joke around the trademark comment, and I didn't realize HN automatically strips those out.

I appreciate the clarification in this and the comments below, but yeah, it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

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Pro tip: Send it to Nintendo with a picture of Mario to receive a Cease and Desist letter in exchange.


Real


Cool idea! It sounds like you're offering it for free, with the option for a donation. How are you going to deal with the influx of what I imagine will be hundreds of free requests? Won't that get pretty expensive fast?


The pessimist in me says this is the regular old "If it's free, then you're the product" situation.

This seems like a clever way to collect valid mailing addresses. People are also likely to include personal information in their praise messages, which could be valuable data.

Their Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy state they reserve the right to share collected information with service providers, business partners, and affiliates. They can use your data for "other purposes" including "data analysis" and "identifying trends." They can share your information with "business partners to offer you certain products, services or promotions."


The terms look like boilerplate that only addresses "your" data--not the information you enter about the target. If they end up selling the addresses/names/activities of unwilling participants, their "don't sue us" clause from the video may not hold up in court.*

*ianal


Aren’t there data dumps freely available online with contact information for pretty much anyone? In that context, why would the data from this small project have any monetary value?


It wouldn't. This site just has a strong bias towards reactionary yum yuckers.


OP here - There will be a lot we won’t be able to get to Hahahh but we want to try and send out as many as we can!


Well that's super lame.

A USPS Forever Stamp is $0.73. Unless yall are rolling in VC funds or a lot of extra cash, a few hundred or even thousand orders is going to nuke the entire idea.

Are you still going to harvest and use all of the collected data of people who never got anything mailed?


What's stopping you from just... sending a letter or a postcard? Benefits:

1. It comes from your heart.

2. You don't leak PII to internet randos.

3. It shows you put some thought into it.

4. Writing letters is fun, and the post office needs all the help and support it can get. While you're at it, why don't you give THOSE folks some praise, too?

5. A personalized letter doesn't look like something official and frightening. Seriously, you're underestimating how many people this is going to unnecessarily scare, at a time when our institutions are failing more and more.

Maybe we don't need to automate away every last bit of being human.


I tried to donate the $3 but Ko-Fi won't let you donate less than $5. I'm trying to donate the $5 but the blue Pay Now button does literally nothing. Will try again later :) Please continue.


Same. It seems like the Ko-Fi platform won't let me select any payment method.

Thank you for running this service! I'll pay it forward when things recover.


Continue and…?


[flagged]


wut


It’s a play on words. It helps to break it down into syllables. Each group answers one of the patient’s questions

Cont In ue Per sist


I have found postcards to be a great way to send encouragement, sympathy notes, or thank-you notes.

The small space on the post card for writing means you can usually only fit a few sentences in (keeping the time investment short) and you don't even need to fold up the letter into an envelope. You can start with a few post cards bought from a gift shop, and if you like the habit, you can get themed boxes of 100 postcards from an online retailer for $20. (e.g. birds, or cats, or Disney Princesses).


It would be nice to have a pdf copy of the letter downloadable for those who are outside of the USA.


Just added it to the site!


That's their moat.


Love the idea!

But! I don't love the idea of sending PII for friends and family to an unknown source in order to facilitate this.

You can ask your friendly neighborhood LLM for a template and go to town!

"I'd like to create a positive spin on "Cease & Desist" letters for the holidays that I could send to friends. Let's call them a "Continue & Persist" letter.

How can I make something cute and uplifting that I could send to friends for the holidays. I guess I need some personalization options like name, and one thing I'd like them to continue doing (optional).

Can you help me create an official looking, but fun form letter that I can fill in the send to people? Thank you!"

---

[Your Name or Family Name]

Department of Holiday Joy & Encouragement

[Your Address or City, if desired]

[Date]

OFFICIAL NOTICE

Re: Continue & Persist Order

Dear [Recipient's Name],

In the spirit of the holidays and in recognition of your outstanding contributions to the world, the Department of Holiday Joy & Encouragement has issued this Continue & Persist order for you.

This order officially requires you to continue being your amazing self and persist in spreading joy and kindness throughout the year. Please note the following specifics of your order:

1. You must continue to [something wonderful they do, e.g., make everyone laugh, inspire others, or bake the best cookies]. Your efforts in this area have been truly exceptional and have brought countless smiles.

2. Under no circumstances are you to cease being the incredible [friend/parent/artist/etc.] that you are.

3. This order is valid indefinitely and cannot be revoked (even if you try to protest with modesty).

Failure to comply with this order will result in an overflow of love, gratitude, and probably more letters like this one.

We at the Department of Holiday Joy & Encouragement commend your contributions to making life brighter and sincerely hope you have the happiest of holidays.

Warm regards,

[Your Name or Family Name]

Director of Holiday Cheer


This is pretty good! An LLM is actually the right tool to generate this kind of copy that demands a given style but is ultimately soulless.


"...And here is a magnet pin with the logo of the company, to fix this letter on your fridge at home if you want, so your children and partner can read it also". That would be chef kiss


"A happy person tells one; an unhappy person tells nine."

Little efforts like this help even things out


In 2024, Chang's company, Momofuku, drew criticism after sending cease and desist notices over the use of their trademark "chili crunch."[65] In a statement to the Los Angeles Times, Momofuku argued that the trademark was not intended to stifle any competition surrounding the sauces, stating that "When we created our product, we wanted a name we could own and intentionally picked 'Chili Crunch' to further differentiate it from the broader chili crisp category."[66]

On April 12, 2024, Chang issued a public apology regarding the issue on his podcast, The Dave Chang Show, stating that Momofuku had not intended to upset with their legal actions, and noted that Momofuku would no longer attempt to enforce the trademark.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chang


How does this relate to the topic?


> How does this relate to the topic?

The person you responded to is providing additional context regarding David Chang. His name might not be familiar to readers as someone who is famous for sending large volumes of cease and desist letters.

He is mentioned in the very first sentence of this HN post:

> Every day, thousands of Cease and Desist letters are issued, telling people to stop what they’re doing (Looking at you, David Chang). What a bummer!


This. I never heard of him so I looked him up on Wikipedia. My assumption was that many of you hadn't either.


if it's free, you're the product, better yet, you're giving away your friends and families adresses for free. I like the idea though^^ might send a few on my own


I think the rules are you have to put a Show HN: in the title when you self post


I don’t think that’s a rule, but it does give you a better chance of being noticed because it goes on the show list.


They're also downranked a little, IIRC.


Show HNs aren't downranked.


Oh, thanks for the clarification! No idea why I thought that...

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Yes, but, they admit they’re not lawyers :’ )


Love the idea, it's similar to the formal letters of http://www.bureauofcommunication.com/


No thanks. Receiving an "official-looking" letter would only make me anxious.


This is brilliant. This is one of the best things I’ve seen all year.

My father was diagnosed with liver cancer about a month ago, and I have had a rough time of it since. I needed this positivity in my life.

Thank you for reminding me of the good in the world; sometimes we all need a dose of that.

If I can buy you guys beers, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I’d love to help build some future boondoggles. :)

Email is in my profile. (The irony of my domain being owlpost.lol is not lost on me haha)


What a brilliant idea! It's a shame this is USA-only - would be nice to get that added to the HN title.

I can see why they would have this restriction, but there IS a payment option, so they could offer it with whatever feels is required. Still, all the best US cousins!


I got so excited, already started to fill out a form to send the letter to my friend who recently got diagnosed with breast cancer and after they removed it they find that it had already spread, and since she's business oriented person, I'm sure she would appreciate this.

But guess what, it's US only, again...

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I have to say I'd be absolutely delighted to receive a letter like this. Not just the indicator that I'm doing something right (already huge for me, given the degree to which I struggle with people pleasing), but also the humor and extra care/time involved. Feels like it would strike enough of the right nerves to be quite moving even. Definitely agreeing with others that we could use more of this in the world (well, I could definitely use more of it, at least.)


As a startup founder, my journey is super lonely.

There is seldom a flutter of thanks—-rarely does anyone come to me saying, “Splendid!”

Yet, the day continues, operated by a calendar.

The lack of thanks does not make me anxiouz, but I continue on my journey because I signed up—to create. Create something out of thin air, something out of my figment of imagination.

But there are moments where I am vulnerable, alone. In those moments, I look for a post-it where it says, “Continue and Persist.”

Thanks for creating this. I’ll wait for this. Maybe someone, someday.


Having received a C&D letter or two in my day, I can still remember the unpleasant feeling of getting one. This would be a pleasant surprise, once the user recovers from thinking it was a cease and desist :)

Also, 1 typo to fix ('acknoledgement' on homepage: https://triplechecker.com/s/771583/continueandpersist.org)


Long long ago i and friends would smoke a ton of weed and write letters that we never send. They went something like...

Dear sir, you must feel privilaged to receave a letter from someone as important and distingushed as me. It was well earned and deserved i assure you (which is the best kind of assurance) It of course pains me greatly to see my greatness overshadowed but there is joy in being reduced to an observer in awe.....

Ill let myself out


Juding by the content you were not far from the truth... :-)


"Long ago....".


I think something like Keep and Persist would roll off the tongue better, though it is not perfect English. I can't think of another verb that would still rhyme and fit better. Overall well meant idea, but I echo others sentiment that this could really freak some people out. I'm trying to decide whether I'm in that group or not. Probably yeah.


Make sure and watch the video -- excellent satire on the "local ambulance chaser ad". These guys are having a lot of fun.


https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2007/03/second-lifes-resp...

Our legal dept (person) did this in 2007 and it made me so happy.


Something similar that I once created was https://spread-the.love which is a service that sends a random person somewhere on the planet a positive SMS.

Of course the SMS is discontinued because of costs but the idea still exists.


Very funny, completely American, mostly unrelatable for the rest of the world. Please continue and persist.


I don't mind America-only stuff — I think countries should have _more_ country specific stuff! — but it's rather frustrating when you only find out half way through the process of signing up / filling out a form. The presumption that all English speaking people are American is tiresome.

On the other hand, I can't blame people for it either, since it's equally tiresome to be world-inclusive by saying "This is for an northern American audience" at the top of each website that requires it. If only there were some way to un-obnoxiously denote this ... <cough> TLDs <cough> ...


Oh, wow.

I mean, I love the sentiment. It's a cute idea.

But something that on first look looks ike another legalese quagmire on my desk would raise my blood pressure way beyond what my doctor tells me is healthy. By the time I realised this was meant as an encouragement, the damage would already have been done.

Maybe show appreciation in something that masquerades less as yet another fire to put out.


The Law words we know section in the video might be a reference to Cherdleys! https://youtu.be/9iVcDNxsXrY?si=PBgk6naBPUj98k08&t=102


You make my day! instantly brought to mind the many people I care about. It's one of the simplest yet most meaningful, and impactful ways to express respect, appreciation, influence, and encouragement to those closest to us.


I don't think I would enjoy receiving one of these. It looks scary, and the PII side of things is creepy.

If you like my work, say so on social media. That does way more for me than this novelty panic-inducing letter.


Cool that they have an office in the capital of the north east corner of the GTA.


Hypothetically, if I had to violate someone's personal privacy like this, I think I'd be leaning toward doing it for someone I don't like. And even then, I would never.


How is this a violation of personal privacy? Sending mail? Submitting name & address to a business, a readily available datapoint for probably anybody?


A home address is considered PII (Personally Identifiable Information) because, when combined with a name, it directly identifies where someone lives.

When people share their address with businesses, they are generally protected under laws like GDPR and CCPA.

OP’s site seems a bit hosed at the moment so I can’t dig into their privacy policy and see how they handle GDPR and CCPA deletion requests.


> When people share their address with businesses, they are generally protected under laws like GDPR and CCPA.

Only in the EU or California.


That's 500 million people (EU), 25 Million people (California), and of course you forget about all the other places that have PII data protection laws, like Virginia, Colorado, Connecticut, Utah, and increasingly more US states. Then, of course, there is Canada, the UK, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, Singapore, Israel, all of which have GDPR-compatible laws or are quickly approaching it.

I am no lawyer. Before collecting data, better talk to one.


> violate someone's personal privacy

Lmao what explain your math


What's going on here? What planet are you from to come up with a comment like this? Haha wtf.


Achtung! Halten! Verboten!


One often overlooked aspect of owning a trademark : once you have it, you have to defend it. Not a surprise David Chang's lawyers are trying to enforce it. They have to


@adnanaga the e-mail you specified for contact on the site does not work: continue@boondoggle.io gmails says it is miss-configured.

I was wondering for EU, could I get the document template.


Yes! It's on the site too - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_Um9z87Zv_zLRZRRHpii-Mwm...


Thank you for creating this wholesome, weird thing!


Smells like a way to collect addresses to me.


The video is a gem ! Love what you're doing ! Can I send you a Continue and Persist Letter?


Regarding data privacy, but from a different angle, here you are not getting the consent from the actual person receiving the letter, you are getting the consent from someone else, does that allow you to use their information when the consent is not coming from the affected party?


And if you don’t contine and persist you will be in violation of the order.


Really great idea, but why free? At least take like $5 or something.


Can I opt out of receiving letters from this service please?


The negation of ‘cease and desist’ is ‘continue or persist’.


This is amazing! The promo video is very funny! CONGRATS!!


@continueandpersist.org please continue and persist :)


stripe integration on ko-fi seems broken.

i sent an email to ko-fi thru 2 different channels, with loom, cc'd boondoggle...

hope everyone comes back to donate once it gets fixed.


This would freak me out but I like the concept


This is just marvellous. Well done


This will freak some people out ;)


Only if they're doing something they know they should cease and desist doing, which is why it's so fun!


Illegitimi non carborundum.


This is an excellent idea!


Two words: Climate Change


I love this so much.


ThePersistence


get agitated and change something


Where's the usual hardcore libertarian complaining about the "All This For Free!" nomenclature?


Umm, proceed and persist sounds better imo.


Or “pursue and persist”.

“Cease and desist” has nice assonance, I feel “pursue and persist” matches a little more in that regard, though both are decent.

As regards meaning, “proceed” and “pursue” are both good, taking slightly different angles but to essentially the same purpose.


Maybe, but ‘continue’ is a better negation of ‘cease’. Proceed can mean (usually means?) to do something one has not yet started, rather than to not cease.


By the latin roots:

Continue - hold together (cum + tenere -- same root as contain)

Proceed - go forward (pro + cedere)


I'm not sure what you're trying to conclude...


@adnanaga looking at you as a future AJ. And @chan you as the DOPE(Department of pentagon efficiency). I mean the "bar" is too low now. All you need to do is Pass the bar. Pun intended. Love it guys.I just posted a continue and persist letter to you guys. You guys made me smile and laugh. So Thank You on this Thanksgiving day


I am more likely to use one of the wonderful shit-in-a-box services.


fight milk!


As someone who is coming to increasingly believe that 99% of the world problems are caused by powers seeking to intentionally divide us one from the other, I cannot tell you how much joy this brings me to see. I wish you great success in this effort, however small it might appear to be in the scheme of things.


I agree so much, but the pessimist in me says that this isn't _really_ free, and I don't want to plug in a cool person's info without knowing who the info is being sold to.

If this was publicly available document so I could fill in the missing bits, I'd send a dozen of these tomorrow.


> If this was publicly available document so I could fill in the missing bits, I'd send a dozen of these tomorrow.

It is: you can click on 'WRITE YOUR OWN CONTINUE AND PERSIST HERE!'[1] to be sent to a Google Doc with the template.

[1]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_Um9z87Zv_zLRZRRHpii-Mwm...


> I don't want to plug in a cool person's info without knowing who the info is being sold to.

Have we reached peak data privacy paranoia? Harmless lil projects that harken back to the good ol' days of the internet are somehow actually devious PII honeypots?

Why do people think their data is so valuable on its own without being connected to their actual consumer related behavior? Truly, what is a name and address worth vs. anonymous user on smart TV id_8z6748dxzh watched 3 hours of Hoarders on Amazon Prime, skipped 85% of ads, but did not skip 50% of ads relating to early onset male pattern baldness, and resides in Ohio?

We somehow both overestimate and underestimate the value of our personal data. Which leads to unwarranted paranoia in inappropriate contexts and alarming indifference in the most common but mundane contexts.


The privacy policy on the website specifically states that they are collecting the PII and may use it to offer products or services, either by themselves or via a "business partner".

It isn't paranoia when the threat is real.

> We may share Your information with Our business partners to offer You certain products, services or promotions.

> To provide You with news, special offers and general information about other goods, services and events which we offer that are similar to those that you have already purchased or enquired about unless You have opted not to receive such information.


> Harmless lil projects

Currently: a letter choosing formal legal vocabulary (/s) to create social network metadata, endorse human activity ("you'd like the recipient to continue doing"), disclose someone else's physical address and record the interaction in the national postal system.

Future, https://continueandpersist.org/terms-of-service-privacy-poli...

  We may share Your personal information in the following situations:

  For business transfers: We may share or transfer Your personal information in connection with, or during negotiations of, any merger, sale of Company assets, financing, or acquisition of all or a portion of Our business to another company.

  With business partners: We may share Your information with Our business partners to offer You certain products, services or promotions.


The name and address is valuable because it can be matched to offline behavior through a bill you pay or rewards membership you are enrolled in to further enrich the data associated with id_8z6748dxzh and combine it with your shopping history at Macy's and Safeway, for instance. This is even more valuable when combined with your cellular bill.

I've work in ad tech,and with CDPs for nearly 20 years.


Why wouldn’t they just buy name and address in bulk from one of the many providers that has essentially all of our info?


It's easier to target Hackernewses by advertising on their own site.


[flagged]


Personal attacks will get you banned here, so please don't do this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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sorry!

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I have to agree with cootsnuck here. If you are one of the people that found it necessary to raise red flags in these comments about this web site, here’s why I think you got your level of paranoia wrong in this case:

1. The site was never going to scale. The guys are printing physical letters and hand-inserting them in envelopes with stamps, for free!

2. So some entrepreneurial folks on the internet have gathered a hundred physical addresses, and they know a self-reported name and IP address, and maybe some persistent cookie info about a human that might be the first person’s friend. So what? Go bring up https://www.beenverified.com You can gather more info there in 15 minutes than the Continue and Persist guys will get over their whole project.

3. Learn to recognize a fun project that was done out of kindness and a spirit of adventure! Yeah maybe they should have not put up the language of “we get to sell your data if somebody offers to buy our web site”. But so what! The whole thing is just a kind adventure that brought a smile to the faces of some strangers, and will never be more than that. I appreciate it!


> The guys are printing physical letters and hand-inserting them in envelopes with stamps

These things can be done at massive scales cheaply.

> for free!

That increases my level of concern, not decreases.

> Yeah maybe they should have not put up the language of “we get to sell your data if somebody offers to buy our web site”.

Maybe? What the heck do they need the data for a second after they sent the envelope?

> But so what!

So they don’t get my friends addresses. So that.

> The whole thing is just a kind adventure that brought a smile to the faces of some strangers, and will never be more than that.

You say that. But that is at contention here.


> printing physical letters

After collecting data content for the physical letters with a commercial survey/marketing website.


100%

As insidious as data harvesting is, I am even less of a fan of the pearl clutching / performative cynicism that is so popular these days.

Why yes, when I say “good morning” to the barista who hands my my coffee, it is possible that the shop is recording me and will use my voice in an elaborate voice cloning scam to get grandma to transfer her life savings to Nigeria.

But breathlessly alerting me to this impending disaster and soberly advising me to never use my voice in public is not going to impress me.


I can't think of a better example of gaslighting, wow.


Care to elaborate?

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There are so many apps there days that collect all your personal data with so many promises but after you've spent like half an hour signing up and giving them all of your data, they smack you in the face with a pay wall...

I find this so annoying and to a point even criminal, as it's basically a scam, but App Stores do nothing about it, even if you report the apps.

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It’s not paranoia if they are really out to get you.


They are out to get everyone.

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This specific service will know who your friends are. And if enough people used it... they might have to reincorporate in California.


> Have we reached peak data privacy paranoia? Harmless lil projects that harken back to the good ol' days of the internet are somehow actually devious PII honeypots?

Safe assumptions with most any "tech" industry company or individual now are that they will behave completely like sociopaths when it comes to personal data.

It's so baked into "tech" culture now, even people who may be ethically inclined don't recognize it as a problem.

So I object to blaming the victim, or gaslighting, suggesting that people who are aware of this crisis of widespread antisocial behavior are being paranoid.


I’m old enough to remember the white pages, where essentially everyone’s name, phone number, and address were published and distributed.

But it’s hard to have a conversation about appropriate calibration of what is private, and what are reasonable expectations, when extremists from both pro-privacy and scorched-earth commerce are so strident.


It was a lot harder to SWAT people when the White Pages existed. American society was much higher-trust then; people didn't show up to pizza parlors with assault rifles because of something they read online.

You'll have to forgive those of us who simply want to remain safe.


Mafia Enforcer: "It's hard to have a conversation about what's an appropriate level of protection racket, when you're always screaming about your kneecaps being smashed. I'm reaching out to you to talk, but I just can't take you seriously when you're behaving like this."


It is not only the value of my personal data, but it is the fact that they are hiding their intent behind some feel good wishy washy do nothing campaign that will only lead to more pollution and CO2 being released for the sake of makeing money without actually producing anything.

What we have reached is peak neoliberalism.


it truly is free hahah we're using some free survey website plan and then Mark would fill in a template in google docs, print, and post the official letter. I think we hit our limit on the form though. We didn't expect it to blow up! Mark is gonna kill me when he checks his email


> some free survey website plan

What's their privacy policy?


https://www.jotform.com/privacy/


“Yeah we pivoted to hiring and blackmail only later. Killer skills went to hiring, dodgy office romances went to blackmail. Profits are excellent.”


While true, it doesn't even have to be a pivot. It can be a sale of asset (volontary or necessary), an acquihire where the project and data just become some old vault to be disposed of and dozens other scenario.

I'm sure no one at Yahoo actually thought or had any plan for all of that personal data to be data mined wholesale by Verizon a decade later. And nobody at Google right now believes all that data could be sold to Comcast or whatever. But things happen and then...


send one to temp mail then copy it. if the privacy policy weren't so lax I'd not share the cynicism with you, but it state it'll be collected and shared


Gratitude goes a long way.

My job puts me on the receiving end of a lot of gratitude, and I absolutely adore it. It's one of the main perks of the job. After experiencing it, I have become a lot more lavish in my praise, and frequently email people to thank them for their work. Most of them are very appreciative of it, especially when they make their work freely available.


>> I’ll contact someone if I loved their book or music or work. I’ll find a way to contact the author or the creator and say, “Holy shit. That was brilliant. I loved it. This was amazing. Count me as a fan.”

>> I’ve done this about 20 times. I never got a response only once or twice, but the rest responded warmly. Many of these people have turned into friends. We actually call each other on the phone and shoot the shit. A couple of them have even turned into best friends.

more here: https://sive.rs/2020-04-email


Highly recommend any work that has a non-trivial creation/publishing threshold, regardless of medium or domain.

To tie the back to a HN context - this works great for academic papers. I've had some great email exchanges from original authors including a few people I've absolutely idolised. Turns out they're human too.


> Gratitude goes a long way.

It sure does.

And lack of gratitude goes a long way in the wrong direction. Big time demotivator.


Nah, 99% of the world problems is caused by fraud.


And 1% by dubious statistics?


[flagged]


[flagged]


If you click on your profile name (shown top right) you can check your 'karma' score.


No need to be patronizing. You clearly know what they mean, it’s a term that I’ve definitely seen beyond Reddit.


the only place where people care enough about imaginary internet points to comment "stop karma farming" is reddit...


"karma farming" is just another way of saying "playing to the base" on any site. No one actually thinks the points here are worth anything or worth tracking.


karma is definitely a reddit term. but besides that, nothing wrong with using reddit


It started out on slashdot, the forum that invented the entire concept back in the late 90s.


It's still around, and looks alive.

I remember when Slashdot introducing the karma cap, far below my then extant karma. It mostly made karma farming irrelevant.

I also like their mod points plus meta moderation approach.


Slashdot has a karma cap now?...

(goes and logs in for the first time in maybe 10 years) How do you even see your karma now?

Is having a 4-digit UID from before the new 1998(?) green look still cool?


Ice cool


karma is a term _used_ by reddit, but it definitely isn't exclusively used there. Outside of its hindu origin, it's used by quite a few forums that track user submission/comment votes as a user score, including hackernews.


Yeah, it's literally the term used for "points" of social capital in places like HN and Slashdot before it.


HN user pg, aka Paul Graham, the (co-)founder of both this site, i.e. HN, and YC itself, the "parent" site, was probably the guy (or one of his early colleagues) who implemented the karma feature here on HN.

I am saying this because the feature has been there from pretty early on.

No need to believe me, go verify it yourself, by any means you choose.

And see:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EndlessKnot03d.png


Oh there is definitely something wrong with using Reddit after their API fiasco revealed how much disdain they have for their own users and moderators, but that’s besides the point


[deleted]


We need that here. So many down votes and flagged comments because one person might be offended because they don't understand the other person's perspective. So they choose to silence, shadow ban, or outright ban. Shame on you!


Damn that's so wholesome. Thank you


If I have a friend doing... stuff, he/she already has my support and they kinda know it, you know. This is superficial, 7 yrs old kid's approach. Plus, as others mentioned already - it's none of your business to meddle around with their or mine contact data. No, thanks. Real communication with real people for me.


Very good idea, except over the top execution might backfire with neurodivergent people. Such overt gratitude might be perceived as demand, and demands are prone to cause triggers in many types of neurodivergence. One's autonomy might feel threatened, in extreme cases leading to meldown. If you suspect this might be the case, please consider subtler ways to show gratitude.




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