Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
[dupe] You Don't Know Jack about Bandwidth (acm.org)
37 points by edwintorok 89 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 12 comments



This seems to be a somewhat edited version of https://cacm.acm.org/practice/you-dont-know-jack-about-bandw..., discussed previously here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793658


Thanks! Macroexpanded:

You Don’t Know Jack about Bandwidth - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793658 - Oct 2024 (111 comments)


Our only local fiber ISP (Quantum Fiber, recently acquired by CenturyLink) just rolled new WiFi 7 routers to their entire subscriber base. However, I've noticed that these routers often just shut down when too many devices are connected to them, even though we have an extender. The router will get confused, and reboot, and then you'd have a few minutes of downtime while your computer tries to figure out what's going on

Tech on the phone says this is just how routers are supposed to work. He did clear my DHCP reservation table for me though, even though I was having problems with the APs and the DHCP / routing is handled by a separate box (afaik) and it was kind of a pain tracking down the 4-5 hardcoded IP addresses I had scattered around. He also says the new APs have no logging and no way for techs to access them. For a brand new system deployed in 2024! The router / fiber NID has extensive remote access and monitoring capabilities (although their mobile app has ~2-3 minute latencies for every page load). But no access to the APs! It boggles the mind. Just feels like box ticking all the way down.


Can you get third party routers?


Yes but it's just frustrating because in theory these APs are great—WiFi 7, 6GHZ mesh backhaul, 3x 4x4 MU-MIMO radios. But it feels like there was no QA put into the firmware and it struggles with reliability.


> In the best of all possible worlds, every router on the Internet would be running software that has the latest changes to minimize latency, usually fq_codel or CAKE. Unfortunately, not everyone can update as often as they would like, and router manufacturers are often years behind on rewriting their proprietary operating systems to include the newest fixes. Some are even back at PIE, a much older predecessor to CAKE.

how does someone justify moving from PIE to CAKE


Mikrotik RB5009 + simple queue set to my connection's parameters and fasttrack disabled bumped me from C to A+.


I clicked the link, and realized that what I don't know jack about is... clickbait.

TL;DR: Bandwidth != Latency, if you apply QoS/a wiser stack catering to some apps' need for lower latency, you can provide reasonable service to many users with limited bandwidth.


How many words does it take to say QoS(quality of service)?

Too many apparently.

This problem has been solved but much like our bigger and faster computers efficency takes a back seat for MORE. Just throw MORE at it and the problem is solved. It's a failure of tech, capitalism, and the environment.


This is a very well written article that drives home the difference between smooth application responsiveness and numbers like bandwidth that are useless by themselves. I've shared this article with non-IT people who read it and had a much better understanding of how their home internet performance varies under contention.

It's also very real that there's a shortage of equipment for consumers that support any QoS let alone fq_codel or CAKE at a reasonable bandwidth rate, unless you're a power user dabbling in "prosumer" devices or racking your own switches. You could probably use a Raspberry Pi to do this for a 1Gbps connection but very few people have the know-how to do such things.


ISP issued home routers have a remote update procedure, enabled by default. At least that's how it works out in France.

Starting from there (to be checked), shortage of equipment is not a thing: most routers are programmable computers, all we need to do is update the software to something that doesn't suck. And best of all, the customer doesn't even have to know. They just wake up one morning, and as if by magic, their Zoom/Meets/Hangouts calls suddenly work better.

Now if most home routers are not updated by the ISP… my condolences to your country I guess.

Edit: OK, real question: how does home routing actually work in the US? Who is responsible for what equipment, and for the ISP issued equipment, are there any relevant remote update capabilities, and if so are ISPs actually competent at doing updates?


Here in the US the CPE provided by ISPs is almost universally barely functional and low quality. For fiber connections the actual interconnect hardware might be better quality. The box I have has some nice Alcatel-Lucent hardware.

The software running on these things is usually garbage.

Typically people will get routers from their ISP, and their ISP often charges a monthly fee. The ISP is then responsible for troubleshooting and updates. Except for network management related updates, my experience has been that they don’t often (or sometimes ever) issue updates. ISPs here expect most people will never directly interface with the router’s management functionality so it’s often very basic and clunky.

In my home we put any CPE we get into pass through mode and connect our own rack of professional network gear.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: