Ask HN: How to find a non-startup, non-corporate programming job?

[chenger]

Hey all,

I've been a corporate programmer my entire professional life. I'm curious how people find less / non-corporate software jobs. I'm not really looking for a startup, but more something that is stable and yet involves more thoughtful programming / engineering, less sprint-driven. I know these jobs are out there and I see people post about them, but I'm not really sure how to find one.

[solardev]

I'd try the non-commercial sectors if I were you: academia, local governments, federal governments, defense, GIS, nonprofits, etc. They tend not to chase the new shiny as much as produce a lot of the same thing over and over.

There are also a bunch of semi-government entities (research labs and whatnot) that are often funded by the government in some way, but won't necessarily put you on a government pay scale. There are also consultancies that specialize in working with governments (plural because they often work with different cities/counties/states/federal branches) where you can make private-sector wages and bill the taxpayers.

I worked for a natural history museum for a while as a web developer and really loved it... got to work with a bunch of awesome folks with really different backgrounds, from programmers to paleontologists to marketers to fish biologists, etc. I'd have stayed there forever if I could've! The pay was much lower than industry (I think I got $65k or so, can't remember exactly) but it was enough to live on and be happy, with a good work-life culture and balance.

[burner_labrat → solardev]

> There are also a bunch of semi-government entities (research labs and whatnot) that are often funded by the government in some way, but won't necessarily put you on a government pay scale

This is what my work is like, at a large independent biomedical research institute, and it's a good gig. I make probably 80-90% of what I would in industry*, work consistent 40-hour weeks, go in the office only when I feel like it, and I'm learning fascinating new stuff all the time. Maybe the best part though is that the research I'm helping with has direct application in the clinic: clinicians are using it, and I know for a fact that it's improving the lives of actual patients.

(*) In terms of salary rather than TC. Given that I work for a nonprofit there's no possibility for stock or stock options. But then, I've worked plenty of long hours at startups to accumulate options, which combined sum total lifetime have made me not one penny, and the kind of large company that does outright stock grants, I'm not temperamentally suited to work in anyway.

[austin-cheney]

How to get a US government job:

* get a security certification. Security+ minimum but CISSP is preferred. If you want to do more cyber defense/attack then get the SANS certs.

* get a security clearance. Having a secret clearance will open a bunch of doors. Top secret is hard to get, will result in some increased salary, but you are not likely to WFH if the job demands a TS

* be well rounded. Know transmission, infrastructure, cloud, and be able to write software.

* post your resume to usajobs.gov and make it as long as possible

[fededotc]

I've heard "mid-tech" is a good place to be. This is what we call it within our group.

From what I can glean, the best way to get these jobs is to pick a vertical and find some of the larger companies within it and work down from there. The larger ones being more corporate and the smaller ones being more startup-y.

Perhaps filter for companies that are between 20-49 people that are remote ok and based in non-primary markets (not SF, NYC, etc.) Find postings that resonate with you and reverse engineer the filters. Use sales tools like Apollo or SalesNav.

I disagree with the suggestions on here for government/contracting roles. You will be paid less in exchange for little reward for your soul. +1 on working for consultants around the orbit of these though, but you will ultimately find it very corporate and restraining. Not to mention that you will have to go through a security screening process. It is not chill.

[zorkus]

Many academic research groups will hire for various software engineering roles. Pay will likely be lower!

[muzani]

Hang around business folks. They often need a "CTO" to just handle automation, logistics, teach them about CRMs and ERPs.

The downside is you're a cost center then. The last time I applied for one of these, I was getting offered intermediate engineer salaries for a "CTO" role of keeping a multi-million dollar small company with a complex supply chain going smoothly. Less bus count, less vacation time. They'll be reluctant to pay you 5x the median salary, whereas if you work corporate, you can make 1/2 the median salary with the same skill set. It's why it's not a common path for the folks around here, and it doesn't reward depth of knowledge.

[jdubya859]

I suggest smaller industrial companies in machine control or warehouse management. Some of the most enjoyable projects I’ve worked on were related to non-destructive testing. The smaller companies I’ve worked for have mainly been windows based c#.

[ssc23]

Quantitative hedge fund. They pay well and depending on what desk (What the team is trading) you end up joining, the environment is in between corporate and startup.

[the-chitmonger → ssc23]

I've been eyeing quant dev as a career path for quite some time, but it's always felt like a longshot given my background (non-CS degree).

As someone with frontend experience (Vue.js) at a startup and backend experience (ASP.NET) at a government position, how difficult would it be for me to get my foot in the door?

[ssc23 → the-chitmonger]

Not difficult at all. Most quant dev position require you to be decent at coding in either python/JavaScript or C#. If they see you have that capability, you can land an interview at least. They do require coming into office though.

[zerr → ssc23]

Those were hesitating REMOTE even during pandemic.

[Pinkthinker]

Can you work with a headhunter? Doing interviews is always the best way to learn about the job market and get feedback. Even if they are not able to get you the interviews you want they will definitely give you feedback. Same thing goes for consulting firms and other intermediaries

[taylodl]

I have some potential bad news for you - become a consultant and say this is what you want to do. You'll work in some whacky, rural areas on who-knows-what, but you won't be sprint-driven. At least not so much.

[JojoFatsani]

Academia or government