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Tesla's Cybertrucks are rusting despite stainless steel (jalopnik.com)
57 points by Animats 8 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 110 comments



In particular, oil and acidic soiling, such as tar or bird droppings, should be cleaned immediately with an alcohol-based solvent. Immediately afterwards, rinsing with clear water or a pH-adjusted soap is recommended. This type of cleaning should be necessary after every longer ride.

Doesn't seem like a great vehicle for taking outside then.


>Doesn't seem like a great vehicle for taking outside then.

It's only meant to be an cool looking meme product / status symbol for showing off, not an actual utility vehicle.


Unless you’re exaggerating for show, that’s not what’s it’s meant to be at all.

Failing to achieve one’s goals is different than never setting them in the first place. Why mix that up?


I think you are both partially right. The Cybertruck embodies all the compromises you have to make when your marketing team (Elon) makes a lot of promises that engineers have to try and deliver on.

Take the ridiculous shape of the car itself that Elon clearly drew on a napkin and refused to compromise on going forward. The engineers had to "just figure it out" and so you end up with a windshield wiper that is 10 inches longer than the one on city busses and costs $75 just for the rubber blade. That isn't innovative and it doesn't solve any specific problem other than they got painted into a corner.


This is a standard notice in almost every vehicle's manual


I checked with local mechanical engineers that build their own outdoor work vehicles.

They've never heard of such a thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0YxZfiX2uE


They’ve never read the manual of any vehicles they own? This is a common CYA weasel statement.


Pretty unlikely, most of the vehicles would have been acquired third or fourth hand sans manuals - see link for details.

All that aside, myself and many people I've known for many years have a combined several hundred years experience with a wide variety of vehicles going back to the 1930s - the corrosion issues with the CyberTruck as described are unusual - few people expect birdshit to cause permanent marking unless it's washed off immediately - common experience dictates that washing it off once a month (or less often even) will do just fine.


I’m not talking about the cybertruck corrosion, I’m talking about the standard statements about paint care in manuals. I’m sure your extended network with its hundreds of years of experience has come across that.


Really? I don't blame them, no one reads that part of the manual. But it's basically word for word what's on Ford's manual. It's basically stuff that no one actually does though.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/Own...


But then the difference is: The Ford has no problems with tar, and the Cybertruck is rusting.


Even if that was true, the outcome isn't that your car would rust if you don't do it, you might get some stained paint, but that's about it.

I wash my car once a year, and it has no visible rust on the body and it's about 15 years old.


Here you go[0], again the notice is still common even if as you said it would be a disaster if the vehicule actually rusts without a crazy amount of cleaning that no one would actually do.

And this is likely not the stainless itself rusting but environmental contamination (rust from railings etc). I'm not saying that because of the vehicule, but based purely on how this grade of stainless usually behaves. Stainless can rust, but this is pretty fast and the stain is a bit weird. Unless Tesla lied about the stainless steel grade, which is another can of worms.

Now I'm a bit curious, I might ask the actual rust formation experts I work with to confirm (I work on non destructive testing devices which involves a lot of... rust haha. Though I'm not specialized in that specific type of detection). I might be wrong on this, but if if I am it would really be a huge blunder from Tesla.

>https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/Own...


I know that is in the manual of ever car and I know from experience that parking under trees etc isn't great for a car, but as I said, I've never had my car "rust" because of it and the cars I'm driving generally aren't considered to be "tuff trucks".


Oh I completely agree. If it turns out to be actual body rust, yes that's a disaster and them putting the notice in the manual doesn't make it any better.


John DeLorean managed to make a fleet of stainless cars in the 1980s, in troubles-torn Belfast, financed mostly by cocaine deals. And his cars didn't rust.

Don't want to risk Dang's ire here with a snarky dismissal so here's some substantive comment: the DeLorean used 304 grade steel; the CT is 301 which has more carbon and less chromium, so probably is a bit worse at resisting corrosion, but has some desirable strength properties over 304 and is cheaper.


Deloreans notoriously have terrible frame rust issues.

https://www.deloreanguide.com/new-posts/frame-rustquite-poss...


Is that really relevant considering the frame on a delorean isn't the SS part?


I think it helps adjust the “deloreans were perfect cars” tone of the comment. Also, the panels of the car definitely rust too.


304 also rusts - especially in the presence of salt water which is why we don’t use it on the exterior of boats (unless you want rust stains) but instead use 316.

Same with cutlery..cheap cutlery uses 304 (18-8) and will develop rust spots and better cutlery uses 316 (18-10).


Yep - I cheaped out on some 304 grade fixers in the engine room on my saltwater boat and they were rusty garbage inside of a season. And that was just salty air, no direct water contact.


I’ve seen very few DeLoreans and imagine they were mostly well kept, garaged and driven in good weather.

CT is supposed to be a rugged space ship on wheels, bulletproof, arrowproof, fjording streams and climbing mountains.


True, they're bona fide classics these days. but what is telling is that an image search for "rusty delorean" returns a lot of broken cars, but none covered in rust. Here's the worst I could find: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fb/54/1a/fb541a90e6e0d2176c6a...

The only actually rusty car photos were artists' impressions or stable diffusion output.


I can see Elon musk telling us that there is no rain on Mars, which is where it's really designed for, so it's ok and continue to order please.


Will you get free shipping to Mars when the time comes?


...yes


I don't know a lot about metal, I'm not sure if you do either, but I'm curious, would Tesla be able to use the 301 steel for the majority of the panel and then somehow use 304 on the surface only as a coating? Would the whole panel need to be the same material because if that 301 corroded the 304 steel would flake off?


Not a huge amount. I don't think you can "coat" (i.e. electroplate) one type of steel over another. You might consider chrome or nickel plating the thing but the costs would be quite high and it'd flake off in time anyway. Not much benefit for a big increase in manufacturing complexity. At that point, just paint it.

I'm sure there are sound reasons for picking a lower grade of stainless. This is not something that's unforeseeable. My guess is that it's somewhat intentional; the aesthetics of the thing are already a bit Mad Max-y so a bit of surface rust is cool.


I only think it would be cool if it stays on the car, ie you don't get yourself and other things rusty, including your driveway. I agree though, it could end up looking "cool" but I don't think that it would be for everyone, I imagine many people who buy a cyber truck want it to be shiny and silver. I personally love old looking things so it wouldn't bother me but I highly doubt that goes with the futuristic aesthetic of the car, time will tell I guess.


The "rusty steel" look is somewhat popular in architecture, but it's corten steel, not stainless steel. The idea is to have a stable rust layer instead of paint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel


yeah, the other thing is, on a car, I'd imagine dirt would be really good at adhering to rust, so the car would look pretty freaking bad if you took it anywhere near mud. If it maintained the nice stainless slick finish, a hose off would be enough to keep it looking nice.


Different grades of stainless steel respond differently to temperature changes. They would either warp or sheer apart depending on how well the two layers were bonded.

The same principal is how many thermometers work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimetallic_strip


It's my understanding that the Delorean steel has some kind of clearcoat on it. Tesla's steel is uncoated.


IIRC, the official DeLorean manual recommends using gasoline to clean the exterior.


I own a Model X, so I'm extremely aware of Tesla's abysmal build quality and service experience.

However. The steel is kind of the point of the Cybertruck. Considering it purely aesthetically, I actually kind of like it, and if I got one, I would enjoy that fact that it would accumulate wear over time.

The question is, is the rust actually damaging? Does it create a structural problem?

It is kind of funny that people are earnestly suggesting "don't drive it in the rain", though. Some truck that is.


Whatever you like, but I think you are a very rare person who doesn't mind rust on their car. EDIT: Soon, you might be able to buy one very cheaply - a benefit of being highly contrary to the market'!


Also getting rust all over your clothes sucks and I agree, a rusted DeLorean wouldn't have the same appeal either.


Given the Cybertruck’s appeal is its outlandish aesthetics, maybe rust would simply be heightening the shtick.


This debate - maybe rusty trucks are appealing! - is heightening the Musk fanboy schtick. Is there no limit to the absurdity?


I'm not a Musk fanboy, I'm just trying to put myself in their shoes. Decking out your overpriced low-polygon image asset with genuine rust feels like bringing the Judgment Day future war LARP to a whole new level.


well even if it's only surface rust it's super awkward for a 80s future brand new vehicle... I can understand the appeal of wear but here it's too paradoxical


Yeah, patina on materials like copper or leather is one thing but I've never heard of rusty steel being a desirable look.


>I've never heard of rusty steel being a desirable look

You've never heard of Salad Fingers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3iOROuTuMA


There are certain modern "zen gardens" and buildings I've seen in Japan which incorporate rust into the design, I personally love them, but for a car, it's highly impractical because rust stains clothes quite badly and IMO looks stupid on a futuristic looking truck.

Actually, that's probably one of the major floors of the cyber truck design, as they get damaged, the damage probably really really sticks out more than on any other car because something so futuristic looking also seems to imply perfection.



I live nearby a building like this, it was and is unbelievably horrendous since day one. For a while I thought there was some chemical reason behind this.. like rust as primer for later coat of something..


I think that is true. It is a particular type of steel alloy (weathering steel) that forms a stable oxide layer that protects the bulk of the material from further corrosion very effectively (after a few years).


It can work for some buildings, here in Stockholm's KTH the Architecture School [1] building has weathering steel panels and it looks pretty good in person.

[1] http://www.olafogelstrom.se/content/1.arkitektur/35.arkitekt...


The ratio of glass / iron may play a role in balancing the aesthetics. That said it still looks weird to me :)


I enjoy a good rust aesthetic when done correctly (cybertruck is not the correct place though)


Black rust can look nice, but not orange rust.


For some reason it’s a trend on German cars like BMW or VWs. Specifically rusting the hood, but leaving the rest of the body panels painted. Some even go for an even coating on the whole car.

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/the-rusted-hood-trend-is-se...


What? It's super common in architecture and landscape design these days.

eg https://www.falconstructures.com/blog/architecture-corten-st...


> I would enjoy that fact that it would accumulate wear over time.

All vehicles in use accumulate wear over time.

> Does it create a structural problem?

Considering that it has appeared on vehicles so quickly it's reasonable to assume that this is likely.

> It is kind of funny that people are earnestly suggesting "don't drive it in the rain", though. Some truck that is.

The question is, do these people actually _need_ a truck?


>The question is, do these people actually _need_ a truck?

People don't have to need something in order to buy it. They buy stuff because they have disposable income and like owning flashy/cool shit.

A lot of our salaries depend on people buying lots of expensive shit they don't need. Otherwise half of us would be laid off. It's the sad truth of the economics of western consumerism.

My parents lived in communism, where you could only buy the bare minimum of what you actually need to survive and that's it. ~10 years waiting list for a new car and stuff like that. It was rough. Definitely less wasteful though, as everything was being repaired over and over again instead of thrown away.


“To prevent damage to the exterior, immediately remove corrosive substances (such as grease, oil, bird droppings, tree resin, dead insects, tar spots, road salt, industrial fallout, etc.). Do not wait until Cybertruck is due for complete wash. If necessary, use denatured alcohol to remove tar spots and stubborn grease stains, then immediately wash the area with water and a mild, non-detergent soap to remove the alcohol.” Tesla Cybertruck owner’s manual"

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-youll-have-to-wipe-dead-b...


>enjoying rust

"Four legs good. Two legs better!"


When steel rusts the surface is cracked and removed pretty easily by friction, you often see parts rusted through after years or in places with salt on roads. That's definitely more than aesthetic. On the other hand, if you mean "worn" as in things like a brushed appearance you'd get that with 304 as well. I agree that brushed surfaces from use look nice, but actual rust is damage.

... that said the article calls it "rust" but if it's something else maybe it is no big deal. That analysis is cheap.


You are going to love the special edition Corten[1] model.

[1] https://www.corten.com/what-is-corten-steel/

/s


> no less susceptible to stains than stainless kitchen appliances, which easily develop grease and water stains

Stainless kitchen appliances that I've owned were pretty stain-free. That is, water, fingers, etc. left visible marks, but they were easily wiped away. There are no rust or permanent stains, IME.

They aren't used outside, but could that material be used for a car?

Also, weren't the Delorean cars in the 1980s made of stainless steel? Did they rust?


>> Also, weren't the Delorean cars in the 1980s made of stainless steel? Did they rust?

The body panels really don't but the frames do.

https://www.delorean.ie/AaronDixon.html


There's different grades of stainless, only time will tell I guess. But I looked through the threads and one easily cleaned off with BKF and denatured alcohol, so I think it was cosmetic.


It greatly depends on location and actual material used. I currently own indoor stained “stainless” appliances in a coastal area.


Previously: "Tesla Cybertruck may have a rust problem"[0] (60 points, 2 days ago, 67 comments) "Owners report rust forming on Tesla Cybertruck"[1] (129 points, 1 day ago, 244 comments),

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39354342 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357595


This is wild. The truck that is literally advertised as bulletproof, so tough for any kind of offroad use...just make sure you don't get it wet, and wipe off any oil, bird droppings etc the instant they happen.


It is bullet proof, as long as the bullet doesn't hit a rust spot.


Obviously Tesla never bothered with actually testing one of their trucks enough to find out that their special 30X steel isn't actually "stainless".

Or maybe they did test it and really just don't care.

Either way, this must give buyers that warm fuzzy feeling of quality and will undoubtedly enhance Tesla's reputation in the marketplace.


Orange specs remind me of when I had a white vehicle. Iron particles from brakes etc.

I through it was rust on the body panels, but you can remove it with a clay bar.


Rail dust. Also comes from snow plows in snowy regions.


When I took delivery of my previous car, all the brightwork was covered in rail dust. Annoying that the dealer didn't remove it but easy enough to remove with clay bar.


The battery could be used to power a cathodic protection system with a sacrificial anode. Looks like some there will be some job openings for corrosion engineers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection


I think rusty cybertrucks might kind of enhance their post-apocalyptic vibe.


I hope pedestrians keep their tetanus shots up to date when the driver's Vision Pro starts dropping frames as they attempt to make a left turn at an intersection...


hopefully there isn't cow poop on the cars, Rust doesn't cause Tetanus on its own.


Well TIL :D

though now that I think of it, the "low-res graphics front hood wedge" shape of the truck will make any rust the least pedestrians' worries


It would be nice for Tesla to add a "serration option" to the cybertruck where every edge is sharpened and serrated - just in case you need to cut a tomato and can't find a knife. Or in case there's an apocalypse.


As any saltwater sailboat owner can tell you, stainless steel rusts. It just rusts slower than regular steel.



quite dislike the cybertruck.

however, this is actually easier to maintain than paint. a little spotting on stainless is quite easy to take out with a mild abrasive..and I assume the gauge is thick enough that its not going to eat through any time soon. you can follow the grain, or if its matte use a little random orbital.

you can also wax it every 6 months and _really_ slow it down

although its difficult to get it to take on properly passivated stainless (which apparently this is not) as someone suggested in the related thread, a patina would add a bit of a charm


How is using a mild abrasive to take out spotting easier than the doing nothing you would do with a modern painted vehicle?


Using a "mild abrasive" on the surface of your car is a lot more involved than mindlessly going through a car wash.


Presumably you also have to wash the Cybertruck, so that doesn't count against the painted vehicle.


Cybertruck must be drycleaned.


Most detailing nerds use a product called Iron-X rust remover on new cars to remove the contaminants new vehicles inevitably pick up in transport. I wonder if that’s what’s going on here?


People are learning what knife collectors always knew.

There's no stainless steel. There's stain less steel.


A metallurgist once told me that stainless doesn't mean it doesn't stain, it just means it stains less.


Just like jeans and electric guitars, I can imagine Elon adding an option to have your Cyber Truck pre-rusted.


The option is already there, it's called buying the car used.



The battery could be used to power a cathodic protection system with a sacrificial anode.


Is it safe to use steel wool to remove the rust? Or some scotch-brite pads?


It will scratch the surface for sure.


I wonder what a "brushed metal" Cybertruck would look like.


Since you could do it in different patterns, this opens up for shops doing brushing like others do dipping/wrapping. I'm somewhat excited about this idea now. :)


Rusty brushed metal, nice.


I can only imagine this is going to destroy resale value.

Any kind of rust, flood damage, bad paint etc are instant red flags for me when I’m looking at a used car.

I mean, how can we even do an inspection of an EV if we can’t do the usual due diligence like looking at the oil, getting your trusted mechanic to inspect it, etc


Looking at the oil ? On an electric vehicle ?


Might want to re-read what they said.


Occasionally when I'm learning how to make something new I read up on the product and when I started painting a lot of things, I learned how modern paints are incredible, mainly because the car manufacturers drove the technology over 50+ years and they continue to use paint for cars today. I think it would be crazy to ignore that and choose to make a stainless car/truck/abomination but to be frank, I think this vehicle was built more on a whim based on something Elon said and then told people to do, and it will be discontinued as impractical and unreliable within 1 or 2 model years.


I own a fairly cheap Japanese small car which lives outside and it's absolutely insane how well the paint is aging, the car looks almost knew even though it's 20 years old, there is almost zero sigh of rust of corrosion and this car lives in snow 4 months of the year. So I completely agree, the stuff is incredible.

I actually feel relieved when I walk outside and look at it, I hardly wash it but it still looks quite new.


"Some Cybertruck owners say their fellow Cybertruckers are blowing things out of proportion, and one said it’s a good idea to not “...drive it in the rain, or get it wet."


When I was returning my third iPhone 4 with a bad camera, the Apple salesperson told me I was thinking about it wrong.

I switched to Android.

I guess having a truck you shouldn't get wet or plan to tow things with is "thinking about things right"


Or not drive it at all


Is it a Gremlin?


No, you can feed it after midnight.


If it were any other EV maker, the comments would be shitting on the company and laughing at the CEO. But no, totally not a cult /s.


> comments would be shitting on the company and laughing at the CEO

What are you talking about? That's exactly what most people do, and they've been doing it for years.


I think this is probably the 2nd-worst vehicle ever marketed, behind the DeLorean, but this aspect of it doesn't seem like the biggest problem. Why not just use creative ways to clean it? Make a paste of baking soda, clean the surface thoroughly, then finish with citric acid. It's how I clean my refrigerator ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Ah yes, clean your steel car with acid. Genius move.


How do you think stainless steel is passivated to begin with, Dr. Materials?




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