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macOS Sonoma 14.4 removes critical functions from the fileproviderctl command (forums.macrumors.com)
103 points by luckman212 on Feb 4, 2024 | hide | past | favorite | 70 comments



HN is definitely going to remember that 14.4 is still in early beta.

But Apple might forget about us and deliver broken software ONCE AGAIN


It's not "broken." Apple has been increasingly hostile to "traditional" file servers (dropping AFP support - AFP is still superior to SMB both performance and compatibility-wise) and non-iCloud file sync services. They also disabled third party cloud syncing to folders on external drives fairly recently. I'm blanking but there were other changes in Ventura related to third party cloud sync, too.

There's a reason your iPhone/iPad defaults, every fucking time you try to save a file, to iCloud storage and the "default storage location" option was removed from preferences.

Apple is taking the "frog in the pot of boiling water" approach, slowly pushing everyone toward iCloud file storage, despite it being a dogshit service with numerous problems because the dev team are more interested in coordinating their nail color to their McLaren (I wish I was joking.)


> There's a reason your iPhone/iPad defaults, every fucking time you try to save a file, to iCloud storage and the "default storage location" option was removed from preferences.

I assume you're right about Apple removing the preference, but I just shared a photo, picked "Save to Files" and it defaulted to Cryptomator. In case it's helpful to know, you can also turn off "iCloud Drive" as a Location.


TresorIt can synchronise file to and from folders on external drives just fine. Don't know why others don't want to implement it...


Counting down till the commenters start telling everyone to switch to Linux. Not that I disagree with them.



Not much help if you’ve got an ARM Mac.



https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/M3-Series-Feature-Su...

A large list of things that don't work and are not even being worked on doesn't sound enticing.

Things like HDMI, WiFi and Bluetooth don't work and are not being worked on.


Wrong on both counts.

focus was on m2 to get the release out because that is where almost all the users are.

As a result, I was the main one working on m3 before the new year, and got it through to Linux kernel loading (ie m1n1 works) and running macos under the hypervisor. Patches are submitted.

I also happen to be the one doing a lot of the wifi work.

Wifi and Bluetooth work fine on m3 - the chipset is the same as the m2.

It's listed as not working because there is no released Linux support yet.


Well then I guess I'm reading it wrong. Everything reads TBA: https://i.imgur.com/3hnUneR.png

And the definition of TBA is on the same page:

"TBA: Active work on this feature is not being undertaken at this time"

Suggestion: Add a new status for "Awaiting release".


These are all community maintained by volunteers, so please feel free to add it yourself as well?

If not, i'll try to get to adding it and updating when i get some more free time :)


M3 has only been out for a few months. Compare this to M2 and M1, where mostly everything works just fine with Asahi: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/M2-Series-Feature-Su...


For anyone who doesn't make using Apple hardware the top priority, might be a lot easier to just find more-open laptop hardware that you like, and use stock Debian atop that.


The monstrous battery life is a big draw.


Then buy a M2 instead, or a Thinkpad or something.


Yep. That's what I did. Linux with multiple monitor support that just works.



Why would you buy a proprietary computer if you don't like its matching proprietary OS? Just doesn't make sense.


Some people already have Apple hardware, or like the build quality or aesthetics it, or want the current fast CPU, or are single and think the Apple logo will let them pass as non-nerds in cafes.

I suspect most people would be happier with more-open hardware, even an ordinary consumer laptop intended for MS Windows. But if the barrier is that someone wants to use an Apple laptop, we can work with that.


Because I want to own the hardware I buy, not be at the mercy of the company that made it.


That sounds more like a reason to not buy a proprietary computer in the first place.


Obviously makes sense if you prefer the hardware


It's what I did too (well, BSD, not Linux).

I was just sick of Apple catering mainly to the rich consumer dicking around on Facebook and not to the more technical populace who wants to control what they own. I'm very happy to be off Apple, it really felt like a breath of fresh air and still does 3 years later.


That has been Apple since the Mac Classic days, what is the surprise there?


Early OSX had fewer guard rails, up to about Snow Leopard


Apple was almost bankrupt, they had to play nice for a split second.


I use Void btw.


[flagged]


I’ve a feeling this truly ended with the iPod. No more iPods and Apple software quality is going downhill pretty fast :(


My top-specced 14" M3 Max has all kinds of weird issues I've never seen before - half of the screen going pink when I switch between local users too often, getting completely unresponsive with only power off helping, not mounting USB sticks by default with only some window appearing for a millisecond on the screen, battery lasting 5 hours in VSCode (!!!) etc.


Not to say that the quality of OS updates has been stellar in the past several years, but Sonoma stands out as an especially buggy release.

I've encountered a lot of weird bugs, including it occasionally becoming completely unresponsive, that I've not had on this particular machine before. This machine being a 16 inch M1 Max.


That you mention a specific app in regards to battery life suggests it's more likely an app specific problem.

I don't think it's a coincidence you're having poor battery life with an electron app.


Surprisingly I don't have that issue on my other two Macbooks. Also WiFi goes randomly down without any notification and so does USB charging. M3 Max for $8000. One would expect something less messy for that price.


What model are the other MacBooks? Possibly it's something not optimised or even not compiled for arm.

Wifi can be a very mixed bag, the usb-c charging issue sounds like something worth taking/sending it back for (assuming it's not something obvious like a crappy usb charging brick).


Other MacBooks are Intel and never drop WiFi. USB-C charger is the original 140W Apple one. If I send it back, I'll get a refurb mobo with another set of issues as returned by somebody else and not a new one, and all my data wiped out. I pay yearly AC+. I still hope some future OS release will fix it but I am not so sure.


If you're not willing to take it in to have what sounds like a hardware fault fixed under the warranty you're paying for and not using, I'm not really sure what you want, except something to complain about.

Warranties exist for a reason, if you choose not to make use of it, that's on you, not the manufacturer.


From my past experience Apple replaces the faulty board with another (previously) faulty board they attempted to repair and which passed their initial stress test, only giving up ghost within 2 years. Happened to me twice before. If I had a guarantee they put in a new board, that would be different.


Are you running the apple silicon vs code? The performance difference (and battery life I imagine) is night and day. I had similar issues with an m2 and getting a m3 max has fixed them all, so might just be a hardware problem.


You could, you know, take advantage of Apple's best-in-class support and service?

Also: the 5 hours in vscode thing is almost certainly some extension you're running that is constantly spinning its wheels. This isn't hard to figure out - just look in Activity Monitor.


Nothing shows up eating more than 4% CPU. Also when I go to sleep with battery at 100%, turn off the WiFi for the night and close the lid, I often find battery at around 30% the next morning. Don't tell me it's a user problem. I suspect 128GB RAM is eating too much power or something. I also refuse to visit Apple "geniuses" as they don't honor appointment times (fed up from waiting 2 hours until somebody talked to me) and then going through 30 minutes of trivial questions before they actually do something. Not mentioning they always wipe out drives when they "fix" something and I end up with some refurb motherboard that failed for somebody else before.


Apple support has not been best in class for years now.


Is there any other laptop manufacturer that offers generally better support than Apple? I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested.


I mean, I’ve found Apple support has become incredibly disappointing in the last 5 or so years, and Lenovo support has actually improved, though you usually have to mail your device in.

I’m legitimately unsure what changed in Apple to make their support go from “pretty damn good” to “honestly a waste of damn time”.


It is, apparently no one can handle sarcasm on this forum.


From the macOS 13 thread by OP:

  > If you don't know what it is, and don't use it - it probably won't affect you.
  >
  > But some people use this tool to control and work with apps that use the 
  > FileProvider API: such as Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox, ShellFish, etc.
I feel like I'm covered by the first sentence, but still curious as to what can be controlled by the CLI tool portions.


One important thing for me was being able to fix broken cloud storage paths that had become out of sync for whatever reason. This was a frequent-enough issue for my users of Google Drive, and to a lesser extent, OneDrive that I had built some tooling around it into our MDM. This worked by calling the subcommands `fileproviderctl materialize`, `fileproviderctl domain remove` and `fileproviderctl evict` to clear these broken paths and restore the sync to a working state. No longer possible.


It’s kind of sad that even after 15+ years, no one has caught up to Dropbox. None of the other cloud providers do proper block-level sync, and I hear much less about Dropbox breakage than other providers.

It does make sense because OneDrive, iCloud and Google Drive are tie-in services. If you use Microsoft 365 / Apple / Android you are “forced” to use them to gain access to certain features, meaning there is no competitive pressure.


Dropbox is still superior IMO. I have a Office365 subscription but OneDrive can make a huge a mess with default settings if you aren't careful when you set it up on anything but a new machine. It's just less slick overall - plus I really want first class Linux support.

I don't want to pay for two file storage systems though and the 3 host limit on Dropbox is a shame. Without it they'd be all but guaranteed to lock me in and I would (gladly) start paying again in a year or so for more space.

Instead I switched to syncthing, which is great but not as nice.


Syncthing not only does block-level sync, it does it in a distributed fashion.

https://docs.syncthing.net/users/syncing.html


Yeah I have many different cloud storage subscriptions. And although I don’t like Dropbox as a company due to the things they did, it is the only thing that really works, all the time.

A “refuse” to “upgrade” to the fileprovider version, as I don’t want stupid&slow functionality like iCloud Drive.


OneDrive has had block level sync dor all files for 4 years.


I'm not sure on what basis you came to your conclusion but I do not have my issues with OneDrive on Mac and gdrive on Windows for ages.


They mentioned a specific feature (delta sync) that not all providers support. Onedrive seems to after 2020, but I don't think Gdrive does.

It doesn't matter if you're just syncing a bunch of small files (code, documents, images) but can make a big difference in bigger files (compressed archives, large media assets, etc.)

https://www.cloudwards.net/block-level-file-copying/


Google Drive used to, maybe still does keep versioning metadata in file names


4 versions into the public release and they still haven’t figured out how to let users reliably download wallpapers from their servers


LOL really? I'm behind on the wallpaper drama but a few weeks ago I installed something that downloaded all of the new Sonoma realtime HD whatever they're called wallpapers to a foler on my NAS so that all my android tvs could stream them as idle screens..

It is like 60gb+ of data I didn't want that getting hammered by 3 different tvs because I have a limit.

Also they're really not that interesting. I find them pretty boring to be honest and prefer Wallpaper engine by far.


Every few months I test to see if its still broken. It’s kind of hilarious seeing scrappy startup-esque triaging of longstanding known issues from the crown jewel desktop os of a three trillion dollar company.


Yeah I am a huge OSX/macos fan that converted 10-12 years ago and every single job in my last 10+ years has given me a MBP so I know it almost better than linux or windows now (I've been an eng for both).

Whatever goes on in the Apple MacOS meeting rooms every year lately is like, nothing that I could ever imagine in my wildest fever dream. Stage manager? Why do I still have 5 app packages "mounted" on my desktop after 3 years that I eject every few weeks and come right back? Webcam emojis with thumbs, cool. etc etc. That iphone webcam thing was cool for a week but i completely forgot about it until I wrote this.

I can think of so many goofy bugs or weird MacOS idiosyncracies that just never get mentioned that we deal with. I've had SO many Macbook Pros, I have 3 M1s in my house right now and I have like 2x the amount of white chargers than I have of actual laptops nowadays and they all act exactly the same.

When I wake up monday morning and bang on my keyboard no matter what version of OSX it is I have a 40%ish chance of it not waking up without me grabbing the laptop and opening the lid.

20 years later.

Honestly, nowadays, windows is my "chill and relax" OS. It's windows snapping is amazing. I hate developing on it though, I did it awhile with WSL2 years ago and had many frustrations, like completely breaking my wsl vm somehow.


> Why do I still have 5 app packages "mounted" on my desktop after 3 years that I eject every few weeks and come right back?

This sounds like apps are being run directly from disk images. Make sure the apps are copied to /Applications/ or ~/Applications/ or wherever else preferred, make sure they’re all quit, unmount the disk images, trash the disk images, empty trash. They won’t come back.

There’s also a possibility that it’s automated third party updaters getting stuck and not being able to unmount the disk images from automatically downloaded updates but this seems less likely.


Apple has hired people from Microsoft Windows's team or what?


14.4 is beta. If betas can’t be beta, they are pointless and Apple shouldn’t bother releasing them.


The purpose of making a beta publicly available is so people outside the company can try it out, find what’s broken, and report on it.

That’s exactly what’s happening here. The poster found an issue, reported it to Apple, then commented on it publicly so others who depend on it could be made aware and also report it to Apple (they specifically say duplicate reports help).


I don’t even understand what this comment means in this context.

This isn’t like a bug that was introduced in the beta, and betas are intended to help find bugs.

This is functionality deliberately being removed, that is wildly known to break cloud storage software.


> I don’t even understand what this comment means in this context.

Not OP, but it means you should expect beta software to be broken and incomplete.

How would you know this isn't due to a bug introduced in the beta? Seems as likely an explanation as anything else at this point, unless you have some inside information.

A lot of things use a "plugin" organization, and if a certain plugin was missing -- say, due to bug leading to a failed compile, the tool would work fine but the functionality provided by the plugin would simply be missing. Not that I have any insight into this particular case, but just pointing out there are perfectly reasonable ways a bug could cause this.

Also, I've personally disabled features in a beta release when I knew the feature was broken and it would cause long term issues if someone tried to use the broken feature (like data corruption). So it could be deliberately removed but only temporarily.

Or maybe Apple just removed this to be dicks, IDK... But I don't think you do either, do you?

If you do have inside info, can you let us know whyx this was removed?


It's not a "bug" - I ran `strings /usr/bin/fileproviderctl` on 14.3 and 14.4 and you can clearly see that the commands and their related helptext have been completely removed.


If they had disabled those commands at source level (e.g. with the preprocessor) then that’s exactly what you’d expect to see. But we don’t know why they disabled them, yes it could be a rug pull, but it could also be because there was a serious known bug when the deadline for the beta came around and it was safer to temporarily disable the commands rather than leave them in. We don’t know the dynamics at play, there could be a bug in some upstream component and whoever is responsible for this tool doesn’t have any choice but to disable it while they wait for the fix.

It would have been nice if they left a note of explanation but… Apple.


I think Apple got themselves in that position. Features many people relied on did go away lots of times before. Basic things are broken and Apple doesn't care. (dtrace is broken in latest 2 major versions of the system, same for system settings search) At this point, if some functionality disappears, it's not totally unreasonable to expect that it's Apple being Apple.


Most likely because that isn't the main tracing tool for quite some time now, rather Instruments.

Creating Custom Instruments - WWDC 2018

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/410/

Yes, there isn't feature parity per se with DTrace, since when it was an impediment for Apple to replace some set of APIs or tooling?


I'd be less annoyed about this one if they just removed dtrace if they don't want to fix it and replaced it with "echo 'use Instruments'". But that's not the case - dtrace will currently crash your whole system if you try to use it on M2/M3. They also acknowledged it's a bug months ago.


Removing critical functions isn't a necessary part pod being beta, so no, betas can be betas without that




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