The pricing is surprisingly low ($299) for being Teenage Engineering, wonder if they got tired of people complaining about their pricing? I guessed somewhere around $1000 before seeing the price.
From the Verge article[0] on this device, it was designed from the ground up to a) only need parts that they could actually get during the pandemic, and b) sell for less than $300.
I think this looks really cool and I want my in-laws to gift it to me for the holidays.
Their pocket operator series were inexpensive, at $60-100 per model, but were very basic with essentially a bare PCB and most of the electronics protected by being placed under the screen. I believe that much of the cost of their expensive products is due to a lot of custom parts like CNC machined aluminum enclosures. This product seems designed to hit a price point between the pocket operators (~$100) and their plastic OP-Z (~$500).
I'll put my comment about price here. I saw "teenage engineering" and immediately thought "no way I'd afford that", but I clicked anyway. Sort of like how I'd look at a Lamborghini poster as a kid.
It looks like it's made of plastic. Some of their other outrageously priced products are made of aluminium. Maybe that accounts for a chunk of the difference.
Pocket operators which this is a big cousin of didn't even have a case at all. I sort of think this looks as good as 3 pocket operators. For TE it's pretty good.
My op-z is one of my favorite sequencers/grooveboxes but the case is poorly designed and prone to double inputs due to how flexible it is and the keyboard is plastic soldered to the case so not really repairable. For the money this looks like a better physical design, and unlike pocket operators can use midi for sync.
But that's 3x the price and doesn't have a pad, but a touch-screen that might be OK for changing config but not the best for playing. Nothing again the Blackbox, AFAIK it's great, but I think it's a completely different beast than the EP-133.
It could be a great upgrade for the (awful and buggy [0] that never got a firmware upgrade even when it's still being sold after 10 years...) AKAI MPX 8.
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[0]: It's so bad that a guy did a "hardware patch" for fixing some of it's MIDI handling problems: https://www.freshnelly.com/mpx8.htm
Haha, those two devices are so different it's not really a useful comparison. One is a sampling groovebox, the other is a sampler module. Use Cases are also totally different. If you want a cheap sampling groovebox with a thoughtful workflow, portable, mic, speaker, battery operated, fun to play with there aren't all that many choices other than maybe the Korg Volca Samples. It's around 3x the price, but it easily has 3x the functionality.
Ha! I'm teetering on the edge of buying a MicroFreak. There's no way I could justify the cost of anything from TeenageEngineering - though £299 isn't as steep as I was expecting from these. Stay Strong!
I have to back up the others: just buy the microfreak, it is awesome.
It was my first hardware purchase, and I am so glad I got it. They keep adding functionality via firmware updates, so recently they added sample playback to it, along with granular synthesis.
I added a volca drum and a multi effect pedal to my hardware line up, so now I can head out to my local pub and jam out without needing a laptop with me, and the whole setup fits in an old messenger bag.
Sounds like a neat set up! I've got the Volca Sample for the beats. Does audio go from Drum to Freak to headphones; and does the Freak control clock for the two?
There are the not really serious issues that still exists after firmware update:
- When you quickly tap the pitch strip at the right edge few times, the screen turns off for a while (but it comes back up at next user input)
- When connected via USB to my PC, and when arpeggiator with UP mode is enabled, then a first touch on the keyboard on any note will cause a Midi Start message to be sent to a DAW (and thus starting a playback)
- Pressing octave up/down, shift and arp/sequencer buttons will sometimes result with random note being played.
I like the fact that Arturia managed to squeeze new synthesis types and find a space for more presets in V5 update. I have my synth connected to NTS-1 which acts as a FX processor and i really recommend that setup as it sounds much better.
Can't help but feel it's their gameplan. And I try to remain non-reactive, but I thought it was smart.
That toy car looked ridiculous, but not completely out of line with their shenanigans in the past. So it seemed somewhat "in character."
And then to immediately follow-up with a way more useful, beautiful, functional, cool and interesting product that's "only" $50 more expensive – with all the anchoring price point tactics and such dialed-in – and is like, 3x less than their OP-1 was (maybe even more), and "only" 2-3x more expensive than their higher-end pocket operators that essentially have similar functions... Then I do think they know exactly what they're doing.
All that being said, it absolutelye worked on someone like me and I bought one lol. I was so, so ready to be offended and be presented with more egregiously expensive-but-useless doodads. But $300 for a slick sampler... That's really not bad at all. Considering the Roland 404 is $200 more, and some other audio gadgets I bought with less functions are in the $200 range.
This thing is an upgrade over the po33, but it's not anywhere close to the same league as the 404. This is less of a criticism of TE and more of a credit to the incredible depth of features they've packed into the 404mkii.
This, the 404mkii is a really strong machine on all fronts, if they manage to give us a proper looper in this year’s software update I will be over the moon.
I like TE but their gear always ends up being closer to a toy than anything. It’s really fun but it mostly ends there.
Elektron and Roland devices end up being much more versatile and professional in the long run.
SP404mkii pros: DJ mode, SD card slot up to at least 64 Gb, 16Gb(!) internal memory for 16 projects 160 samples each, works as an audio interface over USB-C, full size 1/4" jack input and outputs, 33 effects with 3-6 parameters, 5 configurable effects simultaneously, resampling with effects, skipback recording, rubber pads, looping samples, real-time time stretching, OLED display, on screen wave editing and chopping.
EP-133: 64 Mb internal memory, no SD card slot, 6.3mm jacks, predefined effects (considering the POs these are usually hardcoded with only couple of adjustable parameters), didn't see an unquantizied mode in the manual, but it has note offsets, 9 effects in total, adorable design!
My guess is that EP-133 is very immediate and fun to use but you hit a wall at some point due to lack of storage / limited effects, whereas the 404 will take you from making beats to playing full multi-hour live set and beyond.
You can unquantize actually! at the very least you can with midi input.
I use my po 33 a lot. It's something between a toy and a full fledged device. I've used it 'live' when hosting a pen and paper event i wanted custom music for. Usually though it's something I enjoy using when I want to do something musically without being too 'committed'.
I think there's a lot of value from an item being easy to use and evoking the concept of play. It makes it easy to keep up 'good habits' like music making on days where I dont want to or cant do more.
I find a lot of their gear is very tilted toward not being “committed”. I have an OP-1, the POM-16, and POM-400. I’d love to get a Field and will at some point.
That said, all of these are very much ephemeral to me. I can and do load up different songs on the OP-1, but by and large it’s very much the kind of workflow where you make something and tweak it and, if you liked what you had three iterations back…too bad. And that’s ok.
I recently added a Deluge to my setup and it’s the real glue to the setup (along with a BlueBox). The Deluge can control the OP and the 400, so songwriting all happens in one place and the synths shine in their own unique ways. I can also still use the OP and the 400 to play around, experiment, and make cool stuff that will just go into the ether or maybe a line-in on the Deluge.
Yep! If you showed me that landing page hiding the price, and knowing TE, I would have said that it was going to be at least double or triple the price.
Yeah, very weird. They have a sample prep tool that converts existing samples to the correct format, and obviously the internal sampling records to that rate.
"93.75kHz and 46.875kHz are the sampling frequencies Bruno Putzeys uses in all his digital products for Hypex, Grimm audio, KII, etc.", as outline here[0], for the following reason:
5.2 Clock
The clock circuit is the same as that used in the CC1
except that the sampling rate is set to 93.75kHz instead
of one of the more traditional audio rates. This is specifically
done to improve the performance of the SRC chip.
An uncommon clock frequency reduces the odds that mix
products between the incoming clock and the internal
clock fall inside the PLL loop bandwidth of the SRC.
The thing is, if the sample rate matters with respect to anything other than the Nyquist limit, your filtering isn't good enough.
Relying on spacing between sample clock harmonics to keep beatnotes out of the passband isn't great engineering practice. I have to do that in a relatively-exotic RF application, admittedly, but I wouldn't advertise it as a feature. :) And I'd never choose that approach at audio frequencies. There's just no need.
The concern isn't about the trivial difference in Nyquist frequency, it's about aliasing and dithering when importing/exporting/synchronizing digitally.
1 sample from the EP-133 is 1.0629251700680271 samples at 44.1kHz, or 0.9765625 samples at 48kHz.
(But, again, it doesn't export/synchronize audio digitally, so it probably only matters if directly importing samples.)
As I load up the website, it dithers for a moment before the full image comes up. I love this effect...Have I gone full circle from my dialup days? I think I have...
> Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided.
Not only is it a nice effect.... but the Muhammad Ali landing page is downright insane. That hero image choice is pure gold. It is insanely brave to not put the product in the hero too. Utter envy.
I don't know how they do their math, but they advertise it for 299USD but when I open the store it's sold for 349EUR which today converts to 380USD... That's a 30% difference that hurts.
And often there's also an invisible consumer rights 'tax' on top. Since online purchases and warranty are quite heavily regulated in Europe, sellers often add some margin to cover the extra costs this might bring.
Thanks for the pointers everybody. They make sense. The frustration of seeing a 299 price tag and then being hit with a 349 price after one click on the store link is bad.. Didn't stop me from buying though :D
Speaking in general, prices tend to differ between regions away from just basic exchange rate math, since shipping costs means you don't get proper arbitrage pressure, which is what would pushes prices toward (lowest advertised price) x (exchange rate).
Totally on the same page! The form factor is spot on, and the vibe is just downright cool. But samplers aren't my cup of tea, so I'll wait to see what other gadgets they roll out in this series.
I'm not that good at making beats, don't have deep knowledge on tech specs, or even have good creative workflow (I'm a very enthusiastic dabbler). But The Kount's free sample packs are so good (IMHO), and the beats he makes are certified bangers (he uploads 1 min vids of them on Twitter/ IG/ YouTube). Just wanted to highlight this as well and makes me happy to know.
For a software sampler, I would highly recommend Koala Sampler [1], which has a very easy to use workflow and is modestly priced ($5 for the base version, with sub $5 upgrades). If you don't like it, you probably won't like the EP-133.
There's also hardware trackers like the Tracker and Tracker Mini from Polyend [2] and the Dirtywave M8 [3] that might interest you as well. Their workflow is closer to what you used in the past.
Really depends on the kind of music you wanna make. Since this is a sampler though, you can probably fire up something like reaper (free) or fl studio (less free) and start chopping up your favorite songs to make something new. Teenage engineering makes some really unique hardware though. I own their OP-1 and it’s a hell of a learning curve to get efficient with it but it’s so cool.
I'm not really in that scene, but I know for a fact trackers are going well in their niche. One that I know of is OpenMpt (I'm not good enough to use it properly so I can't speak to how good it is), but there are more.
In general, teenage engineering devices look fantastic and are really capable in the right hands, but they look deceptively simple while they are in fact really complex to make good music with. I know of a few people who burnt $1k on an OP-1 because they thought they could make music easily with it.
I love my PO-33. If I didn't have a SP-404 MK2 I'd be getting this. I still might be able to figure out how to justify it to myself. But really I don't need a 3rd sampler.
The image of Muhammad Ali taunting Sonny Liston to get back up is one of the most famous images in sports. I can’t imagine how much it cost to license.
You think they licensed it, rather than just copying it from google image search? (Speaking as someone whose spouse licenses images and sees people doing that ALL THE TIME.)
Yes, absolutely they licensed it. Teenage Engineering is not a random mom-and-pop shop, and that image is not a photograph that most people wouldn't recognize.
You say that, but you'd say the same about, e.g. The New York Times, and my wife's org has to contact them multiple times a year for using images without permission. They always pay up, but they keep doing it! Khan Academy is another big violator.
They credit the Muhammad Ali Enterprises LLC in the bottom of the page so yeah they got the rights, I mean they are using boxing gloves also on the product pictures.
Edit: even their limited edition packaging has these pictures.
From what I see in their docs [0], you can either record samples directly from their hardware, or use a web tool [1] using Web MIDI (!) to update them. Guessing from the Web MIDI use, probably should be easy to create open tools or even load that page offline to update its samples.
Yes, you'd be able to use whatever samples you want; transfer from the computer ("drag and drop samples using the sample tool") or record them yourself via the input.
What is a "super segment hybrid display"? Looks cool, has VFD vibes, but I assume it's just an OLED with an overlay or something based off in the Verge article "Most of the KO II’s parts are just off-the-shelf components, including the display"
That's my guess as well. Either monochromatic OLED (cheap!) and colored icons (not so cheap?) or the other way around. LCD with front panel might also be fine as long as it's bright enough, and the front panel is dim enough.
Teenage Engineering Syndrome, oppressive proprietary products with undeniably appealing designs. On the surface, this is their bet effort yet. Props for that, I suppose.
And? TE is still one of the worst offenders, and they don’t even have the excuse of being an out of touch legacy musical instrument manufacturing brand.
What do you care? Whether I've made a masterpiece sculpture or skid marks in my dungarees, people deserve powerful tools and instruments that will last.
I like that the old PO line looked like small calculators and this new EP version looks like a big desk calculator that an accountant would use. Nice detail in sticking with the “theme”.
Whereas an Analogue Synth actually does something analogue that (in principle) a laptop could not emulate, a standalone sampler like this is just a digital device in a box with nice buttons, right? So it does the sortof thing you could do on an ipad by paying $5 for a sampler/sequencer app. But it does it in a nice looking physical box with some cool buttons.
I mean, thats fine, but I just want to be clear about that.
Yep - in the same way that you can prepare a meal with a Swiss Army knife instead of using kitchen knives, you can play music on a qwerty keyboard instead of a piano keyboard. You can achieve the same end result, but one tool is more tailored to doing the job.
Right, and its nice to have shiny new tools to play with. But ipads and laptops are actually pretty good for music production too. Not really like preparing a meal with a Swiss Army Knife.
For many -- myself included -- the buttons and encoders make it much easier to play as a musical instrument. When I buy a digital instrument I'm not just buying the sound engine, I'm also buying a specialized controller for playing that sound engine.
Yeah, this is destined for the dusty depths of a desk drawer full of other similarly sexy-looking but ultimately frustrating, useless stuff that was designed with the principle of making it fruity-looking first, and useful to the actual user, last ..
The 1010Music Blackbox is still the pocket-sized sampler to beat ..
A laptop can do a great many things. That doesn’t mean it’s the best form factor for doing it.
Music making devices are very much about the ergonomics of devices and the reduction of friction in workflow. This is also significantly more portable than a laptop, with much lower latency than you would likely get.
When people compare devices, they should really consider not looking at just paper /capabilities and what it means to a user.
> I have a few qualms with this app:
> 1. For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software.
> 2. It doesn't actually replace a USB drive. Most people I know e-mail files to themselves or host them somewhere online to be able to perform presentations, but they still carry a USB drive in case there are connectivity problems. This does not solve the connectivity issue.
> 3. It does not seem very "viral" or income-generating. I know this is premature at this point, but without charging users for the service, is it reasonable to expect to make money off of this?
Curious as to why that's insane? It's on par with / a little less than most streetwear brands. Of course you can buy a hoodie for $25, but you can also buy one for thousands. You're only going to pay what something is worth to you; it's very subjective.
Absolutely gorgeous and like everything else I’ve owned from them it will probably break if I so much as look at it crosseyed. Still this one is actually cheap enough that I might buy it anyway.
