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We No Longer Need a Big Carrier's Wireless Plan. Discount Ones Are the Way (nytimes.com)
43 points by arkadiyt on Nov 15, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 87 comments



Aren't MVNOs deprioritized when there's network congestion? https://old.reddit.com/r/NoContract/comments/oaophe/data_pri...

(I use Google Fi, but it often seems like it has poor performance and issues sending MMS and receiving group texts to/from mixed Android/iPhone groups)

edit: from the article...

> The discount carriers were, on average, up to 46 percent slower than my Verizon connection. That sounds like a lot, but in real-world tests, I didn’t notice a difference

But then...

> “Is it worth it?” he said. “We’re saving about $1,000 a year. I’ll deal with the hassle for that.”


I am using Mint Mobile’s unlimited plan and paying peanuts compared to my partner’s Verizon plan. But their signal is often completely fine where mine even an hour or two outside of a major metro is bad to unusable. Doubly so in large buildings.


I've been on Straight Talk, which was great because they spanned carriers and you could pick whichever carrier worked best in your area. I used T-Mobile with them and coverage + speeds were all around great, in and out of the city.

Then Verizon bought them and forced everyone on their network. My in-city speeds went down significantly (as in, over 75Mbps slower) in the city, and the coverage in rural areas was not any better than my spouse who's on AT&T.

Verizon missed the boat on 5G, they are no longer the one stop shop for coverage that they were.


Frankly even 10MB is much more than an average person need.5G on phone is almost unnoticeable . Best strategy would've been to provide more coverage than faster coverage.

Verizon certainly have but have an excellent network and brand name. At the moment, T Mobile have the most amount of spectrum bandwidth available


10MB? That's like half a Javascript framework


That’s just Tmobile - we have plans both directly and with Mint and the coverage is identical. There are some other first party MVNO’s like Visible which run on Verizon you might be interested in.


To add more, this depends on area a lot. Basically MVNO or not some areas would be better with T-Mobile and some with Verizon.


Yes purely depends on your coverage areas as in few areas T Mob would be better and in other verizon or ATT. Best is to get a sense of the area you mostly spend time in. For home/office. Wi-Fi calling does the job


Turn on Wi-Fi calling & that'll help with the coverage part. They operate on T-Mobile which generally has sub par coverage. I expect it to improve in a year or so


That only works when you have useable WiFi and that’s far from guaranteed even in a major city.


Was about to post the same thing. On vacation in a major city, one of the folks with us had their iPhone battery drain to nothing while it constantly searched for a Verizon signal using a MVNO. We were on Verizon too, never had an issue, no battery draining.

I personally hate every cell provider and really liked Google Fi, but I constantly had issues receiving text messages and terrible call quality.


Something else must have been wrong, because that's not the way QoS works IIUC. MVNO subscriber equipment receives the same signal strength as the carrier's own subscribers do, but packets are deprioritized, resulting in occasionally slower service with higher latency. But battery draining isn't supposed to result.


There are a few big MVNOs (like Straight Talk) that work across multiple carriers - I bet in the face of deprioritization the phone tried to switch to another network, and kept doing that as the new carrier also experienced congestion.


It's not a real time switching but you've an option to pickup the network and change to a new network if you want .Like it's either or


Oh, interesting! My Pixel 7 seems to run out of battery really fast too (vs previous Pixels, which I've had many of). I first thought it was 5G, but LTE doesn't seem much better. Now that I think about it, I switched to Fi at around the same time... wonder if it's actually that causing the drain?


Google Fi seems to prioritize T-Mobile networks in my experience, maybe monetary related, but they had terrible signal near me. I got an app on the play store to force it to US cell, but I constantly had to switch it. I wouldn't trust the Google Fi app to "automatically choose the best network" _for you_.


I have an old $100/4 line plan (with something like 100gb of mobile data) from total wireless (now total by verizon) which I don't anticipate giving up for a while

When I was using an LTE only device (granted a pretty old one with likely fewer frequencies than a newer LTE device), I would get no service in time square whereas I updated to a phone with 5G and more LTE frequencies (I suspect) and now I get service just fine

I definitely get slow service at high congestion moments but I'm not a heavy user so I generally don't really care (I use my phone mostly to read books/articles that are preloaded as opposed to watching videos like millennials...)


GenX and Boomers are also definitely watching videos too...


I'm sure it's a good calculus for some. Personally I tried one of these and the service was fine the majority of the time, but that savings doesn't look nearly as good when you're traveling for work and can no longer access Slack because you're in a major metro and don't have wifi passwords.

The fact is you're more likely to want cellular data exactly when the MVNO is going to get you de-prioritized. If you never leave home, like a coworker of mine, it's a great deal. If you travel for work it's a recipe for frustration.


This is why, if work wants me to have cellular connectivity, they can buy me an appropriate phone and plan to go with it. It's not my responsibility to have a high reliability plan on my personal phone if I don't care (and I don't - I currently carry a flip phone).

I've played the "combined personal and work phone" game in the past, rather extensively, and have come to the conclusion that it's a sucker's game, because it means you always have access to work - and will therefore spend a lot more time thinking about it than you would with separate devices.


Interesting, I got a MVNO primarily for international travel (Fi has free data and texts in many countries).

What do you do instead? Get a new SIM card everywhere?


There are bunch of apps in app stores that sell tourist eSIMs.


You can also buy a global SIM for like $70 that provides you data in 140ish countries for 365 days


It depends. Every carrier has multiple QCI or service standards in laymans' terms. Think of it as boarding priority via zone on the plane. You pay less, you get less. Same goes for coverage wise, where carriers do offer MVNO a choice to have less coverage at significant discount. So ultimately, it depends on the person use


I heard same, but Cricket (AT&T) has not shown issues for me in past 8 or so years we've used it.


Cricket user and I frequently have problems at Costco when it’s crowded but not when it’s empty. Lately I just sign in to the Costco guest WiFi network.


I have AT&T, my partner has Cricket.

I've never been in a situation where my partner didn't have signal but I did.


Were you able to confirm usability at the time when you both had signal?


Yes, they usually are.

Some offer premium data which is prioritized but whether or not that’s the same priority as post-paid traffic is not clear.

Even on post-paid, the plan you’re on can determine network priority. I usually carry two phones and sometimes the MVNO SIM data is completely unusable.


> premium data which is prioritized but whether or not that’s the same priority as post-paid traffic is not clear.

The details are a bit sparse, but sometimes it's possible to find the QoS class/level listed for a given MVNO and plan, and some of them are indeed identical to that of the network's first-party plans.


Yea. They should be required to disclose this information.


> Aren't MVNOs deprioritized when there's network congestion?

Not as a general rule, although it's common.

I'm using one that's only deprioritized after the first 50 GB per month, and even that only ever on low-rate 5G and LTE.


Are you sure it's deprioritized (as in QCI) and not just throttled?


Yes, it's actually deprioritized: Just as fast as always when not in a congested cell, but essentially unusable otherwise.

At least that was the case when I was still using their "deprioritized by default" plan (the non-deprioritized plan has only been around for a year or so).


mind sharing the name of the MVNO that does it after 50GB/mo?


Visible. They're on (and actually a subsidiary of) Verizon.

I've had their deprioritized plan in the past, and that oscillated between faster than my home fiber connection (when not congested) and completely unusable (when in crowded cells).


My experience with Visible is exactly the same. I've seen < 50 KB/sec regularly.


US Mobile's "Warp 5G" (Verizon) has the same priority as Verizon's own plans as long as you're using a 5G device.


T-Mobile Connect prepaid has low prices ($15 for 3GB) including hotspot usage. No MVNO. It was a gov-mandated condition of the Sprint merger. No international coverage. Wi-Fi SMS/voice for international use on Wi-Fi or data eSIM. Monthly data quota at each tier increases by 500MB in 2024 and 2025.

For basic international coverage, reloadable prepaid eSIMs can be purchased online, some with international roaming. But high latency back to the originating telco can make those unusable for voice traffic. Good enough for web/text. Sample price: $75 for 15GB for 365 days, in 144 countries. Use with VPN to make traffic opaque to random telco selling the eSIM.


I've been using a discount, prepaid MVNO since 2012, and I'm stunned that so many people in my real-life social circle still haven't heard of these things and just keep paying the "big carriers" multiples of what I've always paid for essentially the same thing.

These days my cost is down to just $5 per month (Red Pocket GSMA annual plan). 500 MB of data is plenty for messaging apps, driving directions, and very light web browsing when I need to look up things while on-the-go without WiFi.


Researching this stuff and managing data usage like that is not worth the ROI for most people.


The Mint unlimited plan is still only $35/mo, and I’m sure there’s something cheaper out there. That’s still a whole lot cheaper than the big carriers, with zero of the data usage management.


Right, managing low data usage like I do definitely requires some thoughtfulness, but it's orthogonal to the choice of using a big carrier vs. MVNO, except for the fact that big carriers won't even sell you a low data plan.

To his point, however, I acknowledge that saving a few hundred dollars per year just isn't worth it to many people when they can walk into an AT&T store, sign whatever the salesman puts in front of them without thinking about it, and have the salesman take care of all the required setup.


Is it that much cheaper? I'm on T-Mobile's $70 plan (it is $5 or $10 more expensive now I believe) which includes unlimited 5G data (no throttling), unlimited tethering, unlimited data when traveling abroad, HD video streaming (all discount carriers limit this to 720 or even 480p), Netflix, Apple TV, free in-flight internet, and a free iPhone 14 Pro that will be fully paid off as long as I keep my plan active for two years.


That sounds like a good deal if you actually want and use all those things.


Yeah agreed, I just don’t need all that so it’s not worth it to me, personally


Meanwhile, an unlimited family plan on a big carrier is like $45/mo. Ten bucks less isn't that much.

I don't think I know anyone who's using a single plan, though I'm sure they're out there.


I just looked at the AT&T plans and it appears that two lines with unlimited data would cost $120 per month (before they add on who knows what additional fees that aren't included in that price). The price for more lines goes up from there.


That's total, right? That's still only $60/mo, and it goes down with more people. Most big carriers are like $45 to $50 after 4 or 5 people, which is similar to what Fi costs.

But yeah the misc fees are annoying, especially if you ever travel or call overseas.

Edit: Wait, are you implying that Mint's pricing is $35 total, not per line?? No matter how many lines?


$120 is the total (minus fees) that I see for two lines. I thought you were suggesting that you could have a whole family paying just $45 in total.

Setting aside unlimited plans for the moment: You can get 5 GB of data per month, which seems pretty generous to me, on an MVNO for only $15 per line.


Ah, sorry for the confusion there. I should've specified.

The family plans (whether on big carrier or MVNO) get cheaper per line while going up in total price. But yes, not everyone needs unlimited.


Out of curiosity, what service do you use and how much do you pay for it?


Not OP, and they said what they use (Red Pocket) but I also pay $5/mo for service from Tello ( https://tello.com/ ). 500MB/mo, data only, calls through Google Voice via data. (100 minutes of voice $1/mo extra.) Lots of choice in building your own plan.


Have switched from a 90$/month ATT plan to a 30$/month Mint plan, all unlimited.

Yeah the coverage is maybe slightly worse and I'm sure that I get "deprioritized" but worth the 720$/year of savings.


This reads like an ad. (That being said, I've only ever used budget carriers and they've worked fine for the most part.)


No international roaming (or crazy prices) is one of the big downsides of MVNOs. And no, I'm not interested in buying a local sim card. Roaming is quite affordable these days with the big three and the hassle is not worth it for me.

If you don't need that, I think trying some MVNOs make sense.

Another item is hotspot - typically MVNOs upsell that into a higher tier plan, although presumably not all of them.

That said, if aren't willing to bounce around, prepay months, etc... and are careful about buying new phones on decent promotions, I think the big three are not nearly as much more expensive as the article suggests.

EDIT: I should say, I do have to make phone calls with my existing number, and can't always use wifi or app calling, so I am more inclined to use roaming. I guess for many esim apps work well.


Google Fi has provides service internationally at no extra charge, and I've never had any issues using it as a hotspot.


Fi has phenomenal international data and text (free on the unlimited plan), and cheap calls. That's the primary reason I chose it.

I think they basically piggyback off T-mobile's international partnerships.


You don't really have to get a physical one anymore. I got an eSim from Airalo in several different countries and they worked great.

The only downside is that u can't do iMessage from your actual number.


> do have to make phone calls with my existing number, and can't always use wifi or app calling, so I am more inclined to use roaming. I guess for many esim apps work well.

Your existing number can be routed via a 2nd/data eSIM via "Wi-Fi calling", for voice and text.


Wait, what, how does that work? I don't think the phone treats a second cellular connection as wifi calling for the first sim, does it?


It worked on iPhone SE3 with iOS 16, don't know about other configurations.


Whoa, that's really cool. I didn't know that was possible. Thanks!


Interesting thanks, I'll try that next trip.


What do you mean by roaming here? Assuming it's data, the big 3 are not affordable in my opinion.

Version and AT&T each charge $10 per day for international data, and T-Mobile's cheapest plan with international data is $90/month.


T-mobile has free low speed data, reasonable calling/text rates and a $35 10-day 5GB pass and $50 30-day 15 GB passes. Works for me to avoid the hassle of local sims.


Airlo makes this pretty painless: https://www.airalo.com/


Interesting, thanks. I didn't find that mentioned anywhere on their site. That does seem decently affordable.


If you're traveling international you should just use an esim app instead.


It's not clear to me why the big asset owning carriers would continue to allow MVNOs. At some point the cannibalization from their own businesses is going to outweigh the revenue from the MVNO.


Maybe they don't have a choice:

"in May 2000, legislation passed that required network operators with significant market power to open up access to their infrastructure."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_opera...


They don't just allow them, in some cases, they own them.(ex: at&t owns Cricket). There's a lot of price discrimination happening to try to get people to pay their maximum price for service.

For example, I'm on Fi with my android, but my wife has an apple watch with cellular connectivity, and the only game in town was to shell out for at&t.


Plenty of reasons.

- They are selling spare network capacity, and throttling MVNO traffic during peak usage times.

- The existence of MVNOs means they themselves can target the mid-high end market and don't have to advertise cheaper plans on their website and under their brand. In some cases the big carriers themselves own MVNOs.

- In addition to consumer facing MVNOs, these carriers also make a ton of money from operators of stuff like IoT networks, GPS trackers, vehicle manufacturers and really anything that needs internet access.


They also roam less.

It's not really that confusing that they would want to brand a lower quality service differently.


I think this might be it: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B...

I'm not sure if the large networks are called Local Exchange Carriers (LECs), but if they aren't I presume there are similar resale requirements for them anyway.


I wonder if the value brands could be just as profitable due to less marketing and support.


If you get service through a cell tower and all other network infrastructure owned and operated by AT&T then you are on AT&T's wireless plan. Whether they sell it to you directly or through a discount MVNO isn't that big a distinction.

A small number of people filling up a tiny bit of spare capacity on a big carrier's network is hardly the revolution the article makes it out to be. You are simply on AT&T/Verizon/TMO's lowest tier plan, which just isn't advertised as such to preserve their brand.


You also deal with payments and support through the MVNO though. Sometimes (like with Google Fi) they can be a LOT better than the actual carrier's outsourced support.

Many MVNOs can roam between multiple carriers too, which may or may not improve reception.

Some MVNOs also have international partnerships. In the US that's unusual for the big carriers themselves except for T-mobile (which is German, I think?). Fi's international services are dramatically more affordable than AT&T or Verizon's.

I think it's similar to the multi cloud discussion, just applied to telecoms.


Sure but just because you are dealing with a company that AT&T outsourced its billing and support to doesn't mean you are somehow sticking it to AT&T. As long as they operate the towers they will continue to own the market.


I don't think it's a vendetta to stick it to the telecoms, just pay less for service. If the carriers themselves operated these services (like Verizon and Visible), people would still use them.

Besides, for the multi carrier ones like Fi, that means they can switch the underlying partners. I'd much rather deal with Google than the big carriers.


If you are in Miami, you can get unlimited data plan for $5/month.

https://blog.hellohelium.com/hi5unlimited/


I moved off of AT&T when they stopped subsidizing phones (7-8 years back) and have been with Cricket Wireless since; works great, the only thing I'm missing is roaming in Europe (I usually pick up a cheap local SIM, but would prefer to keep my US number connected for the inevitable "fraud" calls from the credit cards when using them in Europe).


esim usually lets you do two numbers. At least on my iPhone I can. One for local number, could use the other for a temporary one for travel


Can't read full story behind the paywall, but this is what we do in our household, and use Cricket Wireless. It's been fine? Though I suppose we aren't mobile power users, but I like that it's less than half what we'd pay for Verizon, etc.


I've had Tello for a few years now. For about $10 a month, I get 1GB of data and unlimited text and phone calls, which is more than enough for me.



I know its a luxury but paying for a new phone every year on the best provider in my area is 100% worth it. I never worry about the battery dying, having good reception, etc... This cost maybe $100 dollars a month extra but its worth it to me.




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