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Source: Google Pixel 8 will get more Android OS updates (9to5google.com)
26 points by falcon_ on Aug 29, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 57 comments



This is a laudable effort, but maybe the Pixel team should first focus on feature updates not completely messing up their phones for months at a time?

Owning a Pixel 4a has been great until the first major Android update, which made the "Adaptive battery" feature discharge the phone within two hours in standby. The fix didn't come for more then a year (!). A very similar thing then repeated with the next major update. One would think buying a phone from the main developer of the OS would come with more stability, reliability, and attention to detail, considering the argument of "oh, but it has to support a hundreds of thousands of phone models, not just 3 a year like Apple" is moot.

What good does 8 years of support do if the phone is borked after 3?


For what it's worth, I personally can't remember any issues with my Pixel 6 after any update so far.


Occasionally I flash a pixel device back to an old firmware.

Every time, I am surprised how speedy and lag-free it feels.

I would really like a 'security updates only, no other updates' phone, because I value speed over some UI redesign or whatever is in the next android update.


I realize my experiences are anecdotal to the two Pixel 4a phones in my family, but the numerous reddit threads about the Adaptive Battery issue (4a) and the later unexplained stand-by battery drain (4a & 7) seem to show that I have at least not been the only one experiencing this.


Android has been having battery drain issues since forever. All it takes is some random app, library, system service or driver to get into an infinite loop waiting for something that will never happen, and suddenly battery life is cut down from multiple days to just a few hours.


Probably some Google employees bonuses are tied to selling new phones so they conspire to phase out older models.

The big might be unintentional, but bug prioritization surely is not.


Who would buy a new phone after their old one was turned into a dud?


Most people? I think most will think they were unlucky and don't blame Google, so they are likely to buy another Pixel too.


more than people not buying any phones


The article mistakes that iPhone has any support guarantee. It doesn't. The latest iPhone might stop receiving security updated a week after it ships. Or a century.

In practice, Apple has shipped updates longer than competitors, but there is no guarantee. With Android vendors, there's a guaranteed support life.

It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies.


My iPad 5 which at this point is older than the hills got an OS update last week or so.

It’s actually amazing. I switched from android to iOS basically for this reason and am not disappointed. Yet.


Apple doesn't really have a choice except to offer long support.

Android should offer long support windows, & the hope is there we will someday see this growing significantly (Project Treble & others).

But, Android devices let you install your own OS (if you can get an unlock, caveat #1). The device might not be supported by the manufacturer, but it's still possible to support the device. Which by virtue of being Linux needs to have sources available. Caveat #2, it's often a terrible vendorized kernel that will be incredibly difficult to use (but again Project Treble is trying to tilt the needle here). There's huge caveats, but at the same time, there's also a lot of quite old devices out there that can run quite modern OSes, without the manufacturers help. Which is something no iPhone iPad or iTv can do, and there's seemingly nothing on the horizon with promise to unbind these devices from Apple.


apple _de facto_ ships software + security updates for many many years, and does so longer than google.

who cares if android has _de jure_ lifetimes, as they are shorter. apple won’t suddenly stop giving any devices updates after 1yr, so it doesnt really matter


It's still more complicated than that.

Apple ships OS updates for longer, but not all features make it to the older devices, even when they're not bound to specific hardware. Also devices that don't get OS updates might as well be dead. Third party software support becomes non existent, Safari gets locked in time, the usability significantly decays.

In comparison Google decoupled their framework updates from OS updates a while ago now, and there will be enough third party options to keep the device useful long after the official support has ended. The Pixel 4a's support has ended, but it's still a useable device, where the iPhone 6S is already losing some apps that stopped supporting iOS15 completely.

At the end of the day, I don't think both approaches make that much of a difference.


iphone 6s came out in 2015. pixel 4a came out in 2020.


Let's take the Pixel 1 then.

You can still update the play services [0] or straight root it and install another OS

[0]: http://google-play-services.apk.watch/23.06.17%20(040400-511...


Pixel 1 was released in 2016, you have to root to upgrade OS, but not able to upgrade Android major versions.


Apple is a weird company. They will provide software updates for their phones for longer than for their computers. Computers that have lost support still get some security updates (not all).

They won't go full Wish.com phone on you, but with the prices of modern smartphones (€556 for the cheapest model, doesn't even come with a charger) I think the question "can I use this for five years or for eight years" is fair to ask.


The difference being the computers are still usable, the phones, being so locked down, basically become bricks without updates.


How come? When you stop receiving macOS updates Safari becomes a dead man walking, just like with phones. I seriously doubt anyone uses their Mac without browsing the internet


You can use alternate browsers. You can also install linux on old macs. Or even windows on x86 macs.


> It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies.

Personally, I trust past performance much, much more than written policies.

After all, the written policy doesn't promise the updates won't slow down the phone, or fill up its storage, or drain the battery faster, or introduce new ads and tracking - so in practice you're trusting past performance anyway.

And if I've got a written guarantee of updates and the company doesn't deliver, am I going to sue them? That sounds like a lot of hassle.


There is also no quality guarantee for guaranteed Android updates.

Many Android devices I have owned introduced new bugs with the updates that where then never fixed for these devices.


Unfortunately such a guarantee might me worth less than a vendor just keeping to push updates. I personally have been a bit disappointed how HMD Global(Nokia phones) handled their update promise.


That difference doesn’t matter at all in the real world.


Until it does.


"when pigs fly"...

Edit: I've owned almost 10 Google android devices: nexus 5, 6, 5x, pixel 1, 2, 3, 6 pro, and a couple tablets

Of those, maybe 2 of them were stable after 2 years. Who cares if Google "promises OS updates" for 5 years if the updates are so unstable that the phone is unusable.

Meanwhile, it's not uncommon for people to be using 3+ year old iphones with no complaints. My iphone 11 (~4 years old) feels much snappier than my pixel 6 pro (~2 years old).


The only OEM that does officially guarantees updates support timeframes is Google

Samsung claim a support timeframe but they never released a page like Google's one (https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en) as far as I know

And even if we use Samsung claims as some sort of guarantee, we also need to take into account that while Google use the "at least" terminology, Samsung uses "at most" or "up to". Which basically means that they commit to nothing since a "up to 4 years of updates" (with one major update per year) could both means 1 or 0 updates or 4 updates


To be honest, most OS feature updates are completely useless. Case in point:

- Android 13 comes with a new media player that puts album artwork on full display and features a dancing playback bar. - You're in control of which apps can send you notifications—helping you limit distractions. [Is that a new feature??] - Send and receive messages even when your phone’s out of reach by streaming your messaging apps directly to your Chromebook.

https://www.android.com/android-13/

Is that some sort of joke? Just patch the security holes so I can safely use my banking app and that's it. I don't need a redesigned music player.

And then of course, there's the problem of new releases hogging resources and introducing buggy behaviour. At this point, I'd prefer a promise of "never new features and 8 years of security."


The main reason for wanting OS upgrades as a consumer is that app developer tend to only support the last N versions. So at some point you’ll find that you can no longer use the apps you want to use if you’re stuck on an older version.


Hence why Google are forcing an API-level bump on app developers https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37280972


Does anyone keep a phone for close to 8 years?

Don't get me wrong this is a good thing but in my experience at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours. Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then. Even if you could replace the battery, the physical wear and tear is quite substantial I find (they're tools after all)

I suppose if you have been ultra cautious and basically leave your phone at home on the charger 90% of the time and keep it wrapped up in some huge case then it is conceivable that you might approach 8 years... But then if you are like this barely even use the phone, why not just get a feature phone?


> at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours.

Yes, this is why user-replaceable batteries (which mobile phones had for many years) are important. So much so that the EU has passed legislation to force the industry to do the right thing. [1]

> and keep it wrapped up in some huge case

Depends on your phone, but I believe there's plenty of reasonable options to protect your pocket computing device that aren't "some huge case". Further, you should always invest in a decent screen protector. Scratches and damage to the screen impacts the usability of a slate form factor smartphone (since other than one or two hardware buttons, the entirety of your interaction with the device takes place through the screen).

> Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then.

Why does some scuffing on the edges of the bezels turn a device into "junk", for you?

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...


We hand down pixel phones within the family and I'm the last one. Yeah battery is not the best any more but it's enough for a day and I leave it in on the charger over night. I'm also one of those people with those ugly black cases because I tend to drop my phone when I'm on my bike etc.

Most of the people I know don't change their phones because of battery issues but because there is a new phone on the market and they don't want to look cheap before their friends and colleges. The actual reason they tell if you ask them why they changed it is: "because it was slow". I can believe that too though since it already came bloated and the kept on downloading crap apps so...I guess the market is more happy with them than with my family.


> at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours

Then replace the battery and enjoy your phone. I still have 5+yo phones I use to listen to music at the gym or as a GPS with offline maps when cycling, and having a secure and up to date OS is nice.


I take my 2019 iPhone XS to the Apple Store where they replace the battery for like $60something bucks. Never really gotten much wear and tear from these phones outside of cracked screens from hard drops (which I wouldn't classify as wear and tear). I completely lack any desire for new phone hardware so the new battery makes financial sense.


Well, they continue to be sold for 2 years or more, which demonstrates the paucity of the 3 years of updates from the release date.

Meanwhile Apple quietly is bugging me to update my 9 year old ipad.


What is stopping anyone from doing just that? Limiting factors include battery, security updates, software updates, performance, hardware durability. I still use a Pixel (first edition, released in 2016). Both performance and hardware durability are very good. The battery is not great, but still good and it provides enough juice for at least one full day without excessive use. User-replacable batteries and guaranteed software/security update would make it even better. We should aim for long usage of these devices.


> in my experience at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours.

Depends on how you use it. I usually don't drain more than roughly 10% a day. I don't use my phone if I have a pc handy (which is most of the time). If I'm at the office or at home (which is most of the time) the phone will stay plugged-in.

1000 cycles in 3 years is almost a full cycle a day. It may have happened maybe once to me to use that much battery (I was using it as a GPS with no external power). Hell, my current phone's battery went down to like 40% after a long weekend away when I forgot to bring my charger.

So I guess I'm like your example. And the reason is that I use my mobile phone while out and about. Turns out, I don't go out much. Yes, I'm careful with it, but don't have it wrapped in a huge case. It only had a thin silicone case because the iPhone 7 was extremely slippery. It spent countless miles attached to my motorbike's handlebars in the sun and rain, doing GPS duty. When I stopped using it because the battery was starting to bulge, it was still otherwise looking brand new and the performance was still enough for my needs.

Don't know of any feature phone able to do that.


I have my old Oneplus One as a backup phone, mostly for authenticators and stuff. It's definitely not as fast as a modern phone and the battery is worn down, but it's definitely good enough for messaging, video calling, browsing, and video playback. If I can find an AliExpress battery for it, I would expect the thing to last me as long as my current phone does.

The only problem with it is that the original software left it at Android 5.1, which is unusable in terms of app support these days even with compatibility libraries. Custom ROM support has managed to get Android 11 (still receives monthly updates!) on the device years after Oneplus dropped the phone, but if a bunch of volunteers can keep the phone updated, a company making hundreds of billions of dollars per year definitely could.

I think a significant portion of the population could (and would) still use a reasonably priced high-end phone from ten years ago after a battery swap. If the software wasn't rushed out, I don't see why eight years is that impossible to attain.


> Does anyone keep a phone for close to 8 years?

Ask and ye shall receive: I'm actually a little over 6 years into my BlackBerry KeyOne (though I will concede that I am an outlier).

> if you could replace the battery, the physical wear and tear is quite substantial

That's why I'm still using it. Parts are dirt cheap. There's scant little glue to dig through for anything that needs to be replaced, and it's easy to work on. It's been dropped so many times the only original-to-this-phone parts are the mainboard and damn SIM tray.

Beyond that, there are no other options. There is nothing meaningfully better that includes a notification LED, physical keyboard, reasonable battery life (due to chipset and smaller screen), SD card slot, 3.5mm jack, and has spare parts for reasonably low cost (ruling out later BlackBerry handsets).


I have a phone going on 6 years now. Replaced the battery a few years ago and slapped on a custom ROM once mine was invariably not supported. I don't have a huge case on it or keep it plugged most of the time.

It's my daily driver, so I use it all the time and it basically runs everything I need.


I'm not sure there are people who are buying new phones every 8 years. But buying a used 2-3 year old iPhone, using it for 3 years and then handing it down to be used another 3 years by someone else is very common around here (Germany).


If I had an easily replacable battery and updates on my phone for that long, I would. Right now mine is 3 years old and still perfectly adequate in terms of hardware, but I can't because it will stop getting security updates soon.


I have a 5 year old phone, running Android version that still allows recording phone calls and for banking.

I have a second much newer phone just for content consumption, but I don't make any important calls from it.


While I can clearly see how good iPhones are, I love my Android phones. The choice of choosing between different manufacturers is great for me. For example, I have been riding an Oppo Find X3 Pro, and I love it. The main problem that I see, is that while Apple concentrates in 4 phones per year (iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone Pro, and iPhone Pro Max), which all have more or less the same internals. Most Android manufacturers release 2030 phones per year, which different internals. The burden of supporting so many phones, is what kills any chance of long term support on Android IMHO. Imagine, in 10 years, Apple has to support 40 phones. In the same 10 years, Samsung or Xiaomi have to support 300 phones. The crazy thing is that most times, the difference between phones is so small, that I don't get what they do it.


That's a self-made problem, aka business decision. Samsung could release only 2 phones per year if they wanted to.


Correct. I am just elaborating on one problem that they need to fix.

I imagine they can do 5~9 phones per year and the situation should improve drastically.


Switched to iPhone since I did not want to throw away another perfectly fine phone because of lacking security updates.

Had a Nokia 8 before and would still have it if Nokia kept supporting it. Some things (e.g. Keyboard, VPN integration) were superior to my new iPhone.


It looks like there is an unofficial LineageOS build for the Nokia 8.

Most people don't bother, but on popular Android phones, community support can extend the life of the phone way beyond what the manufacturer provides.


What’s your approach on evaluating an unofficial build?


This article will be giving a better picture by simply adding a table with companies/models, years of support, os upgrades, security patches. Will summarize vastly what is saying with several paragraphs in a simple digestible table.

Data journalism skills should be embedded in every news team.


I don't like this article as they don't differentiate security updates and features updates :/


> will get two more years (24 monthly security patches) that should let you comfortably keep using your phone albeit without major operating system updates during those last two years

I think that's pretty clearly defined in the article.


Google is quite sneaky with updates: I own a Pixel 4a, which has guaranteed major updates ending in August (in a few days), but it's like Android 14 is purposely delayed and will come out most likely in September and thus skipping the 4a


Now if Google would go away from Exynos for Tensor CPU then it would be even better for consumers


Another article, also probably here in HN, mentioned they plan to transition to TSMC in 2026 or something.




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