Ask HN: How bad is the current draft trademark policy of the Rust Foundation?

[fossheart]

I just heard that if you use the term "Rust" or the Rust logo you can be sued by the Rust Foundation. I love Rust, but this move makes me question a lot about the future of Rust.

RFC Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdaM4pdWFsLJ8GHIUFIhepuq0lfTg_b0mJ-hvwPdHa4UTRaAg/viewform

IMO, Rust has gathered a lot of attention. And I know too much of something is harmful. This move says that Rust Foundation wants to gatekeep. I have heard a lot about how if you keep your circle small, you are able to reach great heights, since you are the average of the people you are with. Say a group of Rust elitist promoting the Rust project. It is good, but what about the newbies or the ones not endorsed by the Rust Foundation. Are they really such a nuisance? I think the focus should not be about surviving and evolving into having the longest technological reach. But be more selfless, and let others put in efforts to reach that longest technological reach. In the end I think the Rust foundation should be fully ready to leave Rust in the hands of the next generation of hackers and dreamers.

[soulbadguy]

Not a lawyer nor a rust dev. But looking at the reaction on twitter and youtube, this policy doesn't seem well received and most people seems to echo your sentiment.

I think most of us understand the need to bring some consistency to echo system which might help both new comers and industry adoptions. It seems that this both poorly worded and more importantly decided (as in drafted) without really consulting the community.

I am surprise i am not seeing more comment about this seeing as anything rust is usually a big news on HN.

[Fnoord]

I remember Linus Torvalds about defending the Linux name and logo trademark (back in early 00s). If you don't actively defend it (somewhat), you lose the ability to defend it later on. So its probably a precaution for just that. Nothing more than showing their teeth.

[dagmx]

This is a misunderstanding of trademark.

You are only likely to be sued if you are using it in a way to cause confusion with the brand itself. Like selling product as official merch or trying to make money off being associated with rust.

The document goes to great pains to express all the ways you can still use it.

Tl;dr: this is very boilerplate and similar to many other open source projects. If you’re not trying to capitalize off the brand, then don’t worry about it

[soulbadguy → dagmx]

do you have an example of other source trademark documents ? This one seems different from the one i have seen in the past

For example, this section mandating how a rust conference should be held :

> would expect events and conferences using the Marks to be non-profit-making, focused on discussion of, and education on, Rust software, prohibit the carrying of firearms, comply with local health regulations, and have a robust Code of Conduct.

I am totally for good firearm regulation, and resposible health behavior but can't remember anoter open source trademark document going this far (happy to be corrected though)

[dagmx → soulbadguy]

The python one has similar language though is a little more permissive and doesn’t go into as much depth as the rust one. The feedback the rust foundation is asking for is working as intended and they’re correcting some of their wording accordingly.

https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/

That specific line you mention is with regards to conferences that use Rust in their name.

So if HandmadeCon or GDC had a rust session, that would be fine because it’s not the focus of the conference. But if they called it Rust GameDev Conference , they’d need to abide by the usage rules.

This is to protect from negative associations with the rust brand. After all, you don’t want rust being associated with a mass shooting event or a stampede etc…

[soulbadguy → dagmx]

> This is to protect from negative associations with the rust brand. After all, you don’t want rust being associated with a mass shooting event or a stampede etc…

So we exclude people who have strong feeling about carrying firearms?

[dagmx → soulbadguy]

if you feel the need to carry firearms to a programming convention, then yeah I’m okay excluding them.

Many events, including the NRAs own events, prohibit the carrying of firearms in part or in full. This is normal.

[justinclift → throwntoday]

Dude, c'mon. :(

[fossheart → dagmx]

I am not sure about the law, but wouldn't products that are regarded as fanmade or unofficial (like rust awesome repo) come under their trademark policy?

[dagmx → fossheart]

Yes and no.

Technically they’d be in violation of the existing trademark if they were using the Rust name for financial gain. The new proposed rules don’t change much in this regard.

https://foundation.rust-lang.org/policies/logo-policy-and-me...

If they’re not commercial and aren’t trying to appear official, then they can most likely get away with just having a disclaimer saying they’re not endorsed or affiliated.

Intent and the effects of use are very important.