Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Why would someone prefer to live like ants? Moving from a large place with a forest backyard to a tiny apartment is a lower standard of living. You live in an apartment and trade away personal space and still have to take a train to work where you get little personal space.

People can be happy in an apartment but most would trade that in for a house they could afford it.



> prefer to live like ants

Unnecessarily inflammatory wording. (Don't use the popular "shoebox" either.)

> Moving from a large place with a forest backyard

Most Americans live in suburban houses and over 90% of suburbs don't have a forest backyard. You're painting a sunny caricature.

> tiny apartment

Apartments come in a range of sizes, easily from 300 sq ft to 2000 sq ft. You get what you pay for. With houses, the minimum size is so large that many people have no choice but to overpay for space they don't need.

> lower standard of living

Being in proximity to people, shopping, and businesses, as well as having a shorter commute to work, contribute to a higher standard of living.


> Being in proximity to people, shopping, and businesses, as well as having a shorter commute to work, contribute to a higher standard of living.

I live in a suburb. I'm in proximity to people, shopping and businesses. In fact, I'm in closer proximity to shopping and businesses than most residential areas in the closest city. Most of the large employers in my area are also in the suburbs so, commuting would be even longer living in the city since it would involve taking public transportation or driving from the city to the suburbs. Even if I lived and worked in the city walking, taking a bus or the subway from residential areas to the employment centers would take longer than my 15-minute commute.


I live in an apartment in a city (not in the US). Walking distances from my home:

Pharmacy - seconds (right in the next building)

Bar - seconds

Supermarket - 1 minute

Bakery - 1 minute

Greengrocer's - 1 minute

Children's playground - 1 minute

Beach - 1 minute (OK, not representative of every apartment dweller, I'm privileged) :)

Stationery shop - 2 minutes

Bookshop - 2 minutes

Bank branch with ATM - 3 minutes

Amazon locker - 3 minutes

My son's school - 4 minutes

High school - 4 minutes

Health center - 6 minutes

Park - 7 minutes

Library - 7 minutes

Theatre - 13 minutes

Cinema - 15 minutes

Commute - 3 minutes walk to bus stop, buses every 5 minutes, 15-minute trip

Train station - 25 minutes

For me, moving to a house where I would need a car or much longer walks for most of those things would be a huge downgrade in standard of living, not an upgrade. Sure, I would have more space. Not worth it at all.


What about not having to hear your neighbors? What about not having to worry about your neighbors hearing you? Maybe you like listening to loud music at night. Maybe you want a home theater. Maybe you want to play your piano/drum any time of the day.

I think you're underestimating how nice it is to have space.


Everything you are talking about exists at least as much in the suburbs and then add in the constant mowing, leaf blowing, and weed eating to it too.

> I think you're underestimating how nice it is to have space.

This isn’t a trade we need to make. You can have space and be able to walk to things if we just build right. Take the suburb you live in now. Pick 5 houses randomly and turn those into some of the things the OP mentioned. Now you have your space and walkability. Throw in an apartment and some variations of housing so young and old and people with various incomes can live there too and there you have it. Now we’ve reduce car usage so you aren’t driving 5 miles in a 2,000 lb machine to get a loaf of bread and you still get to keep your car and your space.


The person said they were living in an apartment and would never move to a house. What you're proposing (making 5 random houses into apartments), would probably still have most people living in apartments, so people wouldn't have the room.

Also, I would like to point out people don't drive 5 miles to get a loaf of bread. They buy stuff for the whole week/month in one go, which you just can't do by foot.


> The person said they were living in an apartment and would never move to a house.

Yes and I’m keenly honing on on the benefits they highlighted and how those benefits don’t have to be unique to (as they are describing) a dense urban center with apartment only dwellers. Also the OP could just live in an apartment in a mixed-use, medium density neighborhood. They could be your neighbor even!

> Also, I would like to point out people don't drive 5 miles to get a loaf of bread.

Hey there! Yes it’s me. Fellow suburbanite for many years who can tell you first hand as a 100% fact that people do in fact drive distances like this for a single loaf of bread. You can to it for other items too. “Whoops forget sour cream for taco night”, “oh I’m going to make a beer run”, “better grab milk and eggs for that snow storm!”. Etc.

> They buy stuff for the whole week/month in one go, which you just can't do by foot.

You don’t need to do that and they likely do that (most make multiple trips) because you have to go drive a while to make it to the grocery store and deal with traffic. There’s nothing wrong with walking 10 minutes to grab a few things a few times/week. It’s better and healthier. You’re describing “how things are” and not using your imagination to understand how things could be.

Saving this for last:

> What you're proposing (making 5 random houses into apartments), would probably still have most people living in apartments

I just told you that you can take an existing neighborhood and modify it by transforming a few houses so that they have different functions. This is only limited by zoning. Why in the world would that result in “most people living in apartments”? No apartments would be required!


Not the op, but in a similar situation to them. I can't hear my neighbors and they can't hear me. I can play music/watch TV pretty loudly and they won't be able to hear me. I'd have to throw a rager for anyone to even here a little noise.

My building is reinforced concrete/steel construction. There's proper insulation. The issue in the US is that construction is poor. Construction of single family homes is actually considerably worse than apartments, but you have the benefit of distance.

Better construction is the right answer here, rather than more sprawl.


Forest background? Hah.

Living in an apartment is a compromise. Unfortunately, most apartments in the US do not have much to offer.

Most are not well insulated, particularly for sound. The overwhelming majority are rentals; and most of those are managed by landlords who charge an arm and a leg, only to be less than helpful.

Public transit relies on good apartments, and good apartments rely on public transit. It's symbiotic. The US has largely failed at providing both.

People don't choose what is available in the market. They choose from what is available in the market.


MTR Corp has a great model for this type of development. It would be great to see other governments partnering with them!


> Why would someone prefer to live like ants?

Why would someone prefer to live like a snail?

> Moving from a large place with a forest backyard to a tiny apartment is a lower standard of living. You live in an apartment and trade away personal space and still have to take a train to work where you get little personal space.

A house does not imply a large backyard. Suburbs are the bigger problem, and they don't usually have much forest.

And apartments don't have to be tiny. If you're comparing against a house in a similar location, that buys a lot of apartment space.


> You live in an apartment and trade away personal space and still have to take a train to work where you get little personal space.

You have a limited view of 'urban living'. Want a front yard, back yard, and garage (attached to a laneway)? Plenty of that was built pre-WW2, and there's no reason why it couldn't be again:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0&t=1m8s

The Oh the Urbanity channel has a video on the (misguided) idea that "urban living" = Manhattan / Hong Kong apartment blocks:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmz-fgp24E

Examples (Streetview) of urban tree-lined streets which can support transit and where cycling is practical (and where a car is an option versus a necessity):

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+...

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O...

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/70+Jackman+Ave+Toronto,+ON

See also:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6txCZpbsQ&t=9m28s

Fifteen minutes pedalling in one direction is downtown, fifteen minutes in the other is farm land.


Eh, people can like different things. I think "most feel house > apartment" is way way too broad of a generalization.

You give up space by living in a dense city but gain walkability and more public amenities, and on the other hand if you lived in the suburbs you would give that up for more personal space and - at least in the case of the US - better school districts. If you're rich you can have the plusses of all.


Tokyo and Seul are poor cities full of people just longing for a house, right?


If you would travel to those places you would actually realize how depressing it actually is. They have some of the highest depression rates in the world. They overlfowing with people you can barely walk on sidewalks. Someone explain how that is peaceful and enjoyable to live in.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: