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Mastodon.lol will shut down on May 9, 2023 (mastodon.lol)
79 points by Lammy on Feb 11, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 107 comments

http://archive.today/UeWon in case it goes out sooner

Context seems related to the new Harry Potter game: https://mastodon.lol/@nathan/109836004635134601

> We're not banning people for buying a video game. Express your displeasure to them if you so wish, but that alone doesn't require our attention.

> Related, please don't post spoilers just to spite people. You can justify it to yourself however you like, but you're shouting into a crowd here. Not every HP fan knows J.K. Rowling is a piece of shit, and ruining the days of random bystanders ain't the way to go.

> It will cause problems for myself and .lol in general if it continues. Thanks.

That reads like a lot of the users struggle with juggling things that are in conflict.

- JK Rowling is a tervert(!) and I must tell the world.

- Nobody is allowed to enjoy anything that JK Rowling is indirectly involved with.

- This will get me / my server banned from most of the world because nobody cares.

And since there's no way to compromise, they'll sort by priority and whatever is the most important wins.

It's a hard place to be in as a server admin. You can't really ban these folks or you'll be targeted next, and they are part of the community. If you let them do their thing, other servers will nuke you just to get rid of them.

Will Mastodon get shadow banning?

> and they are part of the community

Is this a community run server or it's this guy/gal's server, and through acquaintances this vocal group ended up there?

From what I could gather, he (it's okay to assume pronouns from 'Nathan', I hope) intentionally created it as "a Mastodon server friendly towards anti-fascists, members of the LGBTQ+ community, hackers, and the like", which includes them. I do think he agrees, which is why he's shutting down the server. If a bunch of people he didn't consider part of the community (e.g. rightwingers, or "trans-exclusionary radical feminists") were doing stuff that put the server at risk of being defederated, I'm sure he would've simply banned them (and would've done so much earlier, because he doesn't care for them).

That's the tricky part, if you ban people that are considered part of your community albeit 'difficult', you'll quickly lose support of the less extreme members, because you're banning people who aren't that far away from them. It affects all communities where the vast majority of members are very similar in their core values and beliefs, and those are self-reinforcing by keeping/driving out people that are too different from them.

In this specific case it wouldn't have been an issue at all if there hadn't been other servers being involved. Basically everyone on this server agrees that Harry Potter is Mein Kampf (slightly exaggerated), they would've all said that they hate the game and how JK Rowling is genociding trans kids and would've mocked the normies that don't get it, but without interacting with those normies (who are on different servers) there wouldn't have been a problem.

Hm. It's definitely a tricky situation, mostly because it has a very strange new kind of social dynamics. Should the admin somehow moderate those on the server who cause some problems on other servers? Well, socially the answer is yes, because we're all in this together, etc.

But like you said, it's likely a community that doesn't want to moderate itself in these topics.

The cited "terminally online" messages are very much the smoking gun for this argument, but ... where's the actual abuse that happens on other/various servers?

That's where I would draw the line. If someone says very hurtful things and use the same domain as me, I think it makes sense to try to ask them to reconsider, and if there's no positive change, then act.

> From what I could gather

I found a summary thread from @jeanburgess@mastodon.lol which broadly agrees with this: https://mastodon.lol/@jeanburgess/109837309981257160 (https://archive.ph/GZtld)

Copying/pasting below for when the instance is gone and the link is unreadable. Sorry for huge.


“So my [@jeanburgess] rough summary of what has gone on at mastodon.lol:

1. The instance dates back to 'early Mastodon', started by a guy known only as Nathan to create an inclusive space for queer and trans folks away from the Twitter cesspit.

2. it has always been a one-man band, with very hardline mod & #fediblock rules against Nazis, TERFs, sexual exploitation, etc., but permissive in terms of (CWed) NSFW content, is now quite popular with all kinds of geeky queers, trans & stans. And generally lovely!

3. for several months there have been tensions and politics around content moderation, as well as clear signs of admin overload and burnout, not helped by said 'one-man band' approach. But lots of good support, patreon $ etc etc and it stayed up despite huge influx of new users.

4. Fast forward to...like, yesterday? as I understand it some ppl wanted anyone posting +vely re new JKR franchise game to get booted out? There was conflict, admin felt harassed, I think it was the last straw...

5. and @nathan announced the instance will be closing in May - and no way is it being handed over to new "owners" (citing privacy concerns wrt the database of users).

6. more conflict ensued, with some posts getting pretty nasty, including going very close to calling the admin a Nazi sympathiser (!! not cool), In turn he instructed some such people to "kill [themselves]" (!! very not cool). The latest post says we "won't be hearing from him again". I'm obviously very concerned for his wellbeing. n/n, lost count sorry, The End for now. Total and quite sudden meltdown, basically. ((and hey, maybe governance, while not punk, is important actually))”

The lesson here is: "give an inch and they will take a mile".

Also, "no good deed goes unpunished".

The insane people in that thread aren't kidding when they use the word "genocide". On Reddit, for example, here is someone claiming that Rowling is "actively funding the genocide of trans youth in the UK" <https://np.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/10xubmv/with_the_...>.

People like that have caused words like nazi and genocide to completely lose their meanings. When you hear someone being called nazi these days you just assume they just mean someone they don't like, same goes with genocide. Not surprised that so many people are now desensitized to real genocide and actual nazi-like regimes/dictators/countries/groups because of terminally online folk.

I was baffled to see this outrage leak into my feed. I follow some developer accounts and several tech and nature related hashtags, but people keep boosting the posts related to this story. It’s a shame, I hoped that Mastodon would offer a good place for discussion between humans, and not the Twitter-like experience.

With regards to the game itself, it is impossible to find any objective information about gameplay or performance online, and all the usual tech publications, including gaming subreddits and forums are either boycotting it or published scathing non-reviews. Any over what?! Looking at the player stats on Steam, the game is enjoying a massive popularity. I think it might be the first time a media product was too big for the outrage crowd to cancel

It is baffling, but I think this is mostly because these activists have obfuscated what this is really about: male rage at women asserting their boundaries and saying no to their female-only spaces being eradicated.

Woof, some of those comments were pretty terminally online.

"The idea that there are people out there who don't know Rowling is a tervert is ludicrous." definitely takes the cake for terminally online. It's quite revealing. The existence of someone who has not had a media diet similar to theirs, one with heavy coverage of the JK Rowling transphobia controversy, is downright inconceivable.

Yep, I'd love for these chronically people to take a poll around school kids, say, under 14.

How many of them know anything about JK Rowling's personal life beyond "I think she's blonde and she wrote the HP books"?

I think it’s actually the opposite. They are so young they will be exposed to the controversy before they know her hair color.

Sample point of 1 and everything, but regarding JK Rowling (whom I had to clarify as the author of Harry Potter), my 11yo youngling has no knowledge about her besides: "I heard that the first Harry Potter book is kind of boring, but the second one gets better." So at least amongst my 11yo's friends, JKR doesn't matter. They talk about currently published series such as Wings of Fire, Keeper of Lost Cities, Whatever After. I think they see Harry Potter as some old series that people read in the past.

I tried Mastodon for a little bit but quit because the community was too much like this.

How's anyone supposed to take you seriously if you perceive an existential threat from a children's author expressing their opinion? One comment I saw claimed that she was literally killing them. I mean...

There are many Mastodon servers and thus communities. exactly with twitter, reddit, etc. it's full of everything, pick what you like. (Reddit makes this easier, Twitter tries to push the most controversial shit in your eyes. On Mastodon instances you see the local stuff mostly.)

https://infosec.exchange has ~50K users, interesting threads (this one was on HN recently https://infosec.exchange/@SecurityWriter/109777576538835360 )

The conflict really comes from the fact that mastodon is not pitched as a social equivalent of subreddits to people but as a twitter replacement. This means people expect to talk to everyone.

But the preexisting fediverse culture is much more insular thanks to the transitive badness logic many servers operate on "your server let's its users talk to the bad people so we'll block your server and all its users". So servers get blocked if they let their users say positive things about cops, Rowling, investment, white people using the term thicc etc.

This had already led to fediverse being really three universes, which I'll call Leftiverse, Japaniverse and Gabiverse. The majority joined the Leftiverse because they're less objectional than the Gab people but this has led to a culture war which I think is ultimately going to end up with the mainstream fediverse splitting into the original Leftiverse and a more mainstream Centriverse.


[Link 1] Article boiling down to JK having an opinion and 5000 buzzwords and off-topic filler (modern journalism)

[Link 2] 1 Dev makes entire team antisemetic? A developer has different opinions than us, how dare he. The only reason WB did anything is because how dangerous the hate-mob can be with threats an PR. Good on WB for not caring about devs opinions when hiring and only how good they can code (AKA their jobs):

> "I'm happy to say that, even though I disclosed my YouTube channel to WB Games, it didn't appear to be an issue for them. Not that they endorse anything that I've said, of course, but at least they seem more concerned with making good games than with pushing some kind of a social justice agenda, so there is hope."

[Link 3] This is reaching so hard. Terminally online people trying to make up an insane meaning for a meaningless item in a video game.

> I suggest reading a little bit about the subject.

Listen, our side has a gigantic blind-spot when it comes to political opinions. We're often college-educated, we hang around with similarly educated people, and we tend to be relatively successful in life, and attributing that to our smarts and education.

So when it comes to politics, we're certain that our choices, our stances, are the smart ones, the educated opinion. And as soon as we encounter a person who doesn't share our opinion, we assume it's because they're not as smart, not as educated as us. They're simply ignorant of the facts around the issue, and if they just had all the facts, they would come around to our enlightened point of view as well.

So, in our magnanimous benevolence, we offer to educate the other person. Here, read this article, check this link, watch this talk. Now, you see? Now you understand, right?

That other people might come to different conclusions, because they have a different world-view, or principles, or because they don't share our vision, it's inconceivable to us. But we're the smart ones. We're the educated ones! If people don't agree, it simply means they're not educated enough, so we must educate them harder, or they're just un-educatable! They're bigots! Neanderthals! Cavemen!

Yes, that is it. We're smart. They're ignorant. Aaahhh, all is right with the world again.

Just take the L on this one. It's a good game. JKR's views on trans people are extremely mainstream. Go fight some actual transphobes instead of this lazy slacktivism, harassing streamers online or spoiling the game for other happy gamers.

I'm not seeing anything outrageous here except that people are so upset for somebody disagreeing with them.

None of these problems seems real. It seems they're just fuel for the outrage mob. Who's ever heard of a 'shofar' horn?

When people throw around scare terms like 'alt-right' it's very hard to take them serious.

I've yet to read a single real problem.


Oddly enough, most people aren't willing to believe piles of made up bullshit just so they can get angry at women standing up for their rights.

Meta: apologies for the hot-button-issue-adjacent submission. I'm much more interested in seeing how the fediverse handles data portability in this sort of relatively large-scale shutdown than in trying to make a statement one way or the other on the issue at fault.

It doesn't. They will lose all their posts. You could say they go the way of the Mastodon.

? It doesn't transfer your posts, but it does transfer [1] all your followers, follows, bookmarks, mute lists, and block lists. That's still a lot of room for error. What happens if you and a follower transfer your accounts simultaneously? Will they get redirected properly? It is still a good test.

[1] https://fedi.tips/transferring-your-mastodon-account-to-anot...

Well, the redirect isn't going to work anyway, because the source server will cease to exist.

As for migrating followers, I hear that it's glitchy, people typically lose a portion of their followers when migrating.

I think nostr is better in this regard:

  - The "account" primitive is just a key pair, but you can layer more auth requirements on top of that.
  - All messages are always signed by your key pair end to end.
  - Server admin can't read your DMs or edit your messages.  The worst they can do is see public posts or delete events.
  - You can move your messages between servers with via piped CLI commands.

    echo '["REQ", "my_mirror_request_id", {"pubkey": "mynpubkey"}]' | websocat -n wss://source | jq -c '[.[0,2]]' -M | websocat wss://destination

Anyway I know there are reservations, but ultimately I think it got many of the "account" things right as compared to other fedeverse projects where the "webmaster" is still a big deal. Ideally the server side of things would be unimportant, the clients can offer compelling experiences, and people can create their own internet cul-de-sacs in a more chill way...

Maybe nostr is not "the thing" but it's better than the mastodon paradigm.

i believe nostr falls prey to the same reasons internet v1.0 largely failed. no one hosts their own blog anymore because consolidation (the likes of squarespace) offer powerful alternatives that give non-internet savvy users understanding of how to navigate globalized society.

i believe in "can but won't fork" mentality is better than this.

  - The "account" primitive is just a key pair, but you can layer more auth requirements on top of that.
all of crypto is like this already

  - All messages are always signed by your key pair end to end.

  - Server admin can't read your DMs or edit your messages.  The worst they can do is see public posts or delete events.

ok, don't trust bad software?

  - You can move your messages between servers with via piped CLI commands.

this is cool, but seems like implementation detail

I don’t disagree. RSS has most of these features and was pretty popular 15 years ago.

My point is that key pairs and signed posts is a good primitive if things are to be re homed and retransmitted.

To that end;

* What tools | methods exist to fetch total members at Mastodon.lol on a daily basis.

* Ditto for individual names and their new migrated names.

Are any HN users planning to grab data and graph present the diaspora to other instances | falling out of sight?

It has none, mastodon is not mature or functional enough to be useful for most people.

It's important to note that you can't take your posts or DMs with you when you migrate Mastodon instances.

I had to migrate a couple weeks ago because my old instance broke for 6 days while the administrator was on vacation and incommunicado, with no backup admins. https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/mastodon2.html

That seems like it could possibly be a GDPR violation, couldn't it?

you can download them, there's just no way to import them into your new account.

GDPR has data portability rights that include the right to ask the data controller to transmit your data to another, if "technically feasible".

It's one sided. They only have to allow exporting. Either via a data dump file or a direct transfer to another service.

It's implied that the importing side will make this work on their own since they only benefit from allowing data imports to onboard new customers while the exporter is losing their customer.

There is no "either". The user has to have the ability to do both. See my reply to Jeremy's comment.

Exporting a json file is certainly transmitting the data.

That's a separate right.

Article 20, Section 1 states:

The data subject shall have the right to receive the personal data concerning him or her, which he or she has provided to a controller, in a structured, commonly used and machine-readable format and have the right to transmit those data to another controller without hindrance from the controller to which the personal data have been provided[...]

Separately, Article 2 states:

In exercising his or her right to data portability pursuant to paragraph 1, the data subject shall have the right to have the personal data transmitted directly from one controller to another, where technically feasible.

None of those say that the destination server is forced to import anything.

This part specifically mentions the controller you originally gave data to, but says nothing about whom you now want to import it to:

> without hindrance from the controller to which the personal data have been provided

Currently it's not technically feasible: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/12423

GDPR's tool for punishing transgressions is fines:

> For especially severe violations, listed in Art. 83(5) GDPR, the fine framework can be up to 20 million euros, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of their total global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher.

> “the concept of an undertaking encompasses every entity engaged in an economic activity, regardless of the legal status of the entity or the way in which it is financed”

These services have no economic activity whatsoever, or if they do it's in the forms of donations to keep the lights on. Who do you propose that the GDPR hammer strikes?

Who should we report then? The instance owner or the protocol developers?

Is Mastodon.lol engaged in commercial or professional services? It may not be applicable.

This is an interesting intersection of services that aren’t necessarily a business. A lot of modern privacy laws are built around the idea that you’re making money from people, and stand to lose that income. I’m not sure that GDPR offers anything different.

Here is the article defining the material scope of the GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-2-gdpr/

It does not seem to make any difference whether the service is engaged in commercial or professional services.

Because of the other person's messages becoming readable to a third party (the admin of the new server)?

Interesting question. Would it be?

I mean it seems like the "Mastodon protocol" could just specify that admins should have no expectation of privacy when they communicate in their official capacity. I'd expect the protocol to eventually support account migrations to allow for the best user experience, resilient to the caprices of power-tripping moderators or just badly run servers.

I don't know the system at all, but aren't the DMs between regular users (or at least also)? Like, you and me are on mastodon.example.org and I'm sending you a message. I can read it (in my sent messages), you can read it (in your inbox) and the admin of that server can read it. But we both agreed to that by signing up to that service.

If I now move to mastodon.example.com and somehow migrate my messages, that server's admin would be able to read them, but you never consented to them having access to (part of) your private messages.

It's similar to email, but we tend to put high requirements on running an email server (concerning data / privacy). I have no idea how that works out on Mastodon, whether it's closer to email or closer to Twitter DMs. E2E messages would probably be best, but then you make it harder for yourself to combat spam and harassment, I assume.

> But we both agreed to that by signing up to that service.

> If I now move to mastodon.example.com and somehow migrate my messages, that server's admin would be able to read them, but you never consented to them having access to (part of) your private messages.

Why do you think there's consent in the first case but not the second case? You voluntarily choose your new instance just as much as you did your old instance.

> Why do you think there's consent in the first case but not the second case? You voluntarily choose your new instance just as much as you did your old instance.

I choose it, but you didn't, and if I migrate private messages exchanged between us, that would affect your personal information.

Just migrating my public posts will not be an issue. I don't know if private messages would be. §20 states in 4 "The right referred to in paragraph 1 shall not adversely affect the rights and freedoms of others."

Well, to be clear, whenever you send or receive a DM, the admins of both instances can read them. Do people who send DMs even pay attention to who is the admin of the receiver's instance? Probably not.

Anyway, the ability to import public posts would be a big improvement.

No, because of data portability rights. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-20-gdpr/

Who would have guessed struggle sessions[1] would come back like this in the digital age? Imagine dying and going to hell and trying to explain to Mao his legacy in terms of Harry Potter, J.K Rowling, Video Games, Mastodon and so forth.


With a perfect example of struggle sessions being found in the thread that trynewideas linked to. What miawgogo and others put nathan, the server owner, through is something to behold.

Whenever we do things, it's somehow China's fault.

The comments are nearly incomprehensible. Probably for the best this place is nuked from orbit.

“Griffindor scarf is a hate symbol.”

Don't forget the struggle session that results from nathan, the server's owner, admitting that he was unaware of the alleged bigotry[1] in the Harry Potter books/films. The resulting taunting of him for his ignorance by another (who, I am willing to wager a very large sum of money, was no more aware of said bigotry when originally consuming the works) ought to appear in the dictionary as an example in the definition for "struggle session".

[1] My understanding is that the alleged bigotry is said to be anti-semitism

If you consider Twitter to be toxic, wait until you experience Mastodon. It's the homeland of the most unhinged activists. Correction: sadistic bullies that have no life.

They've build tools to find out who plays/streams this game and then spam the chat. They bully people to unfollow said players. They post game spoilers everywhere on social media. They report Mastodon users playing the game, demanding a ban. And when the mod does not comply, they circle and attack the mod. The mod...whom specifically managed a LGBTQ+ instance.

The game is now antisemitic too, because it contains some ancient horn artifact?

There is no end to their sadism and pettiness. And when the damage is done, they'll high five each other and consider it another win for the humanitarian cause.

They're evil and disturbed.

> If you consider Twitter to be toxic, wait until you experience Mastodon.

I noticed this immediately on several Twitter alts I explored and immediately stopped using them. They were massive echo chambers and circle jerks. Some of them would even turn on each other and implode over incredibly minor things.

I remember message boards imploding in the early 2000s, but that usually took years, massive circles of people leaving, and changing of hands to achieve...this was like that on a speed run; and they mostly all went back to Twitter.

Accurately described.

At times it comes across as peaceful, but in a very creepy way. 100% ideological consistency where the ideology is nothing of substance, just unhinged online-only performative virtue signaling. Every once in a while a reply gives a minor pushback after which the account is immediately circled and stomped on.

Such methods were perfected on Metafilter. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32880651>

This is just one of many Mastodon instances which are undergoing an extinction event which involves: turning against themselves and destroying each other. This time, it is over a children's video game.

It is really amusing to watch this when the world just ignores them and continues to play the Harry Potter wizard video game as usual and are talking about it on Twitter.

At the end of the day, there is only a few people that are winning and JK Rowling is one of them, despite not even being directly involved with the game and will earn millions out of it regardless with the complainers wasting their time and winning nothing.

This Mastodon instance lives up to it's domain really well: mastodon.lol

>This is just one of many Mastodon instances which are undergoing an extinction event which involves: turning against themselves and destroying each other.

This is happening elsewhere, too?!? Good grief!

Mastodon is software for running federated social networking servers. Are you perhaps referring to a specific server or community?

It’s quite possible to join a server that focuses on a specific hobby and generally avoid any of that horribleness.

Except the way the fediverse works, instances can ban instances, and there are parasocial lists set up to keep track of “bad mastodons”, and if your instance allows people to follow anyone from a “bad” instance you are also bad and refused federation, effectively locking you out of the network.

That’s what makes mastodon so insidious. If you (as a mod) allow anything that other instances disapprove of, you and your site is excluded.

I know what Mastodon is. What you say is true for every social network, you can find your little niche that works for you. I'm speaking in broad terms about the general culture.

> What you say is true for every social network, you can find your little niche that works for you

It's not true for Twitter, which uses it's algorithm to force high-engagement outrage into your feed

Unless you simply switch your feed to "following" instead of "for you", in which case you see every Tweet from only the people you follow in chronological order. Until recently Twitter would periodically switch you back to "for you", even if you had it set to "following". After a recent change, however, this is no longer the case. Why anyone would choose to allow Twitter to decide what Tweets they see, instead of choosing themselves, is beyond me.

What do you mean by “broad terms about the general culture”?

Are you saying that the average user of any Mastodon server is “evil and disturbed?”

No, a meltdown is not the day-to-day culture, but it's definitely a fringe activist network.

That is quite ugly. I’m sorry you’ve had that experience but I’m telling you: check out other servers. They’re really quite different and you’re in no way forced to engage in subcultures you’re not interested in. If you keep running into the same smell every where you go, it might not be that all of Mastodon is smelly.

It’s kind of like Reddit. There’s all kinds of slimy subreddits, but I just don’t join those and I never see their content or discourse.

That is just utter rubbish.

Yeah, that hasn’t been my experience at all.

(Edit: I’m not saying there aren’t toxic people on Mastodon, because obviously they’re going to be on any large site. I’m disagreeing that it’s worse than Twitter. It’s all about who you interact with.)

Ditto. My experience with Mastodon has been really positive. I've blocked one person ever. On Twitter, I'd block an account per week, sometimes more

I guess my thoughts are: isn't this activism, though? "They are using their time to impart the results that they want. They're developing the tools and implementing them to get their opinions and actions across to as many people as possible."

Is someone finding that annoying or distasteful, or thinking "wow, they have a lot of time on their hands" valid reasoning to calling them "evil and disturbed", or are people just not wanting to put the equal amount of effort to resisting/subverting that?

> The game is now antisemitic too, because it contains some ancient horn artifact?

No. The game is accused of being antisemitic because it portrays goblins with antisemitic stereotypes - greedy, gold-hoarding, hook-nosed bankers and money-lenders.

Although this isn't entirely exclusive to JKR, as Tolkein had similar issues with his original portrayal of dwarves (which he later tried to rectify,) and this sort of portrayal goes far back in folklore and was purposely rooted in antisemitism. Given JKR's other views and her recent open hostility towards what you would consider "the woke", people aren't willing to assume she was simply naive.

If you're interested in the context surrounding this controversy here are some sources. A google search can uncover more.



> No. The game is accused of being antisemitic because it portrays goblins with antisemitic stereotypes - greedy, gold-hoarding, hook-nosed bankers and money-lenders.

I don't believe anyone actually thinks this. I do believe that people are reaching for any reason to try to disparage the game because they don't like JKR.

Maybe, just maybe, the people complaining about the game are unhinged.

> Maybe, just maybe, the people complaining about the game are unhinged.

They aren't, but the vibe of this thread already makes it obvious that argument to that end would be fruitless.

I would honestly say that anyone linking the goblin behaviour to human behaviour is the racist/prejudice one.

Just stop acknowledging that the stereotype is in any way real. Treat it like a child calling you poopiface(which is their best attempt at hurting you btw).

That is the ONLY way to beat racism. Even then, racists will be around being racist. The difference is that everyone will treat their opinion the same way they treat the child calling them poopiface.

What happens next? The impact of racism is greatly lessened. That is the best case scenario because the only other method involves slavery and reeducation camps. People still murder right?

We all agree that is wrong and look at where that gets us. The people who choose to not agree end up where? Right, slavery and reeducation in a camp.

From the Forbes piece:

>worse, was the Star of David pattern, clearly visible on the floor of Gringotts Bank (this was a feature of the filming location, London’s High Commission of Australia, and did not appear in subsequent films)

The star is, specifically, the Commonwealth Star <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Star>. Quite understandably a feature of Australia House, and 100% nothing at all to do with Judaism.

"worse", indeed.

I think the only people making that goblin reference are people looking to be mad.

Do you really think tales of dwarfs and goblins didn't exist before people cared about races so much?

I'm just baffled by the reaching here.

Let people play a video game.

Caring about races is very new, but Jews have been the subject of anti-semetic attacks for at least a thousand years, probably twice that.

And in the future -- space goblins:


But people are making this an antisemetic attack. Nothing about that is antisemetic.

I would say y'all comparing jews with goblins are the racists.

> They're evil and disturbed.

I wouldn't say evil, but reading through the comments makes it clear a lot of these people need therapy.

Surprisingly, it reminded me a lot of right wingers dressed up in body armor with a rifle that couldn't run a mile to save their life (or the life of the man next to them). Theres a performative element to both; They're LARPing, trying to regain a sense of control and meaning.

>I wouldn't say evil, but reading through the comments makes it clear a lot of these people need therapy.

Another such example: /u/LibraryLass just caused a colossal mess in /r/asksciencefiction <https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/10wzlb6/dram...> over Hogwarts Legacy. Not the first time the user has caused such online commotion, a while back receiving a ban from rpg.net. The mods removed the ban after a heartfelt plea ... and quickly regretted it <https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/librarylass-receives...>. I wrote on Reddit:

>Reading that appeal by LibraryLass at the bottom of the thread, the one that won the unban broke my heart.

>That plea for unbanning sounds like LibraryLass basically made rpg.net the center of living, and could not stand any more not being able to participate. LibraryLass's former mod colleagues took pity and revoked the ban despite having concerns about what might happen ... and then LibraryLass, I guess, promptly broke the conditions of said unbanning.

>LibraryLass needs help. I hope the recent Reddit drama will cause said person to seek out said help, but I doubt it based on the parting comments I've read through unddit.

You're tarring all of Mastodon with a mighty large brush, there.

Until people can learn to live peacefully in a world where others oppose or are even just indifferent to things they feel strongly about, there is no real point in getting too attached to online communities. All eventually spiral into self destructive toxicity and we are left looking for alternatives.

There was an article featured the other day about how some communities on some subreddits become hostile when the community size gets too large [0] [1]. The article estimated that the critical size was Dunbar's number (150) raised to 2.5, which gives about 300k.

Mastodon.lol looks to have been around 67k up until recently [2] (which gives an exponent of about 2.2).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34713553

[1] https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/scaling-problems-in-soc...

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20221122205835/https://mastodon....

> Mastodon.lol looks to have been around 67k up until recently

75k as of November last year when registration was closed: https://mastodon.lol/@nathan/109374989892780399 (https://archive.ph/IXKx3)

12th largest instance listed on https://instances.social/list/advanced#lang=&allowed=&prohib...

I had to look up what TERF meant.

Frankly this seems to be manufactured outrage: do these people have nothing better to do with their time?

Everyone wants to be part of something. Some people think they are part of the Rebellion when it's actually the Dark Side.

This is what mental illness looks like. We used to treat it as such, now some people take them far too seriously.

Indeed. We should not hesitate to call this mental illness: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34780054> Acknowledging such is the first step to getting help.

Something I want to point out about this: Nathan has been harassed and bullied as the only moderator on a server with 50-100k users. He's very clearly been burnt out for a while and has been struggling to cope.

A lot of people are trying to make this about the Harry Potter game, but it really isn't. Any conflict being aimed at him would have put him over the edge, it just happened to be this.

He has always tried to protect the majority of users over what any subgroup wants. He was pretty harsh as a moderator, but genuinely wanted to do the best he could.

This isn't a trans thing or a Nazi thing, this is just about burnout.

Nathan made some bad choices and said some things he really shouldn't have. He should have found a way to bring more moderators on, but he didn't. He tried to do everything on his own and it broke him.

Nathan isn't a bad person, he just got pushed too far and he snapped.

Well that is a hilarious failure, lol. All over the new Harry Potter wizard video game. It is just a game.

Just another Mastodon instance destroying itself, when JK Rowling isn't even involved in the game and still makes millions out of it. All of this outrage is just a leaf falling out a tree.

Dear, Oh dear.

Wait, so:

1. Some HP video game is release;

2. Users who bought it mentioned it in mastodon.lol;

3. Other users want to ban them because...JK Rowling is...a Nazi(?);

4. Other users posted spoilers because...JK Rowling bad and anyone who does not know that deserves getting their day ruined(?);

5. Mastodon.lol owner chide these other users and gets harassed as a result;

6. Mastodon.lol owner decides to shut down site;

Is mastodon.lol really just a toddlers’ playground rather than a town hall?

from what i understand, he was getting tons of harassment because he wasn't folding to the outrage mob and decided it wasn't worth the stress of keeping it up. i wouldnt call it a toddlers playground

The revolution devours all its children

So.. these random mastodon servers are islands and if they shut down you have to migrate your shit? Tbh I’ve barely paid any attention to mastodon but crap like this just makes me have less interest in it. Yay decentralization! …

Mastodon is a huge mess, and these servers shut down constantly. Imagine trying to use email but the server is run by a single stranger who gives up after 2 years and you have to reset all of your account emails.

The only feasible end result is that everyone picks one large corporate server or hosts their own. Like how email works.

In my understanding it's similar to email. We can email each other on different hosts just fine, but if my host goes down, so does my email address, and my previous emails.

I mean...this makes sense.

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