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One of his major issues seems to be Google not coming through on the topic of net neutrality, and that his overall opinion of Android is coloured by this. But an honest genuine question (I don't know the answer)- what did Apple do to further net neutrality?

It seems like MG expected a lot of Google, and Google let him down. But what did he expect of Apple, and did they deliver? Because last time I looked Apple were championing all the wrong things.

I think it's extremely unhelpful, in these discussions, to resort to "well Apple does bad things too, so how can you prefer Apple?"

Ultimately I think the point the article's getting at here is that Apple's at least been relatively honest in their marketing; they never delivered an open stack based around principles of software freedom, but they also never promised us they would. Google did promise that; they promised it seven ways to Sunday, and then failed to deliver in a variety of ways, not all of which can be attributed to innocent mistakes.

So the criticism of Google is not rooted in "this other platform is more open". The criticism of Google is rooted in "gathering this huge following by loudly trumpeting principles you won't follow" is rank hypocrisy.

I think it's extremely unhelpful, in these discussions, to resort to "well Apple does bad things too, so how can you prefer Apple?"

I was aware when I posted my comment that it might feed into the Android-iPhone flamewars, but I didn't intend it to. It's more specifically that MG is such an Apple fan.

Personally, I prefer an organisation with high aims- that it is unable to reach because of business reality- to an organisation that never even aspired in the first place.

So, to use a metaphor. Let's say you have two people: - one criminal who steals most of the time to earn a living but does not claim to do otherwise. - one person with high moral standards, who, once in his life, resorts to stealing because he had to in a set of specific circumstances.

...it is ok to prefer the criminal just on the ground that he is faithful to himself rather than the person with high moral standards, because that one failed to keep to their ideals ?

That's a extremely contrived sense of reality.

Sorry, but even if Google do compromise in many ways lately, they are STILL more of a champion of Net Neutrality than Apple has ever been.

That's a extremely contrived sense of reality.

That's an extremely contrived metaphor that doesn't really fit the situation at all, and doesn't help attempts to discuss it.

I wanted Google to be a champion of Net Neutrality, like they originally were. Period. Not just better than Apple.

Ok. So why is there any comparison to Apple in the first place, since this is a debate about achieving ideals of Net Neutrality ?

Because you were the one who made the comparison in your previous comment, which I was responding to.

MG Siegler is the one that brought up net neutrality in comparing Google to Apple. If you have a problem with the comparison, talk to the guy whose article these comments are referencing.

While I think the metaphor needs a lot of work, I'd actually prefer the first guy to the second. The first guy I know where my limits are. I'm not letting him in on my alarm password, and I'm not loaning him my car for fear that he's going to take it.

Aside from that, I know exactly where the boundaries are, and I can meet him at a bar, have some drinks and have a generally good time.

Apple does the same kind of thing, regarding promisee: "You don't need that function, trust us... until we build something that has that function. Then you need it and can't live without it." Just like google, Apple makes promises that later turn out to not be true.

I've never bought into the argument that an honest arsehole is better than someone trying to be nice and failing, 'because at least they're straight up about it'. It's nonsense, and Apple deal in duplicity just like Google do. But anyway, please don't paint them as honest, because they're not.

Well - the difference here, of course, is that Apple later delivers functionality that it hadn't committed to, whereas Google is failing to deliver on promises it made.

I can live with the first - I'm getting more than expected.

> It seems like MG expected a lot of Google, and Google let him down.

I don't buy it. He will always find ways to fault Google, if his writing style over the years is any indication.

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