Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
FTX: Sam Bankman-Fried out on bail, Ellison and Wang cop pleas (davidgerard.co.uk)
3 points by davidgerard on Dec 22, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 17 comments


How much does one have to pay to get a $250 million bond? In CA it is %10 or $25 million for his bond. Somehow I don't think Sam is broke and living in his mom's basement as the article states.


his parents' house is $4m, SBF maintains all his crypto wealth is gone and he is indeed required by the court to stay in his parents' house (though we can't be certain as to which room).


Who came up with the $25 million for bail? BTW an Eichler in Palo Alto cost $4 million.


> Who came up with the $25 million for bail?

No one, because there was no $25 million used for bail.


I don't think that is how it works. The judge sets bail at $250 million. Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town. The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips. If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court. So somebody somewhere has to have access to $250 million dollars. Either SBF, bail bondsman, parents or some really nice dude off the street that has a spare $250 mill stuck in his desk.

"He was released on bail for a $250 million bond"


> I don't think that is how it works.

Well, simply put, you are wrong.

> Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town

Yes, they do. Technically, the court could accept that guaranty from SBF himself, alone, and with no property given in security. It has, however, not chosen to be that trusting.

> The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips

No, they don't. Federal law permits unsecured bond, fully secured bond, and anything in between, optionally in combination with nonfinancial conditions, so long as the court is satisfied that is sufficient to adequately insure appearance.

In this case their is a bail amount, partially secured, multiple sureties (who probably don't have sufficient assets to cover the $250M, but that's not actually the point), and a raft of nonfinancial conditions, and the court is satisfied (the fact that prosecutors also approved the terms probably helps there.)

> If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court.

Probably not in New York, given that while 10% is the maximum premium for small bail amounts in New York, it asymptotically approaches 6% for large bail amounts. But, in any case, a bondsman has not been used, so this is irrelevant.


I guess he did have a little more than $250 million available to him.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/investing/doj-seizes-robinhoo...


Thanks for explaining. So if he skips they ruin his parents for whatever they can get up to $250 mil.


So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess. Or I am still confused. If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million. Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman. Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail.


https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm

We have to agree to disagree I suppose. There would absolutely no purpose whatsoever in setting bail at $250 million and then accepting a home valued at far less as guaranty for the $250 million. In CA at least %10 must be provided to the court.

In New York, defendants may be charged a percentage of the total bail amount ranging from 6% for bonds under $3,000 to 10% for bonds over $10,000. For example, bail on a $10,000 bond is typically 8% of the total or $800.Feb 17, 2022

https://www.tsiglerlaw.com/how-do-bail-bonds-work-in-ny/#:~:....


Reuters

The bond is meant to ensure that if Bankman-Fried flees, the government could confiscate the family's assets - including their Palo Alto home - up to $250 million. Reuters could not determine the family's total net worth.

Bankman-Fried said at a New York Times conference on Nov. 30, following the exchange's collapse, that he had $100,000 in his bank account.


> So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess

No.

> Or I am still confused.

Yes, absolutely.

> If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million.

No.

> Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman.

Also, no.

> Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail.

Again, no.


What is your source of information?


> What is your source of information?

Mainly, the actual bond document approved by the court, which details the actual conditions approved in this case, and the federal law on bail, 18 USC § 3142, which sets the rules for what federal courts can approve.

What's yours?


I posted it above - with links.


you posted state laws, not federal law.

Here's Popehat's explainer:

https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/how-did-sam-bankman-fried-...


Thanks - that was actually useful.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: