The only thing that doesn't really work I've noticed is when games have an online component, whether it's like easy anti cheat which I've heard should be just flipping a switch to enable but I haven't seen anyone actually do that, or some weirdness happening with whatever the new Microsoft Flight Simulator is doing that makes it seemingly a 50/50 coin toss as to whether it'll run with the exact same settings.
It's really won me over, I can say that much. When I was using Windows, I favoured buying games from GOG over Steam whenever possible. DRM and all that.
Ever since I moved to Linux, it's been the opposite. GOG couldn't care less about Linux compatibility, and while you can get their stuff going through some combination of Wine/Lutris scripts, the experience I get with Steam is so much better.
Nowdays, Heroic Game Launcher is the easiest option to play GOG games though (as well as EGS ones) https://heroicgameslauncher.com/
My tweener kids will preference Steam over all other platforms.
They would rather buy/re-buy, or pay more for a game on Steam than use another game launcher.
Their are games that are free to play with Xbox game pass, but they would rather buy and play them under Steam.
They have negative views on Epic, Ubisoft and so on. Blizzard/Battle.net aren't even on their radar.
They are mostly indifferent to MS/Xbox Store.
With Steam, the brand respect they have is five-stars!
They've certainly come a long way. I remember when they first tied the release of CounterStrike to installing Steam (CS 1.6, 2002), and that was not received well. Online auth was spotty. People were not happy about having this extra software hogging their memory.
But Valve steadily improved it, and made a worthwhile value proposition.
It's worth comparing to Microsoft's incredibly clumsy and ill-fated "Games For Windows Live". At a macro level, why couldn't they repeat Valve's success? I suppose it's a management problem.
Valve actively encourages talking to customers and helping them out.
(I've worked in both places. It's night and day in that respect).
Because they lack the simple business mantra. Everyone is trying to copy Valve's monetary success without considering the good will expense.
GoG garnered a lot of good will by being DRM-free, which accounts for its mediocre success. Epic? They introduced exclusives to PC and, let me tell you, that shit doesn't fly with the PC gamer culture - Epic is where people go for Fortnite and free games. Microsoft Store? No mods, no interest. Ubisoft? Great if you like Denuvo.
It’s a browser wrapper around a visibly slow site, and it’s far, far better than anything else but I’d rather use my real browser for those parts every time.
I play everything on the Deck now, so they literally lost me as a customer.
Which makes me angry, because I find insane that my 1000 games Steam library is fully locked when i'm playing one game, but we are 4 now...
FWIW, many games can be launched directly without Steam. There's also  for the rest depending on how you view things you might as well pirate the games at that pint.
I'll check the emulator. Does it run on the deck? I do 90% of my gaming on the deck now.
Edit: oh it's for multiplayer, I don't need it. I play only single player games, exception maybe for monster hunter, if you consider that multiplayer.
I appreciate family sharing, but it has some limitations that aren't amazing.
GOG is just "you are playing that one game". Way easier.
It's so funny how this works. I remember when Steam came out (I was in HS) and it was extremely controversial. Everyone, and I mean everyone, hated it. "I need to start ANOTHER application to run my game?" It was slow, clunky, buggy, and basically a piece of garbage. It also started the anti-consumer aggressive software DRM trend (you basically couldn't share games anymore). In other words, it was a huge gamble by Valve.
There's few people I'd tag as "visionaries" in the software realm, but Gabe Newell is one of them. No idea how (maybe it was just luck), but he literally saw 10-15 years into the future. Very few people are able to do that: off the top of my head, I can only think of Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, and Elon Musk.
Turns out it was like 10 years too early. That just shows you how early Valve was.
You've been able to do this for at least a decade, it's called the iTunes Store. I believe Amazon Prime lets you download movies now too.
Even years later, they quietly added HL Alyx to my library. I’m 100% skeptical of platforms like Steam, but Steam & Valve have won my trust.
Their unflagging support for Linux is just another piece of why I won’t budge from their platform.
- Steam supports Linux and even for games that don't, Steam lets you pretend they do by automatically launching them via Proton. Sure, you can run other game stores through Wine/Proton but Steam makes this so damned convenient.
- I (and I assume most people posting here) have enough disposable income that game prices are mostly irrelevant and especially for indies I don't mind throwing them some more cash.
- I simply don't want to juggle multiple proprietary launchers. If anyone wants to get me off of Steam, build and open gaming ecosystem instead of trying to grift of more of the same.
That's why it took a lawsuit to get refund support for Steam.
People put up with that because they still come out ahead by listing on Steam.
If you're using a completely different distribution system/client like itch.io or the epic store, you're allowed to list them for cheaper.
This is the dominant reason that the Epic store isn’t taking off, because Steam is enforcing network effects. Devs can’t switch and so customers won’t switch.
Not to mention that the refund policy can be useless as the playtime includes load screens when the server is busy, which happens regardless of the studio size.
That being said, I do believe that the refund policy improved sales volume overall because people buy games knowing that they can always refund if the game isn't for them. Return of the demos I guess?
You’re welcome to sell Steam keys on your own website, and Valve won’t take any cut at all, while still providing the same services as a purchase through the store.
See https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys , at face value, it’s a completely reasonable policy.
But if you're getting the sale because of Steam itself, then we get the cut.
You can still debate whether 30% is fair even if Steam are providing the discoverability but still, it's a solid policy and they're putting their money where their mouth is.
Do you believe developers should be able to use something a company has spent the last 19 years investing in and building... for free or cheap? Is there a competitor in the market that would bring them as much exposure while not charging as much? The only thing I can think of are platforms like EGS, where they basically pay people to sell their games on there, so they can grow the platform.
I haven't done the math myself, but I'm guessing indie developers would be hard pressed to make the same money without using Steam as they do using Steam, even with the "fleecing" you're talking about.
Back about a decade ago there was real concern that Microsoft might lock away modern graphics APIs behind some sort of entitlement and Valve simply didn't want to be dependent on Microsoft.
It's in EAC interest to not work on wine out of the box, otherwise it would be too easy to work around.
Unfortunately this switch need to be flipped by developers / publishers of particular game and they dont cooperate too well.
> To make it easy for developers to ship their games across PC platforms, support for the Wine and Proton compatibility layers on Linux is included. Starting with the latest SDK release, developers can activate anti-cheat support for Linux via Wine or Proton with just a few clicks in the Epic Online Services Developer Portal.
That means now the dev has to officialy support the game on this platform and all the problems that comes with it.
On top of that the anti cheat on linux is a joke because it's running in user space so serious game won't enable it just for that reason.
- The developer has no obligation to support the platform, Valve provides and pins a working runtime and unless the game is redesigned from scratch (see: Final Fantasy XIV) it should work in perpetuity.
- Anticheat on Windows is also a joke unless it runs in Ring 0, which is literally impossible on platforms like Steam Deck (Flatpak Steam only runs in user space for security reasons). No self-respecting developer should write kernel mode DRM in the first place, though.
- It very well could be as simple as flipping a switch - in the case of Apex Legends, the game already ran perfectly fine but couldn't connect to servers without the anticheat library loading properly. When EA updated the anticheat drivers, the game worked fine on Linux without any modification.
Of course, nobody has a de-facto obligation to support Linux. The larger point is that it's deceptively easy to get your game working on 90% of the world's Linux systems, much more so than shipping to MacOS or console. If all the world's 'serious game[s]' won't run on Linux, than that makes it the world's greatest casual gaming platform :)
Its functioning is spotty-at-best on windows, and when it takes issue with something on your system the troubleshooting is useless. At least Valorants’ anti-cheat will tell you what it doesn’t like.
At the cost of system stability, sometimes.
I get random BSoDs from "vgk.sys" (the Vanguard driver) while playing Valorant.
Bioshock is a tricky one because it runs very close to the virtual address space limit (2GiB) and Wine + in-process graphics drivers add just enough overhead to make push it over the edge in more cases than on Windows. This isn't purely a Wine/Proton issue though and can also cause crashes on Windows for the game. For Bioshock it is enough to set the large address aware flag so that it can use the full 4GiB 32-bit virtual address space.
...any hints for Arkham City ;) ?
A while back, I actually did a blog post about using Linux as my daily driver for a week, including gaming: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/a-week-of-linux-instead-of-... (you can ctrl+f "Running games and ProtonDB" if you want)
Clearly not all games work well or even launch successfully, but the situation is way better than it used to be a few years ago regardless! A part of it is the fact that game engines now do cross platform pretty well (pretty much any popular engine out there does Linux export as well with very few issues, though supporting it might be a different question), and Proton is also a good initiative for all the other titles.
Also, the ProtonDB site is useful if you want to check against your Steam library, or a particular title in general: https://www.protondb.com/ It's probably the first place that you should check out when you want to see whether you could play the games you like on Linux.
Even the current GPU drivers are typically serviceable, apart from the whole open source vs proprietary driver debate (which some might choose to overlook, whereas others wouldn't), though curiously I haven't found an alternative to AMD Software for tweaking how my GPU works on Linux, unfortunately. I mention CoreCtrl as one passable option in that blog post, but it's rather barebones.
Here's hoping that things only continue to improve and we don't get caught up with too much bad press or superstitions and put a positive spin on things where possible: https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/linux-users-provide-mor...
Thus far, 92% of games have ran flawlessly for me on Fedora (4 failures in the last 50). The main issues have been related to games that have kernel mode drivers for copy protection or other exotic types of anti-cheat. Perhaps most amazing (to me anyway) is the fact that mods and workshop items work perfectly. In most cases, I could pop open a saved game and continue on Linux, custom mods included.
Performance-wise, I haven't noticed a difference but I generally run very modern hardware which works better with the DirectX to Vulcan implementation. I also swapped to an AMD chip/gpu when moving to Linux and I think that removed the headaches that people often have with Nvidia drivers. Overall, it's been fantastic.
Roblox. Kids really wanted me on this but I've never been able to get it to work. Technically not on Steam/Proton, but a notable failure.
Eador: It runs but the graphics are completely garbled.
Anything VR: No luck at all getting QuestLink working on Linux.
Several games don't like later versions of Proton and I have to force them on older versions. This isn't a huge problem except that it it an annoying amount of fiddling to figure out which version is working.
Only issue I've had (and this may only be with Flatpak, not sure), is that bouncing quickly from one game to another several times can leave Roblox instances running in the background, eventually eating up too many resources and causing havoc. I got around this by creating a little executable script with `flatpak kill net.brinkervii.grapejuice` in it that the kids double click before starting a new game.
You can also just browse and see what is supported. Here is the list sorted by the highest user ratings: https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=userScore
"Proton is a tool for use with the Steam client which allows games which are exclusive to Windows to run on the Linux operating system. It uses Wine to facilitate this."
2. WINE reimplements the functionality of Windows, as exposed by the Windows ABI, as software running on Linux.
3. The combination of WINE and Linux is in fact a usable replacement for Windows.
4. Which means that WINE running on Linux conforms to the above definition of an emulator for the Windows system.
5. Therefore, WINE running on Linux certainly is an emulator for the Windows system.
> Wine (originally an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator") is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, macOS, & BSD. Instead of simulating internal Windows logic like a virtual machine or emulator, Wine translates Windows API calls into POSIX calls on-the-fly, eliminating the performance and memory penalties of other methods and allowing you to cleanly integrate Windows applications into your desktop.
You see this all the time when a jargon word enters the general non-specialist vocabulary. It doesn't make either usage wrong, though it can be confusing sometimes if the contexts can be difficult to distinguish. In this case that's unlikely so just give it up please.
Honestly the quirk where that is its name could be a really useful entry point for educating non-specialist readers on the different technical approaches used to solve this problem! I never see that though, this is only ever used as a wellackshully on internet forums. It sucks.
There was supposedly a naming discussion in 1993 which resulted in “WINE is not an emulator”. Maybe this was to remind people that you still needed an x86 processor (WINE is not an x86 emulator), or maybe it was born from the idea that WINE does not emulate Windows—maybe it “provides a compatibility layer” or “reimplements the Windows interfaces”.
The Windows APIs are not so well-specified that a mere reimplementation of them would run so much software as WINE does.
I could bring the SteamDeck when I bring the kids to the park, but that just feels like I'm cheating the kids.
I work from home.
8am-9am get ready for work/get kids ready for the day
5pm-8pm doing stuff with the kids
8pm-9pm eat, get kids ready for bed
9pm-11pm housework/watch TV
11pm-midnight miscellaneous stuff to prepare for the next day.
I almost wish I had a commute by train or something. Or a housekeeper, or an Au Pair/nanny.
How the fuck do other grownups do it? (I'm 49, and exhausted all the time)
The SteamDeck is, as a wise sibling said, not for playing more games, but for playing games more. It's really excellent for gaming in very small doses as opportunities arise. Find yourself waiting for 5 minutes for someone to do something? Hit the button, pick up the game right where you left off. When you get interrupted, hit the button, it goes right to sleep. Perfect for a busy life.
Idling on the couch with my wife while the baby naps for an hour is the sweet spot, where pre-Deck I was struggling to find decent mobile game (having exhausted all the decent games on Nintendo Switch).
I'll add that finding the right game is important! One that doesn't require a lot of cognition. Personally, FTL is my go-to. I can pick it up, do a few encounters, and drop it again without losing any progress.
I suppose the answer is "they don't". I've found that I can't really commit to any side project any more because my time off is not consistent.
> 5pm-8pm doing stuff with the kids
You're a better parent than me. I have such days, but I can't say I spend this much quality time with my child every day.
In any case I have a friend from two previous projects whose child is just two weeks older than my toddler, so we compared notes regarding this and many other topics.
Summary of what's definitely possible with one child:
-Inviting grandma/pa over - provided they live close enough.
-Scheduled leave from parenting - like one evening a week. The other parent takes over.
-Cleaning person. Personally I just get up every hour from my office and do some chores. It's not enough, but it helps.
-One parent as the homemaker.
-Natural tendency to sleep less. I have maybe 7h of sleep ahead of me right now but somehow this is fine. Perhaps I'll pay the price for this later in life, who knows.
Domestic labor is hard and thankless. It is very unfair to pile it up on a single person (in nearly every case a woman). Both spouses need to do their fair share.
It's also gotten them back into PC games, as they have more access to games through family sharing and the Deck does a great job of taking care of most of the fiddly bits of playing on PC.
I fully expected the deck to be the typical valve hardware experience for me. Something that was well built, and very neat, but would be gathering dust in a month or two. However, I think we've got more usage out of my Deck in 6 months then we've gotten out of my Index, Vive, Steam Controller, and Steam Link combined.
It just comes down to dividing time effectively. I will admit that is always going to be different for everybody, but we have found it works. :-)
My partner feels this way too. I feel the opposite. To me in some way I cannot reason it makes me wish we would a) do anything else as long as we had each other's attention or b) enjoy time to ourselves. Either to me lead to better longer term health.
Since you already working from home, you might want to look for something more asynchronous than working 9-5 non-interrupted.
Wait until the kids are old enough to take care of themselves at home. Once they're about 12, they should be more than capable of helping with housework a bit, taking care of their own affairs, and even going alone to the park with their friends.
I’d rather just play on a Switch where you can hop into a game for just an hour and feel your time is respected. At the end of the day, I’d rather just have something that works reliably for games.
woot. I'm definitely not a tinkerer and I'm having a blast with the steam deck. I haven't configured anything, I just buy and install games that say "plays great on the steam deck". I did try to play games that didn't have that badge a few times and actually didn't have any issues.
> I’d rather just play on a Switch where you can hop into a game for just an hour and feel your time is respected
I have a switch too and 1. the store is so laggy I don't even want to launch it anymore and 2. it's such an outdated piece of hardware that I just don't have the heart to turn it on anymore and wait for loading screens now that I have the steam deck. Honestly the steam deck is just light years away
Being much more open than for example the switch, it is a bit more complex to use, but I don't think it's a problem for anyone here, even with a severe lack of time and motivation.
My 6 and 4 year old love "Tunic" and "Stray."
The Steamdeck is a lot of fun.
Valve is just a single company pushing for Linux gaming and the results have been excellent.
Linux is the perfect candidate too. Efficient, open, easy to modify and adapt. I hope more companies follow Valve and realize the true untapped potential of Linux systems.
And what's with all the valve/steam hype from people that should know better? At the end of the day you are using a DRM front end (steam) that fragments the mod ecosystem and obfuscates the process of installing and running the software you paid for on your own computer.
I tried many games with Wine across many years, from versions well before Wine 1.0 to 4.0, I also tried CodeWeavers something (Crossover?) when that was a thing. A few games worked very well, for example I remember running a newly-released Civ4 almost seamlessly. But most games didn't. Some would be playable but with graphical or audio glitches, performance or stability issues. Others wouldn't be playable no matter what. Tinkering with dll overrides, wineprefixes and all that was often necessary.
Then Proton came and, almost overnight, the Linux gaming experience improved more than in the previous fifteen years of Wine-based attempts. A few years later now, my default expectation has changed to games just working on Linux, unless they use a rootkit-style anti-cheat system. Most games I played under Proton have worked with native-like quality, I could as well be running them on a Windows gaming rig. A few games worked with minor issues such as a few seconds of garbled audio on startup or slower startup. There's only one recent game where I had to give up on Proton, and that game is supposed to run well according to ProtonDB, I just couldn't it right on my system.
I haven't been able to find any info to confirm but I have a sneaking suspicion that Proton builds heavily on Codeweaver's Crossover. The vast majority of commits in the Proton repo come from Codeweavers employees
If DRM locked frontend like Steam is the price to pay for it, it is a small price. Eventually their changes get upstreamed and it improves the ecosystem overall.
> And what's with all the valve/steam hype from people that should know better?
In Linus Torvalds' own words: "Valve will save the Linux Desktop"
Proton is a fork of Wine with patches for games specifically.
There are no frontends for Wine, maybe Winetricks and Lutris can be called that but not exactly.
I take it you don't use Steam.
Yes, Steam is DRM, but it's the most non-intrusive DRM to have ever existed. You can play your games offline. There are no "false positive" errors when it comes to copy protection. No activation limits. I've done at least 5 system overhauls since Steam came out, and I've never had it tell me "Sorry, you can't reinstall that game!"
I mean, yeah, if you're the type to go "ALL DRM IS BAD!", then none of this will convince you. But it should be worth noting that I have NEVER heard of anybody getting blocked from downloading or playing a game they bought from Steam.
> that fragments the mod ecosystem
More like, it replaces it with an excellent platform. Have you even HEARD of Steam Workshop?
> and obfuscates the process of installing and running the software you paid for on your own computer.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Also, once you've installed a game, you don't even HAVE to run it through Steam. You can just as easily find the executable and run it directly.
GOG provides offline archive installers. A web browser can be used to both browse the GOG catalog and download updates. An app store's walled garden mimicking that behavior is not required.
Is it true that steam limits concurrent access to one's catalog, or prevents other family members from accessing the same account for a game if a different one is being played? Digital products should not be made to artificially suffer the limitations of real-world objects.
As for mods, some GOG games can't access the steam workshop recently. This is bad for the longetivity of the game and it's success, and of course for modders and players.
And I believe that there is still a steam runtime that games check for, even if launching outside of Steam. If I wanted random corporate software blobs running all the time on my computer, I would use a Mac or Wintel machine and call it a feature.
While I do use Steam myself I think that part needs a lot more attention so that Valve is pushed to allow you do download content from the Workshop without a client or login. Perhaps some day the law will recognize that kind of network effect abuse as anti-competitive behavior.
> And I believe that there is still a steam runtime that games check for, even if launching outside of Steam.
It is up to the game, but yes many of them do need Steam or something that looks like Steam  running.
Obfuscating usually means to make harder. Steam generally makes it easier to download and play games with features like automatic updates, remote play and cloud save sync, not harder.
The last "rig" I built was for Doom 3 after which I'd never bothered with keeping a NTFS partition again.
Apple silicon just doesn't seem to get to the levels needed for a state-of-the-art Cyberpunk 2077 experience even on pricier high-end Macs. I'm also still not willing to buy any "next-gen" consoles for the first time either (trend of maybe efficient but still glorified PC architecture continuing).
Would anyone have a list of well tested Linux + Proton compatible components?
Nvidia or AMD? Which drivers are better maintained at this point? It would still be cool to run some machine learning workloads for fun of course.
Any pointers would be appreciated.
I'm running a ryzen 3600 and a radeon rx5700xt, and i've not had any driver issues, be it with x11 or wayland. I've been playing a bunch of games from my library but there are still some games that aren't compatible (for ex. Vermintide 2 has non-compatible anticheat) so i keep a spartan windows instal on a 128gb ssd for those and VR. VR is a non-starter on linux.
That being said, nvidia has RT cores now, which can do very fast matrix multiplication which is advantageous for ML workloads (on top of a lot of ml work being optimized for cuda cores). Can't speak to their drivers but older cards should be safer, especially considering the 40 series hasn't been shown to be worth it over used 30 series.
A bummer for sure.
I also honestly was leaning more towards buying a used RTX 3080 or RTX 3090 from one of the (ex) Ethereum miners. I actually played through Cyberpunk 2077 on Geforce Now "RTX 3080" and am definitely spoiled by real time RT and DLSS now..
The compression artifacts and occasional lags and packet loss did become grating after a while though (to me). Biggest issue with GFN though is lack of games (I still don't understand why they can't just support any game on any of their integrated marketplaces. I mean it's me buying them on those platforms then playing them through GFN instances).
But I also gather here from multiple answers that AMD apparently should still be the choice on Linux. Maybe I need to wait a bit longer for them to catch up on the realtime RT and ML image reconstruction..
Its mostly that Valve doesn't seem to be too interested in polishing VR on Linux. They ported SteamVR and eventually ported Alyx but neither has seen any significant update on Linux for ages. It all kinda works but ... not great.
Other non-Valve headsets will probably have even more problems.
Hopefully valve is doing what i think they are doing, which is making the steam deck as a test for their hardware platform in order to make a standalone VR headset with a similar chip.
The AMD drivers are mainlined and they've gotten a lot better about stability than where they were a couple years ago. Valve has done a lot of compatibility testing/fixes for the steamdeck as well.
The Nvidia drivers are also pretty stable and many distros provide them out of the box. They're still going to be your main choice for ML stuff.
For CPUs both Intel and AMD are extremely well supported. There are generally more eyes on the Intel side though.
> My current experience on alder lake + Nvidia 30 series isn't quite a smooth enough experience to move my non-technical fiancee over, but it's close enough that I've considered it.
So you are considering it because stability with Nvidia 30* would still be good enough for you in light of a gaming use case?
Hardware that requires a proprietary windows app to control can be a problem - think RGB hardware and fancy gaming mice. There is some software to work with these sorts of things and you can get Logitech gaming mice working on Linux but it is somewhat harder than it should be. Stay away from Razer - their software is more troublesome than anyone else's.
Steam has absolutely incredible controller support. It is ludicrously good. If you want to play games on PC with a controller, hope they're Steam games or at least work well when launched through steam.
Use PCPartPicker when you're putting together your build. Their website is a wonderful tool for checking compatibility even though it's not perfect. If you ask someone for advice on your build, being able to give them a PCPartPicker link really speeds things up. If you're looking for a place to get advice on a build, /r/buildapc is generally decent.
If you're concerned about upgradeability or future-proofing, it's not a great time for that on the CPU front. AMD's AM5 socket just came out and probably has a good few years ahead of it, but the first-generation motherboards are awfully expensive and you should never buy first gen mobos anyways. It is also quite possible they will have poor support for Zen 5 CPUs. Intel's LGA 1200 socket is obsolete and current LGA 1700 motherboards probably won't support anything past the 13th generation (Raptor Lake). That said, a new mid or high-end CPU is likely to remain useful for many years since popular games are somewhat limited by the need to support 9th gen consoles. Similar is true for GPUs, but GPU prices are not great at the moment though they are better than they have been in the past few years.
If you have any other questions let me know.
To be honest I'm still aching for that realtime RT + DLSS fix without being dependent on GFN "PRO" all without having to go all retrograde to Microsoft world.
Not too interested in any RGB hardware luckily.
I'll play with PC Part Picker for a bit again :) now that I know that in general things seemingly should be expected to be much smoother even with the potential NVIDIA GPU choice on Linux...
It's still a concern if you just want to turn the damned lights off since they come default now with so many components and many default to full on unicorn puke.
It's a pity you want to do ML though, as I suppose that complicates your decision process. Nvidia "works", but be prepared that a system update might break stuff for you.
CPU wize Intel/AMD does not matter.
If you are comfortable with building the drivers (Kernel/Mesa) from yourself, then cutting edge GPUs are usually fine too. E.g. Navi 2 support was all there on release day but perhaps not yet in all distros. Not saying that this should be reasonable for everyone but we are on a tech forum.
I don't think the SteamDeck runs Cyberpunk 2077 with anything even close to real-time RT at 1440p @ 40fps minimum?
And I noticed quite early on: the Steam games which had problems were the ones with native Linux ports - wonky display settings, or controller not recognised or something like that. The fix is always to tell it to "force" a version of Proton, which caused Steam to go and download the Win32 build instead.
I fear we'll get fewer proper native ports because of Proton, so it's hard for me to get excited about it. Especially with how it seems to be on by default and work sort of invisibly, it's like they want to hide from people if they're playing a native game or not. I don't even think it's a malicious move, more like the common sin of trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator at the cost of the older advanced users.
I have heard some old ports were actually just shipping their game with wine, so for those Proton is probably an improvement, but some games (indie especially) actually made proper ports years ago and I think we ought to use them and recognize their efforts.
For an example of this, read Mike Rose about the game Defenders. Linux was 0.8% of sales, but over 50% of technical complaints. Whereas, if they dumped it for a Proton build, the onus is no longer on them for a working Linux build or for compatibility issues on Linux - its way easier to just say YMMV.
Blaming developers for the lack of native games is like the pot calling the kettle black. Until Linux becomes a decent platform to build for, developers aren't interested in rewriting major parts of their games every time the Linux community has a new idea. The lack of native games, I would argue, is more a failure of Linux than a failure of game developers.
Whether we like it or not, this lack of stability in Linux and the ability to just fork every time you don't like something, has led to Win32 becoming the common API for Linux. You build for Windows and Vulkan, and specifically test your game against Proton, and you can run on almost any Linux distribution that supports Proton without banging your head into a wall, or doing frequent patching every year.
That really depends on what you mean by "built for Ubuntu 16.04". If you mean compiled on Ubuntu 16.04 with the default toolchain and just the resulting binary dumped on Steam then sure, that might not work today (but even then, the Steam runtime might be old enough). If you mean released when Ubuntu 16.04 but using best practices (bundle what you use except base system libs, statically link what you can including the C++ stdlib, don't export symbols you don't need) then I can go find many such games.
> For an example of this, read Mike Rose about the game Defenders. Linux was 0.8% of sales, but over 50% of technical complaints.
Complaints or bug reports? Because the culture about reporting bugs is very different between Linux and Windows. Personally I prefer people telling me about problems with my software. And if your problem is that this creates too much work to track the bugs then do what valve did: Create a public community-curated bug tracker.
> Whereas, if they dumped it for a Proton build, the onus is no longer on them for a working Linux build or for compatibility issues on Linux - its way easier to just say YMMV.
And if it does break then the Linux players are left without recourse unless the game is big enough that Valve makes it a priority. As a user I am going to keep rewarding those developers that at least pretend that they will give a shit if their update breaks the game for me.
> Blaming developers for the lack of native games is like the pot calling the kettle black. Until Linux becomes a decent platform to build for, developers aren't interested in rewriting major parts of their games every time the Linux community has a new idea.
There were many native ports during the Steam Machine gold rush. And many ports being done by a single person in not too much time. I remain unconvinced that the lack of ports is really about technical issues (even if I agree that there is room for improvement) but rather about lack of business interest due to the tiny market share. Don't tell me that you can squeeze your port into the limited hardware and arbitrary restrictions of a handheld console but can't manage to wrangle library dependencies. It's about incentives, not the size of the problems.
Yeah, it means a lot of duplicate libraries, but it also means things will work... and aside from games, not aware of many that install more than a couple one-off applications to work with.
Where are the compromises for a developer in using Proton? There's one binary for them to ship (and update), they get to use industry-standard tools, and Valve makes sure it works on other platforms for free.
Surely the result is more games you can run on a Linux system?
Or rather - nobody cares when Windows leans on layers of backwards-compatibility to run a binary perfectly, why does anyone care when Linux does the same?
> I have heard some old ports were actually just shipping their game with wine
For straight up Wine wrappers there are/were only a handful. But many ports use some kind of wrapper for at least the graphics parts instead of reengineering their renderer and Proton has a chance of performing better there. There are also a lot of Unity Linux exports where the game devs probably don't even have any setup to test the Linux version or ability to deal with Linux bug reports. And even for ports from those who should know what they are doing (e.g. Feral) things do get abandoned and port issues never fixed (e.g. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided just crashes for me before getting to the menu).
So I can somewhat see why people don't want to bother when Proton works quite well most of the time but still I don't think its good for the long term future of Linux gaming to depend on being able to run Windows games. Anti-cheat is already a problem for Multiplayer and you can bet that these kind of invasive technologies will be used more and more at least by big publishers.
Pushing the Linux platform forward also requires interest from developers targetting it. We saw some positive effects here with e.g. Feral reporting bugs and even submitting patches to Mesa for in-progress ports. Currently Valve pours a lot of resources into doing the needed work (at least in some areas) but we can't rely on them remaining interested forever.
I almost went to GOG, but Proton pulled me back to Steam very quickly.
I often play FFXIV with it. Not verified. It’s ironic that the game runs perfectly on Proton but the main source of problems and incompatibilities is the launcher which uses MSHTML for wathever reason. Proton GE seems to have fixed the issue with the launcher but game patches sometimes break it.
You would think they would invest more money and time taking away one of the last major advantages of Windows vs. MacOS.
Microsoft obviously sees gaming as one of the big advantages to Windows, hence why they have been buying up gaming studios and combining Xbox and Windows into the one gaming platform.
I don't speak for Apple, but their bread and butter is the zillions of App Store games, so the business incentive is clearly to move those developers and games onto macOS so that Apple gets a cut of every game sale and in-app purchase. Moreover, those games are already optimized for Metal and Apple silicon. They already work well on modest hardware running on batteries.
In a sense it's a very clever strategy: Apple completely sidesteps the "PC game" market, which has largely left Apple behind, and creates its own "App Store game" market - a huge collection of games, all of which are optimized for Apple APIs and silicon, and which make billions of dollars for Apple through App Store commissions. Moreover, those games run across iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple TV. Apple also avoids potentially unflattering GPU and game performance comparisons (especially with compatibility layers like WINE) - the hardware fades into the background, which is something Apple likes.
From the user perspective though? Many Mac users would still like to be able to run PC games (especially ones that aren't in the iOS or macOS App Stores) out of the box, and this would be served by developing a high-quality version of Proton (or equivalent) for macOS. And they'd also like Steam to work well out of the box. Making this happen would be a drop in Apple's bucket, and probably wouldn't reduce App Store sales. And it might help with hardware sales for students and others who might be on the fence due to certain Windows games not running on macOS.
There was a brief moment where Steam for Mac was announced on stage at an Apple event and Macs got the Half-Life series, Portal, Team Fortress 2, and many others.
Now these games won't even launch on a modern Mac because they are still 32-bit binaries that were never updated.
If Apple doesn't care to be a marketplace for "PC Gamer" type games then fine but at least partner with someone who does care.
The cost of updating all games ever released and of maintaining a 32-bit compat layer is so incomparable that dropping that layer only makes sense because they expect other companies to bear that cost.
Same for Ubuntu or other Linux distros wanting to drop x86 - makes things slightly easier for them but an absolute insane move for the overall ecosystem.
I feel like Proton is just a repackaging of what we already had, which is the culmination of the hard work of the Wine team for the past 20 years, coupled with an online distribution system which could take back your "digital assets" at any time.
We reserve the right, but are not obligated, to remove, disable or suspend your or any user's access to any Content or the Services, at any time and without notice
> Proton is a tool for use with the Steam client which allows games which are exclusive to Windows to run on the Linux operating system. It uses Wine to facilitate this.
It requires a Steam account in a supported country to order. But after receiving it, can you log in to an account from a different country? Technically it should be doable. But there might be some policy that stops it from working.
Until the day arrives when you can install a game on, say, Fedora 37 that was initially developed against, say, Ubuntu 16.04 or Fedora 26, it is not happening. Win32 is by far the most consistent and widely-supported API on Linux right now, which is a damning indictment of Linux, not game developers who don't support it. Even macOS has way better backwards compatibility and consistency than Linux does, but developers are scared to touch that. If macOS isn't good enough for developers, native Linux ports are a pipe dream.
Proton is a much better experience.
I'd really love to ditch my windows machine, but my employer makes use of excel plugins that only run on the desktop version.
Wait, maybe I was looking at _Mac_ compatibility. It looks like 365 runs decently on Linux.
They have a site you can check compatibility at: https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/crossover/microsof... is the page for MS Office 365.
You can download a free trial and see if it works.
I recommend using the „play4linux“ fronted to wine which makes it rather easy to install and maintain windows applications and games.
Proton Experimental - "Bleeding edge" builds.
Kudos to the proton team for supporting such an archaic technology.
If half the games I want to play are locked to Gamepass, I'm not having fun with Linux. Now, if Gamepass could run on Photon, we can talk.