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TextMate 2 (Public) Alpha (macromates.com)
244 points by fredleblanc on Dec 13, 2011 | hide | past | web | favorite | 171 comments



I can't believe the number of "oh screw this i'm using <x>" comments sprinkled all over everything TM2 related these days.

It's as if people need to echo their personal choice every time TM is mentioned to give them a sense of reassurance that they made the right decision and to prevent themselves from relapsing back to TM.

I'm looking forward to see how TM2 progresses!


There is a palpable anxiety and dishonesty in all these attacks, it's stunning really.


In the mean time Sublime Text 2 has all of the Alpha features as well as cross platform support and support for TextMate bundles. You should really give it a shot if you haven't.


There is one feature in TextMate that's not in Sublime which I really love to the point, where it's an absolute requirement for me: when I edit a file in TextMate and my account lacks permission for saving the file, TM would allow me to sudo right from the GUI in order to still save.

This is much better than seeing that I can't save, copy the whole file to the clipboard, reopen it with 'sudo vim' and then pasting it (no. Not even 'sudo subl' works)

One of the main reasons I use an editor like TM or S2 for is system administration which often requires root. For development I'm usually using the JetBrains IDE with the respective plugins.


This drives me crazy.

Sublime Text guy, if you're reading, please fix it. I will do a little dance in front of my desk the day I see that in the changelog.

Oh yeah and the duplicate saving of renamed files thing.


Speaking of missing features, Sublime Text 2 doesn't support printing. Also, full-project searching is dog-slow.

Having said that, it is my editor of choice, but I'm not happy about those two points.


I guess ST2's author read this, because this morning's new beta release notes include:

    *OSX: Prompting for elevated privileges when saving protected files*


Bitch and ye shall receive!

Further evidence for my theory that complaining is the root of all human progress: Jon pushed a new beta today that fixes this. (Build 2147)


I really didn't want to seem bitchy about the issue. In fact, aside of voting for it on their userecho feature request page and writing that comment, I haven't done anything else - surely no trolling.

If my post came over as bitchy, I apologize. I really just wanted to tell the world that there's one missing feature preventing me from using Sublime more - also in the hope of maybe getting a good hint on how to solve it.


Sorry, I meant "bitch" simply in the generic sense of "to complain about x", not that your comment came across as bitchy.

I'm glad you did bring it up in public, and glad the issue was fixed, since I use ST a lot but this was a rather glaring omission for a Mac text editor.


Try sudoedit (aka sudo -e): makes a copy of the file you can edit, and replaces the file using superuser privileges when you $EDITOR exits.



If I was willing to use vim (or emacs, nyellin) for my daily editing needs I wouldn't be comparing TextMate to Sublime and listing missing features in the latter :-)

Besides, I knew about the vi trick you referenced, but it often screws up something with the terminal, causing all sorts of issues. Admittedly I didn't try it again since moving to iTerm (I'm suspecting a terminal.app issue), mainly because I have a working solution (TextMate).

It's just that weren't it not for this sudo-feature, I would really prefer sublime (I bought both, by the way, in order to support their respective authors)


No blow should pass, without two blows returned:

* http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SudoSave

* http://stackoverflow.com/questions/95631/open-a-file-with-su...

(I jest. Vim is an awesome editor and I recommend it to all my friends using Eclipse, Visual Studio, and XCode. But true enlightenment lies in Emacs, where vim is only another mode called evil: http://emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil)


With emacs you can use TRAMP (included by default in recent versions) with something like:

C-x C-f /sudo:root@localhost:/etc/config_file


Sorry, but there is no true enlightenment, in any text editor.

Other than vim off course ;-)


Every time a textmate post comes up on HN i think of this quote.

"Those who fail to understand Emacs/vi are condemned to reinvent it"


I'm sure I'm not the only textmate user who finds Sublime Text hideous. I'd sooner bite the bullet on vim if I'm going the ugly route.


I would have to agree. I tried Sublime Text for two weeks, but I continued to dislike it. It's not a bad editor or anything, it's just not for me.

Personally I'm getting a bit tired of reading about how people think that TextMate is done and how we should move on. TextMate 1.5 is still my text editor of choice, it simply fit how I work. Honestly I would be happy if TextMate 1.5 is just maintained as is.

There's a lot of complaining about TextMate which I simply don't understand. Split screen editing, really, you care about that? I just open two windows. More frequent update? Why? Do you really need a new feature in your text editor every week? "The new icon is ugly"... No, it's cute, but also not important.

The main thing that Allan did wrong was starting to talk about TextMate 2 to early. It would have been much better to have said nothing and just release an alpha or beta when he was ready. People a fascinated by new versions for some reason, they apparently want version two, just because two is higher than one. Perhaps if Allan hadn't said anything people wouldn't feel to entitled to a new version (wrongly entitled in my opinion).

Also, let's try to remember that it is actually a pretty complex piece of software that a lot of us will be getting for free.

As for Sublime Text, as a replacement for TextMate, yeah, I pick Vim a head of Sublime any day. Then again I would pick Idle a head of Sublime Text.


Nah, Textmate 1.5 as it is is perfectly fine. I mean, who really needs chunked undo anyway? And opening files larger than a few hundred k? Really, just split them. They"re a bad idea anyways. Or something like incremental regex search. Real men can read the code faster than any search indexer, so who needs that? </sarcasm>

Seriously though, I agree that some incremental fixes to Textmate 1.5 might have been a saner option than a full rewrite. I for one did not wait and moved on in the meantime.


Being a user of TextMate 1.5, I don't know what issues you're referring to with "files larger than a few hundred k?" I've opened multi-megabyte XML files and dealt with them just fine. I've done regex search and replace commands, fairly complex ones, on SQL backups that are multi-megabyte without issue.

I repeat, what's the complaint?

TextMate2 is a bit rough, yes, but I don't expect better from a prerelease. As it is, it's more than enough to offer me hope that it'll be finished and that it'll be a good product.


Regex search always uses a separate Window. Call me nitpicky, but I want to see my search results highlighted while I'm typing them. Especially when it is a regex search.

Also, my Textmate regularly crashed whenever I tried to open something larger than a meg or two.


I agree for the most part, but that sentiment depends on individual usage patterns.

For example opening multiple windows works alright until I want to Find in Project at which point I have to switch to the project window. A minor annoyance but day in day out that gets old fast.


"""There's a lot of complaining about TextMate which I simply don't understand. Split screen editing, really, you care about that?"""

Hell yes I care.

"""More frequent update? Why? Do you really need a new feature in your text editor every week?"""

No, I just need tons of features 1.5.x lacks. I could care less if they are delivered all in one release of a couple of them in frequent updates, but as we've seen "infrequent releases" doesn't work for Alan.


This user made theme should be the default on ST2 for Mac as far as I'm concerned.

Cure for ST2 ugliness: https://github.com/buymeasoda/soda-theme


Design is not a theme.


Pardon? If you're implying that ST2 is somehow inherently bad then I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER HOW MUCH JOY ST2 IS EMANATING.


You have to admit though that Sublime Text 2 is pretty ugly by default. Both theme and initial impression. I really enjoy using it now, but that's after four tries or so after I heard about it few months ago on HN.

Initial impression with ST2 is like playing jigsaw puzzles, it's a mix of mouse clicks and some weird text editing until you're comfortable with Cmd+Shift+P. I remembered my experience trying to adjust font size went on like this: Open preferences, hey wait what is default global settings? user file settings? Hm, let's try this one... wait I have to edit settings file? I better use Emacs then! Where I can find all available configuration options? Google search? Oops, that's for Sublime Text 1. ARGH!

Even though I do enjoy using it now, it still feel like playing jigsaw puzzles but with majority of pieces in its place. (Like recently: wait, ST2 can do split screens? Hmm, Cmd+Shift+P split... nothing? Let's try Google... none tell me how to enable it. 20 minutes later Ah, it's in the View/Layout!) I can see the whole picture now, just missing a little bits here and there.


I think the settings thing is sort of intentional. The assumption is that most users of ST2 like json, and the default file settings are well-commented in the JSON files. Also, it's weird that you thought you had to use Emacs, since clicking the menu option for a preference file opens that file in ST2. That being said, the whole global default/user default/file default system is pretty confusing to me. I think I get it, but I still put settings in the wrong files, which then don't work, and so on.

Another issue with ST2 is that, like you mentioned, for whatever reason, it's very hard to find answers to your questions via Google. You always either end up at some release notes that tell you the feature you want exists, but not how to use it, or at some forum posting from 200 years ago that's wildly out of date, and full of the usual wildly-stupid comments one finds in most internet forums. There are number of features that I now use daily that I only found out about through word-of-mouth. (To be fair, this last part is probably true for many people with many editors: "Oh, you can do $x in $EDITOR? Show me how.")


I completely agree, the menus and the options are pretty close to archaic. The developer has a bunch of work to do there. Once I got it down to an environment I liked I never had to touch it again, and with the nice package manager I never had to worry about new touching the package system again as well.


Not at all. There is something about Sublime Text that I can't put my finger on, but I don't like it.

Actually, I always found Textmate the best editor for reading and small edits. When I do huge work on a file, I switch to Vim by habit.

Having tried Textmate 2, I will continue to do so - its still very snappy, especially now that it can handle remote folders fine.


You're definitely not alone. It's cross platform, so it's not quite at home on OS X, it just feels wrong somehow. Pity really.


Anything specific? I haven't noticed noticed anything very much amiss with Sublime. (It's as native feeling as Chrome, say, or indeed TextMate.)


Agreed. I use ST2 on windows at work, and on OSX at home. I think it is great on both.


To be fair, TM is pretty ugly, too. ST2 with the Soda theme looks much more modern than TM.


really? i've always thought it was very comparable (I checked out Sublime Text 2)


The vintage (vim-like) mode is what pulled me into sublime text as my go-to editor. It's just so much faster. I opened the textmate alpha and immediately had a bunch of j characters appear before I realized i don't think I can go back. It's either ST or vim for now…


Try Vico. Textmate bundles and vim editing.


I did (but admittedly not for long). It didn't have the same level of polish. Has this changed? I can already use TM bundles on Sublime Text, but it just felt more feature complete.


It's more polished now than it was. It's still in its nascent stages, but it's improving on a roughly monthly basis, in a definite excellent direction. The vi approach seems to be at its core, which is notable as new features are being implemented. And it's scriptable in Nu, which is pretty sweet and gives you access to all of Cocoa.


Thanks for the response. Will definitely have a second look, now that I have an idea of what to expect. Competition is definitely good in this space… especially now that the trend includes TextMate bundles & themes so it's not too hard to maintain a similar environment.


I personally find it much more polished than Sublime Text. It's not quite TextMate yet, but close.


Thanks for the tip I'll need to take a look at this!


One of the huge reasons I switched to Sublime Text 2 in the first place. I like vim but I hate having to manage all of these plugins and configurations just to get things like folder views.

That said its not perfect and I do miss the old vim from time to time.


I wrote this for TextMate. Not nearly as good as built-in support, but I program 10 hours a day with it and it's saved me millions of keystrokes. https://github.com/philc/textmatevim


I've been using Emacs with Evil mode (vim emulation). I'm also addicted to vim's bindings.


Sublime text is very clunky and has that very weird "UI app written in a scripting language feel" to it. I know that's not a value which is easy to quantify, but I think it's down to a slightly weird architecture and latency because of its heavy dependency on python.


This is a common misconception about ST2. The editor is actually written in C++, but exposes a Python API for plugins.


Fair enough, I was just speculating on why it feels clunky and misplaced on OSX.


How's it clunky? Java GUIs are alien and clunky. ST2 is just alien (and could be a lot worse).


The dependence on Python for configuration is for me a decisive objection. My copy of Textmate has little scripts buried all over it in several languages but with Sublime Text I am completely frozen out, or so it seems.


Actually, Python isn't used for configuration at all, just for writing plugins. JSON is the configuration language. You can even change the menus in the app by editing the Main.sublime-menu.

The reason Python is used for the API is because the editor is cross-platform, and Python is the best choice for such a situation. If you want to run other scripts or programs, you can use the python subprocess module.

If there is something you are looking to tweak, http://sublimetext.info/docs/en/ has a lot of good info, and the forum (http://www.sublimetext.com/forum/) tends to be a pretty good place to ask questions.


Yes, exactly, what are called plugins in Sublime Text jargon can only be written in Python. Thus for example, the illustrations of things you can do with the exciting plugin facility -- duplicating the selected text, or encoding the selected text with rot13 -- involve composing things in Python, of all things, else you are completely disabled.


That's kind of what I was referring to, likewise with Eclipse. Textmate has always been the polar opposite of whatever that feeling is.


Actually when I first tried TextMate, in the low 1.x versions, it felt like watching the grass grow between each character press and the glyph appearing on screen.

Probably a multi-ms delay due to regexes for syntax highlighting.

And TextMate is not designed like a standard OS X app, either.


I really hate ST2's handling of project-wide file system controls on the left. Renaming a file keeps the old buffer open and I've been caught a few times re-saving under the old name. I've yet to figure out how to open a project directory from the GUI, too.

I always liked the file browser column in TM better.


The rename problem is a real ugly bug. Lots of votes on the userecho.com site, but nothing has been done with it yet.

> I've yet to figure out how to open a project directory from the GUI, too.

What's wrong with File -> Open Folder or Project -> Open Project?


Serves me right for relying on cmd-o.


Renaming is a huge huge issue, as well as managing files from that left hand menu. It seems to be just kinda awkward.


Honestly, while Sublime is GREAT, it doesn't feel like a Mac app.


Have you try out Soda[1]? It makes Sublime Text 2 feel a lot more Mac-like for me.

[1]: https://github.com/buymeasoda/soda-theme


This is really a fantastic theme. Using it from now on.


Does TextMate 2.0a1 ?


I've only used it for an hour or so last night, so I can't really say. However, TextMate 1 with MissDrawer definitely does.

https://github.com/jezdez/textmate-missingdrawer


Neither does TM.

And it's not like "feels like a Mac app" should be a top requirement for a programmer's editor --else we wouldn't use Emacs, Vim and the like.


I humbly disagree on both counts. (Emacs is my ugly #2, though.)


Sublime was rough for me at first but I really enjoy it now. I wasn't impressed with the TextMate alpha.


Sublime Text 2 is like Java AWT - awful. Cross platform means mediocre. Literarily, because one will have to choose a common denominator. I have tried ST2 several times on OSX and never liked it. Even if TM2 is only an alpha release it feels much better than ST2. I've been using TM2 all day and I really like it. The new stuff comes to light when you start working with the text. Auto-complete, indentation, parsing, highlighting and find/replace are so much better and there are also lots of small nuggets such as multi-selection. It is apparent that the editor/engine part is much improved, more solid and snappy. I think TM2 will be great once it is released.


I tried Sublime Text 2 and didn't like it, now waiting for a stable release of TextMate 2


I also tried it some months ago and didn't like it. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but it somehow felt awkward to me. I just downloaded it again though - going to give it another try before I make my final decision.


I would suggest installing the dark soda theme. It seems to remove any need for your finger to be put on anything. https://github.com/buymeasoda/soda-theme


I will give it a try, thanks!


Just downloaded Sublime 2 and it looks very nice at a glance. It will probably replace TextPad as my second editor (still Emacs as primary one).

The only missing thing would be Eclipse backed autocomplete and navigation. The first editor that get it seamless will be the one I'll use the most.

I know there is eclim project, but it feels slow and cumbersome to use.


Just tried it out and it's actually pretty awesome, especially considering it's an alpha. A real 2.0 in every sense. Tried Sublime Text 2 for a while but while the spec looks good on paper it feels clunky to use, even compared against TM 1.5. And with 2.0 it's completely blown out of the water.

And for you vim/emacs promoters always jumping out of the dark: I use vim every day for a lot of tasks, and have done so for the last 15 years, but for coding and quick navigation of large source bases Textmate wins hand down.


What about textmate makes it better for quick navigation over something like macvim with nerdtree and one of those project search tools like command-t? Curious on this one not being snarky. I like text mate for the find and replace that can do counts on matches to make sure you are getting the ballpark of matches correct, and incremental replace is nice too until you are satisfied with your search terms. Any way to do this in vim easily? Plugin? Other than that vim is way faster for me.


I can navigate the TM drawer much faster than I can navigate NERDTree. And I've probably spent more time in Vim so it's probably not just habit, but usability. Yes, command-t works, I mean, Vim is not a bad editor at all, I just find that TM is easier to use which leads to quicker workflows.


"""I can navigate the TM drawer much faster than I can navigate NERDTree. """

Then you're doing it wrong.


Or I'm really fast?


Faster to 1) leave the keyboard, 2) navigate with the mouse to the project pane, 3) select file, 4) back to the keyboard etc than to press 2-3 keys in Vim to move between NerdTree and your content and open whatever?

I don't think so.

In the very least, you could just use NerdTree with the mouse, exactly like TM, and it would be the exact same speed.


Some, particularly those who lean to the design side of things but still do a lot of coding, think spatially. For us, navigating the mouse to a specific point in space is faster, or at least less jarring mentally, than thinking of the name of a path to a file. The spatial and muscle memory takes care of switching to the file, allowing other high-level thoughts to stay in context.

It's the same issue I have with working in the terminal. Even after years I still find it very slow to navigate, because I always have to stop and think of the actual names and type them (partly) out, instead of letting my spatial and visual pattern matching do its thing.


Yes, there's been several UI research papers which show that keyboard heavy users underestimate the time their keyboard strokes take compare to quickly switching to mouse because of the higher cognitive load. I know, [citation needed], but I'm sure you'll find them if you google.


I've read those. They were not about "keyboard heavy users" of our ilk --mostly about power desktop users.

(Not to mention the keyboard benefits of less RSI from mouse use).


A lot of people I know switched from TextMate to vim because of the lengthy delay. After using vim for a couple of years now, it would be very hard to go back to TextMate.


From what I've gleaned, it sounds like (although I haven't been able to try the alpha myself) that TextMate is missing some crucial features, such as split screen functionality. After switching from TextMate to vim I'm almost certain I won't be able to switch back and especially not if stuff like that doesn't make it into the final release.


Modal editing is the killer feature for me -- and the lack of those special project files cluttering up everything. Even if TextMate had splitscreen, Vim used with the project-oriented NerdTree and BufExplorer plugins is a tough combination to beat for everyday hacking.

Sublime Text 2 with Vintage mode enabled comes close, but man does it clutter up your project folders.



How does it "clutter up" your project folders?

With ONE project file, that you don't even have to put inside the project folder?


Split screen functionality would be SUCH a welcome addition.


After using Vim for the last 3 or so months, I really can't see myself using anything else. You get to a stage of fluidity where no other editor can compare.


I was an avid TextMate user up until 2 years ago when a situation arose where I was developing on a remote box. I tried sshfs and TextMate for a while but the latency made the situation unworkable so I turned to using Vim. I've been using it exclusively ever since.

I've been trying to use the alpha all day and I've found that I've forgotten all the useful shortcuts that I previously used. Also navigating using the arrow keys is much less efficient and it feels clumsy.

While I'm happy to see TM2 released, if even in alpha I think many like myself are too accustomed to the Vim way of life to ever return.


Yeah, but far more people will never learn vim because of the learning curve.


The vim learning curve is greatly exaggerated: http://robots.thoughtbot.com/post/13164810557/the-vim-learni...


I suspect that people who actually try Vim are perfectly likely to learn and like it. People who are scared away by comments like yours, on the other hand...


It took me several false starts over the course of a few years to finally take the plunge.


Vi is incredibly easy to learn, but it takes some learning before you can accomplish anything. You can sit down with Bill Joy's original paper, read it, try stuff out, and you will be using Vi at 50% of the competence of a master with years of practice.

Emacs on the other hand seems to be simpler to get started in, but it never gets simple like Vi does. After you get over the first hump, you just see the Himalayas rising behind it.

I use Emacs right now, but I'm interested in moving to something that plays nicer with Mac OS and the god-awful lack of respect for Unix standards in the Rails community (like failure to exclude ~ files from the asset pipeline).


If backup files are giving you an issue, you can change the behavior of emacs so that it saves backup files in a separate directory, instead of the alongside the file that is being edited.

(setq backup-directory-alist `(("." . "~/saves"))) (setq tramp-backup-directory-alist backup-directory-alist) (setq backup-by-copying t)


I moved to vim more out of boredom more than anything. Using vim turned into a game for me... always trying a more efficient way of doing something.

Problem now is that all of the vim keybindings are etched into my head, and it goes way beyond the standard basic keybindings. It has to do with the way Vim chains commands. There's no vim-like editor that can do that except vim, gvim & mvim.

For this reason alone, vim has ruined me for all other editors. I would have jumped all over TM2 two years ago, but I've since changed my priorities. Regardless, I hope TM2 is a success.


I would recommend keeping an eye on vico. It's likely it doesn't do everything you're used to in vim, but there's been constant improvement in this regard over the past 2-3 months.


Problem with vico is that it's based on textmate plugins. If it natively supported vi (and mvim) plugins, then I would have already purchased it. I never understood the decision to go that direction. Vico is gorgeous, though.


That's both an advantage and a disadvantage in my book. The upside is the scripting language is pretty awesome (in my mind). Presumably it would have taken significantly longer to write full handling for the vi scripting language. TextMate bundles seem to be more limited, except insofar as they invoke external scripts.

I do get what you're saying though. You lose a great deal of existing work because of that. I considered vico a new editor built on the base concept of vim, rather than a total replacement, and in that sense I think it succeeds very well.


A bit off-topic, but if you like the game of efficiency, try vimgolf.com!


> Full screen mode: This is mainly because we are hesitant to go Lion-only so we are holding back with “lionizing” TextMate till we feel confident we can fully drop backwards compatibility.

That's not true. Adding full-screen support does not require breaking backwards compatibility: it's a quick check to see if the feature can be enabled.


I am also confused by all of the Lion hate. I will admit I just recently got my first mac but man is Fullscreen mode NICE. Swipe right to go to the browser, swipe right to my text editor, swipe again to check on the irc window.

All the while those screens are not distracting me with popups and notices. To me Lion is still more fluid and better built then anything I've used from Ubuntu to Win7/8.


Add more than one physical screen you'll see lion's fullscreen mode completely wastes the extra screens by blanking them out with that grey crosshatching. very lame if you have 3 screens


Ahh I can see the issue. I suppose that's something that would drive me nuts.


I don't really understand why the application has to support full screen mode. Isn't that something the window manager should really be doing?


It's opt-in for old projects, but it's as simple as compiling the app with Lion support without code changes or compatibility issues to turn on the flag for the window in IB. (Obviously, for new Lion projects, it's automatically enabled). The issue of checking in code comes when you want to add an "Enter Fullscreen" menu item, which requires a tiny bit of code to make sure you don't call "toggleFullscreen:" on a window that doesn't know about it (or display the menu item on an OS where it will do nothing).

Still. It's pretty basic.

(As for the window manager supporting it, some apps really shouldn't be fullscreen - Address Book, I'm looking at you - so having an easy opt-in/out mechanism seems pretty necessary on the application side.)


To me, this seems to be an "opt-out" rather than "opt-in" sort of thing. The easiest parallel would be maximizing windows in Windows or most Linux WMs: you can maximize all windows by default, but they are free to disallow maximizing. This seems a more reasonable approach.


Full screen mode in Lion is a little more than just maximizing window to fill the screen, though. Developer can/may/should also provide an alternative UI that's tailored for full screen and may update the UI depending on top menu bar's visibility. iPhoto and Photo Booth does this, for example. If bookmark bar is hidden in Safari, it will be shown when you point the mouse at the topmost of the screen (make the menu bar visible for extra controls).


Yes, I could see that. However, that still doesn't mean it should be opt-in for everybody. For most programs--particularly text editors--going full screen is basically minimizing.

I really like how KDE handles this: by default, full screen is like maximizing and turning off the borders/title bar (the window might also cover the panel on the bottom, but I have that hidden so I don't know). However, programs are free to do whatever they want in full-screen mode; Chrome, for example, treats it just like F11.

This lets me have the best of both worlds--if software does something special, it can; if it doesn't, I can still have it full screen, which is especially useful for programs like Emacs (which is its own window manager, really ;)).


"we are holding back"

so you mean there's more than 1 person sitting doing nothing for over 2 years?


You're right. They completely re-wrote TextMate in the past couple months.


Congratulations on shipping. That's the hardest thing sometimes, especially in the face of so much opinion and scrutiny. Seriously, pat on the back to Mr. Odgaard for persevering.


Split views are coming. From the post:

"Split views: Yes, I actually had this on the alpha milestone, I’m not overly excited about this feature myself, but I know it’s a very common request, so eventually it should find its way into the application."


I don't get why people think this is an editor feature, and not an OS feature.

When I want to view two files at the same time, I open two windows, and put them side by side.

Not everything needs to be fullscreen all-the-time. Let the OS manage windows. It's better at it!

Besides, having windows automatically become half-maximized is easy with the right tools, like BetterTouchTool (Do it with a gesture!), or Divvy.


It's not necessarily about having two files open at once. More often than not I want the same file open in two windows so I can reference one part while I work on another. This can be done in TextMate but not easily. TextMate also doesn't quite make it easy to open different files in the same project in different windows: It's something like Go to File (command-t), Reveal in Project (command-control-r), right-click on the file and select Open in New Window (no keyboard shortcut). You should be able to do this entirely from the keyboard but you can't within the confines of TextMate.

I also happen to work on a project with 24k+ files, which even with an SSD TextMate does not do well with. I have a script to generate a tmproj file[1] that contains the files I want to make it manageable.

[1] https://gist.github.com/1473107


The problem is if you open a new window with "Open "filename.ext" in a New Window" and then try to do something like Cmd-T or Find in Project in the 2nd window it doesn't work. So you'd have to open the project again, jump to the file you want, and hide the drawer.

New windows should be a part of the same project they were opened from.


The OS isn't better at it if there is none or limited ability to manipulate the windows in a keyboard driven way.

I use and love the 3rd party tool SizeUp, but SublimeText2's integrated pane management (including moving tabs between them) is far better than plain windows.


On linux, I've been using tiled window managers exclusively for about three years now and the lack of good tiling features is almost painful when I use windows (though the win7 tiling features certainly were a welcome addition). I personally hate having to reach for the mouse if I'm typing, so tiled window managers are a perfect fit for me.


Which tiling window manager have you settled on?


I've been using musca[1] because out of the bocks, it works exactly how I wanted a window manager to work and at the time it was well maintained. Though it doesn't seem to be maintained anymore, but I have not had any problems with it (plus the source is available anyway, so I could always attempt to extend it myself should I ever need to).

[1] http://aerosuidae.net/musca.html


Can you help me understand how it's better? SizeUp looks perfect for something like this.

Want to view two files? Ctrl-right on one, it's now on the right side of the screen.

Command-O, chose the new file, Ctrl-left on it, it's now on the left side.

I'm honestly very curious what Sublime/etc offer that is better than what you can do with the OS?


In Vim there are many benefits from having multiple buffers open within the same Vim instance. Buffers share session data of the Vim instance they're in. This has a lot of different benefits, including automatically sharing whatever options or settings have been set (many dynamically or temporarily set), sharing of Vim registers, macros, and command history, all of which are heavily used when editing (if OS handled they would generally share a single clipboard register), Vim-controlled navigation between buffers and windows, Vim-controlled scripting between multiple buffers, Vim-controlled searches of multiple buffers, and more.

Because there are so many benefits of having multiple buffers/files open within the same Vim instance it makes sense to have multiple buffers viewable at once, not to have only one viewable at a time. You lose a lot of editing power if buffers are not open in same Vim instance; it doesn't make sense to open a new file separately in different Vim instance. Moreover, many times split windows are useful to show two different views of the _same_ buffer at once.


Because then I've gotta deal with two windows. Cmd+~ : One's now in the background, the other isn't. Switch apps, one comes back, the other doesn't. Switch monitors, the sizing's off. Try to do anything other than 50/50 split, have to adjust manually. Try to use TM's project browser (seriously), doesn't work. Try to swap that second file for a different one, have to close the window, open a new window & reposition. It's generally a much clunkier workflow.

Granted, I only know that from using VIM (and occasionally SublimeText), but it's been one of my "Dear GOD Give Me This in TM" requests for a while. I've got SizeUp and love it - truly one of my must-have apps - but to me it's a hack, not a solution.


What's the key to add a third column and have the others automatically resized?

Do other windows start inheriting the project drawer if older windows are closed?

Each window has multiple tabs - how do you tear off and replant them using the keyboard?

Doh, now the temporary horizontal split panes like find-in-project, the python console, etc, must be attached to a specific narrow window.

And so on. I like a multi window desktop and am certainly not a maximise-everything guy. But relying on the OS for everything is not optimal.


Because ":split otherfile" is faster, easier and provides a better result. I don't need to fuss with windows or even take my fingers off the keyboard.


vimdiff, that's why.

(or whatever your editor of choice calls its synchronized side-by-side diff mode)


I used to think that about tabs but, boy, was I wrong.


The wording of "I'm not excited about it but I'll do it" has me worried. Typically those kind of things end up poorly executed/implemented.

In terms of split views, its not a big issue for me, but to publicly state that is your approach has me unsure about other parts of TM2 and his practices. I don't look at it thinking "yay!"


(I'm not a desktop app developer, so maybe I'm way off base here.)

There's the obvious observer problem where you have two views of the same buffer and changing the text in one automatically updates the other. Isn't that harder to tack on later than to design into the app from the beginning?


Depending on how well you can map your code to the built-in Cocoa text-editing classes, this could be as easy as adding two NSLayoutManagers (each directing one NSTextContainer and NSTextView) beneath a single NSTextStorage instance. Apple even uses this configuration for one of their examples: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/cocoa/...

The built-in notifications and delegate-relationships handle everything else (updates & synchronization) automatically. This is actually NeXTSTEP-level stuff that's been around for decades.


> I’m not overly excited about this feature myself

i don't understand this. how does he code only looking at one file at a time?


How do you code looking at two files at one time? What's the point?

I've been programming for nearly thirty years now. For the bulk of that time, I had an editor which allowed me to do split screens, and I used it maybe once a year. I switched to TextMate in 2008, and have never once missed having a split screen.


different strokes for different folks. i look at one buffer at a time, and switch between them. have only rarely made use of split views. helps me mentally with encapsulation/separation.


Maybe...drumroll... multiple windows?


don't you have to open a new project or something contrived to do that? i don't remember; it's been a while since i've used textmate.


There's no projects in TM, if you open a folder it opens up the folder in the project drawer. From there (or from Finder) you can open up as many editing windows as you want.


TextMate 1 was my first "programming" editor, one year ago I faced the truth and said to myself that v2.0 is not coming.(!!) I switched over to vim and I'm very happy. I now can use it very fast and I'm very productive. Yes, TextMate 2.0 is late and maybe all of those features are now all over other editors, but I'll definitely give it a try and I'll keep it installed on my computer for the old times' sake.


The new alpha is still incapable of editing Japanese text. Although at least this time it is probably a bug that is fixable, not a fundamental design flaw that isn't.

Pressing Return, which is how you select the kanji characters that correspond to the phonetic words that you typed, inserts the kanji as it should, but then unhelpfully replaces the Japanese characters with a newline. :-P

I don't personally care that much, though; TextMate 1 was actually pretty bad, IMO. It was slow and buggy, with nothing much special about it except its bundle system for extensibility. That was indeed a killer feature, but TextMate bundles can now be used by many other, much better, editors like Sublime Text 2.


I tried it out. But there is no wow-factor. When TextMate came out it was amazing. Specially because BBEdit was so much behind. Now there are (have been) many competitors that are awesome, look modern, etc. Meh.


What about the Chocolat editor? I hate the name but it seems to be an awesome editor. chocolatapp.com


Is there a good story behind the logo change and choice, or was it just time for something new?


I'm assuming it is to differentiate it from TM1 during the alpha.


When I asked on IRC I was told that the new icon is permanent. It's really nice in my opinion, but I do find it a somewhat odd choice for a text editor.


I've had a TM1 license for a while now and I'll definitely be giving TM2 a shot. Last time I tried Sublime Text 2 there was a complete lack of a subversion plug-in (that I could find). Has that changed? If not then it's a no go.


A wild subversion user appears!!!


I don't see any mention of this under notable changes since 1.5.10, but does TM2 undo more than one character at a time yet? This was the deal-breaker for me with TM. I like being able to undo and redo quickly.


I just checked the latest build and...

Yes. It has been fixed.


Out of curiosity, does anybody have any screenshots or something, just to get a feel of what this is like? I don't have a license, and don't want to buy one either.


There's not much to see, it's an editor, but here you go: http://i.imgur.com/ZyIP5.png

Blackboard theme and the font is DejaVu Sans Mono... I think TextMate 2 just uses the font I set in version 1.


Off-topic: I see in your screenshots that Dock icons of applications that are not started are on their side. How did you do this?


Short answer: I didn't. The sleeping dog is an Adium icon, ask them how it works. I assume that the other icon is the "Fr" icon. That's Flush.app that flushes Flash cookies. The icons just looks like that, it never changes. Sorry to disappoint.

But based on Adium, I assume that Mac OS X somehow allows you to change icons when the application starts. I would assume that it's something that the application need to handle.


Nothing have yet moved me away from SciTE.

It was on my Windows NT4 and NT5 (aka Win2K), and then, from 2005, on any of my Ubuntu installations.

I use VIM only when I edit remotely, on servers, but not locally. Haven't took the time to learn how to use it like a ninja.

But if I will ever switch, that would be VIM, no doubt.

That was yet again, code-editor-of-choice discussion, now going back to real work (not meta such as editor config files and plug-ins).



The thing that has kept me with Textmate has been its particular style of autocompletion, and a few bundles that I really love, namely the jQuery bundle, Javascript Tools, and the CodeIgniter bundle.

I use it nearly every day, so it's hard to adjust to anything else.


rmate is pretty cool. I'm using this script locally to forward connections from a server with rmate installed. Save this to /bin/matehost and adapt the list of hosts to

#!/bin/sh

###########################################

mhosts=(

host1

host2

)

###########################################

mpids=()

for i in "${mhosts[@]}"

do

ssh -nNT -R 52698:localhost:52698 ${i} &

mpids[$[${#mpids[@]}+1]]=$!

done

read -p "Press any key to close tunnels ..." -n 1

for i in "${mpids[@]}"

do

if [[ `ps $PIDns` == ssh ]]

then

		kill ${i}

	fi
done


no cross platform support = no interest. If you only ever use a mac, textmate is awesome. However, having to use a different editor in every OS is just ridiculous. Thankfully Sublime Text 2 is around.


Textmate 2 comes with rmate which may be an alternative. IMHO it is better to be great on one platform instead of mediocre on many.


Crashes on startup on my Leopard 10.5.8 machine, just me or anyone else?


Same here. Crash on launch. I'm on Lion 10.7.2 though.

Edit: Problem was that I had Textmate 1 running. Closing it solved the issue.


Thanks, that fixed it for me as well.


Does anyone know how to adjust the line height?

In 1.x I could do

    defaults write com.macromates.TextMate OakLineHeightDelta n
but 2.x doesn't respect that (or com.macromates.Avian OakLineHeightDelta).


Glad to see that http://wastm2released.com/ was updated to reflect this announcement! Congrats on being so close Allan!


for those that prefer the old icon:

cp /Applications/TextMate\ -\ Old.app/Contents/Resources/TextMate.icns /Applications/TextMate.app/Contents/Resources/


not a fan of the new sidebar thinger.. also stuff like GIT integration is pretty lame, it's must faster via the terminal. I'm pretty happy with old textmate, I would have rather seen CSS for styling the entire app or something, it looks kinda ugly


Unable to check for the updates at the moment.


Mirror?



Thank you... that does indeed work. The updates.textmate.org site is certainly non-responsive.


Fullscreen? mode?


From the announcement:

"""Performance: Overall performance is fine, but there are still edge-cases that we haven’t looked into, for example the long lines issue which also exists in 1.x or opening files that exhaust TextMate’s memory space."""

So, the same performance re: long lines and long files as 1.x.

And here I thought that the lack of new features meant that at least the core engine was re-worked. Now, it seems like there just wasn't much done at all, backend or front-end wise.

The list here couldn't be more basic or boring: http://macromates.com/changes

Here's what I'd like to see, minimum:

1) SCM integration 2) Split panes 3) Better fuzzy search 4) Robust long line handling 5) Robust long file handling 6) Improved extensibility esp. with re: build systems\ 7) Robust auto-completion 8) Better project handling features




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