I guess this is a good place to share my open source large format laser cutter design for sewing projects. It’s cheap to make, works pretty well, and the whole gantry assembly slides right off leaving just a sheet of plywood with low profile 3D printed rails on the sides. So I throw my rug over it and it becomes my floor when not in use. Important because the laser cutter can cut a full 60” wide piece of fabric two yards long. It’s basically 5 foot by 6 foot, and I don’t have space in my apartment for a dedicated machine that takes up all that space. But since this doubles as my floor it works great! Also includes a raspberry pi camera on the laser head which serves as a pattern scanner. I really want to finish my video on this thing, I’ve just been busy. But please take a look and considering building it! If you have any questions open a GitHub issue and I will do everything I can to help. I think it’s a great starting point (designed in three weeks) and I’d LOVE for other people to reproduce it and extend the design! The machine has a few hiccups but I use it all the time for my sewing projects and it is SO nice to get all the cutting done repeatably and automatically. You can even scan existing clothes often without disassembly and turn those in to digital patterns!
This is one of those projects that's been itching away at the back of my mind, but always on the backburner. Having a starting point will be a great help getting things rolling.
How much did it cost you, all in? And how do you find a laser for cutting some of the more technical fabrics? (Specifically thinking of some of the ultralightweight fabrics the MYOG community loves to nerd out on.)
I disassembled an old 3D printer for the stepper motors and control board. But I would say it probably costs in the neighborhood of $300-$350 to build from scratch. I spent under $200 since I had a lot of parts already.
I've not tried cutting those technical fabrics! I would suspect it works fine. I am mostly making street clothing with it. I've cut some medium weight polyester with no problem, but haven't tried super light stuff. The laser power is adjustable so I suspect it will work fine.
Also I have a full config file for the 3d printer control board. If you get the thing built PLEASE ask me for that in a github issue as I do really need to add it to this repo.
Is there any particular reason why you chose that specific laser model? I'm not very knowledgeable of the technical aspects of lasers/laser cutting, but would love to learn more.
I saw a YouTube video of someone talking about an earlier model of that laser and it looked nice! Also had the correct PWM input for control from my 3D printer control board.
I love the motion mechanisms; the tension bearings on the rail remind me of the V1 MPCNC designs and the rope gantry system reminds me of the Kralyn3d Positron.
Please consider throwing up your files on github entirely. OnShape has a login-wall, even if it has free account options. GitHub even supports native STL viewing!
> the rope gantry system reminds me of the Kralyn3d Positron.
I still had a spool of high stiffness line that I bought back when people were experimenting with that! It was one of the early delta printer variants, like the Kossel or similar that I first saw that working. It took a little while to prototype the spool winding system but in the end it works really nicely! Its just so light and cheap, I love it.
I should throw the STL files up. It was a big rush to get the project finished and I had a lot of other stuff to focus on. And I do want to encourage people to dig in to the design and make forks with their changes. But it does work pretty well as is, so STLs would be helpful. I also accept pull requests! I am super busy and pleasure projects like this are so hard to fully document.
Yay!! I can tell you it is SO nice to have repeatable patterns that are so easy to cut. You just lay out all your fabric flat, hit cut, and sit outside with a drink while everything cuts. A large pattern with thick fabric can take ten minutes, but you’re just watching as it happens.
I do sometimes have stuck stepper motors. That leads to messed up cuts and it’s one reason I want other people to reproduce the design and add their own tweaks. It generally works, but I would like to see the sticking of the Y axis improved.
Awesome! Important to note that I used smaller steppers that the most common size. I have a link in the GitHub docs to the steppers I used. If you’re up for a mechanical design project you could modify the design for your size of steppers. I think it could benefit from a little more torque on the Y axis TBH. But maybe I can increase the drive current in software without issue, I’ve not tested the limits of that. Anyway it would be useful to try larger steppers as I’m fighting an issue of Y axis sticking occasionally which is very annoying. And I bet a lot of people would appreciate the design work. I’m pretty busy in life but I could try to provide a little help if you get stuck. Just open a GitHub issue and we can connect more directly as needed. I hope you do give it a shot one way or another! The motors I used are cheap on eBay if you want to go that route. I harvested mine from a cheap mini delta printer I wasn’t using.
Coming from a scientific/laser safety background here... How does a system like this prevent loss of control of a beam?
In a university setting, I would guess that a completely open system like this would only be permitted if interlocks guaranteed that the laser head was unpowered unless everyone was out of the (windowless) room.
I did have a chat at lunch one time with an optics engineer about high powered lasers and it scared the shit out of me for life. That said I’m not operating with any institutional concerns. I personally have a lot of experience with dangerous machinery like CNC machines, plasma cutters, welding, etc. And I don’t have kids or pets or roommates to worry about. So I use good judgment and wear laser safety goggles.
The laser itself has a 5mm focal distance and the housing is rectangular with something like a 40mm square footprint. This means that you can’t directly see the spot it creates, and this seems to help a lot. It’s mechanically very solid so I don’t expect it to tip over. It is also poorly columnated such that it diverges pretty quickly when not pointed at a target.
All this works fine for me at home, but I suspect a university would need more safety structure around it.
Goggles are an important first step -- if the wavelength is long-enough, you can sometimes get away with quite-inexpensive goggles.
The short focal length helps, but you're starting with a lot of power. Careful with specular reflections, especially off of concave objects that might refocus the beam.
The hard part with these things are that the beams are invisible and the damage (especially at near-visible wavelengths) can be instant without a lot of power.
Yes, all good advice thank you! Luckily there is no metal underneath the mechanism or in the fabric I cut, so that reduces the likelihood of specular reflection. But thanks for the tips.
Well the stepper motors aren’t very strong, so if there is any obstruction it will just stop moving. But the laser head itself is very securely mounted to the carriage, which is very securely mounted to the gantry. I guess it’s possible the gantry could tip, though I’ve never seen that. Otherwise I don’t expect the laser would ever really change orientation. Someone could do some testing to see how hard it would be to tip the gantry. But again, the stepper motors aren’t very powerful. And I’ve accidentally kicked the gantry when forgetting to step over it and it stayed seated.
Also you can make the gantry runners arbitrarily wide, at the loss of some Y axis travel. But you can also make the Y axis arbitrarily long. So if you have space to extend things, you could make the gantry runners wider to give it even more stability against tipping. (A problem I have so far never observed)
hi this project sounds great! I've been wanting a large format plotter to help with designing and making patterns. I use a cricut today for small projects. Vinyl cutters are also an option but the cheap ones have terrible software. A combo pen plotter for 36" paper and a larger laser cutter for fabric sounds ideal if one has the space! I'll def read more about your project.
My floor is concrete so it doesn’t vibrate. But I’d say this should work with wood just fine! I do use wood for the backing so you’d have to be mindful not to cut through that.
Thick white material is the toughest. Like thick white denim or canvas requires a very slow cutting speed. Polyester seems to emit some kind of harmful gasses. I always ventilate the room, wear an n95 mask, run a HEPA filter nearby, and sit outside during and shortly after cutting pretty much anything, but especially polyester. I can't really think of what would not be cut by the laser, but I don't know anything about what fumes may be more or less harmful.
Yeah, there's certain materials that the laser cutting community knows about that you just don't cut with a laser. One of the gasses produced is Hydrogen Cyanide Gas (HCN). PVC also produces nasty gas as well.
Ah good, polyester is okay! I mean, definitely do not breathe whatever it's putting out. The first time I cut it I did not wear a mask and my throat was immediately very sore.
Yeah makes sense! These days I basically just step outside while it’s cutting and let the room air out for a while before I return. I do have to check on it to make sure it hasn’t had an issue and for that I wear a mask but also basically hold my breath and then hop outside again as soon as I can.
I haven't done a lot of laser cutting, but I expect there will be a ranking that is basically this from best to worst:
synthetic fibers > plant fibers > animal fibers
I will also guess that more shiny is more bad.
Edit: while on the topic of animal fibers, one fabric that gets way too little love in the outdoors community is wadmal. If you are doing anything that has intervals of high and low activity and you tend to sweat, it beats any GoreTex (incl. Pro versions) hands down for keeping you dry. Unless you are out in heavy rain for prolonged periods, in which case the only thing that keeps you dry is the thick PVC stuff that fishermen use.
This is a cool project. I wonder swapping the laser for a sharpie/pen plotter would make it more accessible to a wider audience? I imagine that you could cut it accurately enough if the designs were drawn onto the fabric?
Perhaps! But the drag of the pen would likely move lighter fabrics, and if it catches at all it would bunch up and surely drag the fabric all over. Maybe there is some way around that, but for me once I’ve gone to all the trouble to build a full motion gantry and control system I’d spend the additional $100 to include the laser and get the cuts done as it moves.
Probably referring to polymer ultrasonic welding, or less likely polymer thermal bonding. From experience I can tell you that ultrasonic welding is relatively complex in that it generally requires a shoe on the upper and lower side of the two pieces of fabric, correct pressure, correct ultrasonic frequency, and either (A) both pieces need to be held steady and the head must move; or (B) vice versa. It's not a process that is easy to replicate for complex geometries or novel materials and applications without significant preparation, jigs and fixtures. This is in direct contrast to cutting or marking where a head can simply glide over a flat material and effect a two dimensional geometry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_welding
Didn't expect to see sewing patterns on HN, but not complaining, this looks really cool!
While on the topic, my girlfriend recently showed me this site: https://freesewing.org . It's fully open source and all the patterns are actually parametric, meaning you can customize the patterns to exact body measurements. Their custom JS framework for designing patters as well as the rest of the platform is MIT licensed [0] and the patterns are all Creative Commons.
Your hoodie is still the one thing I show people who are overly surprised when I tell them I picked up sewing a long while back and you can create proper clothes with it. Mine fits perfectly, looks like a "real" hoodie in and out and gets everyone very curious to try making one once they've seen the real thing. So, yeah, thanks for putting in the time to make that (and the videos for it).
Looks like this is the page of designs: https://freesewing.org/designs/
I see three different hoodies on there, with the Hugo looking most conventional.
That's correct, sorry I didn't see the comment there — it's the Hugo I made a couple of times, also adapted to my girlfriend and worked right out of the box.
Hi Joost, LearnMYOG is my site. Never imagined seeing HN community be interested :) FreeSewing.org is an amazing project and its really impressive how you're using javascript to create adaptable patterns. Many of my community have experimented with your patterns as well!
>Didn't expect to see sewing patterns on HN, but not complaining, this looks really cool!
Yeah, this page is great example for all those people who despise the role of marketing. The wording, info structure, photos a d so long are making it really appealing. Awesome execution.
I found it a bit hard to understand what the website is about. The community is obviously proud of their approach, but it slightly overshadows the main purpose.
Of course I'm just nitpicking, because I love everything about people who build such things. If you're working hard to be as nice as feasible, it's really hard not to advertise it.
Thank you for your input.
One thing we struggle with is that people have become distrusting of things that are 'free' on the internet (for good reason.
So if we're putting a lot of emphasis on how nice we try to play, that's because we have that initial distrust to overcome.
Your criticism is valid, I'm merely trying to clarifying why we are putting the communal aspects front and center.
If you have suggestions for how we could improve, please share them
I'm not familiar with relevant English vocabulary so I'm confused because authors' names mix with clothes names in the titles, not sure which is which. Also apparently nobody likes polo shirts.
I see that the tops are differentiated as "with breasts" and "without breasts", but there's no "with/without penis and testicles" to differentiate the pants patterns and that might be uncomfortable and problematic for some folks.
It's because we use/need a bunch of extra measurements to fit breasts. We don't require extra measurements for fitting the groin (although we do have options in relevant designs to create more or less room there).
That being said, it's a fair point. Most of the sewing world is still rather strictly segregated between menswear and womenswear. We try to remove that distinction and just deal with bodies, but it's an ongoing journey. We're not there yet, but we'll keep at it.
That's controlled by at least 3 parameters: "crotch drop", "crotch seam bend" and "crotch seam angle". I guess breast fit is a complex enough change that doing it with parameters wasn't feasible, so they had to fork the designs.
In the British Army every subunit is entitled to train someone in sewing and using sewing machines so that they can repair the subunit’s clothes and webbing equipment, including in the field. It’s a very creative course and people come back able to build you all kinds of rigs and pouches and things like this from webbing and Cordura that are extremely robust. The soldiers are all super keen to get on the course and to learn to sew.
My grandmother was a girl during WWI, just married before WWII (with my grandfather going to fight in 39), and of course she saw Korea, Vietnam, the cold war, etc.
When I was young, maybe 4, I remeber her teaching me to sew. It is one of my earliest memories of her, along with her saying "hay is for horses!", every time I said "hey grandma" to her.
I recall asking her why, and she became very soleoum, and said that I had to learn how to fix my own socks, that no one would do it for me, in a trench, during a war.
Can't say I blame her thinking, with it being the height of the cold war, the Cuban missile crisis just over, and her whole life and mind filled with the knowledge war.
Edit: I just remembered something more HN relevant. At one of the
London hackspaces there was a machine, maybe a Roland IIRC, that you
could program to do really intricate embroidery. TBH it looked like a
real hassle to set the thing up with different bobbins of thread and
whatnot.
"Home Economics", was a thing at my school too, then we did sewing
again in scouts and cadets, as the GP says make-and-mend is considered
an essential survival skill. Thing is, I'm rubbish at it and usually
stab my finger with a needle, but to this day I still pack a mini
sew-kit wherever I travel.
>I'm rubbish at it and usually stab my finger with a needle, but to this day I still pack a mini sew-kit wherever I travel
Even if I'm rubbish at it and take forever to thread a needle, I've still made field repairs to gear while traveling that were a lot better than having no repair at all.
If you add a length of thin wire from a crafts store, the kind that feels like a stiff thread, and a slightly bigger needle, you can even temporarily reattach backpack straps and securely mend rips in suitcase fabric for the flight home.
I remember my mum saying "if you're going to program you better learn to type" - that was when I was going into gr 10. I didn't always follow her advice but I did take the typing class.
I learned how to type by playing online multiplayer games in before teamspeak or whatever they use now became a thing. Although it was still quicker to type to communicate even after teamspeak.
They typing class I took was a proper typing class though, so much more learning than just where the keys are located. Old Skool stuff too like double spaces at the end of sentence puntucation. How to set up tabs. How to format letters. Just to completely date myself, I was taught PASCAL!
The US Army had dedicated Military Occupational Speciality “43M - fabric repair specialist” for sewing (renovation) until 2001. It was then merged with another to become “92S - Shower, Laundry & Clothing Repair Specialist”. In 2015, the sewing component was removed to allow extra training on operating bulk laundry machines, apparently:
I'm not associated with learnmyog.com, but have been wanting to get into MYOG pretty much since I learned of ultralight backpacking and people who were making their own packs, tarps, quilts etc.
So in 2015 I've bought an old (as in 70 years old) Singer 201-1 which only* sew straight stitch, but it does so beautifully, is easy to learn, to maintain and should probably outlast me, but by the time it has arrived I've been off to a long hike, and when I returned I told myself I was too busy to find the time (and "courage") to get started learning to use a sewing machine.
Then in 2020, an awful need to procrastinate over work lead me to finally learn how to thread it, the to take it apart for cleaning/oiling and finally I managed to half ass a face mask (and few other items including garments I ended up using on long-ish distance trails).
I then went back to BPL's MYOG⁽¹⁾ forum and r/myog ⁽²⁾, both super useful resources that have been helping gear makers for many years. I think it was on r/myog that I learned of Tim's learnmyong.com, which has since then grew into one of the best resources for (hiking gear related) patterns and educational videos (some patters are free, others can be purchased, all the ones that I've tried are of excellent quality IMO). I've also had good results with Green Pepper patterns.
* Zig zag as well as button-hole attachments do exist though (and they work surprisingly well)
> I've bought an old (as in 70 years old) Singer 201-1 which only* sew straight stitch, but it does so beautifully, is easy to learn, to maintain and should probably outlast me
this is how tech descriptions should sound. Not just hardware appliances, but also pure software. Imagine e.g. a web service with such properties.
I have a 15-90 and a zigzag attachment. I would note that the trick to the attachment is that it works by shifting the fabric from side to side. A machine with a built-in zigzag function shifts the needle. This means that you're trying to move the fabric in both axes through a machine cycle rather than just one, and that two wholly separate mechanisms are doing it: the feed dogs handle forward, and the attachment handles side to side.
I've found that the heavier your fabric is the less likely it is that you'll be satisfied with the zigzag attachment. In particular, if you're trying to bar tack reinforcement points in gear, you might have a hard time.
The buttonhole attachment, on the other hand, covers the feed dogs in the bed of the machine, and the buttonholer handles all of the movements of the fabric on its own. I've had fairly good luck with it. If you're only doing bar tacks, you can set it up to make a "button hole" with the sides overlapping, and it does a pretty good job.
I've sewn my own lightweight tent, and I've found that you really don't need a zigzag for that (assuming a pattern that doesn't require one, obviously). Packs and duffel bags, on the other hand have a lot more stress on the points where the straps attach to the bag, and you'll likely want to be reinforce those points with bar tacking.
Great explanation!
I have the other zigzag model, the "Automatic Zigzagger", model 160985 which uses cams. Have only used it for finish work on thin fabrics but did use it to mend and reinforce denim garments, and it worked quite well there as well (though again it might be different if I tried to stick to an edge there).
Tent is probably the most dreadful project I have on my list, I followed some very talented MYOG hobbyist (@leahikes) as she was designing sewing (and then resewing) her DCF tent (which she used on the A.T. this year) and getting all the angles right for a good pitch seems an epic effort. Very impressive that you managed to do that!
Thanks! I think you're greatly overestimating the amount of perfection in my tent :-)
I made my own pattern and just kind of went with it after making a 1/2 scale prototype. It pitched well enough and kept me mostly dry on the AT in 2010.
If you're dreading the project, I'd encourage you to find the nearest small child and ask them to draw you a tent. Then go make what they drew. That's pretty much what I did [0]. If you keep it down to minimum viable tent, it's really not too bad. Just practice the zipper on scrap first if you've never sewn one before :-D
Thanks for the encouragement! The tent looks pretty great, considering what was available in 2010 both in terms of fabrics choice and educational materials.
Nowadays I'm mostly a flat-tarp user. I use an HMG 10' x 8' tarp which I used with some success (and some failure) on the HRP and GR54.
Since I live in Israel, hiking locally means dry but often windy or humid (but not rainy) conditions, and for that purpose, I hope to be able to downsize to a 5' x 7' tarp, which I think I'll try my hands at once the hiking season begins here.
I think that unlike everyday garments (some) hiking garments can be very forgiving. An example is a SilPoly rain pants I made last year for a fall GR54 hike. It's not pretty and I wouldn't use on a trail like the A.T for fear of frying myself, but it worked perfectly to keep me warm in stormy days.
I enjoy the interesting Unicode use you get on this site. I use “—⁂—” as a horizontal rule and superscript numerals for footnotes, and contemplated adding superscript parentheses a few weeks ago, here and especially as the syntax in a lightweight markup language of my own for my own use. I ended up deciding not to in either case because the parentheses are too likely to be in a different font with misaligning metrics, and it’s typically worse still in monospace faces.
I've been spending a lot of time outdoors lately (climbing, hiking, etc.) and started fooling around with making my own gear. I've always been interested in the engineering/design challenge of working with flexible materials. After buying a cheap sewing machine and making a simple pouch, I decided to start designing my own patterns as early as possible to maximize learning. i.e. learning to cook, not just following a recipe.
I've made a couple of climbing packs specifically tailored to my size and requirements that have worked out great. (I've had multiple people ask me what brand it is and where could they could buy one!)
What's been really cool is learning about all of the great materials available online now. If you were limited to your local fabric store you would be basically stuck as there is a horrible selection of technical fabrics. With places like Ripstop by the Roll you can have access to state-of-the-art fabrics, fittings, etc. that are as good at (or even better than) what you can find in high-end commercial gear.
One example is UHMwPE fiber (aka Dyneema.) This fiber is dramatically stronger, lighter, and cut resistant than nylon. You can now get fabrics made from the stuff (Challenge Ultra) but the price means it's rarely seen in commercial designs. For me, if I'm going to spend several hours making a pack, the extra $30 in raw materials is irrelevant and you can get an awesome final result.
I went hiking a couple times with, among others, a dude who's been in climbing and mountaineering since the eighties at least, and was like sixty at the time. This is in Russia, so in the eighties you just couldn't buy anything in the shops, and only something via the black market. At a train platform, we met another guy like that, and it was battle story time: that guy showed us a backpack hand-made from tarpaulin, which is of course a bit of the opposite of light hiking. Our guy related the story of his climbing rope, to obtain which you had to go through a hole in the fence of a factory, then walk on the roof to a certain door, knock and say ‘I'm here to see Mikhail, about this thing and that other thing’.
Meanwhile here I am trying to gather courage to hand-fix holes in the accumulated twenty pairs of socks, and then graduate to the more involved things. Bit of a nuisance that every Youtube video on how to fix this kind of holes just says that darning is the answer. Come on, I know how darning is gonna turn out with my skills—surely there's a crappier but simpler alternative.
>I know how darning is gonna turn out with my skills
It's going to suck super bad, and you are going to be super slow. And after a couple of socks it will be easy. The learning curve is a speed bump. Easy to get over when you move forward.
I ended up hand sewing several patches onto my synthetic $100 MTB shorts just last week. No guides, and the process was excruciatingly long, but it turned out fine. Give it a shot! I gained a newfound respect for sewing.
I think patching would be rather easy, for me. Slap two fabrics together, and then keep backstitching until satisfied. At least, I repaired some seams and didn't have any trouble.
The problem is, putting a patch onto every hole is questionable aesthetically, practically and economically. But alas, even with straight-line rips, Youtube's answer outside of patches seems to be darning—and I understand the logic behind that solution, but I don't accept it as the final one.
There's also one guy (at least) who stitches such rips in one pass without darning and with minimal bunching-up, but he somehow seems to put the thread inside the fabric, which so far is like magic to me.
Outdoor gear is the perfect onramp for sewing, and it's how I got started!
Function is more important than form outdoors, so compared to say your work clothes it's ok if stitching is messy or fabric doesn't match.
Repairs are an easier way to get started than creating something from scratch, and outdoor stuff breaks. I've fixed and patched lots of holes, replaced a few zippers. Most recently mended the strap on my hiking pole that a critter chewed through overnight.
Gear modification is another ease into sewing. Old gear can be modernised, features can be copied from friends' gear, and gear can be customised to your specific needs. I've added ice axe loops and hip pockets to a pack, made a frame bag the exact size of my mountain bike, added elastic to a drawstring bag that wasn't cinching properly.
hi there, LearnMYOG.com is my site. I saw a bump in traffic and was shocked to see HN! Thanks for the share and for everyone visiting my little corner of the internet. Happy to talk more about making gear or related projects :)
"Learn this one great trick the fashion industry doesn't want you to know!" ~ Turns out it's just sewing.
Jokes aside, this is great. I've made some of my own stuff. It's really liberating to make equipment that is exactly what you want. A backpacking buddy made an entire internal-frame backpack. I hope to work up to that level with time!
I have some in-laws who were avid hikers in the USSR at a time when it was nearly impossible to get off the shelf gear. They showed me some of the stuff they'd made by hand, including a backpack with an aluminum frame and cloth salvaged from an old parachute, and an inflatable boat they used to go camping in inaccessible areas. Both of them were indistinguishable from what you would get from a factory.
Because a lot of that was done in the factory meaning there was a cottage industry for a lot of it. Done in a normal factory and then sold on the side. Your salary was say $100 a month no matter what you did, you could make things on state time and then sell it and make double that(and still collect the salary). Same reason why vegetables bought from private peasant plots were amazing and kolkhoz stuff you bought in store was shit(when it was there at all lol).
Of course you had to pay some kick back to a manager or more likely give him a case of samogon.
IIRC, the wife was a chemist, the husband was a physicist(?) and their kid is a Tolkein/D&D nerd who grew up and got a computer job. No factory involved. Before he passed away the husband showed me the arc welder he built and I got to tour his apartment in Moscow that he'd completely remodeled with cast away flooring and wall paneling from some pre-revolution building that was being torn down. He was basically just very "handy" and applied that skill to making camping gear sometimes.
If you are interested in myog stuff, there's https://www.reddit.com/r/myog/ for you.
Lots of inspiration and a place to ask questions (and have them answered).
I was reminded by 'chrisseaton's comment that in the US, Smoke Jumpers (wildland firefighters who parachute in to rugged, inaccessible areas and fight the fire by hand) make and modify their own gear in the off season.
Elite Firefighters Have a Secret Skill: One of rookie smoke jumpers’ first lessons—after leaping from a plane and packing a parachute—is learning how to sew.
The site lists a variety of fabrics and such with links for the USA. Any idea where to get these sorts of materials in Australia? There just don’t seem to be proper local equivalents of Ripstop by the Roll or Quest Outfitters, and those that do ship overseas are rather expensive with high lead time (e.g. Ripstop by the Roll does, but even the smallest item costs USD18.24 to get it in 4–8 weeks, or 2–4× that to get it in within 1–2 weeks—actually, 6–7× if you live in a rural area like I do, FedEx is absurdly expensive that way, adding literally a hundred AUD, whereas the cheaper USPS option adds no more).
My ideal would be a physical store somewhere in Melbourne so I could see and feel the fabrics before buying (high shipping costs makes getting samples an expensive business!), but I doubt there are any physical stores for this kind of thing. I would like to make a bag to fill the large gap behind/under the seat on my recumbent tricycle. I tried going into a Spotlight a while back and asking about waterproof fabrics, but they didn’t have anything along those lines at all.
Bookmarked! That's great and something more folks should be aware of.
I started making my own hiking gear years ago and it has been fun passion of mine. Cost aside, the biggest benefit is developing a comfort in modifying and fixing existing gear and eventually learning to make it look good. I started with the rayway quilt for a prairie wintercamping overbag but have since taken a UL DIY tarp tent + bug shelter, various quilts/bags, ponchos, gaiters, and various bags on longer back country trips. I've replaced a fly for an old but durable tent and adjusted the skin of a folding kayak (was not as happy with the cosmetic result on that one). It's a bit addictive. Zippers are hard to get right but once you've done this it's easy to go to scrubs or dresses. My latest purchase is a speedy stitcher awl for other projects.
If you are into this the other big category to try out is DIY dehydrated meal prep. Last weeklong trip I intentionally overpacked food to share and split and everyone wanted some of my food after a couple days on that mountain house (relative) crap. It ends up being way cheaper, tastier, and probably healthier. Leading up to a trip I just cook extra and try to be more vegeterian for dinner. Those portions of rice, bean/lentil dishes, vegeterian curries all get thrown onto some parchment paper in a rack (previously spiral) dehydrator, ziplocked, and then frozen until the trip. Switch it up with different seasoning and sides, e.g. rehydrate a side of sauerkraut, pickled beets, or some jerkey. Just word to the wise chopped potatos rehydrate slowly & poorly: easier to buy those cartoons of shredded dehydrated potato from costco. I'll buy their cooked canned chicken to dehydrate too. Also dehydrated 1/2cm wide banana slices (no soaking/additives) are my favourite snack now.
I mean sure, you can learn basically anything if you put enough effort into it. Had a friend who refused to let builders build their house and did it all basically himself, took him some 2-3 years. Only hired aid when he needed more muscle than 1 person can muster (or to check if he did OK electricity and plumbing, but otherwise all by himself).
Motivation was 2-fold - obviously save some money, but also to know how to repair stuff once things start degrading, and they for sure will, one after another.
Sounds romantic and the right things, but as somebody who knows exactly what I want to do with my life and how to get there, its just another meh no thank you for me. One has limited free time in this life, the older usually the less, and I really don't mind shelling out few bucks to equipment from ie Decathlon (for US - good quality and cheap outdoor stuff, you really don't need overpriced Arc'teryx things) and spend free time actually using it out there. You only need few items to be proper high quality for not ruining the trip, ie shoes, backpack and maybe jacket for colder times. And of course technical stuff for ie climbing or alpinism but thats another topic.
Saving tons of hours on frustration on understanding how things shouldn't be done. That is coming from person whose mom used sewing machine quite a lot, grandma was making various clothing for all their grandchildren etc.
That food preparation part is actually more interesting since you control how much chemical crap goes into it (well, obviously apart from actual ingredients for it... but I presume since you invest so much time into this you go for ie free range bio meat and similar quality of the rest). But again - I can just pop extra dollar or two per dry meal for bio variant of prepared meals, they taste wonderfully after long hard day anyway, especially if one is properly hungry. Now if somebody would come up with dried usable beer that would be another story...
Fair points, I certainly don't want to imply that I build everything I use from scratch. I couldn't ever match the quality or waterproof usability of my boots or build a bike frame. Although the latter might be a fun workshop to find...
You touch on time being short as we get older. I completely agree but in a more general sense I think it is important to consider what hobbies one enjoys, who we spend time doing them with, and what refuels us at the end of the day.
I find if I start to put a value on my personal time that equates my professional rate (physician, but not a high end specialty) nothing starts to make economic sense short of working really, really hard to avoid ever getting divorced.
Do I garden with my wife, forage for mushrooms hiking, help out on a buddy's hobby farm for credit, or do I just work more and buy it after. Some stuff really doesn't make sense: I run a zfs nas, vps for encrypted offsite backup, self host services etc at some cost + the evening thing.
A lot of this I started doing when I was a broke student that wanted to get into CS but it stuck as income changed due to enjoying it and a firm belief that the food industry and cloud offerings don't have my interests in mind.
I haven't done the organic meat thing. It is a good thought! I pressure can broth from pork bones and culled laying hens that don't see antibiotics or exogenous hormones. I think next time I'll save the meat for this purpose!
To your last point: our rule of thumb is a bottle of scotch/bourbon per 2 people per 4 nights. :)
Interesting recommendation, I haven't heard of them. I checked out their MTB shorts, and this model[0] is basically identical to a pair I've bought on Amazon from various "Chinese" retailers of different names (like ARSUXEO), which gives me pause due to the massive inconsistency in quality from pair to pair.
Do you know if Decathlon actually takes an active role in the production, or are they just buying bulk e.g. from Alibaba? Their website doesn't really say much and what they do say just feels kind of generic.
Decathlon is a French company, they are huge in France and many EU countries (basically the first brick-and-mortar go-to place to buy any sporting equipment if you're on budget, or just need to buy many sporting gear in one place), and the quality of everything they sell if remarkably high, given the low prices compared to the brand names, across all kinds of products.
If someone is copying someone else, it's those Chinese companies copying Decathlon IMO.
I've always considered it the European REI/MEC, albeit a bit on the cheaper end.
For some reason outdoor gear in the US seems to go from low quality Walmart stuff straight to high end more boutique brands, skipping a "high volume, durable quality, no need for ultra-technical specs" solid affordability zone that Decathlon seems to operate in.
Not really, Decathlon is much more focused on sports gear, for just about any sport you can think of. You could go to decathlon and pick up a tent, hiking clothes, a climbing rope, a kayak, protein powder and running shoes all in the same store.
As mentioned in the other comment, the closest thing I can think of is REI, but with significantly cheaper options.
Their quality is fine. I have a lot of their cycling stuff. Of course those short are not gone give Bioracer run for its money.. but they are good enough. Their jerseys are good, I have their RC550 bike and it is good(not the tires).
They have dirt cheap fishing gear kids love, also just generic kids clothing is pretty ok.
Their winter ski stuff is also good(clothing, never tried actual skis or boots). It is not high end, meaning heavy not as warm etc but for the price it is great, for riding a lift whole day great deal.
Make sure to check sizing. It is kind "interesting" I can wear medium size ski bibs(686, Burton etc), Decathlon large I could not squeeze into. They were super nice bibs too, too bad they did not have XL or I would have bought them
Decathlon stuff is generally pretty good. I have one of their down jackets and it is amazing (and amazing values!). Sizing runs small.
They do their own designs - not generic Amazon/Ebay stuff.
There's a hiker on Ebay who showed their design studio which is co-located with one of their major stores in France. That way the designers can go down to the store and ask a customer how a new design would work for them.
In particular DCF (Dyneema Composite Fabric) is a miracle of modern material science. Dyneema is stronger than Kevlar and is famous for allegedly breaking the anchor cable testing machine when being strain tested for use for mooring cargo ships.
But it's really interesting for these types of applications because it is super abrasion resistant (perfect for backpacking gear) so you can make super light, super tough things from it.
Everytime similar discussions come up on HN someone links to https://ripstopbytheroll.com/ so I'll just do that now.
Some more patterns and fabric/material sources to consider (no affiliation). Personally I got as far as making a bug headnet and stuff sacks before deciding I’m not cut out for this, but YMMV.
Very timely. Just a couple days ago, I was describing to someone that I wanted a smartphone holder for my backpack strap... that would not invite mugging by being prominent... while permitting the smartphone to function like a hands-free bodycam (whenever bad stuff started going down, er, on the mean streets of Cambridge).
Now that I realize I can fabricate one-off outdoor gear, I don't have an excuse not to design this.
(I simply guessed at what features I'd need, and then went with a non-bottom-end Singer, on the guess that I'd be less likely to have headaches for reasons other than my lack of sewing experience.)
Recently I was trying to buy a shoulder/messenger bag made from Cordura with molle/pals webbing, but was unable to find one with specific features and dimensions that I want. I'm thus increasingly pondering going on some sewing course. This makes me interested in the linked website in theory, but after a first glance, I seem to find it lacking in a number of ways:
- For starters, the "zero to hero" path outlined does not seem to bring me all the way to customizing and then hopefully designing my own gear (they don't have a pattern for a messenger bag as far as I can see). I can see a set of pre-made designs that I would need to buy (at prices that seem steep to me, when compared to actual off-the-shelf non-DIY products), but I'm not sure what I'll learn from them and how far it will get me (even if I were ready to invest) if what I'm interested is doing what would be actually my own gear (and not just reproductions of pre-made designs).
- In the materials page I don't seem to see an entry for "Cordura", although I noticed they mentioned using "Cordura" in at least one of the designs (a backpack). That seems internally inconsistent, and especially as someone who'd be learning from scratch, I know nothing at all, so need explanations for everything. This immediately makes me worried what other places in the website may have other knowledge holes I wouldn't be able to overcome. A forum/community could possibly help me ask around when I'm struggling, but I don't seem to see one mentioned.
- I found a list of webbing methods, but molle/pals seems not there, which is surprising to me again.
Not being from the US, does anyone know of an online resource/community where I could try and learn enough to design my own messenger bag with molle/pals webbing and sew it from Cordura?
I was humbled by just how complex sewing can be for me as someone who up until recently only experience with sewing was mending rips and buttons by hand. That is to say, I have a lot to learn when it comes to applying sewing technique to patterns, and while designing patterns might be somewhat orthogonal to that, I hope I'll get to do that as well, but you're right, this website, at least for now is not about designing your own patterns, but rather about making your own gear.
I have zero experience in designing patterns, but as for the tools, I've heard great things about Valentina, an open source tool that has been also forked as Seamly2D (last time I checked Seamly2D seemed less maintained but that's all know).
As to the cost, I just checked to make sure he didn't change that some* patterns are free. The newer ones have for a pretty typical price for sewing patters as far as I can tell.
* The free patterns are for fanny pack, running belt, tote bag, stem bag as well as the stuff sacks and the zip pouch
Cordura is really hard to sew with (it can break a lower-end machine), and also surprisingly expensive even as plain cloth, so I wouldn't normally recommend it to beginners, which is what this site is about.
Good to know, thanks! Then that's something I'd definitely love to see explained on the website :) ideally with a clarification how to progress into it at some point. That said, the machine I bought a while ago is a vintage mechanical one, so presumably tough. Also, per @almog's sibling post, I just found https://old.reddit.com/r/myog/wiki/index which may be a good starting point & community for me to explore.
Cordura is a trademark name for a family of fabrics.
This site has an entire page on technical fabrics, which explains their properties with sufficient detail to continue more in depth research elsewhere if needed.
If you can’t determine how the Cordura you have in mind is different from the described samples, how do you know it’s the best fabric for your bag?
Please note I mentioned I'm a complete beginner, so I don't know how fabrics differ and in particular what does Cordura mean in detail. Thus that makes it something I would hope a page aimed at beginners would explain. Notably, a different website (https://pangolinswithpacks.com/the-definitive-guide-that-you...) linked from the r/myog wiki (https://old.reddit.com/r/myog/wiki/index) that I found in the meantime (thanks to comments from others here) does seem to wonderfully clear this out for me, and something like this is in fact what I would love to see on a beginner-friendly website. Until then, all I knew was that the stuff I bought in the past that was advertised as made from Cordura was super durable.
Did you first try searching for Cordura to figure out what is? Typing that single word into any search engine should point you to Wikipedia within the first few results.
Seems like you’re imposing requirements fora solution without understanding the problem space.
Your approach is like choosing a specific microcontroller you want to use before understanding embedded systems fundamentals. Or choosing a JS framework and being upset an “intro to frontend” tutorial isn’t centered around that specific tool.
I read the Wikipedia page for Cordura before, and re-reading it now I still find it opaque and not helping me understand what it actually is, or how it differs from non-Cordura. Whereas the page I linked above definitely helps me more.
Notably, I can totally understand a person that knows absolutely nothing about programming could come to me with a question of: "How do I create a website from scratch that would use React?" I would not start by answering them with: "Did you even try googling up what React is?", because I'm quite sure they wouldn't understand the explanation as presented on the internet. I would love to instead explain why they don't need to worry about React yet, and to show them a quick outline of a progression to get there, respecting that the decision to chose React or not is theirs in the end. And also tell them of some alternatives that they might want to explore instead of React at some point, and why.
My recommendation for a beginner would be to buy a backpack you like and sew the webbing on. Get a bunch of nylon webbing and sew a bunch of bar tacks to create attachment points.
Edit: I've done this by hand sewing hard points onto a canvas bag. Ymmv with a machine or other material
It is oriented around starting beginners on making their own packs. They have a good shoulder bag pattern that would be a good place to start if your goal is a messenger bag.
I've made his 'fastpack' a couple times and really like how it turned out! I will say, I found the written instructions difficult to follow(for me) and stuck pretty much exclusively to his videos that accompany the pattern which were much better.
They’re great for bike packing and if you’re not trying to share a space with someone else/dog. Better than hammocks in my experience and obviously less weight than a tent.
I had an outdoor research alpine bivy that was really nice (goretex) but stolen out of my vehicle - didn’t want to buy another so just kind of tried to mimic that.
The bottom section is duck canvas and the top section just ripstop nylon. They’re basically just a baggy sleeping bag with no insulation and can close however - zipper, cinch string etc
I purchased some waterproof marine fabric today for other projects but that’d probably be good for a bivy/tents. It’s pretty cheap per yard (compared to goretex) and is more waterproof than any of the materials I mentioned above
I want to like this, because lots of outdoor gear from reputable companies makes me wonder if they even test it, and markups are something like 4x (2x from China to wholesale, 2x wholesale to retail). But first you need to buy a sewing machine, and then there are the materials. You will be paying small-volume prices for a dozen or so items before you make something like a pack.
Have you ever thought to build your own piece of furniture, gone to Home Depot for the parts, and come out thinking you could have just bought one pre-made for about the same cost? Unless you have specialized needs and some free time, it usually isn’t worth it.
Most hobbies are like this. I was doing silkscreening for a while and spent hundreds of dollars buying stuff when I could just go to the store and buy an already printed shirt for not a lot of money. Seriously doubt I’ve even come close to seeing a return on investment considering I haven’t printed all that many T-shirts and discovered the online custom printing companies since then — though I’m not very impressed with their quality since the printing is coming off after a handful of washes while with the ones I’ve done the printing is outlasting the actual shirt. I can only realistically do one color printing while the online ones can do whatever you want so there’s a trade off I suppose.
Also, I don’t even know how much my mom spends on sewing stuff but judging by how much my stepdad complains I’m guessing quite a bit. But she enjoys it and that’s all that really matters.
A sewing machine can be used for repairs and alterations. I think this is what majority of sewing machine owners do with them most of the time. A lock stitch machine and an iron is equivalent of having 80% of power tools you can buy in Home Depot as far as garment care and maintenance goes (and a cover stich/serger combo pushes it to 99%).
It really is. Sometimes it's useful like 3d-printing (make custom thing), but often it's just like having the right replacement part for something that broke.
Here's some real examples from myself:
Repairs (crotch of my jeans x 10, broken strap on backpack)
Functional modifications (add pocket to jacket, add attachment points to a bag so I can mount it on my bike rack, lined a jacket with some scrap wool material to make it warmer)
Aesthetic modifications - what got me into it in the first place (slim shirts, taper pants, hem pants, replace buttons)
Small custom makes - mostly leather (my wallet, passport holder, kindle slip cover, tote bag)
Large (involved) custom makes - bicycle frame bag, hammock underquilt
It looks fun, this stuff has interested me for a long time.
My problem is that, simply, once you make your bag...then what?
I have casual interest in a lot of "make-y" stuff, but reality then clouds up the sun.
Sure, it would be neat to make, say, cabinets. But how many cabinets can I actually use? And tooling up to make a rolling cabinet with some drawers, that is a SINGLE cabinet, it all starts to get quite excessive.
Some places have things like carpentry clubs, etc., but they're fraught with liability issues. I don't know of a sewing club that would have a machine strong enough to sew a cordura bag that one can borrow.
Simply, the barrier to entry for a utility piece of kit is quite high. I don't think my friends want a bunch cabinets, or backpacks, or leather wallets, turned pens, etc. for Christmas gifts the next 10 years.
Indeed you have to enjoy the journey and the doing more so than the outcomes, but, even still, it's definitely a step up to get going.
At least with my computer musings, the garage and land fill doesn't fill up with borderline and failed attempts, or even the successes. Visions of Mel Gibson tossing his broken rocking chair into the corner of other failed rocking chairs in the movie 'The Patriot'.
I got into leatherwork as a covid hobby. All hand tools, most of which are cheap. I store everything except the material and a ruler in a single organizer box.
To get rid of the stuff I make, I just give it to other people. Usually it helps if they're things people actually ask for, like custom purses, bags, and cute dinosaur figures. I only produce a few items a year so no one's getting overwhelmed with stuff. As for waste, you just minimize it and learn how to fix, undo, or hide your mistakes.
This is a great little device for repair of backpacks, heavy duty cordura materials, etc. It's not really suitable for making anything from scratch, but for those without sewing machines it's far superior to just needle and thread.
I've always wanted to get into sewing my own clothes, but the fact that fabric is very expensive has always kept me out of it. It is a lot cheaper to buy pre-made clothing than to make your own. Even if you buy existing fabric from 2nd hand stores and turn it into your own project, it still can be cheaper to just buy pre-made clothing.
The DWR coatings are something I'd like to be more informed about. Does anyone have good links to discussions of options with pros and cons, environmental impacts, etc?
Many of these DWR are integrated into the fabric but Nikwax sell some good environmentally friendly wash-in DWR. They also have a well reputed waterproof clothing line called Paramo which uses these coatings along with some other tricks.
Thanks for the tip! I'll check them out. I have an old backpack in need of a new DWR treatment, but with recent news about PFCs I was uncertain what to look for. It would sure be nice if the fabrics with integrated DWR were more upfront about what was in them.
Cannot speak for the environmental but DWR is usually contains either wax, silicone or fluorocarbon. The latter is I think the more durable of the three.
DWR on outer clothing layers such as shell works in tandem with inner PU or PTFE membrane that has pores ranging that are large enough to allow water vapor out but small enough to block non vaporized water.
So why do we need the DWR layer at all?
I haven't mention it so far, but this combination of DWR layer + Membrane is the basic setup for WP/B (Water Proof Breathable) garments, but the membrane layer by itself in most case should provide the most breathability and water protection, however it's such a flimsy layer that it'll be anything but durable. That's one reason why we need at least an external protection layer. Okay, but why should it be DWR? Imagine that we had a cotton layer on the outside. why, it could provide good protection to the membrane and could wick vapors too. The problem of course starts when the outside becomes wet, either by rain or by over sweating. Then the membrane could be as good as it can get, starts to buffer vapor, that vapor soon accumulate as sweat and everything breaks.
The idea with DWR is to remove the "queue" of vapor as efficiently as possible - let it bead and drop, making room for more vapor to go out.
That sounds great, however, DWR finishes break down, mostly due to abrasion and if not renewed (and DWR renewal only works to some degree), it end up being regular waterproof shell at best.
Why do I say "at best"? because the problems do not end here — the membrane itself, in this setup, comes in direct contact with your body, it absorbs fats, salts, sun screen and who knows what, which clogs it, and over time, if not cleaned properly, makes gradually less effective in transferring vapor outside.
What's more, the fine membrane structure over time, not only get clogged but will lose some of its structural integrity due to abrasion and will allow water in.
So, like in that Simpsons episode, we had lizards, then we got snakes to eat them, so now the gorillas that eat the snakes* are for example, internal layer that sandwiches the membrane and protects it. That comes at some breathability cost and weight.
Another solution which is simpler than WP/B is to embrace completely waterproof shell with good ventilation, depending on the kind of activity but I find that completely waterproof (non-breathable) fabric with pit zips works great in variety of situations. Some people would prefer a poncho which also provide excellent ventilation (but is less suitable for high exposure or bushwhaking).
* And then just simply freeze to death when winter comes, problem solved, except that there are other inherent problems with the premise of WP/B (Andrew Skurka has a great take on it in his book)
This is cool. Seeing as I can never get around to sending my ski jacket in for repair fast enough to get it done for the upcoming ski season, I might have to look into DIYing some repairs in the next month or two.
Thread! Where do I get decent thread. Decades ago I had linen? button thread that would last in tough places, but now I can't find a substitute. Quilting thread doesn't last.
These are great examples of threads to use in outdoor applications (I use Tera 80 and 60 almost exclusively). However, I believe* polyester threads are not a popular choice when it comes to quilting (unless of course they are referring to the kind of quilt you use as part of your sleep system ).
Going through Gutermann's catalog might be a good starting point though.
* Since I don't have hands-on experience with quilting, I resort to belief
At the supermarket ask someone in the produce section if they have any empty non broken broccoli shipping boxes. They are usually just thrown away and are polystyrene coolers.
Or you know, just buy one, cry once and get a Yetti.
This is great. I think the $20 ask for the shorts pattern is a bit high since already made shorts can be bought for twice that. I wish the patterns were free and all revenue could come from affiliate marketing commissions from the fabric/materials suppliers.
https://github.com/tlalexander/large_format_laser_cutter