Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
EVs cost 22% less to service than ICE cars, new data shows (fleetworld.co.uk)
45 points by snikolaev 2 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 117 comments

I have owned an EV for the past 5 years (50k mi mostly commute to work) and here's what I've paid for maintenance:

Wiper fluid, replace 12v battery (due to COVID and not driving).

That's it.

I did go to the tire shop but they pulled a screw from the tire, patched it up and told me there's plenty of tread. They also inspected the brake pads and they were years away from replacement (due to regen braking).

None of the following I had to do for my first 5 years owning an ICE car:

* fuel, oil, air filter replacement * replace oil, brake pads. * (if you're unlucky) transmission/engine repair

Never having to visit a gas station (unless I'm low on tire pressure) is zen.

The gas station thing I wholeheartedly agree with. I have a fully charged car every time I enter my garage and never have to play that guessing game of if I’ll need randomly add 10m onto any drive to get gas. It’s wonderful.

That said, if I had to rely on public charging for my day to day, I’d be in the same spot as a gas car —- or worse, with only access to a level 2 charger.

I was in Steamboat this weekend, and for some reason they have no superchargers. Relying on a level 2 charger giving me 10% charge after an hour was.. tedious at best. I would not want an EV if that was my regular experience. It’s one reason I’d never recommend anything except a Tesla until there are widespread level 3 chargers for all brands.

I live in Europe, I usually have to park my car way down the road. Am I supposed to run an extension cord from my house to my parking spot every night? The infrastructure for EV is not on par with classic gas stations for those who do not have a garage close to their house.

In my neighborhood in London (maybe everywhere in London?), most of the lampposts by on-street parking have charging ports [1]. So you just park near a lamppost and plug in at night. There's a QR code you scan, then you click on a web page and it starts charging. Pretty cheap and easy. It's honestly easier than going to a gas station.

So in my experience, having an electric car in London is super convenient. There's myriad ways to charge it and increasingly good rapid charging options along major routes. But I'm sure that's not everyone's experience in every neighborhood or city. Hopefully things keep improving as rapidly as they have been.

NB: I have seen someone in London string a charging cable up through their non-ground-floor apartment window once, but only once :)

[1] https://www.ubitricity.com/charge-points-uk/

That's the kind of infrastructure that needs to be available everywhere to make EV charging a viable alternative to classic gas stations. I expect this to be commonplace everywhere, bar any ubiquitous underground wireless charging facility. But unlike the UK, the country I currently live in seems to be 10 to 15 years behind in all technical developments, so I don't expect anything like the London experience to materialize around here any time soon.

Plus, while what you say is probably feasible for bigger cities, I'm not convinced yet that small to medium sized cities will introduce something similar anytime soon, or is it the case in the UK?

Just out of curiosity: how far apart are the lamp posts in London? How difficult is it to actually get a parking spot by one? Can more than one car in the vicinity of a lamp post charge their car or only one per post?

In an urban situation you're supposed to plug your EV into the CCS charger which can charge at up to 350kW. Hyundai/Kia, Porsche, Audi, and a growing number of other companies make 800v cars that charge to ~80% in under 20 minutes.

Or, you use a carshare, and the car is located in a garage/lot where it spends every minute it's not in use plugged into a charger.

EVs aren't a solution to the unsustainability of individual car ownership in high population density areas.

I'm not in an urban environment, and the part about "under 20 minutes" is what I'd call "not on par with classic gas stations".

There's no (usable) car sharing services that I'm aware of where I live.

Put a pressure on your employer to install chargers.

My employer is the government, they don't even provide enough parking spaces for all employees. There's a waiting list.

According to Plugshare, there's a 125kw CCS charger in downtown Steamboat Springs. There were also lots of Level 2 chargers and three tesla 'destination' chargers.

The hazards of buying a car with a proprietary DC fast charge network, I guess. Especially given how CCS chargers are now twice the speed of Superchargers and less 'oversubscribed.'

Re: gas stations for tire pressure - it's the worst! They'll charge an exorbitant rate, the timer cuts out before you get to your fourth tire, someone is parked in the way or the machine is down - filling the tires was literally my least favorite part of car ownership for years, and I tend to do most of my own simple maintenance like oil changes.

I bought this tool on the battery platform of the rest of my power tools: https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/DMP180ZX

Best $120 I've ever spent! Can't recommend enough. Also great for inflatable mattresses, kiddie pools, basketballs, and shuts off automatically when it gets to the pressure you set.

In California the coin-op air/water are a scam. They'll take your money, but if you ask the attendant they can turn it on from the booth. Some may even have a secret button on the side to turn them on [1]. Unfortunately for EVs, the law only applies if you are purchasing fuel.

> California law requires that station operators provide free air and water to customers who purchase gasoline or diesel fuel. [2: Complaint form if you were denied]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/3sp0jj/fyi_gas_sta...

[2] https://apps4.cdfa.ca.gov/AirWaterComplaint/#:~:text=Califor....

Looks nice, but a cheaper alternative is this one that can be plugged into the car battery. If you don't trust the pressure gauge, you can buy a nice one and still have some money left over.


I got a small 18V Ryobi thing. Have used it on car tires, bicycle tires and for inflating an inflatable pool and beach toys and a mattress. Best thing I’ve bought this year.

Gas stations charge for air?

Does your place of business have an air compressor outside, an air hose and fittings for the public to use for free?

Yeah, more or less every manned gas station in Sweden has that.

No, I meant non gas station providing air for free... Since we're on the topic of businesses giving free services only tangentially related to what they sell.

I guess one example is bikeshops providing air for bikes for free. But I agree, not many services provide things for free. I’m assuming gas stations see it as a way to draw in customers, many also have bathrooms for free.

Yes it’s common to have a timed payment machine for air. Usually dual purpose with a vacuum machine as well.

Interesting, here in Sweden air is always free, however vaccums cost money (but way less stations have vaccums).

A $10 manual, high-volume bicycle pump works fine.

It doesn't actually take very long even from nothing and since it's designed for high pressure it doesn't even take much effort to get up to normal car tire pressures.

Small, battery powered inflators are pretty nice to have around.

But FYI for anyone else who is having this struggle: most tire places will check and fill up your tires for free (even if you didn't buy tires from them).

I live in the northeast with a Chevy Bolt (now with a battery that doesn’t explode). I did have to buy snow tires and have to swap them bi-annually. Still I agree with the OP that the number of things one must do to keep the EV going is much smaller than an ICE. Always read the manual on the maintenance schedule

Feel like the brake pad and tire part are more just luck but agree that they're less maintenance overall. Downside is when they break there's no fixing them :)

Brake pad and tire are extremely user dependent (in same car model). How you drive dictates their wear (faster braking/cornering == faster wear)

But in most (all?) EVs you have regenerative braking that reduces the load on the brake pads, so they last longer. You can kinda do the same in an ICE by coasting down but it takes a lot more preplanning and annoys impatient people behind you.

I dont think I ever use brake pedal anymore unless something unexpected happens. I heard even some EV owners complain about rust build up due to lack of use

I’ve driven an automatic ICE cars that automatically do engine braking.

And that was a nothing fancy Hyundai.

(And of course if you drive manual you can do this yourself).

One can occasionally do engine braking in an ICE car, but it is simply not feasible to use it for most, or even significant fraction of one’s braking needs: try driving through a city without touching brake pedal (actually please dont, it’s dangerous). On the other hand, in an electric vehicle/hybrid, you can use regenerative braking for a huge chunk of braking situations. If you use it half of the time, that extends life of brake pads by 100%, which is huge.

I drive a stick shift and I would bet that at least half of my braking is engine braking. It's pretty much my default behavior if I want to slightly slow down to downshift and then immediately shift back.

With an ICE, I have no idea whether the wear and tear you avoid on the brakes is offset by the strain you put on the engine or if it saves or wastes gas. Don't know don't care. I just do it because I am Walter Mitty.

I’m convinced most automatic cars disconnect the engine and drive wheels when you step off the throttle, thus keeping a small amount of fuel running to the engine and putting more wear and tear on your brakes for the braking. With the exception of the 2014 Hyundai I was driving.

One could shift the automatic gear selector to 3 or 2 (or whatever you have) to engine brake in most autos. This is taught as a thing to do if your brakes fail.

But on my manual, I can take a freeway exit and do most of my braking from 120km/h to about 15km/h through the engine. And similar if the light ahead turns red.

This is actually what you’re supposed to do in a manual: be in gear at all times so you can accelerate if you have to.

My brakes will probably last 3-4x longer than an automatic’s.

My experience in my vehicle (mazda cx5) is that foot off both pedals seems less drag than engine braking from a downshift in a manual, but also more drag than neutral/clutch disengage in a manual.

Letting the drag slow the vehicle in an automatic is still a win -- your instantaneous MPG goes to >99 and you save wear and tear on multiple parts of the vehicle. It's a really big win, and with people so antsy about the price of fuel (aka the cost of driving) I'm shocked to observe how many people are still driving in very expensive manners (fast starts, hard braking)

> even significant fraction of one’s braking needs It's easily practical if you drive in a non-aggressive way. (Its not a race )

I frequently coast up to red lights and stop signs, shedding 25-50% of my miles per hour, but brake wear is greater under heavier loads so doing 25% less breaking is a lot more than 25% savings on wear & tear.

I'm not sure what % is a "significant" threshold for you, but >25% is definitely significant to me.

Many EVs support a regen based "1 pedal" driving mode, where lifing from the accelerator slows the vehicle rapidly. This leaves brakes for emergency stopping and parking. My 2017 Tesla MX-100D doesn't quiet have this (you need brakes below 5mph), and I have almost 0 pad wear.

Where you will run into problems with brakes is due to corrosion if you live in a climate where roads are salted in the winter. Since the pads last so much longer, there is a danger that the disposable parts that are designed to last the normal lifetime of pads will corrode and fail before the pads wear out.

FWIW, in 5 years, replaced my wiper blades, tires, and washer fluid and that's it.

You've found tires and brake pads which are still legal after 50,000 miles???

That's more impressive than the engine tech.

Please share more details.


80k mile warranty. They should have plenty of tread at 50k miles.

Most US states don't inspect vehicles at all.

In Germany, all cars mandatorily need to be inspected after two years, or else you're not allowed on the road at all. And they really mean it: I once missed the two year mark by a month or so, and got a nice fine from the officials (luckily, though, in car country Germany, all car-related fines are ridiculously low).

My car has a blinker light in the outside mirrors, the right one of which stopped working after I reversed into a wall with the mirrow. I replaced the mirror glass but didn't bother about the light, given that the ones in the front and back of the car worked perfectly fine. Well, that was enough for them not letting me pass the inspection - I had four weeks to get it fixed, otherwise my car would have been off the road. The repair set me back almost 500 Euros, for an effing small blinker light...

Besides smog inspections the only one I ever had to do was after our car was totaled by a hailstorm - that makes it a salvage title and you have to be inspected before you can get back on the road.

The only thing that was a close call was the passenger window would stick sometimes but it rolled down for the inspection so we were good to go.

brake pads in EVs deteriorate much more slowly due to regenerative braking. I've had 2 EVs and haven't replaced the pads on either before I sold them.

I think the tires themselves degrade faster due to higher weight of EVs(battery weight essentially).

Didn't have to replace the tires on our Kona which we had to 25k miles, but it was probably near time. That thing came with terrible tires, and Hyundai didn't bother tuning the car too much -- the tires would skip every time if you floored it.

Brake fluid should be changed before 50k. With regen braking maybe you'll never notice the degradation but the components won't appreciate the ever increasing water content.

I'm confused why you wouldn't need an air filter replacement in an EV? Do you just not use A/C?

I believe they are referring to engine intake air filter, being a critical consumable component.

As opposed to AC getting worked for a few years and the cabin air filter merely getting stinky, but manageable.

Oh gotcha! Thanks!

I don't know anything about cars but wouldn't you need an alignment and/or tire rotation?

You're correct, and the parent only listed the things they didn't need to do. Parent most likely did tire rotations, and alignments are situationally specific to touching the suspension or putting on a wheel/tire combo that isn't close enough to the "OEM spec" for the vehicle.

Air filter should require pretty much the same replacement, ICE or EV, no?

How about when the battery goes bad. Currently only ice owners keep their cars for a r-e-a-l-l-y long time, in general. If ev's ever come down in price, and more 'regular' people buy them, i'd expect the battery cost is going to crush people. Let's see what happens when people routinely try to keep 20 yr old evs.

The average age of a car on the road today in America is 12 years. According to Hedges & Company, only ~10% of all cars on the road today are 20 years or older[0]. That’s not a small number, but “in general”, people do not drive 20 year old cars.

The minimum battery warranty for an EV in the US is 8 years or 100k miles[1], and crowdsourced reports of battery degradation over time suggest that (at least for Tesla vehicles) it is not a major issue; range loss averages out to around 11% at 200k miles[2], which is the expected EOL for most ICE vehicles[3]. There are anecdotal reports of high-mileage EVs running on the same battery for over 350k miles[4] and 620k miles[5] without issue.

[0] https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2022/02/how-old-are-cars/

[1] https://www.myev.com/research/buyers-sellers-advice/evaluati...

[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3m9wqlxPBo8ziDYVm5c...

[3] https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32758625/how-many-mil...

[4] https://insideevs.com/news/342457/this-tesla-model-x-90d-cov...

[5] https://jalopnik.com/one-tesla-model-s-has-gone-nearly-1-mil...

While I agree that batteries are getting better and cheaper, there are several issues with your sources.

1. There are only 9 data points for only 1 brand of EVs on that sheet. This is essentially anecdotal data. There are 10 data points (just as many) of batteries under 80% of capacity with varying mileages. What happened with those? As a consumer, I don't want to get bad luck of the draw and be one of those.

2. The 1 million mile Tesla is on its 3rd battery pack. It's not a valid observation. At best we can surmise that a battery pack can last roughly ~333,333 miles under good conditions. But this is still a premium vehicle (P85) that is out of reach of most consumers with a large battery pack.

What would the numbers be for a Nissan 45 kWh pack for example? If it's roughly half of 333k, then it's not as impressive anymore. Maybe 1/3 of that?

The biggest issue though is that EVs still carry a substantial premium above ICE vehicles, which can only be realized in savings over a long period of high gasoline prices ($5+).

I expect they'll be fine. Most of the EVs that required battery replacement were early Nissan Leafs with bad thermal management systems. My EV (5yo) has 96% capacity. Can't wait to test it again at 10y.

Also hopefully batteries will get cheaper over time.

Battery cells will get cheaper over time. New battery packs for EVs older than ~10 years will often be unavailable at any price because they're no longer manufactured, or will be so expensive that the car gets scrapped. DRM features will make it difficult for third-party auto parts manufacturers to sell cheaper aftermarket replacement packs.

Zoe cars that sold 10 years ago can still get their battery replaced without much difficulties.

Cool. How much does that cost including all parts and labor as a percentage of the vehicle's value? Does Renault actually sell new production battery packs for those vehicles, or just refurbished parts with degraded capacity?

> Does Renault actually sell new production battery packs for those vehicles,


> How much does that cost including all parts and labor as a percentage of the vehicle's value?

I think you are overestimating the time it take to replace a battery with appropriate equipment.


Initially only leased batteries were available, so there is still a lot of people with leased batteries, and batteries get swapped for free when capacity drop below 75%.

The trick is that the battery capacity rarely go below 75%.

Battery replacement is something very rare (which make leasing a bad deal), 10 years laters there is still very few peoples that peoples that made their car batteries replaced.

Honestly, I trust you're being sincere, but this reads like anti-EV FUD.

I am being sincere and would like to see EVs succeed, but let's be realistic about the full lifecycle costs and residual values. This goes beyond short term service costs.

A 2002 model year Toyota 4Runner in decent running condition still retains significant value today, and can be easily repaired with commonly available parts. In 2042, will we be able to say the same about any EV being sold today?

Tesla was working on batteries with a 20-year lifespan.

I'm trying to picture what the cost of a LiPo battery array was 20 years ago, in 2002

This argument started when the original Prius came out in 1997, twenty five years ago. Lots of predictions of "totaled" priuses, an environmental apocalypse, "gotcha, liberals!" etc.

What actually happened: a cottage industry for repairing the battery packs sprung up to meet demand or when they'd fail, which wasn't that often (and indeed, Hybrid Camrys became the standard taxi cab in a number of US cities, racking up hundreds of thousands of miles on their batteries.) There are shops all around the country that do cell replacement now and getting your hybrid battery pack serviced is less painful than a lot of major engine repairs.

Bolt EVs were (in large part due to GM's extremely conservative charge profiles for DCFC) seeing much less battery degradation than expected. Right up until the manufacturing defects reared their head...and GM has replaced all the batteries, giving them a very long warranty...8, maybe 10 years? I forget which.

> If ev's ever come down in price

You can buy several EV models new for under $30k, which is substantially less than the median car price in the US.

Notable, in California EV and hybrid batteries get a ten year 150,000 mile warranty.

Speaking of Bolts, two years ago you could buy one with 30k miles on it for $15-18k. Can't now!

The argument that EV's are too expensive based solely off the purchase price while ignoring everything else gets tiresome. My take is lower maintenance costs and depreciation beats out the difference between the cost of electricity vs gas. 5 cents/mile vs 12-15 cents a mile. That's only 7 to 10 cents/mile difference. EV's cost less to run even if gasoline were free.

yeah, but i'd argue ten years is nothing. I don't doubt batteries will last 10 years, and for affluent people, cars are replaced more often than that. But if you are talking about wide spread adoption, low and lower middle class are going to keep cars much longer, if they can even afford new cars...

And speaking of, would you dare buy a used ev car? You probably are talking at least 10K for a ten year old EV, and then if the battery is shot, and you now have to dump another 8K at least. Used EVs, imo, are a risky purchase.

Agree with this. This thread also mentioned the early Nissan Leaf, and exact same thing happened, a new cottage industry popped up to support rebuilds and even further range increase.

Not really. Even boring standard NMC battery will last a very long time. Sure at some point it will degrade and only have 80% capacity but even then you can continue to use it for many years after that.

Unless you have some electrical breakdown or something like that many batteries that we are building now can easily last 20+ years.

There's surivivership bias built into this sort of analysis: If a repair costs more than the residual value of the car (e.g., like a battery pack or electric motor) or if it's impossible to get replacement parts, then it won't be reported as a cost since the work isn't done.

Given the complexity of an ICE (engine, transmission, exhaust system, cooling system, etc...) I think this would work against ICEs more than EVs.

ICE is complex, but the parts are smaller, cheaper, and have a very mature repair ecosystem.

This. In cheaper vehicles you can replace the entire drivetrain engine included for a couple grand.

Or rather, many people replace a dozen cheaper parts over a period of time.

Clearly you’ve never owned an audi (or any other german car for that matter)

I have a 90s BMW. They require a steady diet of many parts that cost many hundreds of dollars.

As compared to an EV which rarely needs parts that each cost thousands of dollars.

The ICE car costs more total, but spread over a large number of smaller payments.

Maybe with 90s models you can get away with this assuming you have access to cheap labor somehow but for post 2000 bmws/audis you can add a zero or two to your calculations (especially anything gearbox related)

Is it because they're ICE, or because the supply chain for them isn't well-developed outside Europe?

I lived in europe when i owned audis and it was very well developed just not very cheap

I would much prefer my chances at getting ev bearings than gearbox bearings for an ice.

The simplicity of Evs can’t be denied on serviceability. The only argument comes down to ignorance.

Bearings are pretty much industrial jellybeans. The biggest difference between the two is that an ICE would have many more of them.

I know, I have a pallet of spare parts including a disassembled gearbox, heads, valve trains and model specific parts because if I break any of it on my car there’s no going down the the parts store. If I drop second gear it’s nearby fatal for my car.

An ev would be better than this and in comparison to a modern ice, much much better.

As for being jellybeans, sure roller bearings you can spend an hour searching a part catalog and find something similar. But those aren’t the ones I keep spares or would swap over from my spare parts box.

Even engine bearings are becoming hard to find now on a once reasonably popular motor

I've got a spare parts engine sitting in my garage for a classic vehicle. But 35 years from now, I don't expect it'll be any easier to find a motor controller for a 35 year old EV.

Unless you buy weird bad cars, your odds of an actual engine failure is very low. Transmission trouble is a bit more common but stick to most well regarded models and you'll also be fine. My family basically only buys high miles cars for the last 30 years. Ive never had an engine failure. Transmission problems only on one Chevy truck, known for that issue.

We now have atleast 6 cars between my family, none under 200k miles, 2 of which have 300k+ miles. Haven't done a major repair in a decade maybe. I'd say the most difficult thing I've done is replaced a radiator and an alternator.

You can't go by how often a Dodge Durango blows up to talk about how troublesome ICE cars are. Anyone that wants trouble free ownership just buys a Toyota or Honda and calls it a day. Everyone else, that's on purpose and shouldn't really be used against the actual ICE concept.

complex, but stupid easy to fix most of the times.

and there's a lot of experience built around them over the decades.

Most EV packs aren’t old enough to need service yet or have already been recycled before they were installed in a car due to a fault.

I don't really doubt the numbers...in fact, I thought them a bit low. My feeling is that this will really change the automotive landscape for the overall lifecycle of a car. Seems to me that the dealership currently doesn't worry too much about immediate margin on a new car. They know that that car will come back to them for in-warranty service (which the dealer bills back to the manufacturer) and after-warranty service (loyal customers afraid to go to a less expensive garage). In a nutshell, all the real money is the recurring revenue for service. EVs will require less service...so I'm thinking the dealer will just keep their margin higher up front to make sure they don't lose after the sale. I would bet the dealers would rather sell some sort of EV that needs frequent/predictable/reasonable service...thus supporting the annuity model that has existed for decades. What to do? Build super high quality EVs that need almost no maintenance? Then you don't need that expensive dealer network. But consumers want that dealer to visit and complain to when things don't work...and that costs money. In the end, I think consumers will need to realize that their overall experience and expectations of car ownership are in for a big shake up over the next few years.

Do you have data for the comparison of profits from sales to service? I never get my vehicle serviced at a dealer. I don't know what percentage of people do, but that would play a big factor in this analysis.

I’ve serviced my poor Corolla once in 10 years. That service was NZ$1500.

It’s hard to believe my maintenance costs could fall. But it would be really nice if they do.

What about oil changes?

Yup, they gave it one.

I never did. I am ashamed, but also impressed.

We have 2 of the same car and both receive this crappy treatment and have yet to fail us.

One in 10 years? You've been extremely lucky or only driven it < 2000 miles per year I'd say. Oil change people, it's cheap and keeps things good.

I’m shocked how often I hear about people never changing their oil. This isn’t optional maintenance like wiper blades.

If it's the third Corolla Ive treated this way, and all have been in the family 8-12 years, is it wrong to call it optional?

Low KM use.

Why are you doing through a car every 4 years?

Im not - I have had two, and my wife has had one.

Probably less than 2k miles per year. The car wouldn't be worth anymore now if we had done them. It isn't right, but its hard to see that I haven't done the easiest and cheapest thing. It's hard to argue it's luck too, as it's the 3rd Corolla of mine thats had similar treatment.

I had a Corolla for many years. I changed the oil on it but the oil filter was stuck, so I never changed that. Put probably 50,000 miles on it before the muffler fell off and I got rid of it.

It was a $1200 car. You don't spend a bunch of money on maintenance for a $1200 car.

Throw it in the gutter and go buy another.

If it’s a 1ZZ-FE, I’m convinced the engine likes the abuse. Just replace the intake manifold gasket ($9 part). That engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle, in a salty climate anyway.

I don’t hear too often of people never changing their oil. Failure to change brake fluid every couple of years, however, seems rampant, and is playing Russian roulette.

Is there any link to the study/data backing up these claims? I spent a while googling and trying to find it myself and all I found was a bunch of copy+paste articles all giving the same summary.

Have owned a Mazda3 for the past fifteen years. Maintenance costs have been negligible. 22% less than negligible is… negligible.

Saving a few hundred dollars over the course of fifteen years by buying a car that’s tens of thousands of dollars more expensive doesn’t make sense.

The fuel savings might make up the difference, though. Silly to highlight maintenance expenses when fuel costs are an order of magnitude greater.

I wanted to say the same. Lexus, 8 years, 115000km, and (knock on wood) never even opened the bonnet. I only replaced tires.

I still have to pay the annual service, but nothing ever broke. The Lexus service takes care of filters, oil, and scheduled replacements when it's due. One of the milestones was 100000 km mark and service was a bit more expensive.

Funny because I even never had to refill the wiper fluid. They refill it with the annual service and apparently I don't use it enough to empty it before the next service.

Surprisingly little difference. It's simply a ripoff because electric car owners are still perceived as rich. Will come way down.

for now, EV makers have amazing margins, because they're competing against expensive ICE cars. once they're competing against each other, it'll change pretty fast

For battery electric vehicles there's also the hidden savings of having the technician coming to your home, which I believe is far more prevalent for BEV than ICE.

My experience of owning 2 EVs (2013 Nissan Leaf and then 2018 Chevy Bolt EV), the Leaf for 2.5 years/22k miles and the Bolt for 4 years/48k miles:

Never took the Leaf to a shop for "official maintenance" other than an a general evaluation early on.

With the Bolt, I never had any issues during my ownership that took my vehicle offline/out of my hands. I replaced all four tires once, at my own expense, because I wanted a different tradeoff from the OEM tire choice. I took it to the shop once for a tire rotation/cabin air filter replacement at a regular service interval, and was about to do so a second time when I totaled the car this past Memorial Day weekend.

All told, I'm still totally unfamiliar with anyone visiting my home for any kind of automotive service.

That’s disappointing, I was hoping it would be 50% or even better. Initially it’s going to be just the oil changes that you save on, but over say 10 years I’d expect not having to change cam belts etc would bring the advantage further to EVs. On the other hand, after 10 years the higher cost of EV tires will probably bring the cost balance back (although not usually considered a service cost)

Does it cost 22% less to service an EV vs a Japanese ICE car?

I believe it does, if both cars are intended to be driven the same cycle (all-season daily driver vs. seasonally used vehicle).

I still need to compile and review my vehicle expenses from the past 7 years of EV ownership, but at the end of the day, all an EV needs in 5-10 years/100-200k miles of usage is regular tire rotations/replacements, wiper replacements, and cabin air filters to your preferences. There's literally nothing else to do on the Chevy Bolt EV maintenance schedule until 150,000 miles, when it's recommended to drain and refill the vehicle coolant circuits.[0]

[0] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/chevy-bolt-maintenance-sc...

You used to buy a car to tinker. It's an appliance.

Only 22?

33% less labor time and 28% less spent on parts = 22% lower cost.

Maybe the one garage mentioned that charges more for labor when it's an EV isn't the exception.

Big Repair and those auto warranty scammers will hate this. Another 2 reasons why the US won't transition to electric vehicles.

Just a few observations

> It also uncovered that the parts component of a BEV job is typically 28% cheaper than an ICE car due to them having fewer working parts, with brake wear far lower

Not sure if comparing 850,000 fleet cars and vans with high end EVs (a majority of EVs in UK are still high end cars) it's a fair comparison.

Of course brake wear on vans is going to be an order of magnitude worse than a Tesla or a Porsche Taycan, with their oversized braking systems.

> But Fleet Assist, which has provided the analysis, warns that the SMR price reductions are not guaranteed in the longer term due to the rising operating costs of garages.

it's not clear why that should make a difference between ICE and EV.

> “Garages are already starting to come to terms with how EVs will impact their servicing revenues and workshop traffic in the longer term. We may see more garages looking at ways to address how the paradigm shift of BEV aftersales is going to challenge their service provision and fees they charge,”

So basically, sounds like there is still more "fluff work" that garages can do nowadays on ICE cars to make more money and are not ready to do the same for EVs yet.

But the day when they'll invent the (unnecessary) "you absolutely need a change of oil" or "break pads are gone, we have to change them" for EVs is just around the corner.

Brake wear is lower because of regenerative braking. In my car I barely use the brakes at all

> Brake wear is lower because of regenerative braking

that's specifically why I've mentioned "high end cars".

Most hybrid cars use it too.

Most high end ABS systems are way more gentle on the brake pads than a 20 years old Ford Transit van.

> In my car I barely use the brakes at all

that's what most good drivers have been doing in the past 50 years.

Especially on manual.

Just because a car is high-end doesn't mean it will have less repairs. In fact, the opposite is true.

> Just because a car is high-end doesn't mean it will have less repairs

Too bad I didn't say that.

I was specifically referring to brake wear.

But even though high end cars cost more to repair in absolute, they are usually built for higher durability.

Except probably Tesla.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact