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Applying the hacker / engineering mindset to Spirituality
29 points by resatori 4 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 37 comments
I have been a software engineer for 10 years and also spent now 7 years living in Goa/India and got into spirituality doing many different groups.

I have started a dog shelter with 65 dogs (insta @dog_temple_goa ) and learned a lot ... About life&death&healing

I would like to share my discoveries , but not sure how yet.

Just trying to use my instagram account now for sharing: @michaelsappler

Any input?




> I would like to share my discoveries , but not sure how yet.

Having gone down a similar path (but more oriented towards a weird mix of Shamanic, Daoist and Zen ideas, with some Hindu aspects mixed in), I think it is nice to exchange ideas - but learning/understanding comes from within the individual.

Do not be discouraged when your efforts in sharing are not immediately met with recognition and/or applause (in fact: if it comes, it comes, if it doesn't, that is ok as well), and be prepared that some may not want to hear about them (and - given how regrettably spirituality has been abused in the general population - lash out either against the concept as a whole, or about your specific variety as it disagrees with theirs).

I'm looking forward to read about your insights.


Exactly, it depends fully on the individual. We are all completely unique and need a different approach (which each person needs to find on their own).

So everything whats out there is _bullshit_ ! :) It does __not__ work!!

Nobody wants to hear about it. What we do need to do is listen. We are all each others teachers.


It's hard. HN specifically doesn't respond well to it. I'll give you concrete example: I once tried making a comment and mentioned 'universe rewards creativity', that got downvoted pretty hard, even though as engineering mind you should consider stuff like:

- solving a problem in a smart way and get cred/promotion/recognition <- creativity rewarded

- asking out/getting attention of a girl/boy you like <- creativity rewarded

- paying for clothes you think is cool (some t-shirt with a cool text/drawing or something that looks good on you, etc) <- you literally giving money to the person who created it

I'd love to hear your learnings though. Please do post where you are going to share them.


Yeah, there are certain superstitions. The words have to be chosen carefully for the audience. 'Universe' is just too ... 'universal' of a word to make any sense of meaning of it.

A better approach may be just to offer practical tools how to increase our potential for creativity... things we can actually try and do. It is a reward in itself.


Then how are people going to acknowledge there are greater things than ourselves? There's no real compassion where you can find only ego. Becoming one with the universe is a real tangible goal that multiplies enlightenment all around us.


You are right


Lots of thought we have is grown and more like a self discovery along your own path.

Generic concepts, which have been thought of by plenty of others are easier to grasp.

Like I thought about things until my sister gave me the word for it: nihilist.

Understanding nihilim is still different than coming to the conclusion of nihilism.

But plenty of other people draw their lines somewhere else. They don't follow philosophy because it's just not important for them.

Or they made their peace long ago.

Your example with creativity doesn't fit my world of nihilism at all (I wouldn't down vote it).

So we are not aligned at all. And you / we are probably not aligned with lots of others on spiritual concepts.

Im thinking about something similar to creativity: we are now so many people with fast interconnection in between us (internet, video) and the general though of something new that it's just a logical consequences that we need to explore all boundaries around us.

I also have plenty of counter examples which did not gave a reward for being creative from 'the universe's.

Being an artist is not easy.

Your thshirt example is also more realted to capitalism. The original motivation is getting money for food.

Those systems / constructs are not made by the universe they are made by us. Those are our constructs.

We reward creativity due to the desire for new stimula.

This goes more into machine learning or game theory: how to train a network to create an image? By creating a counter network checking if something is not an image.


The modern Buddhism and related meditation practice would fit you nicely.

Read:

1. What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula

2. The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa et al.

Also:

3. Why Buddhism is Right by Robert Wright.

4. Mindfulness in Plain English by Bhante Gunaratana

_____

Buddha did have hacker mentality: this is what has been clear in my reading of Buddha and his teachings.

He wad given the name Ehipassiko meaning he told everyone to forgo blind faith in anything- also to his own teachings. Listeners were supposed to try things for themselves and verify by themselves.

And many people now like to sound hip by saying the corporate meditation and spirituality practices (by the likes of Jobs) are not real Buddhism. Do not listen to them and steer away from Buddhist religion. Corporate meditation, american retreats are more close to the Buddha's teachings than the incense burning and bowing to statues in SE Asia.

Study of Nyaya-Vaisheshika and Nagarjuna could be beneficial, but these require more background.

____

(This comment is not an invitation for debate.)


Since you want to share your discoveries I suggest you get as good as you can at writing. The only things I know that have a strong impact on that are reading critically, writing, editing and getting feedback on your writing.

To point at this post, I have a hard time following it. I don't see what the title has to do with any of it besides you being a software engineer. The lessons came from the dog shelter, not engineering. Then the issue (you want to share your discoveries but don't know how) is something engineers are notoriously not good at.

You could also choose any medium besides writing. Coaching, podcasts, videos, etc.


Just a friendly interjection:

"hacker" does not necessarily imply "software engineering" or even "engineering". Especially us old-school folks understand "hacking" more as "curious, out-of-the-box thinking and exploring", which may just as well relate to engineering as it may relate to social interactions or cooking the perfect cup of coffee.


I focused on the "engineer" part of the title, but there's no more clarity if I looked at "hacker".


The problem with writing to general audience is, it is too general. We are too different ...

My lessons came from my critical analyzing mind applied to living beings and feelings.


There is strong evidence out there that some spiritual things are real, more than just being a placebo/make-believe. There is something else going on, contrary to the accepted belief that the brain is a biological computer.

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/ is one of a few places that applies scientific method (pretty much hacker/engineering mindset) to such phenomena. Maybe get in touch with such places?


There is no strong evidence out there at all.

The list of things they list (no joke they also list poltergeist) are easily dismissed.

There has been no real reproducible evidence for any of it.

They even state empirical evidence. Like saying 'hey we can't really proof it but ...'

They mention telepathy which would be easy to verify.

They would even get 1 million dollar if they could proof it.

You should look up James Randi.


It isn’t telepathy, modern quantum terminology has it as “teleportation” (hate that word.) the wormholes are in our brains.

If you could reliably hear the thoughts of others a million bucks isn’t your problem, it is the secret power occult society of thought control (who will human sacrifice your children to keep you quite.)

Those skilled in manipulating consciousness (aka “power”) were less guarded in generations before (mastermind theory of MKS and Napoleon Hill discuss how intelligent people explore and identify this phenomena in the past.) I like those stories about the voices alerting people of health crisis. PKD even has one such stories.

Their explanations make more sense if disembodied others are fooling around in our minds, rather than these actually understanding what is happening to themselves. (Of which admit it, we’re terrible at that.)

As we’re talking about our brains being entangled, the voices aren’t hiding in another room, they are a thousand miles away in isolated security. Fewer can manipulate consciousness than those sensitive enough to “hear” it happening.

Notice how many times ”the voices” are mentioned in public shootings. Or “the thoughts won’t stop. HELP ME”. Yeah, “dismissed”. Thanks science.

“Easily dismissed”, is ironic considering it is easier to refuse to believe. That’s incredulity, not science.


Feel free to believe this if you want or if it helps you.

But your simple 'explanaition' of quantum tunneling effects sounds fancy but creates so many more issues that it is as insane as it sounds.

Oh our brain is able to quantum tunnel to people who need help and ignores all other billions of people.

It's not good enough that we can proof it over pure randomness which makes it 100% useless even if this would be a thing but there are probably a 1000 other reasons why we can't use it anymore right?

I'm not sure what you mean 'by the voice' but I do know that our brain is not perfect and there are illnesses out there like schizophrenia.

I also experienced basic Halluzinationen myself due to LSD and just last week when I was only hearing English for the last three weeks on holiday that sometimes my mind though it would understand German sentence from people further away.

Science means that you need to proof it. It's easy to invent something without any proof. Look: I saw God, I'm Jesus and you need to be my follower. Your duty to me is your destiny. Send me all your money.

You don't need proof and you can't even determine if I'm not son of god. Better worship me now.


> Feel free to believe this if you want or if it helps you. But your simple 'explanaition' of quantum tunneling effects sounds fancy but creates so many more issues that it is as insane as it csounds.

Feelings and beliefs are the problem.

Truth is not constrained by the horizon of our ignorance. And it is not that Truth is impossible to find, rather that undeceiving the self is difficult.

That there are more issues and that Ultimate Existential Reality is not “sane” is better in support of my arguments pal.

> Oh our brain is able to quantum tunnel to people who need help and ignores all other billions of people.

Here you introduce your crazy sarcasm and you say I cannot be taken seriously.

Those of power are like the anonymous on the interweb. They are trolls and jackasses with a scattering of sentimentalists. Disembodied meddlesome scampuous screwballs “mostly”.

The sentimentalists are plagued by these others as “power parasites” if singled out. This all kept in check through occult power games of extortion.

> It's not good enough that we can proof it over pure randomness which makes it 100% useless even if this would be a thing but there are probably a 1000 other reasons why we can't use it anymore right?

We … use …

You are the food, not the master.

“Pure randomness”

Don’t you mean the inexorable complexity of all things considered? Why didn’t they just levitate? Or teleport themselves? Or walk through the walls? I said mind entanglement, not transmutation of physical laws.

Whatever happens will look exactly as though a consequence of what led up to it. How are you to analyze how these were lined up “for the shot”? Or even described afterwards, as rewriting history is easier than conjuring it.

Consider things from the perspective of how they may have been synchronized through an act of disembodied will. Not God mind you, men indiscernible from god in other men’s minds.

> I'm not sure what you mean 'by the voice' but I do know that our brain is not perfect and there are illnesses out there like schizophrenia.

Yes, quaint. One in six “hear the voices” and it is taboo to acknowledge. It isn’t only [coharent] voices. Many can feel the physicality of others. Some their emotional confusion. It is more like a sickness than a science, really. Competent humans filter and suppress this noise and go on with their functional lives. Some become cult like power heads who you are as unlikely to comprehend as relate to.

> Science means that you need to proof it. It's easy to invent something without any proof.

No, science means you must undeceive yourself to develop a working understand of whatever “it” “is”.

Consider the snail telegraph. Never disproven per say, yet easy to write off as crazy and what dirtbag would duplicate that research?

> Look: I saw God, I'm Jesus and you need to be my follower. Your duty to me is your destiny. Send me all your money. You don't need proof and you can't even determine if I'm not son of god. Better worship me now.

Well, one might say they see God every time they open their eyes (or open their mind.) is Jesus really Christ Consciousness, and may Man be her embodiment? Didn’t the big J say “are we not all the sons[children] of God?” Do send me your money, I would set you upon a spiritual path (lean living, and an inconvenient, uncomfortable, contemplative existence).


Either you can prove things or they are equivalent to stories.

Stories like the bible, other fantasy books, scifi, etc.

You give meaning to things and speculate were there is none .

And about your snail thing: 'However, it proved to be as unreliable then as it had originally been.'

But you know I think we are so far away from our core beliefs that further discussion will not change any of our minds.have a nice day.


The thing is, we need to see our own evidence. Feel it ourself. All this scientific research is useless without our own experience.


I can see how it could be hard on HN specifically, just due to the audience. But I'd love to read your stuff! Please share some links/content if you have any. Also happy to connect, I'm mainly active on Twitter @MatthiasGabrie6




Is that the shack on the beach near Arambol? Never imagined I'll see someone from there here at HN. Very cool.


Yes we are next to food planet

Continue here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32294729


Anyway, can't help you with how, but I'll sure read a blog about this.


Hey, that juice shack!?! Dude!


I find this really interesting. Is there any way that we can follow the progress on this?


Blog, Substack, or Newsletter.


Yes of course but how to find the audience ?


If this was a link to an article about "Applying the hacker mindset to spirituality" I would be reading your blog right now.


Interesting, okay. But I am just getting started :)


That's probably the easiest thing. Non religious spirituality has a huge audience in this day and age.

Perhaps it's the fallout from the hard new-atheist/new-antitheist preachers of a a decade ago.


It should not even be called spirituality ... just how to find our full potential. The word spirituality has a very bad history ... people fought wars over who is right/wrong.


I would like to disagree.

In a pure logical world nihilism would be one potential answer.

'full potential ' would mean something different than in a pure life positive mindset.

I would go so far to say that reaching the stars is secondary as long as others still suffer in their existense.

Spirituality starts for me were your thoughts don't have a logical root.

What's 'full potential'? Why is it relevant. Why would it be better than not being born?


I am working now with my Instagram @michaelsappler


Create a blog?


master osho gives me all i need.




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