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Ask HN: I'm in a rut. How did you get out of yours?
185 points by RutStucker on July 25, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 218 comments
I'm a technical writer in his late 20's working remotely for a company based in New York. My background is in software development, but I took this job because at the time it was easier for me to find work as a technical writer than as a software engineer (and because I saw technical writing as close enough in spirit). I started the job this past fall.

In a nutshell, I'm dissatisfied with how my life is going. I can't galvanize myself to do anything. I'm on the clock right now, and here I am complaining about my life instead.

I don't give a damn about my employer, or the product it makes. I can't get interested in it. I can't get excited about the tedious parts of my work, and I can't even get excited about _automating and eliminating_ the tedious parts of my work.

And it's not just my day job. I'm ostensibly working on a game on the side, but I haven't touched it in months. I'm not even sure I want to continue it, as I've been working on it for years without being able to fulfill my goals for it. And this is coming from someone who got into computer science _because_ of video games.

Things that used to bring me joy...don't, any more. All I really look forward to these days is getting high and playing video games or watching Seinfeld reruns each weekend. And even that barely tickles my fancy these days! There's a game coming out this week that I should be excited for (because I love the series it's part of), yet I can't even galvanize myself to purchase it.

I can barely even open my IDE at work, as it greets me with dread where I once found joy and ambition.

Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person here who's ever felt like this, so my question is this: *if you've ever been in this kind of rut, what was the nature of that rut and what did you do about it?*

Also, one thing I'd like to clarify: I'm not suicidal.




Exercise, drop the drugs, ensure you have some part of your identity unrelated to work.

I was in a rut for years because my work was my identity and I wasn’t where I wanted to be (thank you effective altruism for the identity crisis lol). When I moved out to California I quit drinking (for a while, quit again more recently), focused on exercising, and set a goal of not seeing my whole identity as a software developer. It helped so much with my physical and mental health, and in turn that helped me with my work life.

Honestly if you just view work as a source of income to do the things you want to do, and get out and be a bit more active, you could get out of the rut pretty quickly.

And if you don’t care for any of these suggestions - just stay positive these things are temporary and you’ll feel better in time anyway :) We all have these moments.


Everyone says this: work out, eat good, sleep well, let go of bullshit and get the girl. The problem is that while it often works, no one seems to understand why it does - or why it doesn't work for a lot of people.

Taking care of your health and general well-being is a basic activity at some point and may not give you the necessary emotional boost to escape your own hand carved rut. The real issue is that you need to do something that makes you proud of yourself. That's what "exercise and get off drugs" advice is really trying to say, but it's never a one size fits all like everyone makes it seem.

People can gather their sense of pride from a lot of things: from helping others, to cleaning their room, to climbing Mount Everest. Maybe they feel pride from cooking a perfect lasagna or by praying every night. OP should do some soul searching and figure out why he isn't proud of himself and... make the necessary corrections.

EDIT: Apologies EddySchauHai! I mean to agree with you but also acknowledge that different things scratch that invisible itch for different people, and at different times in their lives.


Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Exercise, sleep, healthy diet and foundational to balancing your body and mind. Research shows the best way to increase dopamine and serotonin is through these consistent, simple habits. Also getting more sunlight.

Once you've covered your bases, then you can work on the spirit. The last level is self-actualization. Work in itself is only a means in expressing your existence. Either it funds your lifestyle, and that's what we call a job, or it can bring fulfillment, which we call a vocation.

This is just my mental model for a good life, but I think it's a solid start for building your own.


Out of interest do you know of any specific papers showing that Maslow's hierarchy of needs (or just what it recommends) is a good way of increasing dopamine and serotonin? I've heard of dopamine diets where you give up media etc for a few days to 'reset' so to speak, so assumed the absolute basics would decrease the amount. But I also have little to no understanding of this :)


For sure, nothing is one-size-fits-all in life!


I agree, at least in spirit.

I exercise 2 hours per day, 5 times a week, and eat healthy food: vegetables, protein, no snacks, low sugar, low salt, no ketchup, no mustard, no mayonnaise, no oil for cooking, basically anything doctors recommend, I do it, and I have been doing it for the last 5 years or so.

Does it help? Probably.

Do I still feel constant dread? Yes, every single day, but I learned to live with that feeling and focus on the happiness between work hours.


You don't have to be militant about health/exercise to get real world positive effects out of it though. Many people talk about how much better they feel after a 30 min run in the morning shrug


>> Many people talk about how much better they feel after a 30 min run

You don't even need to run. Starting your day with a 15min walk has huge benefits. Maybe someday most people can actually enjoy their physical activities but start by forcing yourself to do something, similar to flossing your teeth, will form the habit and give you a taste of the positive benefits.


Yeah the goal is to enjoy life and being healthy makes that possible for longer. I try to eat healthy but no one is keeping me away from my occasional cheesy pasta or burger. No one.


Please add animal fats or olive oil to your diet. The modern processed oils are bad. Animal based fats or olive, coconut and other traditional oils are better. Avoid palm, corn, vegetable oil. Also salt is healthy. Check out the channel what I've learned on youtube.


All oils and added fats are bad for people with heart problems or those at risk of them.


The right types of oils will reduce heart issues. Eating a carb heavy oil free / fat free life will kill you.


My father had a heart attack at 43. In response, he dropped red meat and dairy and had to have stents put in 2 years later as his condition deteriorated.

He stopped eating any foods with added oils, as well as anything fatty like nuts and avocados. He eats absolutely zero oil, just basic grains with vegetables and fruits. Ten years later and his doctor says, aside from the stents, he shows no signs of heart disease at all.

Anecdotal improvement aside, your statement about high carbs/low oil being unsustainable is false.


This anecdote is contrary to actual medical advice and does not suffice as evidence against the mountains of research.

You need dietary fats to be healthy, and healthy sources like fish and nuts are often recommended by doctors and dieticians to improve cardiovascular health.


The US also has a very poor handle on heart disease; almost 10% of men in the US have coronary heart disease. The recommended strategies aren’t working.


The recommended strategies aren't being taken by patients.

Diet and exercise recommendations work in the overwhelming majority of people who actually follow them.

This is validated by mountains of research.

The reason we have such poor health outcomes in the US is because people have such terrible diets and sedentary lifestyles which are contrary to those recommendations. And as these lifestyle choices are being adopted in other countries, you see their populations starting to have similarly bad health outcomes of the same kind (e.g., diabetes, hypertension, etc.).

All of this is extremely well-understood.


This guy gets it. It's crazy how corporate interests so thoroughly warped the common man's and even medical professionals understanding.


Yeah I don’t know about OPs health obviously, but he’s describing a lot of the DASH diet which is known to help those with hypertension.


Nope. Eating healthy fats and protein is am absolute requirement for long term health. However you don't need to eat carbs at all. The body produces the little you need.


You can try breaking those habits for a few months and see how you feel haha. Health is something we easily take for granted when we have it.

I also recommend some form of mindfulness, whether it's being fully present during a workout, or just sitting in the sun for 10 minutes in the morning.

The feeling of burnout/constant dread is a tiredness of the spirit. Physical nourishment and exercise can only provide so much. You gotta feed the soul too.


Why no mustard? Everything else you mentioned is stuff I know, but I eat quite a bit of Dijon.


2 hours a day spent exercising? It must be something you really love. I bike to work and back everyday no matter what that’s 40 minutes exercise for me. I also go to gym couple of times a week that’s already hard to fit in my schedule


Only thing I would add is get a partner if you don't have one already. Life is incredibly lonely to go through alone. I've heard that you can be happy alone for long periods, but I have never seen it in practice.


+1 on exercise, this helps me when I get down. Not only because I spend time outside and clear my head and feel better after, but also because it helps me meet people. I'm not very social to begin with and even more so when I'm in a rut and I've met a lot of people hiking or running and ended up having a good conversation which helped me.


Another +1 for exercise.

A great thing with it is that you can just basically force yourself to do it, and still reap the rewards.

I find it's much easier to procrastinate when I don't feel like working. But if I just push myself to go out for a walk or lift some weights, once I get going I'll usually see it through and feel much better afterwards. It doesn't even have to be much, just a few rounds of pushups and squats (without weights) is enough to get the blood flowing and get my spirits back up. There's something about feeling your body working that's very mentally relaxing.

Bonus points for this having an effect on my food cravings, which I've seen have an effect on mood. I think there was a related thread on HN recently, but I can't seem to find it.


This is good advice, but depression can make these things hard to accomplish.

I’ve experienced this before — falling into a rut, becoming depressed and having extraordinary difficulty getting back up. It’s like a motivation off-switch.

Talk therapy is good. Try to find a therapist that you can trust.

Don’t be afraid of anti-depressants, especially for something likely to be shorter term like this. They don’t change your personality (although you might put on 3 to 5 lbs).

Are you being treated for ADHD? Some people with ADHD find that their depression goes away when they take psychostimulants or practice CBT to manage their symptoms.


+1 for CBT. Exercise and good diet might take you so far, but not all the way. If you won't work on your mind, and the problems that accumulated there you won't go 100%.

What helped me out is finding a good information about CBT and its principles, where it explained clearly in simple terms. After that - actually doing the work myself. I did journal different situations that produced strong negative emotions or body reactions throughout the day for 3 months. Event-Thought-Emotion-Reaction. That helped out to find running themes in my head. Then afterwards every 2 weeks I went through the journal and wrote down alternative thoughts for it.

Remember when you going to the talk therapist you are expecting them to solve your problem, to give you the pill that solves everything. That won't work. You must do the job in the first place. With good information you don't even need to go to the therapist, you just need to be desperate enough that you start actually working on it. At least that what worked for me. Meditation is also pretty good, but same as exercise won't take you all the way there


As someone who has been struggling with ADHD their entire adult life. Last week was my first time back on treatment in 15 years. It felt like the brain fog had been lifted and I could think clearly for the first time ever. My situation has been much the same lately.

I will also do a +1 for exercise & talking to a therapist.[though I'm still trying to find one]


+1000

Thanks for mentioning this. If it’s depression then talking to a doctor is really important, and if you’re unsure of wether it’s a rut or depression then err on the side of caution and speak to a doctor. There’s apps like Talking Space that let you speak to a therapist if you’d rather go ‘off the books’ so to speak.


Ok so now, can I go directly to a therapist or do I need to fight a bureaucratic machine to get a recommendation or some shit.


Check out Talking Space - it’s expensive but let’s you speak to someone without a referral and have access almost 24/7. I’ve heard good things. And there is some trust-based discounts that help price wise. No affiliation with them btw!


> ensure you have some part of your identity unrelated to work

I don't want to be that guy, but this is one thing religion helps with.

If your identity is based on anything physical (e.g. family, money, looks, career, etc.) it's fragile and can be lost easily, but if it's a constant not part of the physical world, it can help live life more resiliently.


Does active atheism help in this ? Sometimes when i listen to talks by people who advocate atheism and rationalism, I feel good for a while. But I am not sure if that is what you are talking about.

I used to regularly talk/text to people interested in these things about what I see/learnt about atheism and spend time making fun of religions ( within our circle ).


Belief can be fragile too and can easily be lost. I am not very spiritual or religious myself but from what I observe with religious parts of my family and friends there is really nothing resilient about their beliefes - they need constant refreshing and practice otherwise doubt quickly creeps in (and there is a lot of ways doubt can come in - most of religious beliefs and rituals is selfserving and does not go well with critical thinking)


I might quibble a bit with the 'just stay positive' line, but the "identity that's unrelated to work" is so real, crucial, and easy to overlook. Trying to jam a sense of life purpose that's a circle into a square hole of "make money" just leads to being miserable for the sake of being miserable.


Well what worked for me might not work for them - no one will get out of a rut without positivity though. Maybe getting high and playing video games is the solution and the guy goes full time streamer and loves his work all of a sudden! Who knows :)


I don't think anyone takes issue with your belief that you need to get positive, more as advice it sounds similar to "get confident" or other "outcomes as strategies" statements.


That’s fair, good point :)


To this I would add, make sure you have a great support network, be it friends, family, significant other or even co-workers. Also, never underestimate the benefits of a decent therapist.

The weed is only contributing to your depression. You may think it helps you escape, but it actually is making it worse.


Cannot stress enough how much exercise helps. A healthy body goes a long way in maintaining a healthy mind.


How did you go about achieving that identity goal?


I’ve worked remotely for years beyond the start of Covid so my personal and work life had morphed into one. The key thing here was disassociating the two with clear boundaries. Also, I tried to stop comparing myself to others I see on sites like HN and LinkedIn who have these ‘perfect’ careers and focus on improving myself only against myself (and at a slower pace, one summer I spent the entire time on Coursera as if life was some sort of sprint and knowledge was a competition, which it really isn’t). Basically I just had to chill out and get a life, ha :)


Yes, how did you find it ?


Devils advocate; I ditched video games, TV, mindless social media, internet scrolling, but kept the daily 420 and coffee (caffeine is a psychoactive too) and I get more technical work done than ever.

In the end the weed makes what I’m doing feel more interesting. Media is designed to be interesting; together, too much stimulus.

Like remote or in office, it’s too subjective to say what is exactly right or not for others.


> All I really look forward to these days is getting high and playing video games or watching Seinfeld reruns each weekend

Not saying it's the only cause of your problems, but you shouldn't underestimate the affect that getting high can have on how you feel when you're not high (especially if it's an every day or most days thing). Consider a (say 3-6 month) detox.


I really recommend everyone to listen to Andrew Huberman's podcast [0] on Dopamine and how it affects motivation, focus, and satisfaction.

Many people see Dopamine as just a pleasure chemical, but it actually directly influences motivation and focus. We also all have a somewhat set amount of dopamine in a day, so participating in activities that release a short peak of dopamine (drugs, masturbation, etc) means that we have less dopamine, and therefore less motivation for the rest of the day.

I was also recently in a low motivation rut, however after making some lifestyle changes I feel much more motivated throughout the day. I stopped getting high, cut out all porn, and added 2 min of a cold water at the end of my regular shower. It was tough to start, but 100% worth it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmOF0crdyRU


All of your advice is good. It should be noted that taking Tyrosine can help replenish depleted dopamine stores.


Yeah it's interesting to me how little this gets talked about now days, but back in the 80s teenagers called it "antimotivational syndrome"[0] to describe what happens to stoners.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amotivational_syndrome


I get all of those symptoms periodically without weed or any other kind of drug to make it happen. Maybe there's a confounding variable there.


The symptoms in that linked article overlap with a lot of other conditions, for sure.

ADHD inattentive type, etc. Even low testosterone can cause a lot of those symptoms.


Yeah that’s now called undiagnosed ADHD, because that’s what it is.


Yeah, my motivation goes up when I smoke weed, not down. And it took me until I was an adult to realize that I was using weed to treat undiagnosed ADHD. I still enjoy smoking weed, but don't have a dependence on it to function now that I have a proper diagnosis and treatment.


Does the treatment involve other drugs? Just curious


Yes, I take Focalin XR now.


this is me but before a diagnosis and treatment. i think its time to go see doc


I thought a member of my support group said it best: "getting high makes you ok with being bored."


Being able to manage boredom is actually a Very Important skill -- much more so than the much-vaunted "21st Century Essential Skills" (like coding) that get so many dollars and media hype.


For real. I smoked weed all day, every day, throughout much of high school and all of college. After I graduated, I had to move to a new state for work and lost my "contacts" and had to stop. I thought I would really miss it, but I didn't and got over the feeling of "needing" weed pretty quickly.


Listening to a joe rogan podcast with matthew walker about sleep - seems that drugs can prevent you from getting REM sleep. So the detox might be a good step.

a related podcast clip with another interviewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwrrKlII4XA


Hey, I've had this experience almost perfectly. It's brutal, it's called burnout, and it takes a while to recover from. Loosely, it's depression, but specifically within the context of your personal connection with work. I burnt out for the second time in March 2022, and it took about a year to start having the desire to code again, and another 3/4 of a year to find another job. When I get into this state, I almost always get terminated, so you might have that to look forward to, but it's a learning experience.

Step 1) Search "guide to burnout hacker news" and just read the recent or not-so-recent threads.

Step 2) Probably lower your expectations of yourself on a day-to-day basis. Do the absolute bare minimum to stay employed.

Step 3) If you can, see a therapist

Step 4) Forget about the game for now and don't guilt yourself about it. Realistically it probably wasn't going to get off the ground anyway, and consider it a learning experience. If you give it some time and want to come back to it, you'll probably have a renewed enthusiasm, but not if you just look at the source code folder and guilt yourself about it. Detach yourself from this idea—especially for those of us with ADHD—that you'll stay interested in the same things over time, or that you should. Let it happen naturally, explore some other ideas, technical or otherwise, see what does it for you if anything.

Step 5) Take a leave of a month if you can financially (but regardless of if your employer wants you too), and see if that changes things.

Step 6) Spend that month closer to nature

I was just about on the verge of burnout recently, but I just literally got on a plane and left. I risked my job to do that, team didn't like it, but I was risking my career yet again if I didn't do it.


I’d like to underline Step 2.

My experience w/ Step 2 was playing kubb, barefoot, in my backyard for large chunks of the afternoon. Most of that time was spent telling myself, “work can wait, this is what I’m doing right now.”


Love kubb! I wish I had folks to play with during the work day ahha.


yes. One of the benefits of the pandemic was the introduction of global virtual 1-v-1 matches. Some one somewhere on the globe is likely up for playing right now ;)


This is all great advice. I'd re-iterate on what your savings/PTO is. If you can take a month off, do it. Just do it.

Stay off the drugs for a bit to let your brain return to baseline. Exercise 3 days a week. Eat healthy. Sleep lots. Rest and recover.


I would say that, while exercise is important, I wouldn't try and regiment it from the get go. Part of getting healthy mentally is just not guilting yourself about... anything. Forget about the things you have to do every day for a while, and this person might already be exercising anyway. I would recommend to continue that if they're already doing it, and exploring some new physical things if they want, but you kind of just need to give yourself the space to do what you want.


It looks like you have discovered that life is boring. Doesn't matter in tech or any profession, we work to create wealth and get so engrossed in it. Once we conquer the "wealth" part we feel we don't have a meaning or a purpose anymore. And life is actually boring. To see life is boring and has no meaning is intelligence. I would go as far as to say only fools don't realize that life is boring and go on distracting themselves endlessly.

We have never lived with ourselves, we have continuously distracted ourselves with work and alcohol on weekends. When we see the futility of life, we start to get bored, and that boredom can manifest to anxiety and depression.

You need to learn to live with boredom. As much as you can. Some people call it meditation, some call if mindfulness but it doesn't matter what you call it. You need to learn to live with boredom because nature intended that way. Work is not absolute reality, games are not absolute reality, they were created by thoughts of people like you and me. What is real is the futility of life, and to embrace that you need to embrace the boredom, or the present.

If you are interested, I can tell/help you more, but my comment will get hidden somewhere down below. Still, reply to me, if you want some guidelines, because I smoked weed like you and drank and i am in IT too and now I have quit intoxication and learned to live with myself.


I don't think life is _necessarily_ boring as you claim. It's just that a lot about life is boring, particularly working at a job you don't intrinsically enjoy as well as things like commuting, preparing/waiting for food, etc.

But a best friend? A delicious meal? Making love? Learning something you want to know about? I could go on.

If you're bored, it's because your life is structured to not contain any of the things that make you feel alive, or you are a boring person.


I thought his point was valuable, but you're right - life is certainly not all boring.

But it's important to be able to dwell in boredom, or "less exciting" things.

I think it's fundamentally about purpose. If you know that your work allows you to do the things you love, and you can find any joy in it, then it's possible to be content with the trade.

If you can't find joy in the job: you have some soul searching to do. Is it that the job just sucks? (they're out there) Or are you having trouble enjoying life generally? It sounds like it's more of the latter. If so, the job isn't the problem and a new one won't be the solution.

When I've felt like that, what's helped is to change my environment. Really seek out things I feel driven to do (hobbies, new sports, exploration, etc). Learn new things, meet new people. Take some vacation. Quit seeking cheap gratification and invest in myself in ways I feel good about (working out, being active, helping people, meditating/etc). Be honest about your situation, is there something secretly driving you nuts that you could fix but are avoiding awareness of?

And doing drugs, binging on shows, video games - these will sap you of your own internal reservoir of drive, and probably make you feel bad right after you've done it. Kind of like junk food for the mind.

In the interium, I'd say forget about the video game (and don't shame yourself on that) and just pick very small things to play with intellectually. The goal should be something modest and achievable that you're genuinely driven towards. Do something small achievable that you'll feel good about, and just do it. Do this a few times, and congratulate yourself on the achievement (focus on the benefit of the learning or effort). Make this a pattern, and you'll start to dig out of the hole.


This is actually very important. Learning how to live with yourself, your thoughts, and to cultivate contentment in the presence of (sometimes deep) boredom is hugely important.

Boredom is absolutely central to motivation and imagination. Our culture generally treats it as something to be avoided at all costs. And modern tech companies mine your attention for clicks and $$, they don't care about you, and they foster a world that's antithetical to quiet alone (boring) time.

Seeing your actions (watching Seinfeld, playing games) in the context of your motivation system is valuable. Andrew Huberman talks a lot about this, and ways to bootstrap getting out of a motivation hole (like it sounds the OP is in).


At one time, I learnt to live with boredom. I felt it was refreshing to not keep doing something to get rid of that boredom. It got me somewhat creative also, which i loved.

But when i started hating what i do with my work, I started feeling like the remaining time apart from work is way too important to "waste" on just being bored.

I slightly understand what OP means, when he says all things he held quite close like games and creating a game, were now not as interesting as it used to be. I am also going through that. I end up playing games and doing something out of compulsion of "not wasting the precious free time", and end up getting bored of them too. I dont know if it is exactly the problem OP is facing though.

Your first paragraph doesnt even apply to me. I am very much in the beginning stages of my pursuit for wealth and the journey looks like it will be mindnumbingly boring, and I am terrified where I am going to end up in this way.


One thing you left out is your personal life. Are you seeing anyone or have a group of close friends? From my experience, professional stuff can only take you so far. It's enough to get you through you early/mid 20s but by the time you approach 30, its woefully inadequate to provide meaning to your life. The most meaningful things in my life revolve around my significant other and family. I don't there is any job, project or hobby you can pick up to life you from your rut. But I think taking a personal inventory of your meaningful relationships in life would be a first step to getting to a better place. Then figure out where you want to be and how to get there.


>> The most meaningful things in my life revolve around my significant other and family.

Im happy that this works for You but Im not sure that this is universally good way out of existancial dredd.

I would rather prefer people founding meaning first in themselves and their existance and only then add others to this equesion. Otherwise there is a risk of getting a lot of depressed people that play pretend together (speaking from experience unfortunately)


1. Leave your apartment/house. Don't think about work, programming, anything. Just leave your house, go outside, go for a walk, maybe a restaurant, meet people, do things.

2. Stop smoking weed. At least stop smoming regularly and during the day.

3. Think about taking a vacation.

You need to shake things up. You need to just live life. Some outside stimulus will help invigorate you, might even help with creativity. At least you know you're in a rut, the way to get out is to sharply steer away from it.

As for ADHD, in my experience, people who are diagnosed as such do well doing many different tasks and having lots of stimuli. They get bored doing one thing. So do many things.

Anyhow, the way to get out of a rut is to do completely different things.

Edit - I also missed some of the question, how did I get out of my rut?

I'm old enough to have been in a few so have been there. And the advice above is more or less what I did.

- I took a long vacation in Europe (I'm Canadian) where nothing was planned so everyday was an adventure.

- I left a toxic relationship and didn't date while trying to work on my own problems

- I eventually moved to a mountain town.

- I make sure to make time for being outdoors, physical exercise plus coding side projects and work. It sounds like a lot but it's easier to do many things when you're motivated than to even just get out of bed when you're stuck in a rut. The more things I plan in a day the more things I accomplish.

Not going to say everything in my life is 100% but I'm accomplishing personal goals and am happy, if nothing else. Have a (non-toxic) partner and we're expecting a baby any day now, making good money, there's progress on a side business I've been thinking about doing and even though I'm busy I'm not stressed or burnt out.


I've been there. I was staying up way too late and when I did sleep I'd be laying in bed for hours before I finally dozed off. I had things I wanted to do, but since I didn't have the energy to do them I started feeling worse, which left me with less energy. You're describing a classic cycle of ADHD depression.

I fixed mine by jolting myself out of my routine. I went back to school. I suddenly had a whole new batch of problems and dealing with new problems that felt immediate was what I needed.

For you, based on what I know now (I'm in my 40s), I have some advice:

- put the coding project down for now. Don't make that the thing you ought to be doing. Put your notebooks in a box and the code in an archived folder.

- get outside. Go for walks. Find a hiking trail. Listen to some podcasts. Walk at least a mile every day. Use that as thinking/meditation time

- stop getting high. The best way I've heard it said was from someone in my support group: "getting high makes you ok with being bored." That's killing a lot of your motivation.

- Work very hard on getting good sleep. This is the hardest and I never really figured it out until my late 30s, but good sleep will fix most of your issues. Unfortunately, getting good sleep is difficult. You need to mentally and physically exhaust yourself daily, and it sounds like you're doing neither. Start by trying to physically exhaust yourself, whether it's the gym or something else. Expand from there.

If you'd like more help, feel free to DM me. I've been where you are, and it sucks. You can find contact info in my bio. Good luck!


The biggest, most helpful shift in perspective that ever happened to me was this: external circumstances are generally downstream from your inner life, rather than upstream. You don't feel crappy and unmotivated because of how work/productivity/side projects are going. Rather, the state of your professional life is a reflection of your psyche at this point in time.

As a result, I wouldn't overthink the details of work/side game etc. right now. You need to understand and treat the underlying psychological problem that's making it hard to function. None of us can really speculate about that, so I'd recommend finding a therapist and/or psychiatrist you feel you can trust. Start thinking about what's happening to you in terms of symptoms and feelings, rather than to do lists and motivation. This is not something you're doing because you're weak or lazy, it's something that's happening to you, either because of your early life or because of your brain. The more pressure you put on yourself to "get out of a rut" through determination or reconfiguring your professional life, the deeper the rut will get.

Good luck! I hope you get the care you need soon, and that you can feel better. Once you do, the rest of life will sort itself out with no trouble.


> Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.

Yeah, ditto but having been through these ruts many times in the past I can offer some advice

ADHD makes you incapable of settling into easy

You have work to do but it's easy. You have a side project but you've figured out the hard parts and so it's just the implementation grind, which is easy.

Find a challenge

switch your side project to a whole new tech stack. find a new job that you're not quite qualified for. take on job responsibilities at your job that you don't know how to do. mentor someone.

I also find going to meetups and conferences gets the spark back sometimes


> You have a side project but you've figured out the hard parts and so it's just the implementation grind, which is easy.

I found a stupid mind trick for that. If I can't do it, then it isn't easy. I kind of found a satisfaction now in doing boring stuff, feels a bit like a super power. I find it useful at work as well - if there are very boring tasks to do I take them. Team loves me for that and these usually are so "easy" that I have more time to "procrastinate" and e.g. do my own projects as well.

Also about figuring the hard parts - when I start I get hyper focused on these and often I won't stop until I figure something out, that means working even 16 hours a day - which is not healthy! That's why I rather avoid it at work...


So just to clarify your mind hack is turning it back on itself?

Since you can't finish easy tasks, that becomes the challenge, therefore you make yourself finish it and it becomes interesting again because suddenly what was 'easy' in your mind you made yourself realise that it only counts if you finish it and you usually don't so the challenge is to be someone that finishes that stuff?


Sounds about right!


> ADHD makes you incapable of settling into easy

> You have work to do but it's easy. You have a side project but you've figured out the hard parts and so it's just the implementation grind, which is easy.

Oh no. That describes me to a T.

Is there a differential diagnosis for this kind of behavior?


Keep in mind that ADHD is most likely a combination of a number of different factors that'll lead to a diagnosis. Many people exhibit one to even a couple of the factors, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have ADHD.

But if you look up some of the checklists or videos for "do I have ADHD" and seem to fit the bill of quite a few of the factors, it's worth talking to a therapist or psychiatrist who specializes in diagnosing it. There are many people who slip through the cracks in childhood, a lot of times because schools and docs are looking for the Hyperactive side, but many times the Inattentive side gets dismissed by a number of different excuses.

And as others mentioned, if you are diagnosed with it, that doesn't necessarily mean drugs or even therapy, but it can mean a better understanding of things you might struggle with and the reasons for that, which can better prepare you for coming up with healthy strategies rather than negative/unhealthy ones.


A PsyD can assess your focus level using a few diagnostics and if you don’t have other problems that better explain your focus deficit (e.g. PTSD or depression) you will be diagnosed with ADHD.

Talk to your doctor about it. If you can get in with the PsyD the process is pretty easy and non-painful.

The hard part is adapting how you approach the world once you know that you have ADHD, but it’s absolutely worth it.


Also, realistically, having ADHD doesn’t mean you need to start taking meds or changing your life or something. Think of the word “ADHD” as recognizing that theres a class of people who fit these labels, are often predisposed to these issues, and can sometimes be helped by these solutions - it’s only a disorder if it causes problems in your life :)


I'd probably argue that the word disorder applies regardless of whether it causes problems, because ADHD is (as far as we know with current knowledge) pointing toward an actual issue in brain chemistry (compared to non-ADHD), and it's ok to acknowledge that.

That isn't to say people have to use meds/etc. to cope though, I totally agree with the rest of your statement. I just don't think we should imply that the word disorder must be a negative thing. I look at it as purely descriptive.


I'm kinda climbing out of one as well. One thing sounds strangely esoteric, but I've found it very useful for my creativity to just take breaks from the constant input barrage the internet can offer. It feels like those beat down the much more silent voices of motivation and creativity for me.

I've found the most creativity just hanging out in a hammock on my balcony looking at the sky for an hour. Maybe softly listening to some music I like. Or just sitting near one of the rivers, or in a park for an hour watching some squirrels or a bunch of bumblebees. Just don't do anything and be with nature. This does get somewhat boring for a minute and there's some craving for consuming for more stuff on the internet, but shortly afterwards, my brain starts to think creatively about stuff.

The last time, it led to some realizations about better and stronger character building in my novels, and created a number of really good characters and how to continue there. Or an idea of what I could build in Cities Skylines, or Minecraft, and suddenly there is some motivation to play these games, instead of just mindless bumbling through them. And sure, maybe I've been thinking about one character now for a week, and that feels slow, but it's good progress.

And on the other part, I'm looking to change the understanding of my anxiety as a superpower in preparation and contingency, and started to throw myself into a bunch of activities that have nothing to do with work. First a metal festival, a concert 1-2 weeks ago. It's quite incredible how just these two things have lifted by baseline mood, which makes it a lot easier to do other things good for me instead of moping them away.


You should invest in yourself and talk to a therapist. A therapist is like having an expert on your side. You probably hire a mechanic to work on your car so why not hire a therapist to work (with you) on your mind?

Good luck!


If this is a possibility, try to take some time off and focus on the very basics of life. As intellectual people we tend to skip over the basics since our minds are elsewhere thinking about something “important”. As it turns out, to live an effective life you have to spend time thinking about very mundane, real-world chore-like things. This was very hard for me to really internalize. I ended up quitting my first job out of college due to mental health decline, but also due to the fact that I couldn’t honestly take care of myself. I was at a top tech company, I could hold intelligent conversation, but there was so much I skipped over (out of necessity really).

Now I’m rebuilding myself from the ground up. The basics: structuring my day, eating regularly, even things like grooming myself and of course exercise (though I’ve been slacking). Really it feels great to finally be able to be “dumb” for a while. I’m not coding intensively though I’m keeping up with the field and dabbling here and there. Otherwise I’m trying to live as if I weren’t smart. It’s very liberating but hard at first to dedicate yourself to your actual self and not your work.

Like others said, definitely cut out the dopamine hits (weed, passive TV) if you can. Maybe try the fabled dopamine detox.

Whatever you do, you’re not alone! I’ve got buddies in other fields in similar positions. Like a great burn out from tech and all this instant gratification. Good luck!


I left a large tech company with the dream of building a startup. I failed and am back doing consulting work and figuring out my next step. After realizing I'd failed, I fell in a deep rut.

You can get out of it.

Small steps is what worked for me. Just one win every day, or a working piece of code, or an admin task I'd been putting off before. It rebuilds your confidence that you can achieve things, and each little thing lifts your mood.

Also, the obvious things baked into our culture work. Being outdoors, especially in the sunshine, added to a healthy amount of exercise every day, even just a walk, helped me significantly. A healthier diet and taking supplements especialy B group vitamins had a big effect for me.

Also I cut out weed and smoking. For me, it sapped my motivation not just when I was high, but for days afterwards.

Good luck friend!


> I left a large tech company with the dream of building a startup. I failed and am back doing consulting work and figuring out my next step. After realizing I'd failed, I fell in a deep rut.

Same. A verrrrry deep rut.

Taking a complex job in big tech again let me flex my only partially atrophied dev muscles back to full strength. The narrow focus (entrepreneurship is sooo ambigious) and steady stream of hard work let me rebuild my confidence.

Not completely out of the rut, but after struggling for months post-failure, I would still be in that rut (or worse) if not for a steady job. Religion might have helped too, but I'm not the type unfortunately.


Similar situation at a similar age. Things I tried that didn't help: start my own company, start a company with some colleagues, relocated to an adjoining but still relatively close city, bar hopping (this was pre-COVID), two different jobs that promised a lot but never delivered, finished my degree, and bought a bunch of unnecessary toys (high end gaming PCs, televisions, the newest smartphone, etc). Things I tried that definitely helped: got married to a wonderful woman that shares my values and had kids, found employment with a company that puts its employees first and that makes the best product in their industry, found friends that wanted to be around me for me and not just because I would buy them drinks, started going to church, bought a home that I fixed up and made my own, and my hobbies now all revolve around building things and not idle amusement.

This was over a fifteen-ish year period, so a lot of the things that helped and the things that didn't had some significant overlap time-wise. Therefore looking back on it I'm bucketing things according to what was a waste of time and what wasn't. Now I'm in my early 40s and for the first time in my life content and comfortable.

Just sharing what worked for me. YMMV.


First of all: I know this feeling really well. Get help from a professional when you have no family/friends you can talk to.

Second. You are not happy with your job. Fair enough. But that’s a common problem with young people. You don’t need to be happy with your job. You don’t need like your job. You likely not find a job which makes you happy. That’s a dream you get told every day by social media and ads which is just not true.

Third, your game: I just quit my job and tried for one year to a write just a game. I had a lot of time. My initial motivation was great. I thought to myself. I want to make a great game… But then. It all repeatet and I lost control about my life and how I want to live it. It’s like a deep hole. I’m also not depressed in the “classic” way you see on television. It’s more like you don’t see a perspective. A goal. Because every day you hear: YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. FIND YOUR DREAM JOB. And think: why are all so happy with there jobs.

I accepted that your job doesn’t need to make you happy. It’s ok to just earn money. It’s ok not to have this one idea that everybody loves. That’s not how the world works.

I work now 40hours as employee, 30 hours self employed and Ifound my goal: get money. Money to invest in something you love or invest in your hobby. Save it for later to build up your own company. Or what ever.

I was finally seeing when I found my love and my child spawned in our world.

I work harder then ever and hope someday we have enough money to retire without fearing to get poor.

Of course everybody sees this differently and have different experiences.

And the last: Be honest with your self and don’t lie to yourself. And be yourself. Get sober. No drugs. ADHD is not reason to be unhappy.


What if you followed your gut? Quit your job, stop working on your game, quit smoking cannabis and being lazy. If nothing in your lifestyle brings you joy, get a new lifestyle. There will be a period of initial listlessness, but it sounds like it can’t get much worse anyway!

I think everyone with a good life goes through this. You’ve got everything you’d need but there’s still some itch left to scratch. My advice would be to close this chapter of your life and start the long journey of finding out what really makes you tick.


> quit ... being lazy

Can be quiet toxic advice for people with ADHD.


> Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how

I was going to suggest it but you already know it.

I’m in the exact same spot as you and I I have yet to find solutions.

Anyway the first step you must take is to seek for professional help.


Are you medicated? I've been getting out of my rut since I got diagnosed. I'm finally excited for the future, and optimistic.


Yes and no. I tried methylphenidate multiple times the last years but I have a hard time tolerating side effects at useful doses.


Try something else? I'm on lisdexamfetamine and I have no side effects whatsoever. I'm also a lightweight compared to my size so small doses work really good for me.

My average day was a 4/10 before, now it's a 7/10. It's been game changing.


I'll try to talk about it to my doctor.


The solution is to get medicated with the right medicine for you if you truely have adhd


Medication helps, but it doesn’t cure ADHD on the spot, you know.


Medication doesn't cure ADHD like glasses don't cure your shortsightedness. Still doesn't make them useless.


I wear glasses, have ADHD, and take ADHD medication. Glasses make me see perfectly well. Medication, sadly, restores about 40% of my executive activity, I still can’t do many things that come effortlessly to a normal person (thankfully, I also can do some things that are usually difficult for neurotypical people, and the medication doesn’t make it worse).


I don't know. I would have a hard time determining how much executive ability I lack.

When medicated I just find I am myself, but doing things. I couldn't tell you if it's 40% or what, just that I imagine I am like most people now. Doing, slowly moving towards my goals, without being a soulless hyperproductive machine. There's times I have to force myself to do something boring, like everybody else does, but I can still take them to completion. I think this is a healthy balance, yet much better than my previous state of complete and total inertia and infinite self-loathing.


I feel similarly. The only reason I program anymore is because I'm being paid relatively well for sometimes 2-3 hours of work a day. My friends who are pharmacists cannot comprehend that I make more than them, while it seems I'm living carefree and have much more time than them.

However, when the app I created halts, the thousands of dollars will add up quickly, while hundreds of employees are on the clock and no product is moving.

I have many projects on paper that I think can have positive impact on hundreds of people but the drive isn't there anymore.

I'm hoping to ignore my emotions and try to just develop something, I think if it gained traction I might get that spark back but I will probably find reasons to be unhappy about it.

Now that I typed this, it seems like its a mix of pessimism, depression and my somewhat validated negative view of the current society.


>validated negative view of the current society

can relate, especially about things out of my control e.g. banking system and monetary policy


> In a nutshell, I'm dissatisfied with how my life is going.

> Things that used to bring me joy...don't, any more.

Some people will say "it's depression", but I think we change, and some old things no longer bring joy, while some new things do.

Hae you tried adding randomization? As in, try some weird stuff (say kayak or whatever) to see what brings you unexpected joy?

It may not work for you, but it often works for me so you may want to give it a try? Serendipity, chance and a free spirit mix well.


I heard that was a novel where a guy made life choices on a roll of a dice.

I loved that idea. Obviously, the book took it to an extreme but really what is life anyway, isn't it all just chaos and a lot of seemly random events? New pretend we have control and in some cases, it's this that actually makes us miserable.

I'm curious since you recommended it to OP, how you apply this in your own life and if you have some examples of things you have discovered.


> [We] pretend we have control and in some cases, it's this that actually makes us miserable.

Totally! I follow the dice method myself, with some twist: for daily repeated decision. I complement it with a rank ordered list of my preferences, where sometimes I simply invert the list.

So if there are 10 options, I would usually choose the 1st one (ex: my favorite drink) but sometimes I chose the last one (here, my least favorite drink). The dice says when I do that, with a minimal frequence of 1/6th for a regular D6.

> I'm curious since you recommended it to OP, how you apply this in your own life and if you have some examples of things you have discovered.

I have discovered I don't really have food preferences, and that what other human beings think taste good will taste good (even if not to my taste YET) at least after a small exposure period.

The most interesting discoveries (ex: meat: now I like it almost raw!) have been made through this funny algorithm.


> Hae you tried adding randomization? As in, try some weird stuff (say kayak or whatever) to see what brings you unexpected joy?

Haha, I’m in the same spot as OP and I recently bought a kayak. It’s hard to find free time to go to the river but it’s true that I’m really enjoying it. It’s a great activity because you can choose where you put the cursor between sport and relaxing. From trying to go as fast as you can to totally lie down alone in the boat.

Not saying it would change anything for you OP, but the enjoyment is real.


1) Think about getting a new job. If your current job isn't bringing you satisfaction, find another. There are many other there and you can get one that is better than your current job. Don't doubt yourself - you can do it.

2) It's ok to not work on a game on the side. Do you have a clear vision for it? does that vision excite you? if no, either work on the vision, or find a vision that does. Or do something else entirely - maybe that's not the right side project for you.

3) What do you do for fun? I'd recommend not doing things like playing video games or watching tv too much - as relaxing as it can be, its ultimately not productive use of time. Is there a skill you can teach yourself? I've been doing drawing/painting, and amateur music production. I suck at both still, but I'm getting better, and making progress feels good.

4) How are your relationships in life? How are your finances? It might be that your negative feelings aren't due to work, or your video game, or seinfeld reruns - those might be a side effect of the real things impacting your mood and behaviour.

5) cut back on the weed for a while nad see how you feel. the weed is a coping mechanism - when it becomes whata you look forward to, it becomes problematic. take 2-4 weeks break. find a way to exist without being high and still emotionally stable. After a month you might find you dont really miss it.


weed, adhd meds, you are scrambling and desensitizing the already compromised executive function center of your brain.

you essentially need to do a dopamine detox and start back from ground zero.

for weaning yourself off THC my strategy is to buy high-end CBD flower (online mail order in the US) and then taper my usage. At this point I am consuming about 1g of CBD flower every morning and loving it. Some vendors I like are holy city farms, beleafer and flow gardens.


> …, adhd meds, you are scrambling and desensitizing the already compromised executive function center of your brain.

Any references to prove or substantiate this? I’m specifically interested in the claim about adhd meds


Most references will state the opposite, that in general ADHD meds, used for people who actually do have an imbalance, do not tend toward desensitization over time. I'd find a doc you trust to get that answer.


any psych will tell you this. stimulants lose their effectiveness over time. your brain adapts, more is required. pretty soon you cannot function without it. breaks are important, as-is using them as a single tool in a complete toolbox of strategies. it is not a magic bullet, although anyone who has been on it a month or two will lead you to believe that it is.


I’m in a very similar situation to the original poster. My ADHD is strong I refuse to take meds for it after a bad experience. I have a doctorate level degree but early on in my career got sidetracked and now make more money in database management than I ever would have if I used my degree. However, my job is boring and meaningless. It is also easy enough that it is fine to be a little buzzed from weed the previous day. I quit on and off and try to take breaks but have never been free from it for over a year. My last return to use helped me confirm that weed really isn’t that exciting or useful for me.

My most recent successful quitting cold turkey was the result of a mis-dose of RSO oil. I took way too much and blasted off to the cosmos. I realized the only way out of the “trip” was to work on what I needed to change about my habits. During my session I made a list of changes I wanted to make in life and decided (or rather was told by the universe) that I needed a break from weed and everything else could wait. I woke up the next day and threw everything out related to mj use with the exception of a 10 mg edible in case I had any sort of withdrawal. After a couple days with no withdrawal symptoms I threw that out.

A month in and I can say there is SO much to look forward to after cutting out weed. The dreams alone are worth it. I had a single dream last week that seemed like a gift from the universe. It’s too subjective to share but it altered the way I react to and perceive any anxiety-inducing stimuli.

I still have so much to work on but it all seems manageable after this one win.

TLDR; Try to focus on one single thing you want/need to change the most and don’t let anything else overwhelm you. You need a win right now. The rest can wait.


Agree with half of this. Speaking from experience the weed is toxic. The (correct for you) adhd meds are crucial but make sure you can take a break for a day weekly.


trips me out the number of folks who will call something like weed toxic but then pop a 30mg adderall xr every single day for years like its no problem


I’m not a fan of adderall I find it harsh and pushy.

Stimulants seem to be the clear path to restoring balance. It is after all the most effective treatment.

Weed is toxic in a “bad habit that scrambles what little executive function we have” way. Absolute devil drug and more addictive than methamphetamine for those with adhd IMO.


toxic from a relationship standpoint I can totally agree


I'm pretty sure the expectation is that people will have the "is this working for me" conversation with their doctor or psychologist or whatever, when it comes to prescribed medications.

Weed probably has fewer side-effects than adderall, but the person selling it doesn't have any obligation to take your well-being into account. So there's more of a reason for random internet strangers to point out the obvious.


The first step of getting out of a rut is knowing that you are in a rut, so you're already half way there.

When this happens to me I delete Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Podcasts etc. from my phone and spend more time talking to real people, reading books or just doing jobs around the home.

That may give you the mind space to slow down and consider your next actions and find something meaningful for your life.


> All I really look forward to these days is getting high and playing video games or watching Seinfeld reruns each weekend.

I'm not a therapist, but getting high might be interfering with your enjoyment of other things, since it increases your serotonin and dopamine levels to a point where enjoying other less rewarding activities (in comparison) can be challenging.


https://jawwad.me/book-summary-designing-your-life-by-dave-e...

Honestly the best thing I think anyone can do in your position is to:

- Work on improving yourself everyday.

- Read about new ways to do just that.

- Find your purpose along the way.

Here's a few blogs I've written that may help you:

https://jondouglas.dev/thoughts-on-struggling-through-finish...

https://jondouglas.dev/how-i-stop-myself-from-giving-up/

https://jondouglas.dev/act-immediately-on-impulses/


Alternatively:

-Be happy with who you are and where you're at

-Read things that give you pleasure

-Accept that there's no purpose, and just enjoy the time you have

:)


I don't think many people can accept the third bullet without trying to improve their lives in the first place and coming across that type of material / philosophy.

I definitely agree it's an end state for those like you who have reached it.

(speaking on my behalf as it took me many years to get to a similar point)


A lot of good advice here; I'll throw in my 2c.

What do you actually care about in life? Is it people? Ideas? Circumstances or something you can give yourself? If you can find just a tiny seed of caring about something outside of yourself, bigger than yourself, something that goes beyond basic pleasures, cultivate that, and it can lead to much greater happiness.

Speaking of pleasure and happiness, these two things are not the same. There's a book called The Hacking of the American Mind which really helped me understand this. Essentially, we have been conditioned to confuse pleasure with happiness. Pleasure is fleeting, a feeling we get from good food, or sex, or drugs, or video games; or, confusingly, from realizing that we are happy. Happiness is a deeper and longer-term circumstance. Replace "pleasure" and "happiness" with whatever words work for you.

Others have mentioned the importance of human connection. +1 to that. +1 to therapy as well.

I'll mention about the weed. Others are suggesting you detox / go cold turkey. This could work, or you could enter into a cycle where you stop and start again and just throw your emotions into greater chaos. Most likely, you are using the weed to self-treat depression/anxiety. Unfortunately, it does became habit forming, as much as pro-weed folks want to think it doesn't. So it's probably now causing some depression/anxiety which will get worse if you stop. What I recommend, from experience, is to start to play a game of finding the smallest dose that still works for what you're using it for. Try skipping a whole day once a week, then every few days, etc. and pay attention to how you feel on days you use and days you don't use, as well as the days after. I bet you'll feel great after a week of no using. It may also help to use and don't do anything else, just sit and be high, and perceive what it is about being high that you actually enjoy.

Best fortunes to you on your journey.


One thing that's basically true is you can't diagnose yourself. Like most of the posters, I recommend therapy. And therapy isn't instant. I'll attest that it sometimes takes a while to figure out what the underlying issues might be. Until you do the work to uncover that, all the stuff about aphorisms and 'find your passion' won't really work.

I was never able to figure it out by myself. Maybe because it's painful to think about and your brain is short circuiting that line of thought. If you're drinking, especially binge drinking, stop or at least cut way back. Lay off the weed. Get off social media and stop comparing yourself to others. It works by manipulating your emotions. Plus, all these things can be crutches that keep you from getting to what's really wrong.


1. The first thing that has really helped me out at work is sometime in the morning I message my boss something I am going to work on today, and at the end of the day send an update of how it went. That little bit of accountability gives me the motivation to do things where normally I'd think "I'll do it tomorrow", instead I end up doing something(s) every day.

2. If I'm having trouble getting myself to start on something: One thing I actually do when I need to make myself do something is in writing, break down the task into the first step, break that down into the first substep or prerequisite if needed, etc. until it's something I can do now, and writing things down as I work on them (sort of in an outline fashion). After a while I forget to update the list because I am finally deeply involved in working on the thing. But at the beginning the steps could be as small as "turn on computer."

3. I don't actually do this but it's probably a good idea. Pleasure prediction sheet. Take one of your thoughts (your post is a good source of thoughts you're currently thinking), like "I can't get excited about the tedious parts of my work, and I can't even get excited about _automating and eliminating_ the tedious parts of my work."

Make 3 columns. Put some things you would do, either tedious or working on the automation. Second column, put a percentage from 0-100% of predicting satisfaction for doing it. Try doing them, then put actual satisfaction from 0-100%. Some that you think might be high could be low, and some that you think will be low could actually be high. It helps test your original thought. It could be for other things, like working on your game, playing the game that's coming out. There is also a version with another column for who you're doing the activity with (if any). https://feelinggood.libsyn.com/074-five-simple-ways-to-boost...


I hate to sound like one of those podcast bros who thinks psychedelics are a quick fix for all ills. But anyway here's a thing:

I did an ayahuasca ceremony during a rut I had a few years back. I didn't see the face of God or anything. But I got a clear insight that all I really wanted to do was teach and write, and that my coding work was ideally in service of those first two goals. I definitely attribute the rut-breaking to this.

If it helps give context, I also have ADHD, and it plays a big role in my routines, productivity practices, and how I maintain my mental health. I am also religious about sleep, meditation, diet, exercise, and waking early (all of which help manage the ADHD). So, as others have pointed out, one should make sure those boxes are checked before experimenting with sources of epiphany.


I see a rut as an ebb in this life, but it's important to ride it even though the way you ride it will be different than normal. It's also important to note that tons of folks feel this way because it seems like we're all just hoping for some precedented times...

Small changes in a few different areas, and at the same time, could spark something. New routine (sleep/wake time), a t-break (stepping away for a few weeks always helps me), a new hobby (a bike and some time to ride it), and even something as menial as cooking yourself a few meals can drive some fulfillment. Hopefully it can spark some creativity elsewhere like your game and your job. If anything, it will create a fun sort of experiment that you can move through and pick up small wins.


You sound like someone who is looking for deeper meaning in life.

Not knowing what inspires you or motivates you, maybe you'd be better exploring your sense of purpose, what rewards you in the long run, what gives meaning to your life.

You are apparently too set to care about your job as a sustenance and distractions don't seem to entertain you. I would say connect with something bigger like travel Nature, people with problems bigger than yours, memento mori or whatever makes sense to you.

Looking back, in my case what helped was working with the homeless, and later as a volunteer trained in psychology with the sick and eldery. They helped me more than I helped them I feel.

But that's me you'll to figure out what's your thing.


    New York. [...] easier for me to find work as 
    a technical writer than as a software engineer
    [...] I started the job this past fall.
The job market was absolutely booming last fall, though?

I believe you, but it seems to me there is perhaps more to the story if you were unable to find a software dev job last fall.

    All I really look forward to these days is getting high
I think pot can be great, but maybe it's not working for you?

    Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, 
    but I haven't quite figured out how.
Fellow diagnosed ADHD guy here. It's always relevant. It permeates everything. It definitely makes every job more stressful, unless it's some kind of magical job that somehow indulges your ADHD.

    but I haven't touched [my game] in months. I'm not 
    even sure I want to continue it [...] this is coming 
    from someone who got into computer science _because_ 
    of video games.

    *if you've ever been in this kind of rut, what was 
    the nature of that rut and what did you do about it?*
Maybe you've moved on from video games. I think that's happening to me. It's hard to tell if it's anhedonia and/or moving on from games.

It's scary to think perhaps I've moved on from games because (like you) they are/were very integral to why I do this.

What about this: what if you give yourself permission to step away from your game project for N weeks/months?

    what did you do about it?
It's such a cliched and often glib answer, but exercise and/or spending time in nature are pretty much the only things guaranteed to make you feel X% better. The trick with the exercise bit is finding some form of exercise you enjoy.

Therapy can help. Not a magic solution either but I think it's a net positive. But it's hard to find a therapist you click with.

What about going back to software development?


I have a rut, too. I am not in the rut, because I promised myself a long time ago that I am not going to allow the environment[1] to dictate my state of being.

People like Jocko Willink put this much more eloquently with philosophies like Extreme Ownership (GOOD.), so maybe check that stuff out.

1. The environment being things happening around me. Note, I don't use the term "to" me, because I believe that's victim mentality, and in the grand scheme, challenges are happening to me because I messed up (didn't do something in time), or because they are happening in spite of me (acts of god, house burns down, etc)


Going to a therapist really helped me.

I want to add a +1 to all the people mentioning exercise. It does help. It can be as simple as going on a walk.

Some days when I clock out and I’m frustrated, I hit the elliptical for 30 minutes. I feel better afterward.

Another big one is sleep. It sounds simple, but sleep deprivation can have a serious multiplier effect with ADHD. Anecdotally, I notice a huge difference in my symptoms. Drugs and alcohol before bed do not help, as your body spends time in a sedated state processing the chemicals, and less time is actual, restorative sleep.

All that said, I’m not a doctor, do some research, we hope you get to feeling better <3.


Sounds like you've got legitimate depression- have you considered therapy?


> All I really look forward to these days is getting high and playing video games

Agreed with others say regarding dropping the drugs. South Park quote that's relevant here...

Randy: Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorism, but… well, son, pot makes you feel fine with being bored. And it's when you're bored that you should be learning some new skill or discovering some new science or being creative. If you smoke pot you may grow up to find out that you aren't good at anything.


Make some radical changes in your life to course correct. A lot of people where are giving you coping mechanisms, ie exercise, no drugs, etc. All good but the problem still exists; you hate doing what you are doing. Don't learn to deal with the current situation, or you will further erode your confidence to do something else.

Maybe you can get a job doing what you like, but even switching employers to do something you don't really care for will still be a step in the right direction. As you will exercise your change muscle.


Adding the millionth opinion for exercise. All my life I was like no, I'm fine, I'm in good shape and don't need to exercise, that isn't my problem. I was entirely is disbelief it would have any impact. However, it's become super obvious to me that it does make a huge impact for me.

Adderall is also a massive bonus to my well being and ability to do work, but it's not sustainable for me. I have to up the dose every couple months until I'm at the max dose, and at that point my heart feels like it's going to explode every day. And then quitting adderall is awful and takes forever to not feel super tired 24 7 (like half a year).

Ever since I turned 30, my approach to productivity has been this: If I find myself having trouble to encourage myself to do something, it's probably not actually that important to me. So I don't do it. I still keep the house clean, force myself to exercise, and other basic things. But I don't beat myself up over doing nothing, by not studying for some theoretical promotion it may bring me, or drinking or doing drugs (but no in excess). I accept that I will have passing interests in hobbies and then drop them after a month or so. I don't beat myself up over it - it was fun to try. Then I move on to whatever else I feel compelled to do, which often times is nothing.


Sounds like classic depression and burnout to me.

Sounds trite but I've found running outdoors to be quite therapeutic. Your brain kinda half shuts-down the conscious thought parts and you just get on with physically moving. You don't need to be going fast or anything, but just being out for 20/30/more mins feels quite relaxing. I find that running around/exploring new parts of town or forest or coast or something especially relaxing - everything is new so you are soaking it up rather than getting lost in your thoughts. I have some fond memories of running around suburban silicon valley when on tedious business trips, not because the scenery was so wow, just that it was novel to run over to Moffet Fields or be in downtown SF and run into the Pacific Ocean etc.

Tl:Dr - try outdoor physical exercise.

Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for


Maybe this has already been said, but managing ADHD is hard and it’s probably at the center of your issues. It makes your internal motivation much more emotion driven than others who are rational about why they start their work without ceremony.

What I have found helps _me_: journaling, meditation and exercise (in this order).

You have to work through your motivations and put meaning behind what you do yourself. I have found that I need pure emotional energy to start on work. In many situations, I figure that out by reminding myself why I have the job and what purpose it serves in life. I also make sure to remind myself that these problems are not insurmountable. The galvanize step comes from within, so you need to reason through your motivations and align yourself internally. All of this is helped by journaling for me.

I know it sounds cliché but it really helps me when I am motivated enough to actually do the journaling.

Meditation helps me with cultivating focus. Mindfulness practices in general train focus very well and do so in a low effort way. It’s sort of an automatic output of doing the mindfulness exercise.

Exercise I’ve found just makes me feel good about me and that helps a lot!

Best of luck and I hope all this helps.

Also, BIG SAME. I’m rooting for you!


First, practice gratitude. Yours are definitely first-world problems. "I can't get motivated" is a much better problem to have than "I can't get food/medicine/shelter" or "People are trying to kill me". Really meditate on what gratitude is. List the things in your life that you are thankful for. You feel "stuck", but you probably have roller skates on while standing on a paved road.

Second, you clearly want to believe in something and have something give you joy/meaning. But you can't just sit around and wait for something to pop into your life. You have to make meaning. You have to decide for yourself what will give you a reason to get up and go through drudgery. What do you want to do with your life? What would you like your purpose to be (at least for the next 20 years)? Where would you like to go? You could keep the same job but use it to achieve some larger purpose, or change jobs. Or not have a traditional job; it's a big world out there!

Third, consider that fear may be keeping you in that rut of mindless entertainment. Fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of missing out, fear of effort, fear of failure, fear of success even! You know you're not happy; so what will make you happy? Or what would you like to try that might make you happy? Or content, anyway? First decide on that, then build your courage, then go get it.

And remember that you also don't have to do anything interesting or fulfilling or exciting. You can just be a regular person with a regular job and regular friends and not seek anything. But do recognize the good things that you have and appreciate them.


Contrary to what others say, I went on a workout binge and it didn't help. I hit my PRs on DL (375 lb) and Squat (265 lb) at 155 lb. I did 55 Barry's in 60 days. I hung out with my friends more and developed my close friendships. I moved to Hawaii and swam in the ocean. I moved to a different city and worked my job. Nothing helped.

I hung out with a couple of my close friends. On the way back, one of them said "Dude, why are you living like this? Quit your job. You can do so much more."

Quit my job, found a new one. Got a few small wins under my belt. Worked up. Happiness and motivation arrived. Turns out I do consider my professional success a big part of identity. It is not sufficient, but it is essential. So I leaned into that and applied any rational success strategy to it: reset, get small wins, spin the flywheel up, then turbo.

My personal thesis is that it's about finding out what things you build into your identity. I am proud of being competent, capable, and risk-seeking. Whatever choices I have made in the past that built this identity, I don't want to change this identity. So, for my happiness, I just lean into it and aim to live up to these things I consider virtues.

Good luck.


I feel for you. Really. I've been down that rabbit hole; and it took me about 3-4 years to get back after crashing really hard with a resulting deep depression.

I wish I could give you some really good advice that would change your entire life in a heart beat. I didn't find any such solution though. For me it was about setting boundaries and finding out what was energy positive and what was energy negative in my life and start eliminating the negative stuff and amplifying the positive. My guess is this means different things for everyone.

You're probably not realising how much you let the external world control your inner world. I certainly wasn't.

Also don't feel bad for anything negative you have been letting into your life. Somewhere down the line later in life you will appreciate even those things about your past. I can say that with a bit of perspective I now understand it was inevitable for me to end up where I did and I would also not have learned the life lessons I learned and I would be in a much worse place now if I hadn't. Looking back, I wouldn't want to have missed the experience for anything. It made me better in so many ways.


I try to spend my time after work socializing with people - when I'm not motivated enough to spend time on my projects.

People give us meaning and good social feelings.


This is often true even for people who do not naturally gravitate towards other people. You can both benefit from social interaction and find it extremely challenging.


I'd recommend talking to a therapist about this possibly being depression. Also talk to a physician.

A lot of people get into a self defeating cycle of wanting to do X -> being unable to start X -> feeling bad about not being able to do X -> doing Y to feel better about not doing X. It's weird but the effort to try and motivate yourself to do something, even if you are unsuccessful, is still draining, and like someone trying to keep running after their muscles have given out, if you keep trying to push your mind when it is in need of real rest you're never going to get back up to full strength.

You need to break out of the cycle. Change up your habits. Stop getting high, stop playing videogames, stop working on your game, stop doing or trying to do anything that your mind knows how much dopamine you're going to get. Try doing some things you've never tried before, that you haven't even thought to try before. Change up your scenery a bit - start going to new restaurants and places. If financially possible, get an airbnb in another city for a little while. Your brain basically needs to relearn how to have a good time. Start out with extremely low commitment stuff so you don't get yourself down when you fail, and as time goes on you can take on more involved things.

Also, invest in your support network. Find someone who can give you the little extra push when you need it to start things, and hold you accountable when you don't meet your goals without being harsh. They should expose you to new things and help you avoid feelings of loneliness.

Finally, beyond just shaking things up, you may need to make some real life changes. Depression is our body's way of telling us that we are in need of deep introspection - something in your life is wrong but there isn't some simple pain receptor to activate. Perhaps the new job just isn't for you, maybe you are in need of a feeling of success in something important to you like game development, maybe it's something non-obvious like a health issue. In my case, I spent a decade constantly feeling mentally and physically exhausted and no amount of sleep or rest would rejuvenate me - turned out it was undiagnosed sleep apnea and I basically just hadn't gotten a proper night's sleep in years. While there are many things that can help cheer you up and accomplish your goals in spite of the depression, you won't be able to truly recover until you find and address the root cause.


I'd echo a few sentiments already listed. This sounds a lot like burnout. Therapy is probably one of the first things I'd recommend, but I'll also note that finding a therapist when you're struggling with your mental health is a really hard thing to do... so be patient with yourself. If you find a therapist and you're not vibing with what they're saying or it makes you feel worse, drop them.

I was going through burnout in 2021. Took medical leave from work which helped somewhat. I went to a therapist that recommended keeping a positivity journal which absolutely exhausted me to even think about. Dropped them and found someone closer aligned to a medical context (through the same company that provided a psychiatrist that I also sought for adhd treatment). It helped, a lot.

Email is in my account if you'd like to talk more about it. I've got some resources I could send your way.


What's always helped me is identifying what I want and creating a plan for getting / achieving it.

In that plan I identify the risks at play, and the mitigating actions I can take for those risks.

This process help me understand my feelings, gain perspective, get out of limbo and get myself back on 'offense'. I hope it can do the same for you.


Hi, all. Thanks for your responses. I'll reply to some of them individually, but I'll address some common themes here.

First, some extra information that I had forgotten to include earlier:

- I don't consume weed daily. Just once a week. (Granted, a lot of it.) Also, I don't smoke it, I use edibles.

- I am medicated for ADHD and anxiety. I currently take Ritalin and Zoloft.

- I do not go out of my way to irresponsibly combine these medications with anything (e.g. I don't grind it up and snort it). It's possible that having this combination in my body has worked against me in ways that went over my head.

- I don't drink or smoke.

- I am currently in a PIP at work. The PIP finishes at the end of this week, so it's entirely possible I'll be canned anyway. (Not that I'll take it lying down, but that's a separate Ask HN.)

- I'm single.

- I don't live alone. I live with my parents and brother. I've shown my parents this thread, and their advice is largely consistent with what we've read here.

- My current job is the first I've had since grad school (I finished with a Master's in computer science in December of 2018).

- Since graduation I've been working on my game full-time, at least until I started my current job.

- I have been eating more lately. I could stand to drop 15 pounds or so.

Now, here's what I'm gonna do in the near future:

- Abstain from marijuana, at least for the month of August. What I do after then will depend on how my mood changes.

- Coincidentally, this Thursday I'm seeing my doctor about adjusting my prescription. I might even switch to something else. (This was planned even before my thread this morning.)

- My employer's health benefits include a subscription to Talkspace, so I'll give that a try.

- I'm going to exercise more. I bought Ring Fit Adventure a few weeks ago, but now I'll integrate it into my morning routine more stringently. I've already got a week-long streak.

I'm still open to other ideas, though.

Separating my creative output (not necessarily from my day job) from my sense of self-worth will probably be necessary as well, although I don't have a plan for actually doing so.


I was feeling the same way in my late 20's. Sort of climbed all the hills I cared about climbing. I ended up getting married and having a kid.

For me, life would be really boring without children. It's more fun to watch her have fun than it is to have fun yourself, if that makes sense.


> It's more fun to watch her have fun than it is to have fun yourself, if that makes sense.

It's hard to explain this to people without kids (and definitely shouldn't be used to say "hey you should have kids to make yourself feel better!").

That being said, when we go to amusement parks, I can have a joyful day without ever riding a ride. Just watching my kids have fun is sufficient for me.


>For me, life would be really boring without children. It's more fun to watch her have fun than it is to have fun yourself, if that makes sense.

This is one of the reasons I'm very excited to have my first child (soon!) and reminds me of the pleasure of marriage.

By nature I'm never really satisfied with anything I do and am always pushing for "more". Marriage and hopefully children has made it so I can relax and not feel bad about wasting time and not pursuing the next step. I just need to care for my wife and my soon to be child. I've got a constant north star to help guide any decision I make and I always have a purpose


WE"RE ONLY HERE ONCE

WILL YOU PERISH LIKE A DOG?

OR WILL YOU STAND AGAINST DESTINY

AND FIGHT

NUT THE FUCK UP KID

LETS FUCKING GO

I say this with ironic humor, but also deliver a lot of truth in it. I used to have a pretty comfortable job, but I hated it and I was bored out of my mind. Existential dread every day. Find another job/endeavor that challenges you


> Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.

Definitely relevant but likely more a by product of your unhappiness. If you're being tasked to do things that aren't interesting you'll have every incentive to not pay attention.

As some one with severe ADHD I strongly recommend a high fat + high protein breakfast and limit the caffeine. For high fat I usually take fish oil. For high protein I usually eat eggs with cheese and grain bread. Also, no coffee after 11AM as it has a pretty long half life.

Get into a good sleep schedule, also. Sleep more then you need. Try to wake up at the same time every day.

Last bit: ADHD isn't a curse, it can be a blessing - you just need to manifest it right.


Everything needs care: be it relationships, mental health, and more over self care.

Have you thought about stimulating your brain? I'm sharing 9 activities here for you. Please pick whatever you like and also let me know what you end up picking, even if nothing. https://scitechdaily.com/9-ways-to-improve-brain-health/

Nothing wrong with working on video games. I've spent 5 years working on them. Maybe the gameplay is not longer interesting to you. Try to find another one. You've already given it a pause, maybe you might find it interesting again.


> Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.

Are you medicated for this? I got diagnosed with AHDH last year. The doctor I'm seeing specializes in ADHD and OCD and they have found in their experience that there are kind of two forms of ADHD. One is the hyper active part giving struggles to focus. The other is a motivation side of it where it's difficult to even get started on tasks. For me it was certainly the latter and the techniques + the medication I have now have really helped me feel productive and motivated again (inside of work and in my free time).

Would really suggest seeking help with the ADHD.


I don't think I have the motivation type ADHD but I do struggle to get motivated, especially after the initial excitement phase of a project. What I found worked for me was a particular set of songs, once I put that playlist on, within 5 minutes I'm in the zone. I don't ever listen to that playlist any other time.


You don't perhaps have a nutrient deficiency? In my case it was an iron deficiency that crept up on me and made me lethargic for months before I got checked out by a GP.

I think depending on your diet, low iron, protein, salt and/or B vitamins intake can exacerbate the lethargic/burnout/lack-of-motivation funk you're in. Also just being constantly dehydrated ain't great.

Of course being unhappy at work is a massive deal and will impact all other parts of your life as well - but others have made suggestions around finding a new job. I just wanted to make mention of the nutrients stuff as a CTRL + F brought nothing up.


Remote work has made me even more introverted than before and I'm actively searching for an in-office gig to help me muster the motivation to shower and dress. Perhaps you can relate.

Finding the right career path is hard and sucks but it is preferable to be doing this now as opposed to your 40's so count yourself somewhat lucky. There's always software development (an option most don't have).

When I feel uninspired by a song I'm writing, I shelve it and spend that time on one that does inspire me. I'll come back to it if the mood strikes me but never feel obliged. Maybe the side-project is like that.


There's nothing inherently wrong in disliking one's work. I could say that's why it's called "work", it's never meant to be a pleasure if it were you'd be paying instead of being paid. Consider yourself earning your wages; instead of cursing your lot be grateful for your just being employed. Could be worse.


I'm not sure if it works for everyone but you could try reading some books to gain perspective and get some motivation. Something like can't hurt me[1] is brutal and honest. It describes the life of a man that was incredibly depressed and stuck in a rut where he had lots of excuses and how he was able to turn it around and become awe inspiring.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Hurt-Me-Master-Your/dp/154451228...


Testosterone Replacement Therapy - but I'm a fair bit older than you. I'd try some strength training and eating some red meat.

It's amazing how seemingly disconnected things can change, well, everything.


Do things that give you energy rather than take it away.

Also motivation and inspiration are unreliable. They ebb and flow. Discipline is key. It precedes any action and will bring you closer to your goals.


(Self)Discipline isn't either. From one of self helping courses i learnt that you have to embrace your dopamine addicted inner monkey and make it do useful stuff. I.e. split things into smallest chunks and convince yourself that finishing each of those is rewarding.


I've been in a very similar situation to you, right down to many of the details. There are a ton of obvious suggestions, e.g. exercise, try to go outside everyday even for 5 mins, talk to friends more, focus on one side project at a time etc. but the problem wasn't the ideas for me. it was the motivation to do them. For that, the thing that helped above all was therapy and opening up more to my closest friends. I wish you all the best - things can change quicker than expected.


Something to consider which no one has mentioned yet is the remote aspect of your work. Remote work is not going to provide the socialization you may be in dire need of if your hobbies are weed, tv and video games. Office life has many cons but it does have a built in social scene and especially in your late 20s it's a great time to meet people.

Also like many other people are saying, drop the weed, it's just burying the real issues. Keep a clear head, and find a therapist.


1. find a professional, licensed psychotherapist to talk to. 2. stop getting high 3. if you can, move your desk / work area to a different place in your home.


If you do have enough financial means, or parents, etc that are understanding. Quit the job, and take a break. Sometimes you just need to cut the cord. Do some travel, exercise, yoga/meditation, meeting and hanging with people you love or doing hobbies you like or always wanted to explore. A lot of us get stuck into jobs we hate, even though we have the means and options to not keep doing it. Wishing you the best! You got this.


Everyone has a lot of jobs. We are parents, spouses/partners, employees, and friends. One job that people often ignore is that of self-care. It's another job and you sometimes have to treat it that way. What work do you perform with self-care? Things that feed the body and soul: Exercise, volunteering, travel, eating and sleeping well. Start thinking about how to actively take care of yourself and the rut will disappear.


What worked well for me was pretty simple: If I got too chuffed with what I completed, I'd meditate for 5-10 mins to ground myself, then look for the next task. If I got really distracted and found myself unable to keep my attention, meditation also helped with that. To keep things on-track, I recommend a meditation app or guided meditations on youtube so you aren't relying on your own burnt-out self-discipline.


Any specific mediation or just the normal close your eyes and breathe kind?

So your solution is meditation? Could you elaborate. When you are finding yourself struggling to keep attention? What do you do? Meditate and then return to the task?


Sound's like you just straight up don't like your job, so I'd say get the CV up to scratch and start looking elsewhere.

Also, working from home is not for everyone. It pains me to say it, but I can't work from home. All I do is have an existential crisis about my life and I want to be anywhere else doing anything else, the whole time. In the office, I just crack on.


While supporting all the individual tips here as well, trying to understand the underlying societal dynamics of mental issues can also create new perspectives, new motivation, and relieve.

For starters, I would recommend Mark Fisher's (RIP) work: http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/


I was in a similar position in my late 20s. I moved to Mexico on a random opportunity, ended up on a beach in Oaxaca, met so many people and was so happy that I realized that’s what I needed. Only moved away recently because I met a new girlfriend. Take a chance. You already work remotely. Go do something real. Playing vidya games will never get you there.


How I got out of my rut:

1. Moved across the country from Chicago, IL to Portland, OR

I don't know how people live in these massive cities with zero good nature to explore around them. Overcrowded, overpriced, overrated! What a miserable existence I lived! Now I go out and explore the Pacific Northwest which has a seemingly inexhaustible bounty of outdoor activities to do.

Additionally it made me realize my current friend group wasn't all that great. The people I met in Oregon are much more open to my artistic expression, novice as it is, and they in themselves are MUCH more accomplished artists than me.

Even with the houseless problem here, I have ZERO regrets.

2. I got organized.

I read two books:

- Deep Work

- Atomic Habits

"Deep Work" made me realize my basic methodology for getting shit done was broken. I need unbroken blocks of time to actually accomplish work. Which I express in my meetings with managers, and if I don't get that time, i make it clear why work doesn't get done.

Atomic Habits gave me a framework for how to actually get shit done. Instead of tracking "goals", which I have come to despise, I track time. It is less stressful, and is the real leading metric for achieving my goals anyway. Work + time = results.

3. I changed jobs

All jobs suck, but jobs that don't such TOO much are rare. I had 5 jobs in 3 years, and I have ZERO regrets moving on when something wasn't working. Businesses would eventually fail the "Clown Test" and i would start applying.

One thing I DO regret is quitting with nothing lined up. That was a brutal 6 months of searching.

4. I started listening to audio books when I run

Sometimes I still drag my feet in the morning before my run, but other times I am excited to continue the story i am listening to. Cut down massively on boredom!

This also feeds into the huge city thing: My route on my morning run is along a road with a massive sidewalk, alongside the Willamette river. When the sun is shining and reflecting off the river, it is a breathtaking view. So much more pleasant than the game of frogger I used to play in Chicago.

edit: actually, i want to add one more book to my list: "Laziness does not Exist"

You are allowed to take breaks when you are tired. Boredom at work is exhausting. You are not a robot, and if you don't have energy it needs to come from somewhere else.

Kinda sounds like your job sucks.


I'm 31. I used to get stoned daily in my early 20s, until I got a job with a clearance, and so have abstained for several years.

The two best (and most difficult) lifestyle changes I ever made in life were cutting out weed and pornography. I probably wouldn't have had the strength to give up pornography without giving up the weed.


Can I ask why you went for TW rather than dev? I ask because I almost used that as a cop-out once because I was overwhelmed by the technical interviews, etc. required for being a dev.

For me it was a way to stay comfy and avoid situations that would force me to grow.

Also, the last 2 years have been rough. Are you getting enough social connection?


> Can I ask why you went for TW rather than dev? I ask because I almost used that as a cop-out once because I was overwhelmed by the technical interviews, etc. required for being a dev.

Because they're the one that gave me the offer. I don't have any particular preference or disdain for technical writing; it's entirely possible that my next job will be as a developer.

> Also, the last 2 years have been rough. Are you getting enough social connection?

I could stand to get out more, yes.


Whenever I've found myself in a rut, doing something with my hands has been helpful in shaking me out of it! If you're in a big city consider googling around for "pottery classes" or "woodworking classes", or "sailing classes", or "jewlery making courses".


You might consider taking some time off. Start with whatever you can get, a three day weekend, a week, anything to get some time away from work.

Maybe drive or fly somewhere new? Meet some new people?

It probably took you months to feel this awful so it might take a few months of doing more enjoyable things to feel better again.


Check out healthygamergg. He's selling a product and also has a lot of filler. But u should be able to glean enough. Also the excercise as others have mentioned and check out what I've learned on youtube about meditation, mindfulness, porn, dopamine. And eat clean! Maybe pray


My therapy is Brazilian jiu-jitsu. It's basically active meditation. When someone is trying to choke you unconscious, you are not thinking about the past or future. It's not just exercise that makes you exhausted, you become an assassin. And it's very social!


Are you single? Find a significant other. Make it a priority in the same way that you made your career a priority up to this point. Ignore all of the "you should be happy alone first" self-help bullshit.

Humans need love like we need food. Being terminally alone sucks.


Here's the story of how I got out of my rut, maybe four or five years ago:

My friend was in a similar rut to yours, and I was in a slightly-different-but-equally-shitty place. We weren't particularly close, hadn't spoken for a long while, and he had moved to another country, but we certainly enjoyed each other's company.

One day, I got a message to hang-out on voice-chat to play some video games online. I never particularly got into the game we were playing, but we had a terrific time cracking jokes, and inevitably commiserating about some of the stuff we were dealing with at the time. That game night started into something regular; every week at least once a week for a while.

Another mutual acquaintance joined the group, and then some folk I didn't know. None of us in the same geographic location. All of us, without consciously doing so, found each other at a time where we really needed support. We'd play various games, all sorts of genres, some I had a blast playing, others less so. We didn't always unload heavy shit on one another, but we always felt free to. The games were great, but we mostly enjoyed shooting the shit.

4-5 years later, we're still gaming. Some months we only get one session in, other months we play most nights.

Since we started dating, my friend and I have had massive career changes and a lot of the issues we had are resolved. Writing that out feels like bad luck, but it's true :)

It could be that the companionship just helped making "waiting-out" the rut easier, but I like to think that we helped each other have the courage to tackle the things in life that we needed to.

I know my story is specific to me, but I think the general lessons I learned are:

1) I used to worry about reaching out to old friends, thinking our time had come and gone. If you're thinking about them, they may be thinking about you; give them a ring. If you were ever as close as you thought, you'll just start where you left off.

2) Regular hangs are important. Even quasi or semi-regular. Things happen over the week, small victories and defeats, that are so great to share. It's sometimes awkward to text or call someone to say "my chili plant that I grew from a seed made its first chilis!" or "the fucking vending machine ate my quarters >:(". It's way easier if you're all just chewing the fat to share that.

3) Among Us will result in arguments. Just don't bother, it's not even cool anymore


"I'm ostensibly working on a game on the side,"

Eh. Could you join a group making a game? Join a team that is doing a open source game? Making a game by yourself removes any feedback loops. You sound like you need more feedback loops.


My situation is not exactly the same, but I am feeling much the same way lately. Thank you to everyone on HN who gives sincere advice and words of support. I think there is a lot of good advice here.

Thank you for the post. Good luck my friend.


I second the commenter who said to drop the game.

> And this is coming from someone who got into computer science _because_ of video games.

Consider that you may not be the same person anymore and that different things are important to you now.

At the risk of losing precious karmas, try listening to Jordan Peterson. He's helped a lot of people in similar situations.


I took a pay cut in order to get out of the situation I saw as a rut.

I have some regrets (pay cuts are hard to swallow both for the ego and lifestyle), but I have a career path once more.


Take on more responsibility. Specifically say yes to something you want to do but are scared of. Like starting a business or getting a dog.


Time. Time fixes everything. In the mean time don't despair so much. Just trust that things will work out in the long run.


Time can fix things, but be careful with this also. We all only have the time we have, and it's easy to look up and it's been X years waiting for things to work out while just grinding away. So it's important to give things time, but also to figure out what actions will actually help things to work out and work toward doing those things.


Cannabis interacts with dopamine, I‘d recommend anyone with low motivation to stop it for a while and see if that helps.


This is sad. I hope you get help. Sounds a lot like depression. Are you excited about anything? Do you have a passion?


Hourly paid work with flexible schedule should help. Sometimes you work 5 hours per week, sometimes 25.


Quit the weed.


Did you consider quitting your job and working on personal projects/startups for some time?

It really helped me.


Sorry I only have a minute, but: search for the thread a few days ago about personal trainers


The solution is to get medicated with the right medicine for you if you truely have adhd


> one thing I'd like to clarify: I'm not suicidal.

Well hey, it could be worse.


True!


Been there...

> I'm ostensibly working on a game on the side, but I haven't touched it in months. I'm not even sure I want to continue it, as I've been working on it for years without being able to fulfill my goals for it.

Having to go through something like this in my life many times, I can give you this advice: Just try to do something with your game, even the smallest tiniest thing will get you closer to the goal than not doing anything at all. I'll give you an example what I mean when I had to iterate a protype of my project. I had a feeling it is not going to work and I was afraid the disappointent I am going to feel when I power it up and it won't work.

day one PCBs arrived, got myself to look at them and then put them away

day two looked at my desk it was a mess, so I decided to clean it and take anything that was not needed for assembly

day three I put the PCB on the desk, not doing anything else

day four I looked at the PCB, powered up soldering station, turned it off

day five I gathered all the needed components and put them in an accessible way next to my desk

day six sat at the desk, turned on radio, soldering station and soldered like half of the components, then anxiety got better of me, so I stopped

day seven feeling guilty I can't do anything, I have only wasted money on the project and I am a failure

day eight I assembled the remaining components. I had a timer on and it took me 15 minutes, but I was feeling it was taking me whole day

day nine I set up the power supply and took out the oscilloscope and meters

day ten I connected the device to power, turned it on. Didn't blow up. Turned it off.

day eleven. Turned the device on again, started probing. Not working correctly. Started looking at schematic and Googling what I could do. Found a post on a forum, someone suggested to someone with similar problem to change this and that component. Done that. It works. I can't believe it. I turned everything off.

day twelve. Turned the project on to check again. It works.

day thirteen. Applying changes to the PCB, placing new order.

day fourteen. Can't get myself to do anything, but cleaned the desk.

day fifteen. Overwhelming fear. What if it won't work this time or is that it? I can actually make a product out of it? and so on...

I mean if you think about it, I have done like one day of work in those two weeks, but I could as well just worry those two weeks and do nothing.

I didn't feel excited, happy or "into it". I just believe that this feeling will eventually pass (it did many times) and I'll get excited again.


Sorry to hear about it...just looking at this from a coaching perspective:

It seems like you are able to write comfortably, or at least at some length, using the emotional-outlay approach. Like--"this sucks, that sucks, here's why..., also I hate things because," and so on.

So let me just say--that's awesome. As a coach this lights my buttons up in ways your typical info-person will probably never understand.

The activity itself might feel whiny or focused on negatives, but a lot of people are really blocked from reaching higher goals and, suspiciously, they can't let themselves go there. Finally they do in some cases, and it always seems to work well. Human progress, and perception of progress, seems directly related to emotional outlay, even if not outright sobbing or cheering or whatever.

So, if possible, and if writing this even felt like a little bit of progress to you, I would keep doing it frequently.

Back when I was trying to overcome severe, chronic depression and anxiety myself, years ago, I kept a "life change" journal. Is life better today? If not, what will I do tomorrow? That sort of thing. Even writing "this sucks, I hate it" was often enough to be helpful.

In the meantime this might sound strange but IMO the way you write makes the game project stand out as a high emotional risk. So for now I think that in your shoes I'd personally treat the game as mainly a metaphorical interest, like a signal from the shadow: Find the joy in life again. And that's a major accountability project which ought to speak directly to your goals, but which is wide open.

Still, specifically related to game dev: I know some people who have walked a similar path in some ways. They were dying to make a game.

So--looking at the way you write, here's a method that I observed working well for people like that, which I'd probably assign to you:

1) Provide programming tutoring to someone you know, but really aren't too concerned about impressing 2) Give little assignments here and there 3) Slowly make coding a small game into a main assignment for them 4) Repeat a few times if possible.

What this does is keep you in the "I know how to do this" box (you're ready to teach people in lots of ways), with a light-touch treatment for the "but still, I haven't really done it before" (game dev) box.

And before long you will have done it, as a de facto compact with another person.

Just an idea.

I'm always glad to see a post by a Seinfeld fan. Good luck to you.

“Frolf: Frisbee golf, Jerry. Golf with a Frisbee. This is gonna be my time. Time to taste the fruits and let the juices drip down my chin. I proclaim this: The Summer of George!”

— George Costanza


Stop the weed and try somthing really new like going to a muay thai gym


Take a break for 6 months, then do whatever comes to your mind.


I started training for my private pilots license (It worked)


Sack it off and go travelling for a few months.


Start a family


You are not alone and are leaps ahead of others because you're able to write it out.

Feel free to talk to others looking to talk on Vibehut.io


Hit the gym and meet your loves.


Google The Hustlers University.


set an alarm and commit to taking a walk around the block each time it rings


Hey Mate,

This is the sort of discussion I come to HN for. I've loved reading through the comments. Thanks for creating this thread. Lots of good stuff here.

ADHD is relevant to burnout fatigue.

For me, burnout is easy to spot coming. Energy in... there has to be more satisfaction coming out.

When I can't just build the one little thing I set about building, I get frustrated with work.

For me, ADHD means that I worry about all the little shit that's going on that I can't control. I want to care about all of it, but it's so disappointing to have to continue to compromise and pivot throughout a project. You build something aligned with the original spec, and someone new comes in and says, "Bolt in some more crap." And my head instantly goes to, "But that'll fuck up our ability to do XYZ / work with ABC down the road..."

One of the things I've had long discussions with people over is, "How is it you can just care about one day at a time or one small thing you're building? How is it you don't have 200 ideas from the backlog running through your head all day? How is it you can go through the day without worrying about the 15 peripheral projects that your features impact? How can you not care about how this will work in the future?"

The last one is the big one. So many times in tech projects, we have to make compromises. "Oh well we don't have time to build it right, just slop something together... someone can manually run a script daily to keep it working until there's time to do it right." Fuck that sort of stuff, no matter how much I logically get the need for pushing things that aren't "perfect" (things will never be perfect)... they can't help but gnaw at me.

And all that shit gets heavy. Ghosts and tech debt just rattling around in my head all day. The longer I work on a project, the worse it gets. If the pace of build, and pace of wins, don't keep ahead of the distraction garbage then my satisfaction levels go into the shitter. And this is such a subjective thing.

A company could be crushing it, growing, product sales off the charts... but if my idea wasn't used, or I had to add more tuna-fish to the PB&J I thought we set out to make... y'know, if I can't control the dumb scope creep that costs us stuff I do care about... it's hard to balance it all. "But if we do this then our clean and nice and well-thought-through API has to be re-written to account for this idiot request from that idiot VP in the corner over there..." It's hard to keep happy. Burnout ensues.

Wish I had a solution for you. Exercise. Sure. Friends. Sure. Travel. Sure. For me... switching jobs every year or three helps gives me a reset. ADHD meds... if they work for you, keep monitoring them. The dosages shift over time. Figure out a good routine, and a good diet that lets your meds be most effective. I had to give up drinking and drugs. And man... I fucking loved tying one on after a project launch. But booze / drugs can make it easier to let yourself get down.

A change of scenery helps me. Fortunately, it's not hard to change jobs in the industry we're in. Getting to do things "my way" helps... most of the time. I hate jobs at big companies where I'm told "we have a process" -- if I want to feel any satisfaction, I need to be free to find a good solution, not just run a playbook someone else created.

Ways to work this in at work? Stay data-focused. It's OK to disagree with people, especially if you have data to back up your claims. Trust your gut, but sanity check yourself. Have a friend you trust who can sanity check you. "Hey, my gut says this is a bad idea... but I can't tell if it's a bad idea because I didn't come up with it, or it's a bad idea."

Realize that... this is the hard one for me... nothing will ever be perfect. Most things are shit, barely passable shit duct-taped together into something that sort of works somewhat but barely. Everything is silly fragile and written sloppy, and has a ton of garbage bolted onto it. But imperfect things still have value.

I try and focus on what people say about the work, not my own judgment of it. If I listened to my own judgment, man... I'd burn every last project down to the ground instead of launching it. But objectively, most of them were what the clients / business stakeholders needed at the time.

None of them ever gave me the full satisfaction I sought. I've learned that I have to get that other places.

Personal goals... just losing some weight, being able to run a mile in a certain amount of time, picking up X bags of garbage at the park, collecting all the Garbage Pail Kids cards... Who knows, who cares, just define some for yourself. You won't get paid. You won't get recognition. But you have these personal metrics to help you keep from getting down. Deep down, I know I'm a good person because of ABC. I know I have value because of XYZ. Finding these things is what life is all about. (=

I wish someone had told 20-something me, "Hey, work can in rare occurrences give you some thrills, but in the long run it'll never make you happy." Just treat it like a paycheck. You've gotta have your own performance metrics, and find purpose in your life that isn't a 9-to-5 job. What are we here for? That's up to you to define for yourself, but you won't get much satisfaction out of life until you find / define your own path.


The most important piece of information that you did not provide is.. do you have a partner? kids? If you do then I would suggest focusing more on the ADHD/depression angle, if not keep reading.

Hi, this is also something I struggle with frequently. One thing I have realized is that we often are looking for "motivation", like there is some kind of hidden philosophical epiphany we just need to unlock and them boom we would be in gear. It doesn't exist. Yet, then how do so many seem to have it? Well.. because they have found themselves in circumstances which force behavioral change. Marriage, having kids, being in a stressful on demand job... these force you to change your behaviors and environment. For those that can't find those things or they don't come naturally, it becomes incredibly challenging to force yourself to change you behavior.

I bet you know what you want to be doing.. you want to be spending a few hours a day making your game, you want to be working harder at work to advance your career, you want to be learning new things, you want to be exercising and eating better. It is not a question of motivation or trying to find some hidden secret to life (that is better then have a wife and kids).

At the end of the day, humans respond best to structure and obedience, even if you don't consider your personality to mesh with that. If life itself has not forced you into the behaviors you want (also realize that for many people it has.. they haven't found the secret to life either) then you need to force them.

Thus, I would suggest you do one of two things: realize you need someone else to force you, and spend your time looking for a partner with plans of having a family. Do everything you can to make that happen (diet, exercise, go to therapy to help with social anxieties, go to meetups and dating events).

Your other option, is to force yourself to make the changes. You need to change your behaviors. Cleaning your home (and being very strict about it), exercising for 15 minutes a day, doing duo-lingo for 15 minutes a day, eating a proper breakfast everyday, playing a single game of chess a day, reading a tough philosophy book for 15 minutes every day, etc, etc. The key is to keep trying new things and stay consistent. It is possible to build routines and hobbies even when in depression, it just takes a small amount of effort and a ton of self discipline. Do this for a few months and while your life may not be changed in the ways you want, while you may not find your motivation, you will 100% change the way you think about life.

Humans are not complicated, we need structure, we desire to be obedient. Most people find that structure in social life (family, friends, significant other) and don't realize just how crucial is to their happiness and motivation. If you can't find it from others, you need to force it yourself. What you can't do... is wait around hoping for something to provide that structure... because no amount of positive thinking will give you it.


> Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.

not a minor detail. take some time to recharge and build anticipation for your work.

some things that help me a lot, in no particular order, which may or may not resonate with you:

- get a therapist

- get medicated

- spend time meditating

- make sure you're staying hydrated and eating healthy foods

- stretch, try to exercise. if you can't exercise still stretch. if you can only exercise for 2 minutes, do that, if you can't at all, that's ok. still try to stretch

- avoid telling yourself what you should or shouldn't do. keep things very optional and open. It's really easy to be compulsively telling yourself what you should be doing all day every day. I keep a "possibilities" list, and only add to it when i'm feeling overwhelmed like i need to do everything all at once. putting stuff onto the list makes me feel like i've made progress on it, even if i haven't -- which is fine, because the goal is to make sure I don't forget, to give it a bit of attention, but not distract or take over what i'm actually trying to accomplish

- try to catch when you're telling yourself what you should do, and reframe it as something you could do, and how it might benefit you to do it

- get some sunlight, or at least a happy light. it will help regulate hormones and your sleep cycle

- practice sleep hygiene and get a healthy amount of sleep

- take all of what you said, and say "...and that's ok" -- practice acceptance. you're working on improving your situation, even if it feels like you haven't. reaching out to HN like this is a big thing.

- don't try to get out of the rut, just try to be at peace with yourself. the rut will pass, but fighting it will elongate it.

- find and fix the small stressors in your life. small changes can make a big difference.

- develop routines so you can spend more time on autopilot, or not have to worry about stuff

- don't try to do too much at once. set small achievable incremental goals for yourself. your goal is to be doing better, however small of an increment that may be

- > All I really look forward to these days is getting high

I say this with absolutely no judgement: this is probably negatively impacting you. Something that helped me is switching to 20:1 cbd:thc vape cartridges. Maybe try with 5:1, then 10:1. This is also assuming it's legal where you are.

The goal is to find ways to take care of yourself, honor your needs, and really nurse yourself to a better place. Many of the things are about taking care of the body -- the state of your body has a big impact on your state of mind.

You'll get there


For the very moment you're in: I think it may be wise to accept things won't change today, or this week, but they will change soon, and for that to happen, you need to slowly start zooming out.

Your misery is quite a common part of life for many here, I would say.

It takes a huge amount of energy and dedication to become (and to stay) really good or successful at something, and to make it worse, there's so much competition (in technology now anyways) — it often seems everyone's two steps ahead. It can be absolutely daunting and feel like an impossible thing to pick up any motivation to keep up. I fully get it. Most of us have been at this very spot, many times before.

On paper, the solution is simple. The main reason you work for someone else is because you need money. You need that money, because it affords you things in life you otherwise won't have. See Herzberg's motivation-hygiene theory.

Once you start to have more than the bare minimum of financial resources needed, you could start playing with things that interest you, or improve on the quality of things you already have. Most of us work our asses off to make as much money as possible, and that as fast as possible, so that we get to make the best use of it in our actual lives while we still can. That's the official reason, anyway.

The odd thing is, you need to know what you want in life. Without knowing, nothing will be worth even a minute of your work once you leave the "hygiene" territory.

If you just follow common patterns in life (get a job, be a good worker, try to get a raise, save for a house, start a family), you will eventually start questioning why you're doing all of this.

To know what you want in life, is probably impossible to fully figure out without knowing what you don't want. Exploring a bit of negative space to find the limits of what you're happy with, can be a start to find a solution eventually.

In tech, we have the insane luxury (at least for now) of being very easily employable. Your "hygiene" is sorted. This should allow you to explore quite a bit more than others.

My biggest struggle with "getting excited about new things" is that I almost always tend to interpolate into a wildly assumed future outcome where the idea or thing I am interested in turns out to be a waste of time. But it isn't.

I spent two years trying to write a book. Every day I worried about this being the stupidest thing I've attempted, every day I wanted to give up for that very reason. I kept pushing on with zero motivation, just out of self-hatred almost, wanting to see myself fail and knowing it all along — and, then, I eventually ended up meeting with the senior editors of the largest publishing house in the country. A potential deal was on the table, and two weeks later, it fell through. The project was terminated then and there, and I had nothing to show for two years of trying to be someone else in life. I did, however, learn so much about the industry (and writing in general), even so much so that I now feel incredibly happy that I fully tried and experienced it, but have this warm understanding with myself that this isn't something I'd like to do. I'm happier for it.

And, while I have to keep an eye on baseline income, I continue to explore things that I feel could be interesting. Sometimes, it's one evening and then I lose interest, other times, it can take years.

The only thing that makes this possible, is accepting that part of life is to explore and figure out what you like and don't like. If you take away "money or exposure" as success criteria (at the start), and your goal is to see how far you can get with it, then life should hopefully start to feel a lot easier to push through. I think it's important to understand that it's okay to have a hundred failed, unfinished projects, because many people keep looking for that one thing that pulls them out of it, that one thing that will finally change everything.

It rarely exists. I think it's a long string of random things, and while you can theorize in your mind about those forever, you could also just go and do whatever you like. Keep the base income flowing, and use your time to be someone else for a little while.


Are you taking ADHD meds?


Hey RutStucker.

Replace the computer science degree with general IT tech support/engineering. Add a little "not diagnosed with ADHD until my mid 20's", "depression and anxiety due to living with undiagnosed ADHD and in general bad living situation" - and you've got me. (Surprise, I'm browsing and writing this response while I'm at work!)

I've been a heavy marijuana user for 4-5 years - used to be I'd smoke a bit before bed to take some of my anxiety away - which over the course of a few months evolved into any waking hour I wasn't working or had social/personal obligations, I'd be stoned. Now it's 2-3 years later and I'm still in the same boat and I'm trying to quit. I've even """upgraded""" to vaping the oil extracts in 510 carts because the relatively weaker flower doesn't work for me much anymore. Marijuana is definitely addictive and definitely has the ability to mess with/manipulate your brain and cause problems if you're a addictive personality/habit type of person. I've tried multiple times to take tolerance breaks but find myself going back after a couple of days so it's very demoralizing - hopefully I'll finally break the habit. I find I get stoned and get couch-locked into a video game for multiple hours at a time and it's causing me to stay up later, not get as much sleep, not get things done that I want to get done, etc.

If you think the marijuana might be affecting your cognitive abilities in the day-to-day I'd suggest looking at taking a tolerance break (_WAY_ easier said than done).

I've also been seeing a psychiatrist to help me with the knock-on effects of my ADHD - depression, anxiety, etc - and they've recommended I keep a journal that I can write in whenever I want, how much I want to write, etc. - I've found it very freeing to physically write compared to typing as I feel my brain doesn't 'slow down' enough to mentally comprehend the stuff I'm typing as compared to writing.

I haven't made an entry in 2-3 weeks but there's been times where I've written 2-3 pages 5 days in a row. I use it as something to get the anxious, persistent thoughts out of my head that won't go away. With ADHD - it's VERY important to not get stuck in the "I should be writing in my journal, I'm such a useless person, I can't even write in my journal every day what an idiot I must be" way of thinking" is a bad line of thought you can go down and with therapy tools like CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) can help by "re-wiring"/subconsciously training away those bad thought patterns or giving you the tools to recognize them and re-orient yourself to a better way of thinking. It's very hard but it's possible.

There's also the option of taking pharmaceuticals as a helper while you're addressing this point in your life if you feel like you've got depression or anxiety problems - I've been taking an amphetamine and an anti-depressant for the past 6-7 years - I've got my own personal niggling about how I've probably been taking these drugs for far too long and it's possible they've permanently re-wired my brain for the worse but it's something you'd definitely want to talk to a healthcare professional about. (honestly, the marijuana might be doing more damage than the pharmaceuticals but who knows)

I don't know if there's private messaging on this forum, but if there is feel free to reach out and I'll try to respond if you've got any questions or just want to chat.


You need to go on a vision quest. Shrooms - but! measure your dose very carefully, a little less that 3.5oz, on a bright sunny day with trusted friends in a park without many people. That will fix you. Or else send you to hell. Either way you’ll be out of the rut




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