Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Ask HN: In these uncertain times, how do you handle anxiousness
117 points by anxioustech on June 17, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 150 comments
I'm a senior freelance fullstack engineer working a day gig and an hourly side gig "just in case", clocking around 45 hours a week for ~5$k/week in a country where the average salary is 1900$ a month.

I'm paying myself a small salary compared to what I earn and I invest everything else.

Given my income and my economic situation I shouldn't feel anxious, yet I can't relax thinking every hour spent watching netflix is in a way costing me ~110$.

So when I don't have any more work for the week, I work on my hard and soft skills through certifications so I can up even more my hourly rate.

It's a never ending race, I've been playing this game since 2016, finding new ways to earn more, not because I'm passionate about it, but because I'm anxious everything could come crashing down in a couple of years and I'll need the money.

I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics when it should be about science and people...

I've tried not caring, going to bars and restaurants and beautiful places in vacation, getting a new car, finding hobbies... but I can't pretend, I don't know how to cope anymore.

So I work, always, because I'm anxious I won't be able to provide for the people around me, my sister won't earn enough to feed her family, my mom won't be able to retire even though her work is killing her, my dad's small business will be ruined if the economy collapses...




>I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics when it should be about science and people...

I think my opinion is unpopular, but it shouldn't be, and perhaps the fact that it's unpopular is part of the reason why so many people find themselves in this situation.

It sounds like you need to speak to a professional and go to therapy. You're putting too much pressure into things that are completely outside of your control, and part of living a healthy live is accepting that you cannot control the universe and learning how to detach yourself from these issues.


Your opinion might be unpopular but it shouldn't be. I'm quite well off, have friends, an overall good life, but at the same time was a miserable sack of shit.

Until I talked to a therapist. Initially we spoke every week, now I talk to her about once a month. We talk about everything. What bothers me at work. What bothers me in the world. Things that are going well. Things that are unfair. And she's an impartial advisor on how I can handle and deal with my feelings.

Going to a therapist has turned my life around for the better, and I feel dumb for not going earlier.

If we break our bones we visit a doctor. If our teeth hurt we visit a dentist. And similarly when we feel depressed we should talk to a therapist.

I hope OP finds the help he needs.


>If we break our bones we visit a doctor. If our teeth hurt we visit a dentist.

Depends on your health insurance, financial standing and free time. If you're an affluent tech worker you probably would go to a dentist for a toothache. Most people I know would not.

I wouldn't compare mental health to broken bones. We've been successfully treating broken bones for thousands of years. Seeking treatment for depression or generalized anxiety is more similar to seeing a doctor for some poorly understood malady like ME/CFS or IBS. No one really understands what's going on or why. You might try some medication or treatment and it might work, do nothing or make things worse.

It's worth a try but it's not a silver bullet. If your life sucks and your future prospects are bad then therapy is really just helping you cope.


You’re missing his point. He’s making an appeal to see someone trained to help someone having a mental health related issue. This would be in opposition to simply talking to friends and family or balling it up inside.

Your comments about income inequality are valid but the OP stated he has sufficient income that he should be able to find help. My benefits package pays for a dozen therapy sessions and the rest are $25 each. Ironically my company doesn’t provide dental insurance. Apparently being an affluent tech worker means you don’t need to have working teeth ;).


You are right on all points, but please ask yourself if the contrarian details really detract from the main message. I'd argue not.

And, to be clear, "Helping you cope" is so extremely powerful and is essentially the point of therapy, most religions, and all major life philosophies. Coping skills are the foundation of solid mental health and long-term happiness.


> Seeking treatment for depression or generalized anxiety is more similar to seeing a doctor for some poorly understood malady like ME/CFS or IBS. No one really understands what's going on or why

You're not wrong, but we gotta start somewhere.


> You're putting too much pressure into things that are completely outside of your control

Here’s the thing, they’re not! There’s multiple things you can do here. One is that you can choose your battles. Part of life is accepting that you can’t fix everything, or even devote all your effort into it. That isn’t to say “just give up”, it’s more that you should find the best thing an average consumer can do here and just do that. Vote. Eat vegan. Donate to Ukraine. Whatever it is.

But, one thing you can do is dedicate an above-average amount of effort into a few things you really care about. A lot of people find this to be a good way to find fulfillment, perhaps it might work here too. You can’t make your impact on everything but you can definitely aim towards fixing something.


Saving the planet is outside of your control. Caring for it is not.


This is the way.

The OP may be suffering from an anxiety disorder. A therapist is a good first step to getting it identified and start getting it treated.


> It sounds like you need to speak to a professional and go to therapy. You're putting too much pressure into things that are completely outside of your control, and part of living a healthy live is accepting that you cannot control the universe and learning how to detach yourself from these issues.

It is so funny how thinks matter so little... the things that we as humans put so much weight in. I used to worry so much about work, life, dying in a plane accident (I got nervous everytime I flew). And yet... I got COVID and really fucked me up (even though I am no overweight, have no comorbidities, etc etc... healthy 40 yo adult). As a result of the Covid and AZ vaccines I got an ischemic stroke. Just like that. That has really changed my view of life, now work doesn't matter that much, and my priorities have changed a ton. I still do my job happily and what I do excites me. But you bet I won't be spending the time and effort I spent about 10 years ago when I took a startup from 6 people to Series B. My health (me), family (wife) and extended family (dad, mom, brother) are my main priorities now. And of course, enjoying life.

There are so many things out of our control that shouldn't worry us, and normally the things that matter and that we can control, we decide to let them slide.


I don't think it's unpopular.

Not sure if you enhance the stigma by writing this though.


If the worst happens all the money in the world won’t save you. No one can predict the future, including you, and if the future is doomed your time is far more precious than your money.

Times always seem uncertain to those living in them, especially if you pay close attention to all the various problems in the world almost exclusively (of which there has always, and will always be a long list of). Instead focus on what’s in front of you and in your control in the here and now. Be grateful for the immensely wonderful and comfortable amenities around you. When was the last time you were hungry and couldn’t find food? Or even more when was the last time you couldn’t eat virtually anything you wanted to within an hour?

This is not the sign of a civilization on the verge of collapse. We’ve got some things to sort, and may not get there, but enjoy the immense privilege it is to try while you have the faculties to do so.


Hey there. I know exactly what you mean and why you are going through this.

This is the fate of very talented AND moral/just/fair people – who work in a social environment where there is no social equality.

For reference: I worked in India where the average monthly salary is much lower than what you said. Curse of being talented/rewarded, when you walk/bike through the streets where everyone is struggling to live, and the government doesn't care and all your tax dollars go to waste.

Do any of the following. It will make you feel better:

* Donate, small but regularly. Know a school for disadvantaged kids nearby, or a facility for elderly? Donate them $250/month. You will immediately feel better. You don't neeed to spend time for this, just do it.

* Or volunteer. Spend a few months in a country more desperate than your current country. Contact your local UNICEF or Red Cross and volunteer as a consultant. You don't need any special skills. If you can take care of your own expenses (food, travel) – they will be happy to fit you in any of their programmes. You will need to invest time for this.

* Or last but contentious: Move to a country where your tax dollars are properly used and you can personally see it in your eyes as society being more equitable and harmonious. I'm talking about Europe. You won't feel the urge to correct an imbalance when your tax dollars already work for society.

You feel morally repugnant to be rich in a poor society. There is nothing wrong about feeling that way. It makes you a real human. Don't try to cure yourself out of it. Just act on it. Do what can be reasonably done within your individual reach.

Edit: minor grammar.


I wanted to chime in as I relate a lot to your points but coming from the other side of the globe: Brazil.

I grew up in a lower middle class family, which in Brazil means that we had enough money to not get desperate about feeding our family and having a roof over our heads. No other luxuries, we never travelled as a family, my parents never really took vacations, etc. Still, it was a pretty comfortable life compared to the really poor people (50+% of society). I was just lucky to have programming as a hobby since I was a kid and lucking out getting a job early in life (15-16 years old).

I feel so much better living in Sweden while donating to good charity projects in Brazil, helping my family however I can financially and living a decent life, seeing my tax money being well invested in public goods, etc.

I absolutely support all of your points, they helped me fight this inner struggle of not feeling I deserved to be so well paid in a society that is generally so poor. I felt guilty a lot of times and at the same time frustrated with so many aspects of Brazilian society, I had to move out.


I passed the edit window. I missed what you said about your close family and relatives. So maybe I understood wrong, you're worried about your future.

This is also true. Yes, in places with lower social equality – higher pay does not lead to less anxiety, on the contrary it leads to more. No amount of earning will feel enough when there are zero social nets for people around you. People earning much lesser but in environments with good social nets are less anxious about their future.

In this case, I would recommend what the others recommend: Find a shoulder to cry on, and keep chugginng along. Therapists, trusted friends, relatives – people whom you can trust and vent your insecurities safely on. Remember, people earning lower have it even worse.


I would never suggest this out of the blue, but since you are asking: I recommend therapy. The Netflix comment is what makes me say this, as well as the “state of the world”. Most psychiatrists do online sessions now, and the first one tends to be free. I recommend trying 2 or 3 first sessions, and choosing one.

Depending on the diagnosis, eventually they might tell you to contact a psychiatrist to try some drugs. In my case, that helped. That’ll take time though. The therapist will probably start with the basics: sleep, food, social interaction, family, couple, exercise.

WRT the state of the world: you first have to accept that you are not going to be able to fix the whole world on your own. The cpu cycles you spend thinking about that is wasted energy. Concentrate on what you can do. That depends on your circumstances and your motivation. Donate money to charities or political parties. Teach children in the local school. Plant threes. Investigate and write to motivate others. Whatever you think will improve things.

Then (very important, but also difficult) transform those thoughts into action - don’t just them just fester inside your head. Take a piece of paper and a calendar and make a plan, and commit to it.

Also, beware that there’ll be setbacks and problems. Don’t be hard on yourself when those arrive. It’s part of the process.

Good luck!


Historically, this is the role religion played. I'm not saying "go to church" (or mosque or temple or whatever it is you want to go to)... But sometimes we get a little smug looking at the past. There's thousands of years of culture built up you can avail yourself of.


I learned for myself that God is real, and it matters for our daily lives. It helps to know that this life (what we see) is not the end, nor the beginning. Honesty and the Golden Rule (treating others the way oneself would want to be treated, with wisdom) go a long way. For greater satisfaction, a focus on learning to serve others makes a huge difference (see, for example, http://justserve.org for volunteer opportunities in your locale, if available there). Knowing what you need to know, and having purpose in life makes all the difference at being able to balance things. Incredibly helpful to me on a daily basis -- peace, hope, and all the good feelings, ongoing, even amid very hard (growing & learning, I believe) experiences. More at my web site, in profile, and questions welcome. (Nothing for sale.)

ps: the things you say, caring about your family, learning skills and supporting self and/or others with honest labor, sound noble and good, and you can pat yourself on the back for it. Finding balance and peace can simply add to that. I.e., keep all the good that you have and see what can be added to it.


Stop reading so much. News gets views out of things that make people anxious. Recognize this(or don't) and try to take a break. Even if the world was ending tomorrow, being anxious isn't going to change that. Try your best to make a positive impact on the world, and relax.


I gave up looking at my anxiety in a negative way. Instead i look at it as a tool my subconscious and body use to communicate with my conscious mind to raise flags about potential issues.

I’ve heard about people among my circle die during the pandemic because they were careless. Here i am not even having been infected. I hear about people struggling to pay for gas yet here i am driving my 10mpg two seater just for fun. I hear about people struggling to pay bills yet here i am with savings in my account to last for a decent number of years. All of those people used to tell me i worry too much, i am too anxious yet somehow they ask me to find them jobs or come looking for advice.

Like you i work my ass off, i invest in courses, i do consulting and do side gigs. I invest my little money in various things and i keep an eye on events around me.

My “anxiety” pays off. I accepted it as part of who i am and i am no longer looking at it in a negative way. If i watch a netflix movie and my mind tells me i should do something useful then thats what i do.

In my view its a matter of perspective. Clinical anxiety is not great, and one should seek professional help. But when anxiety tells you you should keep building and investing in yourself then you should listen to it. Of course one should be careful with not burning out and one should dose the amount of effort put into things, but to me you sound like someone who is responsible and the type of person that pulls others up and that is a good thing. But remember, you need to let your body and mind rest from time to time so you can focus better.

Once one accepts this then the anxiety you describe will become a normal thing and you will even be able to enjoy things knowing that you are still in control where possible. At least thats how it works in my case.


Thank you for saying this. My anxiety ( when it manifests ) usually is a good indicator I am moving in the wrong direction and need to correct my course. I wonder if anyone did any studies on its evolutionary basis.


You seem to be pretty well off. Basically, you make in a month about a years salary of your location, plus investments, plus savings.

If anything happens, you will have a way better position than anyone else.

If you want to prepare for the most likely things to happen, care about your health, because neglecting it WILL come back to you. Learn to relax, exercise, eat healthy, spend quality time with loved ones.

Any apocalyptical event is extremely unlikely. Even the pandemic is, after all, handled pretty well and did not turn out to be the end of civilization.

And remember, news site live from ad impressions these days News have to be scary to be clicked, bad news are repeated and exaggerated. Nobody wants to read "all is fine today", and a lot of news is " because of X, Y might happen", although it barely happens. Deal with it like with engineering: It's a problem, when it's a problem. Otherwise move on.


Sounds like you're doing well professionally. But that your professional success and growth (again, which are great things) are part of a cover-up mechanism for underlying fear (which is valid and relatable). Even your vacations, restaurants, new hobbies, those all sound like they're in the bucket of "external things" (alongside your professional success) to try to stave off the existential anxiety about the crumbling world all around us.

Like others are suggesting, I'd consider spending time finding a counselor who is a good fit for you (may need to do some shopping around), or read up on books about anxiety, how to let go of things outside of your sphere of influence and control, and etc.

Those are more "inner" stuff (vs the "external" things, such as work, hobbies, vacay, food, people, etc.). Inner stuff is huge, because it basically impacts every single relationship we have, with anyone, anywhere, no matter the degree of closeness or not.

Some folks will settle for managing the symptoms of anxiety, but others try to go after the roots of the causes and see if they can even replace the roots with entire new paradigms.

Either way, it's kind of a long-haul commitment, a lifestyle, if you will. Just some food for thought to consider. Glad you're doing well with your work. Hope you can find that inner equilibrium no matter what's happening around us (because we're learning to manage what is within us, so to speak).


You've gotten really good advice in this thread and there's no point repeating it, so my contribution will be to be to encourage you to explore catastrophe. Look into some of the worst events ever to happen (world war 1 and 2 come to mind). Read about exactly how many people died and what the level of destruction was. And then read about how quickly people rebuilt their lives. How property rights and basic society bounced back. How absolute poverty was worked back to wealth. How beautiful humanitarian ideologies were birthed from massive destruction. We're talking trough to peak in under a decade in some cases.

I'm an anxious personality and a pessimist through and through, but I'm super optimistic in the long run. Humanity is resilient and beautiful as heck.


Stop reading the news. The incentives lead to amplification of negative narratives and the unhealthy feeling that you are responsible for or able to respond to every bad thing in the world. It is a mental health crisis.

If you stop reading the news and discover that you and the people around you are mostly happy and you are able to ease their suffering and help them find joy, them you've found the way to live. The nagging feeling that we must each, individually, fix the world is masochistic arrogance. It's a shame that there's so much money to be made promoting it.


This is great attitude, I would even say we are standing pretty good if not best ever in human history so far, considering the human experience in the past.


This is the real answer. Get off the news and get off the social media feeds constantly barraging us with negative narratives.


Life is inherently dangerous; nobody survives it. In the chaos that exists around us we need to take the chances we can to enjoy life while we can.

Nobody says we can't do something useful with our time, but spending one's sparetime working won't help.

I've heard the phrase "chop wood, carry water" here on HN a few times. It's not a bad concept and if you have the option then I'd suggest trying. It's far more rewarding than watching Netflix.


> It's not a bad concept

What an extreme understatement! (Graham Chapman: "It's a good idea, O Lord!") ...It is part of a tradition.

Anyway, you seem to be using that idea on an odd interpretation. Have you taken it to be, "live simply"?

That would be part of the recipe, but the actor should first (or parallely) learn to approach matters accordingly. And this is where the submitter shows difficulties.

This is why I strongly subscribe to said «spending one's sparetime working [for further money] won't help».


My take on it is that everything doesn't have to be running at peak efficiency just so that we can maximize our time spent consuming. It doesn't have to be actual woodchopping.

The OP mentions Netflix but also that hobbies feel like a waste of time. I'd go as far as to claim Netflix is a waste of time while a hobby that leaves you happier isn't.

Edit: for the record, actual wood chopping is a very rewarding task. It's a great way of relaxing one's mind after a stressful day at work.


You must have heard that phrase decontextualized: it is a formula used for something very different.


Either that, or from someone else who also mis-interpreted it. Feel free to elaborate! :)


No, when I say "used", I mean by non-laymen - speakers close to its source use it for something very different. (The actual context is not a matter fitting for this discussion.)


I don’t believe this kind of statement in general. It’s a whitewashed way to say “I’ve tied up my self worth in money. I like keeping score and reminding myself of where I stand relative to other people “. In short, it’s ego.

But no one wants to say that so they make up stuff about “providing for their family”.


With a decreasing birth rate and labor participation rate, is it not reasonable to predict competition for labor to be higher in future years? And competition for resources in general, such as fuel, water, food, and desirable land to be higher in future years?


Wouldn't competition for those things be lower, if there are fewer people?


After the population pyramid stabilizes and ratio of workers to non workers goes up again (labor participation rate).

But while the labor participation rate declines, the non workers still have demand for labor/resources. This would push prices up, when compared to times that labor participation rate is higher.


I guess this will push up the prices of labor-intensive things, and might reduce the prices of commodities that are capital- but not labor- intensive to extract. So robotically-mined open-pit coal will be cheap, and so will Midwestern wheat, and probably even vacation properties in scarce mountain or beach locations (making allowances for global warming). But if you want a barista to make your latte, that'll set you back $40, and if you want somebody to put a new roof on your house, God help you.


Sounds like you are in Eastern Europe? I am in Serbia in similar situation but since living through everything happened here from 1999 onwards you learn to just accept whatever life throws at you. So basically just enjoy the moment and small things. The life is now. Nothing is certain about the future and there is no way to buy future wellbeing. You only truly own the past memories, so make more of that fantastic memories right now.


What has helped me is accepting that I can't control other peoples' actions. So all I can do is use my vote in elections, doing my best to avoid making things worse, and try to prepare for me and my own. If others are destroying the earth, the best I can do is try to put myself in a position where it affects me and my family as little as possible. I can't save everyone.

I can also relate to the feeling of losing money when not working. Basically I've come to terms with the fact that, yes, a day off is expensive, but it's worth it to spend time with my family and taking care of myself.


Couple weeks ago I decided to stop following news. It has helped my mood tremendously. There are things I can't affect, climate change, wars, plagues and corporates being corporates. I rather focus on the things that I can: people around me, my work, spending time with kids, making food and music.


Yeah, the reality is that things right now really are pretty bad and likely to get much worse. Pretty much everyone knows that the situation now is not sustainable and that we're only starting to really experience the consequences of letting things get this messed up.

Of course so many people are experiencing anxiety these days. Our lizard brains are screaming at us that we need to be doing something, but pretty much all of us are powerless to stop the worst things going on and it's perfectly normal to not know what we're supposed to be doing right now. "Prepare" is a very sensible instinct and money really can solve, or at least ease, a lot of problems so it makes sense to want more in times of uncertainty. Sounds like you know you're in a pretty good place there already though.

I would suggest (as others have) talking with therapist, but I'd also suggest that you spend time examining the specific issues that worry you to try to think of things you can do to help or at least prepare for what's likely to happen in ways besides just making more money. Listen to your body which is telling you this isn't the time to be idle, but make sure you're devoting that energy where it can do the most good without making yourself miserable.


It says that "Nintendo" or "任天堂" the brand name refers to an old Chinese saying "謀事在人，成事在天" which means "Man proposes, God disposes", or "do your best and leave it to the fate".

The idea is not far from the stoic ones - try your best and stop worrying. It's like an idea from this classic debate on TDD [0]: Unit tests make you confident. You write it, you forget it. It makes you sleep at night.

In my first few years of my career, I was constantly and unconsciously thinking about the code, the business requirement, the team, even outside the working hours. That stressed and drained me a lot. In the end I realized I shouldn't have done that. If I am to worry about those things, I just book myself a calendar and go over those things within the time-box. If I need more time, I book another time block for the next day - as simple as that.

Now write that "unit test", forget it, and sleep well at night.

If you really need to worry about them, you should have a "quarterly/monthly worrying day" to reflect about your life, your career, strategies and all that. Outside that day, you just live your happy life.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9quxZsLcfo


It's sometimes easy to get really scared of things you haven't thought all the way through. What _specifically_ are you scared of? Do you have reason to be scared of consequences of global warming that will be deadly in your generation? Are you scared about some kind of disastrous societal collapse greater than the World Wars, French Revolution or the collapse of the USSR? Are you afraid of not being able to enjoy some of your current luxuries, or are you afraid of you and your family dying?

If you don't really analyse these things, it can become easy to only think a slightly bad thing is likely, but feel the fear of some catastrophic impossible worst-case scenario happening, just because you haven't disentangled the two.

Also, I don't agree with your money-centric analysis. It's great that you're saving up all this money, but money is also transitory, and the things you're investing your savings in might collapse. It sounds like you instead have something much more valuable. Based on your salary, you probably have skills valued by society and are a hard worker. This probably means that even if you had $0 in the bank and had to start from scratch, you'd manage.

Therapy will help with these things. If it does, perfect. If you go and it doesn't, you can just stop going. You can definitely afford it.

Good luck! :)

Edit: Oh, and stop reading the news and focus on your work. It's obviously incredibly easy to get a doomsday perspective by reading about all the bad things happening all the time. This does not mean only bad things happen, plenty of good things do as well.


I've been there some years ago.

I also had a normal job + an hourly gig in the evenings + studying for a master degree. I'm not exactly sure what changed but I stopped caring about that race of needing to be productive 100% of the time. It's a fallacy, I think at some point I realised I'll be alright even if I lose everything, I just need food and shelter and I should be able to afford that in most scenarios. I think it had an ego component as well, at least for me, it was about being "successful" as external validation. As I matured I felt naturally more confortable with my situation and it passed ... I hope it will for you as well.

As for the feeling of doom, my only recomendation is to step back from the news and the constant bombardment of "bad things". No need to become a hermit, but come back from the world stage and look at your neighbourhood, maybe read local news instead and reconect to your actual surroundings. Reading and talking about the new park they're opening next door instead of what's going on miles away has helped me a bit.


> I also had a normal job + an hourly gig in the evenings + studying for a master degree. I'm not exactly sure what changed but I stopped caring about that race of needing to be productive 100% of the time. It's a fallacy, I think at some point I realised I'll be alright even if I lose everything, I just need food and shelter and I should be able to afford that in most scenarios. I think it had an ego component as well, at least for me, it was about being "successful" as external validation. As I matured I felt naturally more confortable with my situation and it passed ... I hope it will for you as well.

And once you come to that realisation, you can start living off some of those savings just to chill out and not be "productive". While in reality that's probably what you need.

Worst case scenario for the OP is probably finding another gig in a few weeks.


I was watching a video from the 1970s, and the speaker said "In these uncertain times..."

It seems everyone thinks they are living in uniquely scary times.

Like other people have said: OP needs to try therapy


Find a partner that isn’t neurotic and then have kids so you have something more important and real to focus on.


Have to disagree here. Bringing kids into a situation where one parent is struggling in hopes that the presence of the child will fix it isn't fair to the child.

Source: My parents had me so I could fix them.


I second this, but s/kids/cats/g


To put myself at ease I ask myself two questions: how long can I live with solely on my savings & investments? And how long, conservatively, would it take me to find work if I lost my job tomorrow?

It sounds like you've had good financial habits during the good times and have a good chunk of money saved and invested. That's a great place to be. If you lost all of your income sources tomorrow, would it take you long to find another job? ANY job? There are still lots of tech jobs out there, but there is also an abundance of service work in many cities that they cannot fill. That could be enough to cover expenses, though you probably won't save.

Aside from the above, I would recommend seeing a therapist to help you navigate this time in your life.


Being married with kids helps me. To be able to live for a new family unit and striving to give them a better life than I had, is sustaining.


I find this true also. Gives you a pretty clear purpose. But I do think people err on the side of creating a future for their kids (working forever to build up wealth to pass on) rather than living in a present that is engaging and full of memories now.


> I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics when it should be about science and people...

This is an easy trap to fall into (even though most of it is factually untrue, or otherwise not interesting...war in europe is like a fact of life, for instance). And as others have said, this line is indicative of some deeper/broader issues than worrying about money during a down economy.


You can get killed by a car the moment you exist your house. So, chill out. Learn to enjoy life and time spent with those near you.

You have back up investments, so you did things to have a fail over plan. Just relax!


Unfortunately, "just relax" is not helpful advice for the anxious person, any more than "just cheer up" is for the depressed.


It's as much help as anyone can do. Focusing on things that are out of your control is a great way to get anxiety. Telling people with anxiety not to watch or read those things, get more exercise and eat healthier is about the best advice you can give, short of saying 'go and speak to a GP or counsellor' if it's extremely bad.

Ultimately, your mental health can only be solved by one person. You.


I think you should really shut down working for six month and stay away from all of this. You really need to understand that the world is not gonna end in the next 5 years and given your particular situation, you would be able to handle not working for at least one year.

Once you're not in this race, you will probably engage yourself with other things and you will start developing a clarity in thinking about this whole feeling.

But this is definitely something you need to implore otherwise it can negatively impact your mental and physical health.


I'm not sure if this helps you but my goal is to earn enough money and then life on my own farm care free were.i can then make me self sufficient.

Perhaps you need a goal for your money as well?

Perhaps you already have enough to buy something which gives you the safety net to fall onto?

For me my own little farm means water storage and solar panels and wood and stuff.

But it also means creating a garden for more biodiversity and building the soil up and trying to build it sustainable.

The farm could also have enough space to provide shelter for the rest of your family if they desire to join you.


I moved to the forest, way off grid.

The grand existential worries are further away, and the birds still sing each morning. Of course the worries are still there, but I have enough real, imminent, and perfectly solvable worries right here to keep me occupied and feeling adequately in control of my environment.

I suppose one can choose to try to persist in the mechanised world, and if you can make it work, power to you — or you can reject it and walk away into the bushes. There’s nothing wrong with choosing a different path. Some folks will try to talk you out of it, but they speak from their fears. Now more than ever, what with all-spanning connectivity, if you need to work for a living, you can, from anywhere.

Keep investing, is all I’d say - the markets are depressed and are likely to become moreso, so it’s an excellent time to think about accruing - it’s how I’ve afforded to do what I do, and work only because I want to.

For what it’s worth, my living expenses out here are so low that it’s put me in a position to better help those who need it, be it family, friends, or just a local villager who’s struggling to put food on the table, than I ever was in while I worked in a city for a living.


I have struggled with anxiety for almost my entire adult life. As others have said Therapy is a fantastic choice. It helped me a lot. But it always felt like with all the progress we made there was a bit of a hump that I could never get over. For years I stagnated not making progress with a therapist. To be clear I am not saying the therapist was not worth it, it helped keep the existing progress in check, but we had hit a wall.

Then covid happened. I hit a point that I could no longer handle my anxiety on my own. Partially since I lost my outlets, but also just the added anxiety around covid. So I caved and finally talked to my doctor about medication. This was something I resisted for a while because I am not anti medicine by any means, but I am very cautious of being over medicated. But I did it, and honestly it was one of the best decisions I have made in a long time.

Now it took a few tries to find the right medicine, we had one particularly bad experience. But we started on a very low dose for all of this. Just a week ago we added an antidepressant to the mix and... I feel like I did when I was 18/19. I feel like myself again that I never thought I would. A change that I just chalked up to "being an adult". I am getting enjoyment out of things that... I really missed.

So I don't want to say you should dive head first into being medicated. But with what you are describing, it might be worth talking to your doctor about a very low dose of something just to help you while you talk to a therapist.

Mental Health is horribly stigmatized, we need to take care of ourselves.

On the note of therapy, don't be afraid to try a few therapists at first. It may take you a few tries to find someone you click with.


99% of the world's population would happily trade with you, just focus on this.


I'm not comparing my life with someone so far away from my life as there is just no relation.

And besides that, we are the group of people who have the best chance to see the bigger picture due to our good life's.its not helping me if I know that the person in china has air pollution and other issues and is busy with there also stressful life's and is too busy to see climate change

Also while I care about bio diversity there are plenty of people who don't.

Should I now stop caring? Probably not.


> I'm not comparing my life with someone so far away from my life as there is just no relation.

The person so worse off may not be so far away as you imagine.


I don't want to assume this isn't true. Don't get me wrong but I'm avg I think it's true.

When we were in Iran I met people who are open and modern and like everyone else I know.

But then you have plenty of people who wash there close in the river, are highly religios etc.


As someone who suffers from anxiety and bipolar disorder, and who has been ridiculed as not having real problems because of having worked in tech at high-paying companies--although I always got fucked over because of my disability and merely-middle social class (and being 40 IQ points smarter than the bosses exacerbated, rather than ameliorating, the social difference)--I can say with confidence that this is not a helpful comment, and not what OP needs to hear.

Also, I don't think it's true. Most people don't want improved material circumstances as much as they want dignity and peace of mind. Yes, most people in the world are objectively poor and would benefit a lot from having more money; still, the idea that people are obsessed with material gain or envy is endemic to the West under capitalism but not universal. They would not "trade lives". It's the same as with refugee crises and mass migration--they don't want to leave their homelands and families, but have no other choice.


Look into cognitive therapy / rebt, go see a therapist, and read up on it yourself. You can see it as a valuable activity both on a personal level, for your future and your family, as for your professional future. So appreciate working on that aspect of life! (ask for a certification from your therapist, jk :P)

Because it seems like you need to reframe things. There is enough uncertainty in the world as it is. You are doing a commendable job it seems for yourself and your family, but you can't control everything. A little less thinking in opposites would go a long way. You seem to be chasing certainty.

Why not allocate some time to work on a social cause? Don't worry about optimization, just start with doing something. Also nothing wrong with 'just' taking care of your own family, they are an important part of this world too!


>I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics

Whatever site you're getting these ideas from, cut that out of your life. Especially if its coming from opinions of random crazy people in the comments.


It's really nice that you care so much. I had a similar problem, worried everything around me might come tumbling down. This was 10 years ago. Over time I just stopped caring and started living my life. Then war in Europe broke out and it all came back. I almost emigrated with my whole family because of my reflex. In the end I almost had an anxiety attack thinking about what the hell am I doing to my family and why - because Russians might come? I burned out one night and the next morning I decided I am not going anywhere. It felt like someone removed a million tons off of my chest. In the end the Russians turned out to be totally incompetent and (at least for now) they weren't coming for me.

You can't control everything (actually there are very few things you CAN control). But there is one thing that is in your control, and that is you. If you feel like you are losing control, go and talk to someone - after all, what is the money good for if you are not well.


If your primary anxiety is related to providing for the people around you and the potential that it all comes crashing down maybe start figuring a way to start a business that incorporates your concern for science and people while helping the planet, helping the poor, without political extremity and not alienating the youth. Maybe that’s something far more boring than your full stack work. A hydroponic organic farm that you hire your family to run that in the worst of times is self sufficient, if it’s a possibility where you live, a franchise of a restaurant you enjoy and don’t find objectionable. Nice things, hobbies, vacations and the like might feel empty for you without meaningful work, 45 hours a week is a lot of billable time, plus the additional career development. Maybe cut out the professional development, work half as much as a dev and devote that new free time to the things you really care about and Give yourself the time to let an idea blossom.


Work life can pull you away from discovering yourself - that's like trying to move through life on an unsound foundation - very anxiety inducing.

It won't slow down. The future is an imaginary reality based on artificial souls and imagination. You don't want to go through life being blown about in the wind you need to discover your base-truth; To not be tricked into thinking you are less than these things.

Luke 9:58 - Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

https://mullikine.github.io/posts/the-tapestry-of-truth/

External so-called truth is the issue. Anxiety is caused by being manipulated and being blown about without rest, I believe.

Consensus truth, pragmatic truth, coherence truth (or incoherence truth: Justin Trudeau), constructivist truth - these truths do not take into consideration what is your personal truth.


You are stating you are living an unbalanced life. There are two issues:

-- you have to also take care of your health. It will be a costly and absurd mistake to neglect it, and consequently end up right in the situation you seem to be trying to avoid, of hindering your income. If you plan carefully, you also plan to preserve your abilities - which means, treating your health with the highest care - and ALL of it, not just bits, not picking between body and nerves, nutrition and rest. Manage yourself optimally, do not leave holes;

-- allocate time to assess your concerns properly. You cannot get out of a bad (apparently, cognitively passive) approach towards the frankly dire situation humanity is in, if you "feel" it instead of "considering" it lucidly: if something is a concern to you, examine it. Reasonably, you cannot swamp yourself in the fear of so general ideas: study your enemy properly, if you want to be prepared.


I am/was similar. My solution was to earn enough money to for "lean FIRE". Since I got to that level, my motivation for the grind and tolerance of job-induced bullshit started rapidly declining. Currently, I do not work, but am still productive - I improve my cooking skills (saves money on eating out) or do some hobby with hopes of creating a small income stream off it. This is so much healther than doing more grind in tech so that I can add another $100k to my stash. In the end, my money may run out before I die and I'll end up poor at 80 yo, but that is such a distant and uncertain scenario that doing something I hate (I've grown to mostly have coding jobs) for the sake of protecting against it is just not worth it.

The key here is learning to enjoy living relatively frugally, if you haven't already. If you like living large, you'll be slave to tech jobs for a long time.


We live in a world with over 100 billion galaxies, each with over 100 billion stars. Life is billions of years old and billions of humans have lived before us. We live in an extremely well-off time, relatively speaking. Anxiety is a powerful emotion developed primarily for much less secure circumstances (eg, past few million years). It may be helpful to know that anxiety is natural, common and beneficial— but also that it is a self-inflicted trick of the ego. There are many systematic self development techniques for achieving positive emotions. I find it helpful to accept where I am (“I am good. I am worthy”) and to accept my desire for more (“I know what I want and I know I am worthy of it”). I try to experience pleasure in the anticipation of getting what I want (rather than feeling anxiety in not having what I want). It is hard to trust— but, learning to trust — that is itself the work!


Congratulations on your awareness and reaching out for help. Asking for help is the opposite of giving up.

Just this week a client told me that despite the external world crashing down around them, crypto vaporzing the majority of their net worth, and major uncertainty, our work together has in just a few sessions given them a deep sense of calm and confidence and capacity to take on these new challenges.

Here is a frame that has been helpful for me and my clients (I’m the personal coach to some of the most interesting and kind hearted Unicorn technical Founders in the world).

What if what you’re calling “feelings” are actually exiled parts of yourself that are returning now exactly because you have the space and resources (internally and externally) to integrate them back into who you are?

What if it’s like you’ve reached a stage in your personal heros journey that requires you pickup these capacities before you can move on to the next challenges?

What if instead of trying to “get rid of them”, which is mirroring what culture did to these parts of you previously, you were to WELCOME and invite in the feelings like old friends, wise teachers or gurus?

Could you breathe into the feelings, journal, ask them what they are here to teach you or what they need?

Could you give them voice?

Could you take them into a Breathwork practice?

And ideally, could you get support of a mentor who can help guide your integration?

Is it possible that on the other side is a much more whole, loving compassionate version of you?

Could doing this work also put you in the best position to be able to help solve the challenges you see around you?

- Happy to drop in with you for 15 minutes sometime and share other tools and resources more deeply.

http://AnthonyDavidAdams.com/15 if you want to book a call.


I think anxiety is an unusual mental issue because it can seem completely rational. There are things in life to be worried about right? At the same time, just because it can seem rational, doesn't mean it is necessary. We would all worry if we can't afford food but worries about things that are way beyond our control/understanding should dominate our thoughts.

So I would suggest, as others have, seeing a trained Therapist and trying to get to the root of the fears that drive your anxiety. I personally got over some very deep-rooted insecurities that were mainly related to trying to please people because my dad was never "pleased". I didn't think I had a problem and had the therapy because of opportunity, not need. Changed by life. The outside stuff didn't change but my ability to deal with it did.

Good luck!


Sometimes some long term vision or commitment can help. Set yourself multiple personal goals with a time horizon of 2-10 years. This gives purpose and sets the focus on what you decided is important. These goals can be split into yearly and monthly subgoals. Again, these goals give purpose. I would not go more short term, they should be realistic but big, and something you work/play/enjoy/fight towards to.

Some random ideas: Build/buy a perfect house, have enough money for X years runaway but no more, create a local organization, spend X amount to help locals in Y, travel for Z months, live in place Y for Z months, create a self sustaining organization on any topic, address climate change in your area by doing X, create something that is bigger than you ever could do alone, or destroy something big.


I felt similar things. Therapy helped me a lot.

I got the following from "Zen and the art of saving the planet" by thich nhat hanh. It helped me, perhaps it helps you too. I recommend the book, but please give therapy a shot. You're not broken, but it's important to get a good perspective on the situation. That can help you shift from feeling overwhelmed and helpless to feeling empowered and inspired to help (in whatever way works best for you).

The tnh part: Realize that in nature everything has a beginning and an end. Even things we consider to be permanent/static. The grand canyon wasn't always there. It was formed, and it will not last forever.

The same applies to our society and to humanity in general. Reflect on that. If humanity ceases to exist in its current form, perhaps it will make place for something better.


All you need is a simple formula: Figure out roughly how much time and headspace you need for pleasure/leisure/quality time with people, idleness etc. The rest of your time is spent on providing for you and yours, then bettering the world, in that order.

Do these things and realize that if bad things nevertheless happen, they were always beyond your control. Work on not stressing about that which is beyond your control. Don't suffer tragedies twice over.

If providing for you and yours does not leave enough room for happiness, you are in Crisis Mode. Happiness will not be achievable in this time. In this mode, your highest priority after doing what needs doing is to exit the crisis situation.

Disclaimer: this is somewhat tongue in cheek. I do believe this is the right way to live, but it's very much easier said than done.


You're literally making 10 times more than the average salary and I'm guessing you have a high five figures or low six figures in savings/investments. Relax.

Take a month or two off your day job and side gig, don't read anything about current events, log off social media and learn something that's not related to software engineering at all.

Try woodworking, sowing or gardening/farming, maybe buy a cheap car that barely runs and fix it to pass inspection.

You'll get out of the wheel of anxiety AND learn skills you may need if "everything comes crashing down".

Oh, and like everyone else has already said: get a therapist. You seem like you're going round in circles in your own head and spiraling to a dark(er) place. Having someone who just listens and doesn't have a stake in the game themselves is REALLY helpful.


You say it yourself - you should not feel anxious given your situation, but you do. You need to address your baseline anxiety. Anxiety always finds some reason "why" (i.e. current instability, war...) but often the root cause is deeper and personal - I am speaking from a personal experience.

Consider therapy. Other things might help as well. Sleep more. Rest more. Work less. Find time for some physical activity. But at least in my case, finding and addressing the root cause(s) was the key (followed by years of un-learning of some unhealthy mental patterns).


Unpopular opinion: I don’t think we are destroying the planet. There is global warming and there is doom and gloom climate change perpetuated by the media. ESG corporations are spinning this hard too.


Science says otherwise, and I'm not saying this to cause further anxiety, but the picture is crystal clear. In some ways we already did destroy the planet, the biodiversity crisis we are facing appears to be irreversible. In the last 50 years 70% of the wildlife have been lost. We are officially in a mass extinction event. The IPCC climate models paint a grim picture without accounting for carbon-cycle feebacks. There is a major, global drought underway. The temperatures are rapidly climbing. Extreme weather events are increasing in severity. Our entire economy is wildly unsustainable as it is, without including billions of people who yet to get their opportunity of a better life.

Then there is Rupert Murdoch and his propaganda empire suggesting that it's all a liberal conspiracy, which is where you got your information. Don't look up.


Recommend watching this Google Talk. The way information bubbles up from experts right down to media through several layers of summarization and omission of facts is dubious and lacks critical oversight.

https://youtu.be/s6b7K1hjZk4

Your enthusiasm and blind trust is exactly what we don’t want in scientific inquiry. We want more skeptics when becoming a skeptic is considered politically motivated or otherwise.

Science only works when skepticism is fundamentally a feature, not a bug.

Prediction models have error bars that have wild std deviations, yet by the time people like yourself consume information through Climate activists, it has gone through about 7 layers of abstractions. Recommend reading Alex Esptein’s books on Climate alarmicism.

What I can accept so far is that there is some global warming due to human activity. It’s impact and severity is still questionable and not conclusive even by the experts of Climate science from NOAA, if you actually read the publications.


I'm not an expert in climate change, but I read a lot of science paper (mostly cryptography and behavior science) and I understand how science works. I understand it's process, it's limitations. I also see the writing on the wall. I don't like it, I'm not enthusiastic about it, I don't place blind trust in it. It's there, whether I like it or not. There are a lot of uncertainties about the details, but the big picture is clear.

Alex Epstein is a propagandist. His only activity is casting doubt, scepticism. He is being paid by companies trying to control the narrative, because their bottom line depends on freely polluting the planet, without consequences. He is a puppet so that powerful people can fill their pockets, while accussing everyone else of the same. He literally doesn't care about the facts, and you are not supposed to poke holes in his theories. He is there to muddy the waters to absolve people from consequences.

These people only care about themselves. People often fall for their shtick for emotional reasons. Some people are more sensitive to uncertainty and fear, so they latch into beliefs and views that reintroduce certainty as a defense mechanism. The propagandists take advantage of this by first creating uncertainty (making it harder to know what's real, who you can trust) and then offering a way out.

I'm not offering a way out. There is no obvious solution. I'm not selling anything to you.


I agree with you about the first paragraph. Do you think we need more Climate skeptics especially when there is a severe lack of them, and when there is an excessive dogmatism – i.e., you cannot challenge the status quo with the best of intentions and using the same materials/sources, there is a cultural pressure to conform and there is a dire need for strong arming climate catastrophy and apocolyptic motifs?

I hope we can find common ground that when there is 100% dogmatism and 0% skepticism, it is not science anymore. It is like the medieval church.

I take this further in my personal life without engaging in conspiracies and bad faith. Whenever there is an immense social pressure to conform to anything, let alone science, I get increasingly skeptic. There is a wisdom of crowds when a healthy amount skepticism is allowed. There is a madness of crowds when very little skepticism is allowed.


Science is models of reality. As we gain more understanding we increase the precision of our models. When we do the previous models don't become invalid, like Newton's laws of motions are not invalid because of quantum physics, indeed they are considered an approximation to it.

The same goes for climate science, our models are increasing in precision. The social pressure is however in the opposite direction than you think. Nobody wants to be seen as crazy, and there is a pressure from the institutions to tone it down. Often the most conservative models are presented as plausible, selected by how actionable they are. Even the plausible models are unpleasant, not because scientists are crazy, but because the situation is that bad, and potentially much worst. Whether it's fixable, or can only be mitigated, or we can only try to adapt, it doesn't matter because we are not doing any of it. We are banking in everything turning out just fine, even if we continue pumping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere indiscriminately. This behavior is a suicidal one.

What social pressure would exist to deal with the problem head-on anyway, we don't work like that.

The real power is not being dogmatically sceptical, it's evaluation. Thinking about things and their relationships. There is a difference between poking holes, and throwing the whole tapestry away for the sake of being sceptical.


Thanks for a good discussion.


Time and consequently health are the only things that matter, but killing yourself to make more than $80k a year is pointless.

You need a new perpective on life. Watch Ed Helm's Cornell speech and internalize it's message. You need to be foolish. Not irresponsible, but foolish. It involves disengaging your analytical mind from time to time, and letting go of your paranoid predictions of the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPnAnRsqia0


Tell your family you won a holiday in a competition. Spend a week or two of earnings on that family holiday where you can all hang out and just spend time without the grind of work. Hopefully without any knowledge of what the holiday cost, they can appreciate the experience without trying to decide whether what it cost was worth it. And hopefully with your valued family around, you can enjoy cooking/dining/exploring together and worry less about the dramas of the world which are out of your control.


Listen to the jokers telling you you're worrying about things out of your control. You have access to things others don't. Remember your gifts. You can use them to transform into someone who can have a more effective influence on the world around you. The issue is we've been socially/culturally/linguistically programmed with busted mental models caked with denial. This cake is always made up of literal lies, like "I am white" or "There exists a sustainable way to cling to life without slowly killing oneself" or "A comment on the internet can't possibly be the stimulus for a heart attack."

What's the finite set of universal human needs? How can we show this? One way is to compile a list from all the lists online and see what needs you're not meeting. Work on getting those met. Sounds like you've got some acceptance going unmet, as well as some mourning. Do you have effective grieving strategies? Have you cried through envisioning the death of the last human? What about extinction by asteroid? There's a whole world of death to explore and accept! This is why we're starting a traveling circus meant for healing, grieving, and more.

Anxiety is normal for any beliefs out of alignment with reality/nature like "There's nothing we can do about it" or "I'm but one person." And no matter what your beliefs, if you have a chronically unmet need for something and you're making plans that continue to deny it, the parts of the body needing that thing may naturally get anxious.

Money literally isn't a human need, so if you think a collapse is coming and you don't know how to live without money, part of you is probably aware you can get pretty screwed pretty quick in that scenario. So go learn that. Consider a change in career. Have you considered running away to a weird traveling donation-driven circus, becoming a death clown, and learning what it's like to have 0 money and not feel anxious? Cause that's where I'm at and I wish this peace for all. The Caravan Stage Company has also been rolling this way for decades. Maybe check them out? If you do this kind of work on yourself, you may become a person who's equipped to help family through anything. That's the journey I'm on, or so I hope. I suspect I can show it works mathematically.


A billion terrible things are happening out there, and a billion other terrible things could happen to you in the future, but how many of those terrible things are happening to you right now?


> I can't relax thinking every hour spent watching netflix is in a way costing me ~110$.

Sleeping 6 hours will cost you a lot more, but you're fine with that, right?

> everything could come crashing down in a couple of years and I'll need the money

If everything comes crashing down, your money will be useless. It will be inflated away. You dont really need the money though, you earn 10x what your neighbour earns and they are 10x less worried... maybe you should re-evaluate the value of money in life, you give it too much importance.


> So I work, always, because I'm anxious

I think most people are like this. It's the religion of the modern age. It is a meditation, that takes us away from our underlying fears. And there's plenty of reasons to be afraid. We are all poor fragile monkeys here, any one of us could get wiped out randomly at any moment. How can you be ok with that? You can't. And so we search for a release. For most of us it is work. Of course there's many other things people try: money, food, sex, drugs...


No offense, but don’t get addicted to success. It’s very transient in our lives and doesn’t help you sustain through all the hills and valleys life brings.

Diversify in more areas than finance. Work on yourself. Get healthy, physically, mentally, and spiritually. Turn off the news and get off the devices begetting your anxiety and stress. Don’t worry, be happy.

Worrying about the past or future gets you stuck. Focus on the present, this moment in time. Believe in your own thoughts and you’ll find your own genius.


Turn off the news and social media. That's it.

Edit: Therapy as suggested by others also. Still, turning off the news and social media can have positive effects at little to no costs.


Stop living to work. Stop working for money. Stop letting others determine what a good life is.

If you like watching Netflix 24/7, by all means, do it. If you want to make a change in the world, just begin. If you feel you're in a work treadmill, quit.

Find out who you are and what you want to do with your time. Don't just get lazy and build a skill tree that lets you win the game others have made for you. That's boring and hollow, and you're right to be anxious about it.


I’m really sorry you’re struggling with so much fear and anxiety. I’ve been there. Therapy and medication can help. I’m guessing you don’t get much exercise or good sleep. I had to focus on therapy and medication before I could try to get more exercise and good sleep but maybe for you, you can try to exercise and get better sleep right away. But definitely find a therapist.

And maybe talk to a financial advisor, if you’re anxious about money maybe they can reassure you.


My 2c: Your anxiety isn’t because of current uncertainties of the world. Perhaps it has something to do with your childhood or early environment.

Have you considered seeing a therapist?


Do you have a significant other or friend network? Might I suggest putting down the work and computer and go out? If you're pulling in 20k/month, just keep banking it and after your 9/10 hours of work a day get out. Find someone to spend time with outside of your family. Platonic or non-platonic, just someone that isn't YOU and the echo chamber of your family. It'll make you feel much better.


Be glad you are alive now and not 100 years ago before they invented modern medicine. Back then they had real problems and yet civilization did not end.


I know you might mean well, but this isn't a nice response to someone asking for help.

You're effectively saying "you don't have any problems". It's an abusive tactic in relationships.


No, it’s not saying that he hasn’t problems… it’s putting this problem in the right perspective! Instead of seeing how bad the world is let’s focus on how much it did improve!


That's literally the same thing!


Drink less coffee/tea. Get sleep and begin an exercise program. Take a walk outside and get some sun.

"Life is a bitch and then you die." - anonymous


The deceptive thing about anxiety is that it leads you to believe you can do something to change an outcome. Even if that was true, the fear behind anxiety leads to despair and mistakes and ultimately tragedy. Having reasonable concern and making the best decision you can is good but anxiety is a force that pulls you so that your concern is beyond reason and your decisions less than ideal.


That’d be a rather ineffective survival mechanism if that were the case. Panic leads to irrational behavior but anxiety is there to alert you of something needing attention.


There's anxiety (a feeling of nervousness or unease, in presence of a real or perceived threat or danger), which is normal and useful - you feel anxious before giving a public speech, or asking someone out. Panic is a stronger version of anxiety, but it can be justified and also be useful - you will feel it if you get attacked by an enraged dog or when you see a man running towards you with a knife.

Then there's Anxiety Disorder, which is a mental condition. There's many subtypes. They prevent the individual from having a normal life, and/or are uncontrollable. They are not useful. One anxiety disorders manifest in Panic Attacks, which can feel similar to a heart attack and happen seemingly randomly.

> ineffective survival mechanisms

Yes, when anxiety gets "ineffective" it has become Anxiety Disorder.

A healthy dose of fear of being run over by a car when crossing the street is useful and normal. Not being able to get out of your house because you are afraid of cars is a disorder.


Couldn't have said it better. Pain is a critical sense for example, but lingering and debilitating pain is not useful, pain killers exist for a reson as do anxiety medications.

What i meant in the original comment was that anxiety and fear don't just go away they have a tendency to develop an addiction (for lack of a better word)


Judging his situation as an anxiety disorder is the mistake here.


By working harder and harder for the digital economy you are actively contributing the problems you've listed. Stacking up piles of money is the last thing you should do if you care about pollution, war and digital alienation.

Take a look at game theory and the prisoner dilemma if you haven't already. The "me first" mentality is killing us. The textbook example is gun ownership. You may feel personally safer by owning a gun but places with more guns have more shootings. So in reality by owning a gun you're actually increasing your chances of getting shot.

The digital economy is at the epicenter of the issues you've listed. It's a resource sink generating a lot of pollution, has always been closely linked to the war industry and is a factor of increased inequality and mental health issues.

My recommendation would be that instead of trying to escape through consumerism, you include activities in your life that try to address the problems you've identified. Support local organic food supply, join non-profit organizations helping the poor, host war refugees, spread knowledge about environmental destruction, corruption of your political leaders, digital alienation, etc. These are just examples, do what every floats your boat. By starting to fight against problems that make you anxious instead of trying to flee from them, you will feel better. It's also important that you team up with other people that have similar concerns.


This is not correct, at any level.

1. "By working harder and harder for the digital economy you are actively contributing the problems you've listed. Stacking up piles of money is the last thing you should do if you care about pollution, war and digital alienation."

No, you can work in the digital economy for change. "Stacking" money, or saving is not the last thing to do if you care about pollution, it's not me first, it's about being a conscious human being able to plan ahead akin to storing food for winter. Exhausting your runway, savings and comparing it to Pollution, war and digital alienation is the same as poisoning the well. Saving money is financial independence.

2. "Take a look at game theory and the prisoner dilemma if you haven't already. The "me first" mentality is killing us. The textbook example is gun ownership. You may feel personally safer by owning a gun but places with more guns have more shootings. So in reality by owning a gun you're actually increasing your chances of getting shot."

Game theory =/= Me first, while the prisoner dilemma is introductory, you're thinking it in the wrong way of juxtaposing it as a net benefit and someone loses "e.g. I say they did it, and I'll be free" vs collaboration, it's not binary.

3. "The digital economy is at the epicenter of the issues you've listed. It's a resource sink generating a lot of pollution, has always been closely linked to the war industry and is a factor of increased inequality and mental health issues." Disagree, it's also the most efficient economy we humans have created thus. That's why it's centerstage, whereas before geographic arbitrage was strong now people all around the world can communicate semi freely, if not entirely free and conduct business. Saying it's the epicenter, is comparing todays Internet to the postal service of the past and men on horses riding personally for 1:1 messages - how was business, trade and war conducted before? Was it all 100% that looking back? No.


Slightly off-topic, but since a lot of people here mention therapy: I'm curious if there any recommendations / advices regarding online therapy? Would you recommend any website or anyone in particular? I have been thinking about going to therapy for a while, but haven't found any good recommendations for a local therapist so I want to try something online.


If you live in Switzerland (or I guess also outside, but not sure if your insurance will cover it then), you can give Aepsy (https://aepsy.com/) a try (disclaimer: The founder is a good friend of mine, but it's a great service)


I'd be happy to pay for it out of pocket, but it seems like aepsy is German only? I'm afraid that wont work for me, but perhaps someone else here finds it valuable. thank you


While the website is in German, you can select that you want a an English speaking therapist once you start the process ("Jetzt Psychologin finden").


I live in my small world. I’m aware of what’s happening out there but genuinely don’t care unless it comes down to something I can change (without too much effort on my part), like voting, sponsoring a child’s education, planting trees, writing to my congressman etc. I have a lot of hobbies, a nice family, I eat very well and travel a lot. It’s a good life.


The words below were written several thousand years ago. They remain relevant for you in your situation.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes%20...


Talk to a psychiatrist.

Ignore all medical advice on this site.


Go running.

Then read Shoe Dog by Phil Knight and go running again.

If you have gotten unfit the book will have you laughing with the guy at all he had thrown at him and then you'll find that you get over yourself the next run you take.

Any other books that people know about this positive?

I've been totally kicked up my rear by Knight's book, in the best possible way.


Shoe Dog changed my life completely. It is the most inspiring book I’ve ever come across. Contrarily, I want to get off of HN. It’s full of depressing malaise and never about qualities of life that I want to pursue: hard work, perseverance and persistence. HN sometimes feel like I’m browsing r/antiwork.

Phil Knight’s thrust in life and the way he constantly ratcheted himself through tough times is vividly captured in Shoe Dog. Highly recommend it.


I wrote this up a few days ago to help remind myself what to do when things get bad. It's not really meant to be public, so please don't share. Maybe some of these techniques will help.

https://anxiety.vos.lol/


But I do recommend therapy first. You can use some online service like BetterHelp or one of the competitors. Better to give money to an individual though. But whatever is easiest for you.


Have you tried eating a good meal before bed, sleeping a full night of sleep or two, and seeing if you feel the same at that point. The things that you feel anxious about after putting your body and mind in the best state possible are the things to prioritize.


It sounds like you have a lot of empathy, but could improve on your compassion. There is willingness to act in compassion. What is a small thing that you could do to improve the world for others and yourself?

Loving-kindness or Thonglen meditation might help.


You've already identified the root cause of your problem: anxiety.

All your concerns are valid, but they shouldn't prevent you from living your life. So when you're ready to start the (other) work, consider seeking professional help and start therapy.


I used to feel similar. Then I became more disciplined about working fixed hours and started going for long walks and it helped. Sometimes all the anxiousness can be fixed by simple lifestyle changes. Wishing the best to you.


Advice on this sort of thing is always contextual.

> So I work, always, because I'm anxious I won't be able to provide for the people around me, my sister won't earn enough to feed her family, my mom won't be able to retire even though her work is killing her, my dad's small business will be ruined if the economy collapses...

This indicates a great attitude. You have a massive sense of personal responsibility, not only over your own life, but of your loved ones. You are what high-performing, generous cultures are made of.

So, perhaps some appropriate advice for you, whose sense of responsibility for everything is overwhelming, is to limit your intake of news. News is becoming more extreme in order to pull attention from digital alternatives. I don't have a good news source to recommend, other than perhaps the Financial Times, that won't exacerbate this trait of yours.

And although some things are tough - we need to get on to sustainable energy and packaging; ongoing wars are still just as nightmarish as they always were - what is considered poor in the 21st century is beyond the dreams of people in the past. Every step of progress, even while it makes some people rich, enhances the lives of millions and (occasionally) billions. The great threat of Facebook is so easy to turn off we could all do it tomorrow by uninstalling it. Compare that to the pre-polio vaccine era, before dentistry and analgesics, the constant real violence of the past, both in war and domestically in pre-police times, the pre-GMO food sources that would've meant a billion starving.

Now a single violent incident can get national attention in some countries, when it was a way of life less than 200 years ago.

So it's not perfect, but if you think things are getting worse, I have to disagree with your news sources. Choose them carefully.


Yes, it's all about the perspective, basically do what you can to improve the world and then just enjoy the ride.


I worship God, have put my faith in Jesus, and I trust in his divine providence.

If your hope relies on humanity figuring it out and working together, your anxieties are only going to get worse over time.


you are already doing quite well and have savings to wade through any problems. So, relax a bit.

Two suggestions:

a) Read Matt Ridley's Rational optimist : This shows the arc of progress and provides strong arguments on how our future will be better

b) https://thomasjbevan.substack.com/p/all-news-is-bad-news : Basically asks you not to read the news at all, unless there is something that you can use a year from now.


Make for a plan B and C and chill out. I have a few weeks of food reserve and can sail away in an instant if things turns ugly, with the mean to feed my family straight from the ocean.


Wow, having an ocean near by is great. Also made a food reserves from when crazy times started in 2020 along with 2022 extra supply for possible thermonuclear war :)


I have no time to be anxious. I have a job to do, family to feed and a career to build.

Really, if you find time to reflect on your anxiousness — consider yourself in a very privileged situation.


I suggest reading Four Thousand Weeks. If you’re inclining towards religion, read Bob Goff. If not, read about Buddhism and stoicism. Read a bunch. It helps gain perspective.


If you won't try therapy, maybe consider 'better living through chemistry' and get yourself a xanax prescription.


Stop watching the news, you'll be fine


First,

Do you kn ow what feeding a declining asset is? It's not just buying such things as Cars then paying the sunk operational costs. It happens when you charge hourly and form business models with that feature.

First step is to find some way to package something that is zero costs in copying as a service.

Second step is to market that new product.

Third, mediation helps with anxiety

My biases:

1. Recovered ADHD sufferer 2. Former hourly gig person now working on a service style model of software business models


Focus on the things that you can control and change, and don't fret about the things you can't.


don't invest the entire remaining amount, a good amount of it should be cash

you should be less anxious if you hold more cash


Praying the Psalms has changed my life.


There are problems in the world, there always have been, and there always will be. I share your subjective impression that there are more problems now than there used to be, but that's a fallacy: it just means that we're paying closer attention now than when we were younger.

The above paragraph isn't intended to assure you that all problems are trivial or can be safely ignored. Just because we survived the Cold War doesn't mean that whatever upcoming international conflicts face us will end as benignly as that one did. As they say "Past Performance Is No Guarantee of Future Results."

However, the important message is that you can live your life despite the ongoing problems in the world. You can appreciate the time with your family, a good meal, a beautiful sunset. You owe it to yourself to enjoy those things, and not take the burden of the entire world on yourself. It requires confidence to believe that you'll face future challenges when they come, not before. It requires some discipline to compartmentalize your immediate, day-to-day existence away from what we read about in the news or on Twitter, but I think it's worthwhile. Meditation may help. Talking about your feelings may help.


That hit home. Ouch.


Raw fatty meat. Calms my anxiety pretty well.


I stumbled upon this insightful comment in Reddit and I think you might benefit from it [1]:

-- hi OP. Hey i am 66 (I still can't believe that number, haha. Luckily I am still super healthy). I was in 2nd grade when president Kennedy was shot in the head, live on national television. His brain flew out into his wife's lap. It set off a wave of assassinations (president's brother, MLK, etc). I grew up knowing that the yellow and black triangles symbol meant "fallout shelter" and we were supposed to go there in case of nuclear attack. We did "duck and cover" drills in elementary school. Hide under your desks. Once, they sent us home with pamphlets about nuclear attack preparation. OK don't laugh, the pamphlet said "wear loose white clothing in case of nuclear detonation. Don't look directly at the explosion." They flew warplanes overhead once per week after bedtime, faster than the speed of sound, and we would hear the "sonic boom" which scared the crap out of me. It rattled the windows, shook the house. People were truly panicked, using their life savings to dig holes in their backyard, and building and equipping "bomb shelters" to try to survive nuclear fallout. It didn't feel like that stuff was ever resolved, it just faded from attention, it was buried by other distractions both negative and positive. Wasn't too much later the government had a giant meltdown that scared the crap out of everyone. It was right as I came of voting age, haha! Oh my god. Watergate, it was called. Huge corruption scandal, everyone was just breathless with shock and disgust and fear. At that time people around me trusted the government to be solid enough to remain (seemingly) just, and we learned it could seemingly recover, at least back then. Around this time we were also in a totally illegal war, and we had a freaking lottery to decide which 18-year-olds would be forced to go fight the Viet Cong in the jungles of southeast asia. High school grads coming back in body bags, kids running away to Canada to avoid getting roped into the army. And hippies happened, communes, free love, weed -- all of which caused the older ones to lose their minds because society looked to them to be coming apart. Some of us died. Most of us lived. You are living the stories you will tell young people, when its your turn to comfort them. None of this is to minimize what you are sensing around you! You are awake and aware, you are not overreacting. I am so sorry. I wish I could just listen to you for a couple hours. You are having one of those wakeup moments. We all will be each having our own wakeup moments. Our job is to comfort each other when we feel like this. We will all adapt and do our human best to cope with whats coming. Help each other not freeze in place, but take the most intelligent and resourceful steps we can muster. The system is unable to help, its unreliable --

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/v9l0j6/i...


I'll give you mine perspective where I happen to completely be the opposite of you.

> Given my income and my economic situation I shouldn't feel anxious, yet I can't relax thinking every hour spent watching netflix is in a way costing me ~110$.

I make about $3000 net per month. I work 4 days per week. Currently working remote, I'm also currently single (since very recent). I'm in another country. I take long walks, I meet people, I chill hardcore, it's nice. I spend about $2500 by not even thinking about money and making very unoptimized decisions. The way I view it, life is good, especially because the place I work for also provides a pension and there is a small state pension. If the market goes completely sideways, I'm a software developer! I'll get by. I'll teach high schoolers math (or any other subject) if I have to.

My life feels like a vacation. I need the 4 day work week in order to stay mentally sharp. I don't want to mentally decline, it's a health thing. I happen to make money with it as well. I don't fully like doing it (software engineering), but I don't hate it either. IMO that's the sweet spot, it constantly reminds me to have something of a work ethic. Quite frankly, I love the whole situation.

> So when I don't have any more work for the week, I work on my hard and soft skills through certifications so I can up even more my hourly rate.

I also work on my soft skills! I do it through dating. I meet people while sitting remote working in a cafe, or when I go on my daily walks. People come from all walks of life. I guess you learn totally different soft skills though ;-)

Hard skills? I learn it when the time requires me to. I've seen so many languages, while there's a lot to learn for me, there is at the same time nothing new under the sun. When I started out in my computer science bachelor it felt I was too stupid. I had a very hard time wrapping my head around programming. I've never had those difficulties since, learning stuff now simply takes time.

How can I live like this you might ask? Well, it's better for me to be chill than to be all riled up. I provide a bigger benefit by being relaxed, positive and helpful to other people. I know the world is falling apart (just a bit, not too much IMO, read Factfulness, it's written by a Norwegian economist, he has an awesome ted talk too [1]).

I agree to a large extent with the rest, can't provide a counter point to that. Feel free to email me if you want someone to talk to, as a curious fellow HN'er that is :)

Email is in my profile.

[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_the_best_stats_you_ve...


Given my income and my economic situation I shouldn't feel anxious, yet I can't relax thinking every hour spent watching netflix is in a way costing me ~110$.

It doesn't work this way.

Money is a fiction we created, a way to measure debts and legal liabilities. (Barter economies never existed; money emerges very quickly, and is used for this purpose.) Time is real, and it's yours. You deserve time to relax. If you spend every hour optimizing for work productivity, you'll burn yourself out and have "unplanned downtime"... trust me, that's not what you want. Better to work at a reasonable pace--in the long run, no one does more than ~1500 hours per year of meaningful work anyway--and avoid the stochasticity of unplanned downtime.

I work on my hard and soft skills through certifications so I can up even more my hourly rate.

There's nothing wrong with that. You've got to do what's best for you. No one eles will.

It's a never ending race, I've been playing this game since 2016, finding new ways to earn more, not because I'm passionate about it, but because I'm anxious everything could come crashing down in a couple of years and I'll need the money.

I hate saying this, but it could. Disaster can happen to any of us, whether personal in scale (sickness) or global (sickness again, because COVID-19 isn't necessarily over). Everyone is in the same boat, even the very rich (Bezos or Musk could get cancer). The negative outliers are dreadful. An air conditioner could fall on you tomorrow. The probability of each of your atoms quantum tunneling into the far reaches of the universe, although so infinitesimally small it's ridiculous, is technically nonzero.

This is probably an unpopular suggestion, but studying religion (don't feel pushed to pick one; study many) often helps. For my part, I think Buddhism has the most accurate model of mind and impermanence, Judaism has the strongest theology and ethics, and Christianity has a great model in Jesus (even if I don't consider him to be messiah, nor believe he considered himself such) of how to live in the world. The ancients were smarter than we give them credit for.

I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics when it should be about science and people...

This is all true, but if you're not directly making it worse, then you shouldn't feel bad about it. If you're mining Bitcoin, you have something to feel bad about. If you're building websites for restaurants, you shouldn't feel guilty, because even though you are technically participating in capitalism--an objectively immoral system--you're also helping people (who, like you, need to eat) better their lives.

No one can predict the future. Will capitalism throw humanity off the rails? Or will it be overthrown? (And will such overthrow be a good thing, or will it be replaced by something worse?) No one knows the answers. All you can hold yourself responsible for is living one day at a time.

I've tried not caring, going to bars and restaurants and beautiful places in vacation, getting a new car, finding hobbies... but I can't pretend, I don't know how to cope anymore.

This never helps as much as it should. Hedonic adaptation happens fast. Read more, learn more, and while it's good to stay aware of the world and your role in it, this too can be overdone. You're not killing the planet every time you drive to the grocery store--at least, no more than lightning kills the planet when it starts a forest fire, as it has done for hundreds of millions of years--it's far, far more complicated than that and you can't hold yourself responsible for decisions made by others.


Drugs


You are living in a way that tries to "escape from" the world. Trying to work harder in the rat race so that you can have more savings, so that someday you can have a lot of things provided for. This is not wrong, exactly, but it only addresses a fraction of what a person needs to feel fulfilled. Wealth can be very consuming because you can be sitting there with 20 years of salary in the bank and still be saying "but what if something happens".

You've already succeeded in working hard - you are earning a lot(relatively) and studying a lot. The way to think about it now, and to position yourself in a way that makes you calmer and more able to help those around you, is to start to live towards studying a problem. The problem is not a work or business problem, or an exam question, or even academic research. The problem is how to live well going forward. What an esteemed person would be in the society of 2035. What does their day look like? How do they spend time? What do they commute with? How do they stay involved with friends and family? Do they know their neighbors? And so on. And the answers you should give are not the cynical ones critiquing this moment, but answers you like and want to aspire to. Many things in life are age-old but are reshaped by the times. The times change what "right answers" look like. What is unique to these times is that those answers are no longer clearly defined: there is a fight everywhere you look. Disruption up and down.

When you go through these questions, and apply technology trends and emerging new norms on top as a guiding force, it stops being a money thing in any direct sense, but it also leads to money questions: "if this is the norm going forward, then that business won't make sense anymore, but these other ones will take its place." OK. But you don't have to feel compelled to be the person building it or investing in it or otherwise taking all the credit. You can aim for that, but credit is ultimately just the parts you find a way to get paid for; but even a passive, consumptive role is a way of voting towards the future you want, and you can vote for way more things in a passive way by doing or not doing them, leading by example.

For example, I decided that I am interested in micromobility after looking at the converging nature of EV tech, growing interest in expanding urban bike infrastructure, the growth of smartphone-based rental apps and the potential for AI tech to further refine and add more options to these services. What I did to act on this, after reading things about this industry and all that it's doing to change urban transit, was the most basic act: I subscribed to the local bikeshare service, got a cheap helmet, and started learning to ride a bike - today.

The benefit of that is that I become a changed person - I'm adapting to a future where it gets easier to ride around town on a bike or scooter. I can discuss the topic with confidence and introduce it to others. This prepares them for the future as well, and therefore - it calms me down; it puts everyone on a slightly safer and healthier trajectory if I add to the demand for these new options for getting around, instead of aspiring to luxury cars etc. I don't have to use it to "build wealth" in the abstract, because the literal stuff of wealth is in one's character by having agency over events, being in good health, being treated well, etc. Virtue ethics, as Aristotle taught.


I'm not gonna lie, copious amounts of quetiapine.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: