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Tell HN: I'm Afraid We're Shutting Down
1633 points by RBBronson123 on June 2, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 353 comments
So it’s with deep professional and personal sadness that I must announce my plans to shut down 70 Million Resources, Inc., the parent company of 70 Million Jobs (the 1st national, for-profit employment platform for people with criminal records) and Commissary Club (the first mobile social network for this population).

When I launched 70MR in 2016, I was motivated to build a company that could short circuit the pernicious cycles of recidivism in this country--cycles that destroy lives, tear apart families and decimate communities. I sought to disrupt the sleepy reentry industry by applying technology, focusing on data, employing an aggressive, accountable team, and moving with some urgency. And for the first time, approaching the challenge as a national, for-profit venture.

This approach, which I named “RaaS,” (Reentry as a Service), turned out to be wildly effective, and by the beginning of 2020, we were delivering on our mission of driving “double bottom line returns”: build a big, successful business and do massive social good. With the help of Y Combinator and nearly 1,500 investors, I assembled a team and got to work.

We succeeded in facilitating employment for thousands of deserving men and women and became operationally profitable.

However, the pandemic had other plans for us. When it hit in force in March 2020, companies made wholesale terminations of nearly all our people, and continued their halt in hiring for two years.

Our revenue dropped like a rock to almost nothing. I immediately responded by paring our expenses to the bone and began letting team members go. There was no opportunity to raise additional funding, so I began injecting my own money into the company—money I barely have—just to keep the lights on.

When the economy and job market began storming back, we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

It became obvious that we lacked the resources to weather this new storm while hoping and praying the world would normalize soon. (It still hasn’t.)

Our coffers are empty. We’ve incurred a relatively small amount of debt (that I personally guaranteed) that I hope to negotiate down. All employees have been paid what they were owed (except for me). I will explore sale of assets we hold.

On a personal note, I can’t tell you how grateful and humbled I’ve been that many would entrust their investment or business with me. For a person who’s done time in prison (me), it’s almost impossible to ask for someone’s trust. I have not yet forgiven myself for things I did which ultimately got me into trouble. But I will be eternally grateful to those that assisted me in my efforts to settle the score and win back my karma.

From the beginning I was blessed by an unbelievable team of smart, funny, passionate young people who shared my ambition to cause change. They stuck with me/us until the very end.

I’m most saddened by the millions of formerly incarcerated men and women who we won’t be able to help. These are some of the most sincere, honest, and heroic people I’ve ever met. It was my life’s honor to work with them.

I’m pretty sure I’ll continue my reentry work. Several prominent organizations have indicated their interests in me assuming a leadership role. I need to work, and I need to continue my work.

I’m so sorry for this outcome, despite the good we’ve done. I’m not sure we could have done anything differently or better, but ultimately, I take full responsibility. Needless to say, if you have any thoughts or suggestions, please don’t hesitate to reach out, here or at Richard@70MillionJobs.com.

This has been the greatest experience of my life; it couldn’t have happened without my getting a second chance.

Richard




This really bums me out.

I was a convicted felon at 18 years old, poor, living on the street.

It wasn't any government re-integration program that helped me, it was a random person I met in highschool.

I worked my way through everything -> college -> jobs -> startups -> lucky windfalls -> owning my own company. I've immigrated to Europe (3 times in the last 10 years technically), beating the legal issues each time.

And finally, after 17 years, I'm no longer a felon thanks to a pardon and expungement.

I really wish something like 70MR would stay up. Not everyone can be as lucky as me. Is there some place I can donate?


It's your type of understanding and fervor that's needed for a 70MR to move forward. Have you considered taking it over? Think about it. Sometimes you're the solution.


I haven't considered taking it over until your comment just now. I've always told myself I'd write a book and do some talks at some point in my life, but I've been heads down either trying to survive or building companies that I put it off.

Thanks for the idea.

Richard, I'll shoot you an email.


just a suggestion, but another option is to make a high-quality archive of the business - contacts, software packages used, consultants who worked with them, etc., in order to revive it efficiently if/when the day comes.


Email is in the original post: Richard@70MillionJobs.com.


Count me in to help. I have a knack for making the impossible possible. I’ve mentored EIT’s through Defy in the past.

If you need clients I expect corp to corp agreements with established recruitment agencies would be a good place to start generating revenues.


Thanks for your kind offer to help.


Definitively sounds like you have one of the bests existing opportunities to implement the 2.0 of that idea.


I am considering several blockchain approaches.


I will help you.


i'd also help! (backend swe)


If you do go through with this, you can get quite a bit of competent volunteer work, especially from potential beneficiaries and retired programmers.

Post to HN if this moves forward and you want volunteers / low paid staff - currently I dn't know how you find thsiad volunteers when you are finally ready.


Thank you.


thx!


Thanks for the offer.


Glad I could help. I know it won't be a breeze but I would hope that at the very least the job board continues. I'm sure there are plenty of people that will find it very helpful now and in the future. You've gone thru many of the difficulties associated with the situation and have risen above them. There are very few people with the experience needed to help others given the same circumstances. I wish you the best!


Hey Wheels-thanks for sharing your positive thoughts. We had 2 business lines: our job board and our staffing business. The job board is very low touch, although it does require dedicated personnel driving employer acquisition. But the tech side is easy.

By far, the bigger business is the staffing company, and it requires lots of people to land large corporate accts and service them day-to-day and drive job-seeker acquisition. People are expensive, as you know.


I think you are doing some important work. I'm pretty sure that there's a need for your services. It's just hard to keep it going with all the economic turbulence we've had these past years.

I would hope that at the very least the job board continues. It would be a big loss to have it all disappear. I wish you all the best!


I really hope you, or someone else, takes another stab at this project when the economic winds shift. It's a worthwhile endeavor.


Hey Buf-thanks for sharing your feelings and your kind words of support. And congrats for kicking ass in your release. A number of people have asked about donating, but frankly, I don't feel right about accepting charity. We'll get through this, and I will continue pursuing my life's work. Thank you again for your big heart. Richard


Thanks Richard. I feel so honored having worked on 3 unicorns, one of which I helped start. It's been instrumental in my companies that I run now.

If you're not comfortable with a cash donation, perhaps I can volunteer my time, or just be another inbox you hit up when you need to bounce an idea off someone.


> I don't feel right about accepting charity.

Maybe think of it this way? There are those of us who want to help but for whatever reasons can only feasibly do so though donations, if you were to accept our charity it would allow us to be part of the solution even if only a little.

In any event, may God bless you and may you succeed beyond your wildest dreams.


Emigration honestly is the most logical option for a felon. A few nations will accept local background checks in the immigration process, so if you move to a state where you don't have a record you can just get your police report from a place where your record is clean.

Another option is to go live in a Compact of Free Association nations such as Micronesia or Marshall Islands. US citizens are authorized to live and work there without a visa, so once you live overseas there for a few years you can immigrate to most other nations using the background check from your country of prior residence, which is now a country where you have a clear background.


How is a person with a criminal record, no job, no support network, and no savings supposed to move to another country?


They’re not. Even by Internet forum standards this is absolutely terrible advice.


It's actually really good advice for those that can make it work. Not everyone is broke just because they're a criminal.


Yeah but a formerly incarcerated person who can afford flights to Micronesia probably is already doing well for themselves.


Or they're simply looking for better opportunities than the limited ones they have now?

This seems like a really silly hill to die on.


Add no degree. Many especially in CS might even be highly skilled but have no degree to show for it.

EDIT: And only speak e̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ a single language.


Several options

1) Marshall islands or Micronesia. Buy flight on credit, do farm or whatever labor you can to eat while you get booted. No visa needed to live or work.

2) Some nations such as Argentina have effectively no immigration enforcement. Once you're in the country you're good and you can file a court case to become a citizen immediately (you'll have to wait 2+ year for it to be granted). In the meantime the legal system in Argentina has to treat you as a citizen while you're waiting on your case.

If you truly have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and no access to credit you may be able to hitchhike and/or work on boats/yachts to get to any nation in the Americas.

3) Or, not recommending it, but you can be like the illegal immigrants. Enter somewhere on a tourist visa and take informal jobs like illegal immigrants do. Seems to work for some of them in a variety of European and South American countries.

4) Join a foreign militia/military. French foreign legion, Ukraine. Also YPG and some Kurdish militias I think still accepts recruits and they don't require anything past your flight which you could buy on credit. French foreign legion will grant you citizenship after two contracts and will feed you in the meanwhile, even while you're trying out.

5) Work with an English teaching organization that does not perform FBI background check. Some exist but they may not be plentiful. They may help you get a job in a new nation.

6) Marry a Brazilian (or few other nations). Many jurisdictions in Brazil will issue a permanent residence visa without much scrutiny if you are married or have a Brazilian child. Believe Cape Verde also gives instant citizenship for marriage.

7) IF you can enter Philippines on 'Balakbayan' visa (married to Filipino) then you'll be issued a 1 year visa without scrutiny. After 6 months in the country they don't require background checks from anywhere but Philippines. Wait 7 months after entering, use your spouse to apply for work and permanent visa.


Have you actually done any of the 7 options you mention? (If you have, I'd love to hear details). I think you may be going on bad information on at least some of them. For the record, I have a federal conviction in the US. I got out of prison at age 28, finished my degrees (CS & math), and succeeded as an early employee at a startup, so it is possible. Then in 2014 I went to Argentina for the supposed "2 year citizenship", which ended up taking 6 years, and a good amount of money to pursue it. I lived on money generated entirely in the US - the economy of Argentina is much, much worse than the US. If you're basing your research on the baexpats forum and specifically bajo_cero2's comments, that may have been true before 2013, but not anymore.

I'm not saying your suggestions are 100% impossible, but they're more for people who are on the run (i.e. very desperate) rather than those with a conviction.


There’s also the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty which allows you to open a business and live in the Netherlands if your background is clean for the last 10 years. You only need a €4500 investment in the business and another couple k for the application fees. This is what I did.


Most of these are bad advice.

First, flying on credit isn't nearly as easy as you make it out to be. Yes, a bunch of companies are buy now, pay later. They fall into two groups. The first does it based on your credit. The second is a layaway plan - by the time you get on the plane you've managed to pay in full. Ex-cons struggling to get a job usually have neither. Nobody wants to give money to a person who looks like they are trying to disappear. (Because you just know your money is going to disappear with them...)

Second, a lot of your plans require going to countries where you need another language. That's going to be a challenge for most ex-cons.

Third, while the French Foreign Legion is romantic and all, they won't take you if they find you have a criminal record. Other foreign legions are similar. They might not find out, but do you want to spend your life savings betting on that?

Fourth, marrying someone from another country is an uphill battle for someone who lacks a job. Particularly when most of the women from those countries looking to marry an American would like to wind up in the USA rather than the reverse.

These are all amazing plans, and I'm sure that some succeed with each. But they're going to work out poorly for most ex-cons who try them.


If you simply look for ways to fail, you'll never succeed.

My statement is direct towards goal oriented people who want to succeed and are willing to iteratively test their options until something works. Not failures who are unwilling to take a risk or work for a reward. If you can't get a credit card, then hitchhike and/or volunteer on a yacht or just be homeless and work day labor that doesn't check your record until you've saved up a chunk.

An individual who is capable of success is capable of tirelessly executing options until they find one that works. And that is possible. Staying in the US means you will never fully regain your civil rights if convicted of a federal crime. Leaving means you have the chance of having the full civil rights of a citizen, somewhere.


Which of these options worked for you?


When I was homeless I have hitchhiked without using money, then slept in a ditch for weeks in Williston North Dakota where the oil industry was booming and no one performed background checks. After a few weeks of day labor (part time sleeping in a ditch, part time crashing with a generous but drunk ex-felon in a trailor) I had enough money for a train ticket to an extremely cheap midwestern city where I used my wages to buy a month in an AirBnB which allowed me to have a residence to do local factory work.

Regarding going out of country, I have joined a foreign militia prior that had some ex-cons in it, that did not require anything other than a plane ticket to join. I did not know the language, but learned (some of it) along the way. Travelling extensively you learn to communicate without knowing much of the language. I believe I paid for that ticket with a credit card.

So out of my "Several Options" I can personally say (4) would work and been tested by me. Domestically I can say hitch-hiking to an oil field and sleeping in a ditch until you can afford better would work (met lots of felons that did same). I also married a filipina while I was completely broke, so (7) would work as well although I haven't personally done it, it would be trivial for me to execute it.


Why did this comment get downvoted? It doesn't sound like a lie.


Buying a plane ticket sounds impossible for someone without a job, but you would be surprised how much money you can make by busking, day labor, or just straight up begging. I've made over $100 in 2 hours just from flailing on a cheap guitar in a busy location.

Sure, I had to have a skill to begin with, but saying you can't do it is wrong. Just most people won't do it because they think they can't do it.


Most people don't have the location. It's expensive to live where that kind of opportunity exists.


Outside of America, maybe, but most people in America live close to a gas station or a highway intersection.

My income quote comes from a gas station in a backwater town in the deep woods of Alabama, and I'm not a great guitarist or something amazing worth throwing money at.


Yeah I'm not a busker myself but I've found "middle America" and more humble populations to be more generous in general. It's not the rich who typically empathize with someone on the street, it's a working class person who's been there.


Sounds like you're talking about a one-time thing then rather than a sustainable practice. I think if you loiter in front of a gas station you will be rousted by police in much less than a week.


And if you get beaten because you infringed on some territory or cops having a bad day, you can loose the guitar or worse.


> Third, while the French Foreign Legion is romantic and all, they won't take you if they find you have a criminal record.

This is not true unless you are wanted by interpol or a very serious record such as murder.

For an American, might crossing into Canada be an easier option?


I don't think Canada would be easier. People with a criminal conviction are generally "inadmissible" without special permission.[1]

And if someone was desperate enough to try to hide a US criminal record, Canada is the last country they should try, because Canada and the US share their criminal history databases.

1: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...


To support this: http://foreignlegion.info/joining/

The page is pretty plain language reading which makes it appear very trustworthy.

However, they avoid explicitly saying that past crimes - whether convicted and served or not - don't matter. The DO say that catching the eye of Interpol is bad.


Why not Mexico? Enforcement is not as strict there?


> If you truly have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and no access to credit you may be able to hitchhike and/or work on boats/yachts to get to any nation in the Americas.

How does this work? Do you just go to the docks and start asking randos if they’re going to X and also looking for labor?

> Also YPG and some Kurdish militias I think still accepts recruits and they don't require anything past your flight which you could buy on credit.

Not sure I’d recommend this in particular unless you’re really truly willing and ready to die. Sure, any military service where your in a combat role is a significant risk increase, but this feels distinct from joining something like the , backed by a secure NATO-aligned government, with new and top of the line equipment. As FFL, I imagine most any combat you see these days is going to be against insurgents that you have the upper hand on. Whereas going to fight with the YPG you may end up vice versa.

FWIW a friend of a friend did this, and indeed was killed rather soon.


https://hitchwiki.org/en/Hitchhiking_a_boat

I got a 'free' ticket from Seattle to Alaska once by working on a boat :)

>FWIW a friend of a friend did this, and indeed was killed rather soon.

Sorry to hear that. I was in YPG for a few months in 2015. You're right it is dangerous, especially for those who are especially brave or end up in a unit that really embraces 'sehid' (martyr) culture. Rojava also offers some civil volunteer opportunities. Generally if you act like a criminal / psycho / weirdo you get filtered out before you can do much damage. There's no paperwork but I think parts of the middle east operate by the old code of a man being judged by his actions rather than formal paperwork from the state.

I have no personal experience with FFL. I know it's much more selective than YPG. The upside is you get French Citizenship. Therefore there is healthy competition with people from the 3rd world seeking a relatively high wage and EU citizenship.


Interesting, I’ve never heard of this. Has it fallen out of style mostly? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a hitchhiker in my life, mostly only in old media.


Hitching (car) is relatively easy on the west coast and borders on impossible east of the Mississippi. Seattle to Eugene is a pretty easy circuit to hitch.

Seattle->Alaska I got as part of a contract to work on the boat, but it was a flight. The boat was closed circuit route in the sea and a single port (Dutch Harbor).


I managed to hitchhike from the bay area to the Canadian border and back to California. I met lots of really cool people. Contrary to popular belief nowadays most people don't want to murder you.


> Contrary to popular belief nowadays most people don't want to murder you.

Sure, but when I look at things like Nextdoor this is the prevailing attitude regardless of whether it’s true or not.


Definitely. I do feel like this attitude has contributed to the decline in hitchhiking in recent years. Still there are enough decent people to make it viable. I did end up having to wait a while in some areas to get a ride (pro-tip wear sunscreen). Anecdotally every single person who picked me up smoked weed although in CA/OR/WA that might have just been a coincidence.


>Anecdotally every single person who picked me up smoked weed

My experience in hitchhiking was the same ha ha, probably half the drivers were smoking while driving.


As a bored youth a few times I made a sign and stood by the ship canal in Seattle and arranged to hop on boats and help them through the locks.


Please, please be very cautious, read this comment critically, consult a friend or anyone minimally smart before doing any of this stuff.


For no. 7 I can confirm this since our Bureau of Immigration is not really up to standard, if you know what I mean. Convicted felons usually end up here, if I can remember the 4chan server was hosted in Philippines at one point.


It also opens up an opportunity to hit the big reset button of life. A new country, new culture, new friends and even new languages in many cases.

People have the opportunity to become a new person, and it's not just those with a criminal past either. Perhaps those who have experienced persecution can also start a new chapter in a safer environment.


In my case it was a credit score. I was in a bad motorcycle accident at 19, I defaulted on every loan at the time (vehicle + credit cards + medical debt) while I was busy learning how to walk again. 15 years later, I still couldn’t get a credit card for more than $250, told no to getting a mortgage even with a VA loan, etc. My credit score couldn’t get higher than 600 even after those defaults fell off my record. Now, I live in Europe and am trusted with thousands of Euros in debt if I want it. I can get a house without any issues…

That’s a fresh start that just simply was impossible in the US.


Similar story for me, but in my case I was an idiot with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness and a $20,000 line of credit for no good reason. Blew through a ton of money and wasn’t making much either. Ended up saddled with medical debt after an accident. Medical debt has been erased but the others are still on top of me. I don’t need anything in the near future credit wise though it would be nice to have a line of credit in case of emergencies.


Federal law stipulates that negative information can only stay on a credit report for 7 years although I was able to get much of it off before then. I opened up some secured cards and got some secured loans and now I have an 800 credit score and no problem getting credit. It is definitely possible to start over without leaving the country. I did have to do some research, but there are entire forums dedicated to credit repair.


> 15 years later, I still couldn’t get a credit card for more than $250, told no to getting a mortgage even with a VA loan, etc. My credit score couldn’t get higher than 600 even after those defaults fell off my record.

Fuck at this point let’s start throwing debtors in prison. At least we’ll shelter people who might otherwise be homeless.


I mean the US does have debtor's prison. Fall behind in child support and you'll be thrown in jail, have your licenses revoked, property and vehicles seized, and passport confiscated. It won't be dischargeable in bankruptcy either. You then get to try and re-enter the labor market with a criminal record, and probably with even more arrears with looming further action. You basically become civilly dead.

IF you formerly had a very high wage job it can also be nearly impossible to convince a judge that your 'imputed income' should fall again, even if industry has shifted and you no longer can find those high wage jobs anymore. 20% of your pre-tax imputed income can easily become the majority or worse of your post-tax income if the bottom falls out of your industry, and then you are fucked.


After 7 years your credit history should be empty. So likely you couldn’t get loans for lack of credit history. There is also no such thing as a VA vehicle loan. Many of us went through this same thing in 2012.


It wasn’t empty, but apparently only having credit limits of less than a few thousand dollars when you are making over a hundred k a year is a red flag. Also, just because you don’t see the negative things in your credit report doesn’t mean it still doesn’t affect your score. The US credit system is all kinds of fucked up. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with it anymore.


> The US credit system is all kinds of fucked up. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with it anymore.

There is a law requiring the removal of debts over 7 years old. The only “report” that it would stay on is with an internal report with the specific bank.


The missing caveat from my personal experience is that this was all years ago. Things are probably different these days, especially after the recession.


Things are not different these days, this information comes from my experience from 2012. The 7 years law has likely been in place since before you were born.


It's sad. It shouldn't have to be radical solutions like that. Poster above is very luck he had his record expunged (although it's possible his record lives on in Google). Most convicted persons are never able to clear their record, even decades later.


I can't say if emigration is a solution here since most developed countries, especially East Asia, automatically denies entry if you are a felon. Seems like there is a limited pool of countries that are willing to look the other way.

We are talking island states, perhaps Thailand, Eastern Europe.


OP said he immigrated to 3 different European countries with a felony record.

East Asia would not be my choice for legal residency as a felon. Although I would note if you're not applying for a visa, they rarely actually have mechanisms to check your criminal record unless someone influential takes a specific liking to you.

As I mentioned there are a number of nations that only require background check from countries you've lived in for the past X years. Therefore if you live somewhere else for X years you can then leapfrog to that country.


What crime were you convicted of?


I worked on Wall St (actually had my own firm), and committed securities violations. I was stone guilty. Paid everyone back, but I had it coming. Lost everything: family, friends, all my considerable possessions, my freedom (fed prison for a couple of years). When I was released, I was destitute and homeless. But I discovered my calling in life: helping my brothers and sisters in and out of prison so that they might have the opportunity to lead a safe and productive life.


Does it matter? He served his time and/or paid a fine. If he didn't meet the random friend in HS it would be ridiculous hard to get a job.


No, but it’s still a curiosity. Why are you so defensive?


Why would you want information that has no value in the discussion?


Again, for curiosity.


When I announced the launch of 70 Million Jobs on HN back in 2017, it proved to be one of the most widely read and discussed posts ever on the site. I was totally blown away. Once again, I am struck by the incredibly sensitive and supportive tenor of the reactions to my news here.

For some context, besides having a criminal record, I was/am a solo founder who somehow talked his way into Y Comb. Perhaps most surprising is my age: I'm 68. To my friends I grew up with, I'm f'-ing Steve Jobs. To you guys, you'd no doubt see me as the bumbling great uncle at Thanksgiving that isn't allowed to touch the TV remote control.

So it's all been pretty weird. (wanna see it get weirder? google me and check out my past)

As you all know, doing a 2-sided marketplace is always tough. But imagine if neither side of your marketplace was convinced they wanted your product. Chances are you keep your distance from such an undertaking ("Build something people want," my YC t-shirt says). I build something arguably no one wanted, but I knew they needed. Does that make me a schmuck? Probably.

But to those who've never gotten close to someone with as record--particularly someone with a different color than you, who was brought into an unfair world from Day One, someone who wanted the same things as you, but never quite figured out how to get there, I'm here to say that some of these folks are the most honorable, humble, appreciate, hard-working people you could imagine. They just want a peaceful life, to take care of their family and get a good night sleep.

So that's where the mission comes in, and that's when zealots are born. The truth is, I have nothing in my life other than my work. No wife, no kids, no home, nothing. But the satisfaction I got from helping these heroic folks, and the smiles I'd see on their kids' faces when they were reunited, meant/means the world to me. If you don't have something like this in your life, I urge you to find it. Your karma will thank you for it.

I invite you all to ask your questions and continue to opine. If you have something to share that isn't merely an attempt to win an argument, I'd appreciate your taking the time to email me. More importantly, if you're ever in a position to hire someone with a record, take the chance. Life is too short not to take chances. Richard


This might really be a stupid question and I can imagine you have other things to do right now, so zero hard feelings if you don’t answer: But regarding this whole Great Resignation thing, not only in this specific context but in general — there is one thing that I just don’t get: What on earth are these Resignators doing? Where do they go? I mean all those people have to end up SOMEWHERE in the job market, don’t they?


That's an excellent question plaqueing economists and workforce development professionals. It made send for people to stay home when they were receiving supplemental federal unemployment insurance. But now? How are they surviving?

I think that workers at this level (blue-collar, light industrial, low-skilled, whatever) have become empowered within the economic turmoil. I think that whereas before, they'd take any job at any wage out of desperation, now they recognize there's much more demand for their services, so they can jump around, seeking for the better option. I suspect that it'll all normalize over time, but that's the one commodity we can't afford, at this point.


People keep asking him this question, but don't realize he's not a university that can figure out why. All he has is data to show that something is happening, not why.


My sample size is very small, but they just undo the whole adulthood thing and become children again. Live with parents, eat out of their fridge, hang out with friends and enjoy life


my spitballed guess is that it really is nowhere. anyone out of work for the pandemic and able to survive by living with parents etc. is just still doing that. Why put in 40hr/week when the pay barely even makes rent


Maybe they have to end up somewhere in the job market, later. Maybe they got long Covid and are recovering. Maybe the isolation made them decide they needed to take time to consider what they want in life and to pivot/re-train. Even a small portion of the workforce on each reason to resign work, collectively at the same time, looks indistinguishable from a wave.


They're living off the stimulus checks and their crypto investments. At least they were before the checks stopped and the market tanked.


The vast majority of people released from jail or prison do not own crypto assets. Nor do they have bank accounts, established credit, laptop, transportation, clothing, housing or a job.


Maybe they just realized there's a bunch of expenses they don't need...or can streamline... I think and see how Covid gave a bunch of people time to focus on what they found was important... literally in my case I've found it's cheaper travelling in the winter to a "cheap" warmer country such as Egypt or South America or even New Zealand (Scoot does cheap no frill flights from Athens to Melbourne) living off odd jobs or freelancing... I mean at this point volunteering or living off the land is a good way to opt out and find "meaning" rather than be stuck in a polluted city in a "mindless" job...


New Zealand? Cheap?

ahahahahaha


This is a pertinent question that deserves to be answered by anyone who can shed some insight.


Richard, could you elaborate on the number one question in the comments - what do you mean by the great resignation and how specifically this affected you and the people using your service to find jobs?



What really rubs me the wrong way is the tone in his original post, which sounds remarkably like a boomer complaining 'people didn't want to work and it screwed us do-gooders over'

In his follow-up comment it really sounds like their jobs were either shit or the compensation wasn't good enough. Lots of companies paid their workers well and didn't have retention issues, but the 'big boys' just treat labor as disposable.


Can we dispense with these ageist stereotypes here please?


Millennial naivety


If you end up being stuck with that personal debt let me know. I'll be happy to absorb some of it.


Thanks for your generosity


No, thank you for doing something absolutely amazing. It would be really sad if you ended up holding the bag over and beyond everything that you've already done. I'm terribly sorry to read your message and it pains me not to have any ideas on what can be done to give you enough runway to continue so to help you land it softly is the best that I can think of.

Could you please add a publicly visible email to your profile so that it is a bit easier to contact you off-site?


What are the operational costs of 70MR? What prevents you from scaling to zero employees?


If I had to guess, account people who can work with employers and future employees to get deals done once the platform does initial matchmaking.

Not everything, particularly employment, can be self-serve through a website.


I bet the majority of their operating budget is people who drum up the contracts/relationships with these companies.

It's one of the biggest things you can't automate and there's a certain kind of person that fits this role. These people reach out to companies, find out if they need work and would be ok with these kind of employees and then they have to work out an agreement. It's very personal and very human.


As explained elsewhere, our staffing business was by far our best product line. Staffing is a notoriously people-hungry enterprise. They're required to sell large employers, nationally, to handle the logistics, to drive job-seeker acquisition, and much more. This is not a pure tech undertaking.


This sounds awesome, I want to do something similar, only with housing for people with bad credit, or records, or anything really that makes keeping housing rough.

My grand idea is creating an intentional community with some glamping areas for cashflow, a community garden, shared tools and worker space with 3d printers, recreational vehicles, brooms, rakes, etc...things you really don't need to 'own', and cut back on too much consumerism. The idea being if you had 2 city blocks and everyone was related or at least friendly and built a huge garage to share items they maybe use infrequently, how much space would that free up for more people to live, or to work on a hobby or something?

My idea is build a homestead, in an area where zoning and building codes allow, maybe use some earth-friendly building methods like earth bag homes, there's an awesome youtube channel called My Little Homestead where they basically built free standing buildings as 'rooms' for each of their kids and it's basically like their own studio apartment. Each one cost < 10k, and is something you can live in any time of year.

If you could build like 50 of these things, you could maybe house 50-100+ people and maybe just charge like 300/person 100 per child, and build bigger buildings as needed for larger families, etc. Rinse and repeat across the USA and bring rent and home prices down because you'd flood the market with cheap homes anyone can afford. The glamping section might have 5-10 spots each bringing in 50-200 per night throughout the year.

The community would be gated, and protected well, and work best probably for those who could work online or from home, or willing to commute as it'll probably be in a rural area.

They might not even be places you'd want to stay in forever, but great starter homes to live in while you save up money for something bigger or build up some investments or passive income sources.

Alternate to earth bags, we also could use tiny-homes which are roughly 50k per pop, possibly less if we manufacture them from kits.

I just have no idea how or where to begin to launch something like this, or if the brilliance is just in my own head, or if people/communities would actually find it valuable.


>My grand idea is creating an intentional community with some glamping areas for cashflow, a community garden, shared tools and worker space with 3d printers, recreational vehicles, brooms, rakes, etc...things you really don't need to 'own', and cut back on too much consumerism. The idea being if you had 2 city blocks and everyone was related or at least friendly and built a huge garage to share items they maybe use infrequently, how much space would that free up for more people to live, or to work on a hobby or something?

The shared garage idea seems hopelessly naive to me. What is stopping someone from stealing the items? Who maintains the items? What happens if the items break either via negligence or normal wear and tear? It is a classic tragedy of the commons problem.

I live in a low-income neighborhood and we literally can't have anything nice. Neighbor gets a BBQ and puts it in the courtyard literally chained down. Someone gets some bolt cutters and steals it. The courtyard regularly gets trash dumped in it and if you clean it up people will immediately just dump more. I stopped trying to clean it up when people started just tossing entire garbage bags of trash out there. Our shared laundry space got vandalized by bored kids now there is only one functional washer and dryer. These are usually full of clothes (some people leave their laundry in them for days) so you have to drive to a laundromat if you want any chance of getting laundry done on your day off.


A friend is working on tiny housing for homeless. There is a premium tier of the tiny houses that I think helps to fundraise for the Calyx pods. https://foragebuilt.com.au/

But I think ultimately you’d be building a trailer park for the more troubled parts of society and that might cause it to be less idyllic than you envisage.

I’ve previously done some marketing work for an apartment building that focuses on mixing previously homeless in with other tenants plus support services on site.


I love the idea, living in Europe I had the opportunity to squat in my younger years and the fun of living with others while having the opportunity to transform the house we lived in was extremely empowering... have you ever heard of Hundertwasser , his houses seem similarly exciting ...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedensreich_Hundertwasser

Ic.org is a good place to visit to see what exists and you could emulate, it was started from a community called Twin Oaks that has quite a radical approach :-) I learnt about it from a book called "Is it Utopia yet" picked up in of all places Nuremberg... honestly agricultural land is cheap (2k a hectare) in non productive places and vegetable gardening or just plain planting stuff for lols like from "plants from a future" (pfaf.org) interspersed with a couple of weed plants should cover expenses... strawbale housing, adobe or trailer parks are much cheaper options at least initially... Gas made from compost, shit or wood chippings is a great alternative... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compost_heater


Isn't this basically a trailer park?


Brother, sorry you’re going through this. Thanks for sharing.

> I'm here to say that some of these folks are the most honorable, humble, appreciate, hard-working people you could imagine. They just want a peaceful life, to take care of their family and get a good night sleep.

Not my experience with many felons. Not trying to be rude here, but how do you tell the food from the bad?


* good from the bad! Argh!


The good ones end up in prison, the bad ones run the country or try to buy Twitter /s


been there, can commiserate. i had to shut down my startup in a similar space a few years ago after we failed to round out our post-seed raise. literally had to let everyone go one day, then my co-founder left, and then, packing boxes and walking out the door for the last time.

it sucks, no two ways about it. hope you can find the next thing quickly.


Well done on what you've achieved. I hope it gets new energy and lives on. At 68 I guess you're not "doing it for the money". A decent soul entrenched in a seemingly impossible battle against socio-political decay is inspiring.

As other commenters have said, it isn't just people with criminal records who get marginalised. Members of my family experienced social exclusion due to PTSD following military service. Many vets come back with similar issues as ex-prisoners. What happened to those who served in Vietnam and Korea is shameful. But there are also people who are simply atypical, low IQ, old, queer, disabled, or the wrong skin colour. We have a very, very long way to go to become the society we imagine ourselves to be, one where everyone doesn't just "get by" but prospers, and feels wanted and fulfilled in life.

I know it will be unpopular to say here, but amongst all nations the USA seems particularly brutal with regard to its social exclusion, and I think it will only ever be solved from the political level, not bottom-up. At 68 you're still a spring chicken for politics, so I'd go into that if I were you, as a single-issue candidate on "jobs for the marginalised". Judging by the size of the US "excluded population" you'd win a landslide. :)


Nothing to add to the other comments except to wish luck and to say that you're an inspiration. Thank you.


ty!


There seems to be some confusion here over my use of the expression, "The Great Resignation." https://www.investopedia.com/the-great-resignation-5199074 This is a economic/workforce phenomenon that began amidst the pandemic and continues. (The NY Times reported today that there are 11.4 million unfilled jobs. That's historically off the charts.)

My company operates/ed a job board and a staffing business. Both ran like traditional job boards (Indeed, Zip Recruiter, etc) and staffing companies (Kelly, Adecco, etc.), except being focused entirely on the formerly incarcerated. This is how large employers source many, many employees.

The staffing business was much larger. In this model, we serve as the hirer-of-record, and essentially lease out the workers to our client employers, who cover all our costs (wages, unemployment insurance, taxes, etc.) plus our mark-up (profit). It's a high volume, low margin business.

During the Great Resignation, we found it took 10x the time and effort to get someone placed, eroding our already thin margins. Plus, if a worker left (which they began doing at a great rate), we're obligated to replace them. All of this made it pretty much impossible for us to make money. (Again, we're a for-profit business). I hope this clarifies things.


> During the Great Resignation, we found it took 10x the time and effort to get someone placed, eroding our already thin margins. Plus, if a worker left (which they began doing at a great rate)

Where do you think they went? If they mostly went to work elsewhere because as part of the "Great Resignation" because they found better opportunities, then perhaps you accomplished your social mission (which was presumably giving them a foot in the door of gainful work), even if it was at the price of the business.

Maybe structural impediments to employment for felons came down due to a tightening labor market?

For example, in CA, laws are being passed to allow formerly incarcerated wildlands firefighters to work in that job after release:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

If they resigned instead due to hopelessness and falling back through the proverbial cracks of society, that's a terrible result.


This describes the "Great Resignation" but doesn't explain it.

Of course, there are a lot of things going on. However, I think one important thing is that American workplaces, over the last twenty or more years, gradually accumulated immensely toxic/abusive cultures. At the point of the pandemic, when many people had unemployment/work-at-home/savings, a lot of workers' had their tolerance of that interrupted and then just refused to return.

The thing with the situation is toxic work environments basically are going to double down on their claims, their view of what a sane environment and reasonable pay are. So these organizations are eating through employees and so they'd be the worst customers of a job board. The question how much 70m Record vetted their customers.

Article explaining the toxic angle: https://www.greatplacetowork.com/resources/blog/how-toxic-co...

Employees discuss their views: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/


I know this is a bit off topic, but even during the "Great Resignation", as I always do I keep my eyes open on the job market (non-felon with a good work history, so this is a departure from the conversation, I apologize). With all of the complaints from employers about "We can't find people to work for us!", even in the software industry (which is well payed, compared to a lot of my friends), I didn't see the expected raise in the offering salaries for such claimed desperation. Especially when inflation is pushing from the bottom and housing prices (at least in the Seattle area, my area) are still nuts. The expectations of experience are laughable and, frankly, to be to be ignored at this point. I'm not even sure who writes the spec sheets for positions.


https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

If you click the ‘wage level’ button you can see that workers everywhere are seeing growth but workers in the lowest quartile are seeing higher growth.

A few explanations other than the one you don’t see evidence for:

- the growth is in nominal dollars, inflation explains the spike and everyone is down in real terms, so even though the lowest-paid are doing better, they still aren’t seeing wage growth (but you are also observing nominal pay with your open eyes…)

- the lowest-paid are quitting, or the number of workers is decreasing in the higher quartile such that the average individual chosen from the first quartile would not have seen wage growth but rather higher-paid people are now counting as part of their quartile and pushing up the averages


How many people got a job and quit after a few days as you described?

Did this have any impact on recidivism?

Is it possible that these employees found better jobs? If so, could it have theoretically been possible to retain them had you offered better wages, benefits or assignments?

I just don’t fundamentally understand the position of “I had a group of people that truly needed my business, but a phenomenon called The Great Resignation changed the world in such a way that they… didn’t need it anymore (?)”

Is it possible that your business model of (in your parlance) leasing out convicts maybe had some sort of innate flaw unrelated to covid?


Staffing agencies, from a super cynical point of view, take a slice of money that would otherwise go to the people actually working.

I think in the more nuanced view staffing agencies allow people with irregular rhythms to still have a job. And of course helping people actually get a foot in the door! But if you're going to work full time anyways, and there's more open-ness to you being hired, why go through a staffing agency? I think the reasons end up being limited to "could not get hired yourself".


At least, the staffing agency can negotiate a better deal than you could find and secure for yourself.


Maybe, but maybe not - and maybe that negotiated difference leads to the profit slice or a higher profit slice.

Why would a person make $14.50/hour when they could make $15/hour applying directly to places?

The issue may be that so few people are looking for work right now that it's easier for convicted felons to be hired, perhaps not worrying about or taking on whatever vetting process that may or may not happen through an agency for people with a criminal record.


>Why would a person make $14.50/hour when they could make $15/hour applying directly to places?

Yeah, the generally wouldn't, which is why you have to conclude that they don't have the option.

> maybe that negotiated difference leads to the profit slice

Of course.


It’s kinda odd. I’d expect people to be happy to have a new job, but if they (regularly) quit after only a few days, then it sounds like being jobless is more comfortable for them (they can’t all find a different position after just a few days).


Either they like being jobless (which isn’t really a typical type of person in my experience), or the job itself was terrible due to pay, commute, working conditions, company culture, etc. or they were able to find more favorable employment outside of 70M.

I would love to know what jobs were difficult to fill and how much they paid because “The Great Resignation” narrative (kind of conveniently) squarely puts the blame for the failure of this business on a caricature of lazy poors and the government. This narrative also absolutely vindicates the founder and management because the demise is because of an uncontrollable external force.


Those are all possible explanations, but it seems unlikely that previously acceptable jobs suddenly turned unacceptable at the same time COVID started?

Kind of hard to think something suddenly changed about the operation of the company that had been running well for the past few years.


To quote the original post:

> Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

Businesses fail for myriad reasons every day, even ones that functioned perfectly for years. Not every business, however, lays blame on a big and uncontrollable phenomenon to explain why it folded.

The author did not mince words — people no longer wanted to use his service. He has decided that that’s because people didn’t want to work due to a sociopolitical phenomenon that’s entirely decoupled from basics like “How good were the jobs?”, “How much did they pay?”, “How were the working conditions at these workplaces?”

This narrative completely avoids any possibility of his business making poor decisions or simply not offering a service that people want.


Could you try reaching out to The Last Mile project? This might be something they could take over: https://thelastmile.org/

I could help facilitate an introduction if helpful.


Thx, but I'm very familiar


Someday the historians will puzzle how so many people quit their jobs hit at the heels of the great 2023 Depression. How could they have missed the signs?


Given people wanting to donate to support you and an apparent issue being the inability to earn sufficient profit margins, why not organize as a non-profit instead? You're clearly trying to perform a socially-beneficial service here, focusing on underserved populations. Missions like that are the entire reason for the 501(c)(3) carve-out and you could potentially survive if you didn't have to earn profit or pay taxes. Most states even allow you to apply for hardship exemptions to property taxes, which can help a lot on office expense.


When the economy and job market began storming back, we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

As in the workers you placed, employees of 70MR? Why would they leave after a few days? Can you expand on this?

It became obvious that we lacked the resources to weather this new storm while hoping and praying the world would normalize soon. (It still hasn’t.)

What does normalize mean to you (or 70MR)?


Going to third the "need more information on this."

Are they job hopping, in which case wouldn't that also be a revenue stream for 70MR? Did they find that it was such a sellers' market that they didn't need 70MR's services to get good jobs anymore?

I never really understood this "shortage of workers / great resignation" phenomenon to begin with, so perhaps this specific situation would be a good one to use as a concrete example.


I would imagine the recruiting company that provides the placement only gets paid after the employee has been with the company for a certain period of time.

The same way companies offer a bonus to current employees if they recommend some for hire and they maintained their employment for 90 days or so.


From their website, employers pay $135-$145 per 1 month ad. Which is very reasonable, I current pay Indeed over $3k a month for 1 job listing (based on a daily sponsor rate).

But if the applicant pool is bad with the majority quitting then I could see employers leaving the platform.

https://www.70millionjobs.com/page/pricing


Or if the employer pool is bad and workers leave as soon as they find better options.


I would also like more information about this phenomenon.

What’s the scale of this? For example, how many people accepted a job and then quit within a few days?

How did it impact these people’s lives? For example, did this result in increased recidivism? If so, at what scale?


I had a conversation with an HR friend of mine recently. According to her, she is inundated with fake requests for unemployment from people that never worked at her employer. Or people join, then quit promptly and apply for unemployment. This is in California.

I would think the state would have protections against this type of thing, but maybe not.


The sibling comment includes a link to the requirements, but UI in California looks at your total income for the past twelve months. Quitting after a couple days wouldn't help.


You have to be "unemployed through no fault of your own" to be eligible for unemployment.

https://edd.ca.gov/en/unemployment/eligibility/


Yes, that is the law. A nanny I employed in CA had put her two weeks in with us, then the last day of work she no-showed last minute. With two working parents you can imagine how well that was received. Anyhow, I told her to not come finish out her last day. So then she applies for unemployment a few weeks later. I got a notice from EDD and responded to it with the facts around her unemployment request, thinking surely they will deny her. There should have been two flags on her request: 1 - she quit, 2 - she no-showed the last day. It was processed and she was granted 26 weeks.

I think they are so overwhelmed at EDD that her request was just pushed along through the process. There are so many stories of fraud at EDD that you have to wonder how much time the claims processors are spending on each application.


You can appeal the ruling, all the way up to presenting your case before a judge(at least in AZ).


Probably hard to justify spending the time to pursue it in most cases.


I have and do, otherwise my unemployment insurance rates rise the following year, if that isn't a concern for you then sure. I also only fire for cause.


I have heard CA EDD is now sending out some letters requesting more information. They are probably backlogged, but they might respond.


That's what I thought. Turns out constructive dismissal, choosing to quit due to poor conditions or breach of contract, qualifies for unemployment. I'd have quit a couple jobs way sooner if I'd been aware.

My claim in CA was approved in 2020; I don't recall if that language was on the page or not at the time. Although I never got paid anything due to ID verification failure later in the process (clogged phone lines meant I never learned the reason, I gave up after a few weeks and a couple snail mails).

I was also fired in 2016 and paid out at that time, having told the UI interviewer that the employer didn't follow their dispute resolution process (breach of contract, in retrospect).


> You have to be "unemployed through no fault of your own" to be eligible for unemployment.

Technically, yes, but the system is so overwhelmed in many locations that unemployment requests are almost automatically approved. You have to work hard to appeal it after the fact and a lot of employers just give up.


The Great Resignation is curious, if I could speculate maybe it was the pandemic bailout and markets bubble (crypto too) making people think "I've got money now!". Now that everything is tumbling down, I wonder if people will start returning to work. Except now most businesses have seemingly stopped hiring yet again (even retail/hospitality?), so I guess whichever way it goes, OP is in trouble.


> The Great Resignation is curious, if I could speculate maybe it was the pandemic bailout and markets bubble (crypto too) making people think "I've got money now!"

I dunno if it’s even about money. The pandemic and the way it was handled REALLY messed with a lot of people’s heads. I’d say a not insignificant number of people had what amounts to a religious awakening of sorts. I’ve seen it myself, several people just deciding to make drastic life changes out of the blue.


how large was the "pandemic bailout"? it looked like two checks from the govt and < 1 year of increased (doubled?) unemployment. seems like a total of $8,000 or less for most people, with a wide variance from person to person.

Was this enough to make a large number of people stop working, even now into mid-2022? I really feel like the impact of several thousand dollars would be gone after a year, at most. yet many businesses near me are still under staffed and having trouble hiring.


I often read /r/povertyfinance, and they were not hiding the fact that it was a damn bonanza. Most people made it perfectly clear that they were doing very responsible things with the "free" money, but you know...

A lot of people for various reasons have never seen more than a thousand or two in their checking account at once (typically, from tax refunds). So, 8000 is a once-in-a-lifetime amount of wealth. It's sad to think of what's happening at a higher level of course. The government was borrowing money on behalf of everyone and telling everyone to go spend it. Thanks, uncle, I wasn't stupid enough already.


What does that have to do with people no longer wanting to work shit jobs in 2022? If anything this should increase the incentive to work as that money is already spent and the government hasn’t been handing out any more


I don't know how it relates, but I feel compelled to mention the PPP loan program as the largest part of the "pandemic bailout". It was $400 billion dollars in loans given out and forgiven with no repayment, to individual business owners and self-employed persons just as much as corporations. The average "loan" was just under $100K.


The idea that it's caused by "bailouts" is just a talking point. Personally I think it boils down to a few things:

1. Older people taking retirement early when the pandemic hit.

2. People in service/public-facing industries leaving for jobs that could be done remotely, or going back to school.

3. Several hundred thousand working age people dying from COVID.


For 3:

a. The official number is ~254,000 (in the USA) which is certainly a major over-estimate. True number is certainly far less.

b. Employees who died or retired don't count as resigned.


https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

Can you point me to your source(s) indicating the lower number you’re referring to?


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...

Then summing the 18-65 buckets (working age).


For 3: the vast majority of those who died were over 60.


4. People have woken up to the current form of slavery called Capitalism. For a start, if the Govt wanted people to succeed they would teach law at school and update the public with the latest case law and legislation every few months, but the fact is, that doesn't happen, ergo the righteous can inflict their sadism on the uneducated, just like religion is psychological warfare on the uneducated.

It all boils down to survival of the fittest and history repeatedly shows and the the US Govt & US Mil demonstrates, violence always wins the day.


Direct Payments was part of the story.

I saw more than a few people that when from 2 income house holds to 1 because of Student Loan payment defers and the increase cost of Child care made is possible for one of the parents to just stay home..

We also sadly lost a lot of people to covid, and many older people have chosen to retire rather than return to the office.

I think these 3 things are more impactful on the employment market than the direct payments


$4T in total spending, plus debt/rent forbearance which effectively adds on top of this.

You're forgetting the child tax credit as well, which was effectively a monthly stimulus check for many, and student loan forbearance, which nets out to something like $10B/month in increased consumer spending power


The great resignation was mostly about us who could survive a paycheck or two, leveraging the chaos to demand our value: if the current employer wouldn’t pay it, others would. We didn’t hesitate to move and make the previous employer pay for their neglect of us.


I manage IT for an office and one of our hires said they got covid, took a month to join, and then when she showed up her manager decided to move her desk. I think maybe I got the desktop and a monitor moved before I was told to stop because she just quit. I can think of maybe 3 people in my office that have stayed for over a year, none on bad terms, just hopping jobs.


This seems like it relates a lot to the bizarre structure of hiring and salaries. You need to get any job and then any other employer will offer you a ~20% better one but no one will match inflation the next year let alone give you what they would offer if you worked somewhere else.


I was really impressed with my employer this review period. I got a 17% raise. Other people I talked to got similar raises.


Back to the way it was pre-pandemic. I work for a Fortune 100 company with great pay and fantastic benefits (I am on a 6 week paid sabbatical right now). But whereas before people would stay with the company for 5-10 years, now they are leaving in droves (not because anything bad is happening at the company, we are doing great) and nobody is sticking around.


Yes.. but we are talking of people leaving after a few days, this is not the great resignation here.


Looking at some of the jobs on 70m I see listings for dishwashers, line cooks, etc. I had these jobs in my youth and saw plenty of people leaving in days or weeks. Post-pandemic I can definitely see people leaving these jobs quickly for a whole host of reasons.


> I am on a 6 week paid sabbatical right now

Here in Europe we call that vacation.


Well, I have enough vacation saved up that I could take 2 and a half months of vacation. That, plus my sabbatical, plus the 10 days of holidays we are given a year, plus the week off we get each summer means I could take nearly 5 months of vacation. On top of that, we get every Friday off as a paid day between Memorial Day and Labor Day (June-August).


> On top of that, we get every Friday off as a paid day between Memorial Day and Labor Day (June-August).

That's pretty neat and not common here.


> Several prominent organizations have indicated their interests in me assuming a leadership role. I need to work, and I need to continue my work.

Take the job so you dont starve, and so you can begin to rebuild. It's not time to shut the doors, it's just time to take a knee and get your game plan together. It ain't over yet, it's just halftime.

This will help: https://marker.medium.com/reflecting-on-my-failure-to-build-...


Not OP but is exactly what I needed to read for my own project, thank you. I’ve been searching for this.

It’s hard to find discussions about the real downsides of using VC money. For instance, what happens when growth fails? Do you lose ownership of the business? From reading this, the answer seems to be: Kind of, yeah. You have to buy your way back.

Another one: What happens if you want to do something extremely risky? My project is a game; what if an asteroid impact seems best for the design, but runs the risk of literally destroying the player base? I can’t imagine that would receive creative encouragement.

So as the author said, it depends on how value is to be measured.


> It’s hard to find discussions about the real downsides of using VC money

maybe because this is a forum, that belongs to the most prominent VC in the world?

> For instance, what happens when growth fails? Do you lose ownership of the business?

nothing, besides losing trust in your business’s ability to succeed, therefor not putting any more money in it

consider this: VCs are typically in hundred-million ranges, $500k for them is a rounding error, they only care about those companies that can show the promised growth

> What happens if you want to do something extremely risky?

that’d be actually great

more risk = more reward

> My project is a game

a thing about which no VC in the world cares

unless you promise it will become a “Metaverse”

> I can’t imagine that would receive creative encouragement

that’s not what you need a VC for, you need a VC for two things only: their money, their connections/status


Well funny you should say that, I have some expertise in this area.

> For instance, what happens when growth fails?

C level purge, or outright shuttering the business. This is more of a question of, when will my benefactors tire of gambling on this concept I am building.

> Do you lose ownership of the business?

Usually, in most cases, you give up part of the business to attain the funding, sometimes a board seat. When this happens, if you no longer hold the majority of the voting shares and seats, you can lose the business. If you have cofounders or partners, they may be pressured or persuaded to sell their share, so one VC not being the majority doesnt entirely mean you are safe. The only true safety is being a solo founder, which is why solo founders are encouraged to find a cofounder. Not only can most people not do everything themselves, but a solo founder is not easily broken once theyve made up their mind. There is no "mom" to play against "dad" when a CEO doesn't want to "play ball" with a VC's inane growth plan.

Your assessment is correct, in most cases, unless you are gumroad, you will have to buy back any stake you have sold/bequeathed.

> What happens if you want to do something extremely risky?

If you think it makes sense, do it. If you have a board you have to run it through first, this may not be as straightforward, because youll have to repitch a LOT and revalidate "feelings" and other nonsense.

> My project is a game;

That's awesome, you probably wont have to worry about any of this because most VC, unless theyre in this arena already, will not fund or even entertain a game. Theyll say "go to a publisher" or just outright ignore you. Im not trying to be mean, I love games, I love money.

> what if an asteroid impact seems best for the design, but runs the risk of literally destroying the player base? I can’t imagine that would receive creative encouragement.

Be careful of any VC that would take issue with creative direction decisions. It is important that you and they know that they are the money, you are the talent. If they had the talent and the idea, they'd be bootstrapping your business themselves. There are only so many hours in the day, and irons in the fire. You have all the hours of the day to spend on one iron in your fire. A VC has the hours outside of their things to focus on the myriad of irons in their fire.

One last thing: I know you didnt ask, but if you start to circle the drain and nobody is wanting to invest, dont get desperate and take money from family, people you care about, or especially people who arent a professional VC. Youre going to be afraid to take the chances and leaps necessary to deliver a possible return on their money and success to your concept. Similarly, small VCs can be a hinderance in the way that you're their one horse, and bigger startups havent delivered the returns that would relax them into trusting their instinct and letting their investment be a catalyst rather than a shackle.

VC money is not like kickstarter where it means they have input. That is what board seats are for, and the more money people you put there, and the less industry people you put there, the harder it will be to explain industry concepts which frankly shouldnt be your job.

Dont take VC money for a game. Be broke for a while, work a job, grind it out in your free time. Youll thank yourself. Research Bay12games.


> The only true safety is being a solo founder, which is why solo founders are encouraged to find a cofounder.

Aha, that's a mystery solved. Luckily no one would be crazy enough to cofound. And I've heard the same thing about games not receiving VC money. There's the metaverse pitch, but that's just a stampede.

Thank you for taking the time to detail your advice here! That was tremendously helpful. Great point about creative decisions, family/friends, and small firms. This may all help people reading it more than you'll know.

I'm 10 years in and could learn a lot from Dwarf Fortress. Including how to use composable components (most Roguelikes seem to).


As cliche as it sounds, don't beat yourself up about taking time to make the product that most accurately matches the one in your heart. The best games are the ones that had a vision and went for it without compromising on their ideals along the way for money.


Hi Richard, I'd like to donate towards retiring the debt you've personally guaranteed. How can I do this?

Thanks for trying, it's more than most do. My genuine condolences you were unable to maintain traction due to the macro.

(agree with 0des' sibling comment, hibernate the effort vs this being the death of it)


Just to state the obvious, do this after he's negotiated down any debts if possible.


I'd be up for helping with this as well


Same. GoFundMe?


Same. Richard, you & your startup were one of the most memorable from our batch. So sorry to hear this news. I suspect there are other founders that feel the way Mike and I do.


Thank you, brother


+1. Would strongly encourage a gofundme for this. I know many HNers including myself would be happy to pitch in to help retire any debt you have remaining from this.


Thanks but I'm going to gratefully decline.


Hi Richard - I'd like to donate as well to help you retire your debt.

I'm sorry the company didn't work out but I am so happy there are people like you in this world doing such a good thing. I hope there is a way to resurrect your project in future.


Does advertising your willingness publicly make it harder for him to negotiate?


^ Good question. I'm wondering this as well. Curiosity is a good thing, especially on HN.


In anice world, it it could also serve as an example and help with negotiating.

Depends who gave the money.


Thanks, Too, for your kind offer. I don't think I could accept charity, but am gratified by the offer. Richard


For anyone in the thread wondering how a felon might get ahead...

Im a formerly incarcerated software engineer. I now run a non-profit org called Underdog Devs dedicated to getting formerly incarcerated people into software engineering jobs.

We have over 450 members. We experienced engineers from all over the industry that will guide you. We also have a program called Project Underdog where we offer a stipend to pay their bills and have them pair program all week long with various mentors. Its led by the brilliant Jessica McKellar and has proven to be better than any bootcamp or CS program ive experienced.

Reach out if you would like some support.

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs


Wow. Thanks for sharing. Congrats on your personal story of redemption, and for all the good you've done for others. I'm impressed and moved. Agreed w others here, recommend hibernation if possible.

On a recidivism-related tangent, a close friend of mine runs a nonprofit called "Guitars Behind Bars" -- https://guitarsbehindbars.com -- which does like it says on the tin, providing instruments and a musical outlet to convicts. It's had profound positive effects on the inmates who've participated (and their jailers/wardens, too). Bringing it up here bc stories about helping ex-convicts don't often feature on the HN front page.

Power to you, Richard. Keep fighting the good fight, and thank you for being a light for others.


Thanks for the support, Chris


> When it hit in force in March 2020, companies made wholesale terminations of nearly all our people, and continued their halt in hiring for two years.

Is this because the people you were representing were mostly in sectors affected by the pandemic (travel, restaurant, etc), or were they were mostly "contingent workforce" jobs that are first to be cut?


I’m not a felon but get so upset at our current system that tries to pretend to care about people with records but in actuality leaves them to rot.

I’m a business owner and my first employee and current operations manager is a felon. I knew this prior as I worked with him before, before starting my own business. He ended up in that position and doing 3 years of prison because America for a lot of people sucks. It sucked for him and he was in a position where it was either do felonious things or be homeless. So he made an obvious choice.

He’s struggled with work since then, because as soon as they see felon they tend to disregard him. It sucks. I know his case isn’t standard, but it also isn’t rare. Society treats these people like lepers and I hope the tides change on this, or we get actual criminal reform. Because what we’ve got right now OP’s business should have went under because it wasn’t needed anymore. But that’s not the case.


>It sucked for him and he was in a position where it was either do felonious things or be homeless.

Can you elaborate? Cause this seems like extremely poor decision making on his part. If you are in sound mind (i.e not an addict), there is a lot you can do to avoid homelessness and be in a much better situation.


What you have done, take on a seriously hard problem that has real benefits for marginalised people and society as a whole, is exactly the type of risky innovation that we need more of. Pause, heal, and come back again.


As a current prisoner who is yet to be released, let me say thank you for everything you've done.

I've spent the last 9 years around felons and it is sad as most of them never had a chance in life, being born either into an environment that practically guaranteed incarceration, or being born with mental health issues that this nation fails to treat and instead incarcerates.


Just a question, when you do get released, what do you plan on doing? Are there government programs to train in certain areas?


Sadly almost no programs apply to me because I've never been convicted of a crime. Most programs are only available to felons. There are almost no support structures for those who have spent years locked up in pre-trial detention. I was behind bars for the first 8 years, but for the last year I've been locked in a room in a house instead, but that at least gave me Internet access. I've been doing my best to try to make as much money as I can doing gig work online. Ironically one of the first jobs I got was transcribing recorded jail phone calls, then police interrogations, then court room transcripts. Talk about PTSD.


A felony on your record might as well be a gang tattoo on your face.

First I'm hearing of you unfortunately, but thank you so much for your contribution to this terrible issue so many face.

You not only changed many people pull themselves back up, but you put an imprint on the world that yes, people with criminal backgrounds in their past as just as worthy of opportunities as anyone else.

Wish you the best going forward and, if it's the right path for you to walk, wish you luck trying again.

And post your next endeavors on HN more, I'd love to hear about it ;)


Thanks, I will


Sorry to hear about this. It seems like a wonderful altruistic service.

Were you able to apply for PPP (and other covid related) loans / grants? I feel like of all businesses, yours should have been easy to get something like that.


Yes, we did get some PPP money, and it sustained us for some time, but it dried up quickly. Thanks for your comment and your kind words.


[flagged]


I took it to mean 'dried up suddenly'.

Sustained for a while, and then suddenly you realize that's the end of that.


I'm not even from the US but props to you man. I know some words from random internet people don't fix the situation but to me you're an inspiration. Hopefully, some day, with some more money, wiser and with skills that I'm lacking, I can make a company to solve a real problem like you did.

It's sad that the amount of money floating around doesn't pour into a company like yours.


> It's sad that the amount of money floating around doesn't pour into a company like yours.

money is put where profits are

this seems like a low-margin low-profit business

it’s not the investors who are the problem, it’s the capitalist system which encourages this behavior


Namely also the American capitalist system that encourages mass incarceration with little to no reintegration plans


How? The larger the workforce is available, the cheaper it is to fill a role. Nobody outside of prisons, a tiny part of the economy, has it in their best interest to reduce the workforce.


Richard,

When I think of the great people I met from our batch, you’re at the top of the list. Your passion and gratitude were contagious. I was always rooting for you and I will continue to do so. That letter you wrote to the entire batch at the culmination of our YC experience remains one of the great missives I’ve received. You’re top shelf, sir!

Onward! Steven


Thx Bro-hope all is well


> we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

Can you clarify: Were the employees of your 70MR organization hesitant to return to work and quitting after a few days? Or were the people who requested your services quitting jobs several days after placement?


The inundation came from large national employers desperate to fill jobs. The job seekers became much more selective.


After lurking for years I created an account just to reply to this post and to say thank you. I’ve never gone to jail/prison but I know many who have and I’ve always wanted to figure out a way to help them gain employment and housing upon leaving prison. You did what I wanted to do & I love knowing that someone out there gave a damn and tried. I’m sure you’ll succeed in your future endeavors but once again, thank you for trying my friend.


Thanks for your Service, Richard.

I do know that there's a chap from Florida that has done something similar. I can't remember exactly what his HN handle was, but we had a rather prickly exchange, some time back.

If you are interested in providing services like this in the future, he might not be a bad person to team up with.

I wish you (and he) the very best of luck, in your future endeavors. I'm pretty big on that ol' "second chance" thing.

[EDITED TO ADD] This article is interesting. What makes it even more interesting, is the author of the article (It's NYT, so there may be a paywall): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/opinion/clean-slate-incar...

[EDITED TO ADD (2)] The person I mentioned is one of your replies. He runs Underdog Devs: https://www.underdogdevs.org/


Richard it is better to have failed at this than to succeed at a lot of easier things.

I found 70 million jobs inspirational and I'm proud of the work you did.

Someday someone else will move this idea a little further down the field.


thanks for your support


Oh this is heartbreaking. I remember reading about your company and mission and fully supporting it (while not fiscally). I’m a huge fan of hiring the right people, no matter their background.

This is truly sad. I think the business model is still high in demand but maybe not right now as companies all over are paring down expenses and tightening coffers.

Bravo! I sincerely hope you try again.


TY!


>There was no opportunity to raise additional funding, so I began injecting my own money into the company—money I barely have—just to keep the lights on.

Honestly curious: If your company managed to become profitable and has been operating since 2016, how were you not able to generate enough business or personal income to sustain the company further from the point you describe above? I'm sorry if it's an invasive question, but to me the idea of running a profitable business for several years and that still not being enough to have earned a decent life/business cushion is seriously demotivating for entrepreneurship effort.

Edit: sorry to hear about the closure too. Your service seems like a genuinely wonderful thing, and especially in a country like the U.S, with often grotesquely punitive attitudes towards people with criminal records.


Ironically, we only achieved operational profitability in Feb 2020 (one month before we were walloped by the pandemic)


Why on Earth are you shutting down rather than offering discounted tech help on a nationwide scale??? I have to put up some static sites and transfer domains and a bunch of icky stuff and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say there are lots of folks like me who can't afford full priced, massive rfps, but would love to be able to buy just what we need-piece by piece or hour by hour at a reasonable price from workers right here in the US. Workify.co used to offer this but the founder pivoted and sold before I could ever use them.

Also so many need social media help, getting online for the first time...so small businesses don't even have websites or accurate info on their pages.

I think a simple site where you offer whatever services you can perform: tech, landscaping, painting etc at some some of discount for pre-sale would really surprise you with how well it does. No seems to want to do anything...and if you have such a large workforce that actually wants to work, then you have a goldmine. Things still need to be done desperately.

You can find an idea of services from looking at workify.cos old pages on archive.org. And pivoting isn't just for tech firms...you moving to provide service directly would come with some challenges, but you seem like you could handle them.

I noticed from your zip code that you are in San Francisco, have you consider a sale or merger with Labor Ready or something similar?


The larger fight continues, to treat people who have been to prison with dignity and respect.


Perhaps put fewer people in prison to start with


Perhaps build a social system so that people won’t have to resort to crime in order to survive and progress in life


“These are some of the most sincere, honest, and heroic people I’ve ever met.”

Yeah, I think we’re too hard as a nation on ex-cons. But they’re not heroes because they went through self-imposed hardships (and almost always at the expense of someone innocent). And they’re certainly among the lower rungs of honesty by categorization. Nowhere near the top.

If this sounds harsh, just act their victims.


America is so strange. On one hand, nearly everyone thinks the system doesn't work. And yet, they tacitly assume the justice system works. They think it works just like on TV - innocent until proven guilty, detail-oriented public defenders and judges, and scrupulously honest prosecutors and police.

It's nothing like that. The justice system is a machine that chews people up, and spits out convicts, and it operates with impunity precisely because of ignorant views like yours. Getting arrested or convicted is like winning a shit lottery, and all you need to win is to be around a cop having a bad day. Since very few people are "winners", so the knowledge of the real system is minimized, and the knowledgeable ones are marginalized and ignored because they are, after all, convicts.

People break the law and do so with impunity all day long. In fact, they get paid well to do it. Your typical family law attorney should be arrested, tried and convicted, and they've destroyed countless families, harmed countless children. But they are pillars of the community. So just because someone got punished by these corrupt people doesn't make them evil, it makes them unlucky.

(In fairness I'd estimate that 90% of arrests/convictions/plea deals are straightforward, valid and basically fair, and those convicts often are repeat offenders, low intelligence, struggling with addiction and mental health. They deserve a chance too, but it's the 10% who get swept up for breaking no law, or breaking needlessly punitive laws, that I particularly feel for. You know, the Aaron Swartz's of the world.)


I think you basically answered your own objection. Probably 90% of convicted criminals are really criminals, and that's why people are suspicious of hiring them. The point of this project wasn't "get convicts hired because 10% of them are innocent", it was "get convicts hired because even though 90% of them are guilty, that's okay." It's called "70 million" because that's the total number of convicts, not an estimate of how many are innocent. And the founder himself is an ex-con, and he admits that he's actually guilty, and the crime he committed actually harmed people, it wasn't a corrupt prosecutor or a bogus drug law.


Not sure where that 90/10 ratio comes from...

wondering what you know about how many cases are decided by plea bargain rather than trial, where the plea bargain is coerced rather than voluntary?

wondering also what your opinion is of felony drug convictions (for possession)? Technically a crime, but can you name the harm?

But more seriously wondering about your unwillingness to believe that people can change, and unwillingness to allow for redemption or forgiveness.

Which ultimately means you don't believe in justice. If society has decided that a certain crime has a penalty of 5 years in prison, then after 5 years the person has paid their debt to society. They are no longer a criminal, that debt is paid.


>Not sure where that 90/10 ratio comes from...

From the previous poster.

>wondering also what your opinion is of felony drug convictions (for possession)?

I'd be fine with a project to get people convicted of felony drug or other nonviolent, victimless, crimes hired, and run by someone with such a conviction. This was not that project.

>But more seriously wondering about your unwillingness to believe that people can change,

It's a matter of the odds. People who have committed genuine crimes are greater risks. They can change, but we don't know that they've changed.

>They are no longer a criminal, that debt is paid.

Being rationally distrusted as a risk is a consequence of their crime, not a form of punishment; it's not done because of a desire to inflict suffering on the criminal, but to avoid harm.

>How have you changed your life based on the hurts you have caused others?

I've gone my life without committing a large scale financial fraud or similar act which hurt others to that degree.


> And the founder himself is an ex-con, and he admits that he's actually guilty, and the crime he committed actually harmed people.

And the founder realized that his actions cause real harm, that hurting people is bad, and decided to dedicate his life to acts that did not hurt people.

He repented.

How have you changed your life based on the hurts you have caused others? Do you even admit that your actions have hurt others? Because I guarantee that you have caused pain, and harm.

I wonder if you know what true repentance is.


I agree with this. The justice system is fucked up. I’ve been arrested myself, so this isn’t some punitive viewpoint looking in from outside.

My point is that I don’t agree with labeling someone convicted of a crime as being among society’s most heroic or honest. That’s just a laughably ridiculous statement.


> In fact, they get paid well to do it. Your typical family law attorney should be arrested, tried and convicted, and they've destroyed countless families, harmed countless children.

I was with you up until this. While I understand the view that what many attorneys do is immoral or wrong - generally speaking to my knowledge there isn't widespread illegal behavior?

I understand but don't fully agree with the view that laywers are "evil" - but the way I see it is they are skilled at playing by the rules of the law. This makes them incredibly powerful (for both sides of people that can afford it), but if they are generally playing by the law - thus not arrestable. Tearing a family apart because the mother is an A hole and lies about things the father does might be immoral - but it's not illegal for an attorney to represent them.


>While I understand the view that what many attorneys do is immoral or wrong - generally speaking to my knowledge there isn't widespread illegal behavior?

From my own experience, and the attorneys I've talked to, and the other fathers/husbands, certain practices are rampant. False allegations of abuse are regularly made by the female, which grant injunctions/TROs, ex parte, which are then used to withhold children. Perjury is never prosecuted. Not ever. Judges don't care about timelines, and regularly ignore the statutory limits on holding hearings, meaning that a TRO can be in effect indefinitely without a single hearing. Judges regularly don't read motions, do not rule on them.

Time is on the side of the most shameless liar. Both attorneys make more money in this kind of case, because it takes time, its very litigious. Both attorneys have every incentive to not just not deescalate, but escalate the situation. If you are representing yourself, they will try to overwhelm you with paperwork - my wife had one attorney who would, instead of filing motions, would keep appending to a single motion and resubmitting the entire omnibus. They filed invalid motions, they filed hearsay. The entire premise of the actions were to delay, keep the kids, increase the pain until I gave into all demands. From what I've heard, this is a common tactic, because it works. To hold out means to give up your kids for years. Everything, and I mean everything here, is in violation of statute, and no-one in power gives two fucks. Plus at the end of it they count on the fact that you're too exhausted to pursue any kind of remedy, and in fact your faith in the system has been so destroyed that you're convinced that it would do no good anyway. Like I said, they do it because it works.


There are many, many victimless crimes that people are unreasonably incarcerated for.


fuck offffff seriously.

The hardships aren't self-imposed, our justice system is specifically and intentionally retributive, imposing punishment for its own sake rather than imposing consequences with the goal of rehabilitation. And we're talking here of additional ad-hoc social punishments beyond the terms of the sentence that make finding a job harder.

The level of personal discipline it takes to get released and stay "good" on probation is far beyond what we expect from workers in general and almost certainly stricter than either of us requires for ourselves. The level of humility and, frankly, debasement it takes to find a willing employer with a felony conviction is if not heroic at least saintly.


The level of personal discipline it takes to get released and stay "good" on probation is far beyond what we expect from workers in general and almost certainly stricter than either of us requires for ourselves.

Yeah, it's part of the corrections system. You go on probation or parole and they keep you on a leash. It's intentional. If you don't like it, you can serve out the whole term.

"Saintly". For god's sake people. Listen to yourselves. How many cars I gotta jack before people start calling me a saint, anyway?


The "saintly" is not because they committed a crime, it is because they are willing to endure a "level of humility and, frankly, debasement it takes to find a willing employer" instead of going out and jacking a car.

They have to put up with people with opinions like yours, which do not allow them any hope of redemption.

I wonder what you are like when you need forgiveness? I do hope you get some, and even more that it opens your eyes and heart.


You might argue that the hardships imposed by the justice system aren't self-imposed. But this was about hiring criminals. Aside from certain special cases (like laws which prohibit hiring felons for certain jobs). any hardship that results because someone won't hire the criminal is self-imposed; the criminal's own actions are why potential employers don't trust him.


> The hardships aren't self-imposed, our justice system is specifically and intentionally retributive

If you want to know why this is, I would recommend Discipline and Punish by Foucault. Our present systems of justice go back hundreds of years, when a crime was considered an attack on the sovereign, aka the King, or the Prince. Back then crimes were punished by Hanging, or Torture, and it was done as an exercise of terror. The primary purpose of this wasn't the prevention of crime (Do you really think royalty cared if peasants killed each-other?), but rather punishment for disobeying the King.

All modern systems of Law are essentially still medieval systems, and it's why crimes that happen exclusively between two people are prosecuted as Person v. State of Whatever. The process of justice isn't for the criminal, it's to remind the rest of us of the total power of the State.


That's a very interesting historical viewpoint of the justice system. I've often wondered what in our culture (in the US at least) lead to such a draconian system. I think the thing I take issue with most isn't even the system proper itself as much as the culture around it: stripping felons of voting rights (in a country billing itself as the "Land of the Free"), using prisoners as slave labor (we have protected slavery in the bill of rghts!), and treating them almost like lepers after they have served their sentence/punishment. It's sickening.


>Do you really think royalty cared if peasants killed each-other?)

Kinda hard to raise an army to fight the adjacent royal when one town's contingent hates some other town's contingent more than they hate the enemy.

But yeah, they mostly let the peasants do whatever so long as the particular whatever wasn't potentially bad for them.


>it's why crimes that happen exclusively between two people are prosecuted as Person v. State

That's to eliminate the inter-generational blood feud's that were previously common when it wasn't the case that violent crimes were crimes against the state.


we are always looking for folks such as yourself to help with underdog devs.

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs


Right on, G!


Wish I had heard about 70million before this post. As many other commenters have mentioned, I too am happy to make a donation to keep your lights on and your mission alive. The biggest tragedy in America is the wholesale disenfranchisement of millions of people due to incarceration.


thank you


Have you considered contacting "Homeboy Industries". It seems like what you have would be a good fit to help them scale their org. https://homeboyindustries.org/


We're very friendly w/them. One of their leaders sits on our Advisory Board. Thx


It really saddens me to hear this. It was an honor to get to know you as batchmates. Your passion and drive for 70MR made a mark upon me.

I know that this is just another beginning for you, full of new opportunities, and that you will continue to help and inspire people. Godspeed!


Thx, Mark


I think your idea was sound, and the company just got hit by a bad set of economic and global circumstances. I hope you'll consider restarting a similar venture once things improve, a stronger one having learned the lessons from the first go around.


I just sent you an email from sara@northpinefoundation.ca in case it goes to your junk folder


«Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.»

Something i was arguing in another post and all you tech warriors sitting in your desk chairs didn’t think it could be true.

People are lazy


Have you considered converting to a non-profit? I'd support that financially.


Richard - thank you for sharing your journey with us.

Your work and achievements are an inspiration, even now.

Sometimes progress really is one person at a time. You & your team changed the lives of millions.

My own social startup failed. It is so hard to watch your dream, all that you are, die.

All I can pass on is that your journey is not done & taking good care of yourself is how you’ll be able to take it.

My sincere wish is that you allow your karma balance to settle.

You deserve to enjoy life, to do work you find meaningful, and to be remembered for your contributions.

You overcame incredible odds time & again. If anyone has proven investment in second chances make a difference, you have.


Your words have moved me. Thank you


> When the economy and job market began storming back, we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

I don't know what's possible for you financially and how much runway you might have left, but if you can stick around a bit longer, the coming economic turbulence is a prime time to reinvigorate the business.


statement 1 - "These are some of the most sincere, honest, and heroic people I’ve ever met."

statement 2 - "And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days."


Is leaving a job we're you're not a good fit not sincere and honest, as opposed to slacking until fired? Is accepting to leave your own job and source and revenue when you know it's necessary despite the difficulty it will create for you, especially when in a difficult situation like an ex con, not heroic?


In my experience that is more a commentary on how bad the workplace is than the workers.


Have you considered reorganizing as a not-for-profit and then seeking funding from foundations or combination of croud sourcing plus foundations.

You have a proven model and track record - clients that need support and businesses that are willing to participate. Well defined funding needs and a well defined road map for expanding your network nationally.

This way your idea gets to live on, you get to stay involved with your dream project, you get paid (and made whole as a creditor).


I've thought about it


I am usually very cynical when I hear about companies with good intentions. This however touched every string of my heart. You do not have to be so humble as you've done an amazing and honorable job. You helped people to get out of that death spiral where fucked-up Government on par with some big corporations are trying to keep them in.

To them - rot in hell fucking vultures.

To you - thanks and praise for what you've done and best luck for whatever you do in the future.


thx, FP


Sorry to hear. Sounds like a great service.

But curious about this...

> When the economy and job market began storming back, we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

Why were they leaving after only a few days when before they weren't?


Probably because the wages are very low and the work loads way too high. Some link: "How the current worker shortage is really a wage shortage" https://www.nynmedia.com/content/opinion-how-current-worker-...

"It’s not a labor shortage — it’s a wage and workers rights shortage" https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/570441-its-not-a-labor-s...

"Our employment system has failed low-wage workers. How can we rebuild?" https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/04/28/our-emplo...


Is this new?


I don't think it's new, but a lot of people got a taste of what life is like when they aren't breaking their back for minimum wage thanks to the pandemic


my spitballed guess- people who were working retail type jobs werent able to during the pandemic and then realized, hey, this is optional. I survived without working a shitty job for poverty wage. Why go back?


You have as rare a courage as Steve Jobs and others if you'd ask me. The only startup I remembered in a long time if that count. I sincerely hope you've had fun and that you'll keep enjoying your life. Speaking of which Id recommend to laugh it a good time and move on. Dont play what if and Cluedo because you are exactly where you should be, in a positive way.

The past doesnt matter, only the present moment does and it's wonderful.


Thx, Quad


I'm sorry for the outcome. This is is quite a gracious post given the circumstances.

Do you think with the Fed fighting inflation and the jobs market potentially turning in a year or so from now, that going into hibernation and relaunching when the economy has more need for this would make sense?

Asking for a friend who launched a two sided jobs marketplace for a niche market a few months ago and has a heck of a hard time attracting job seekers.


If you can find a way to go on life support for a little while - perhaps just shut down temporarily, then it will pay off, I think.

Over the next few months to a couple of years:

- Interest rates will keep going up and Quantitative tightening will happen.

- There will be a recession.

- A lot of people who resigned greatly will be broke and in need of work.

- Your services will be needed, and in a big way.

The person who finds what they love to do is rare, but the person who finds their calling is rarer still.


Have you considered switching to a non-profit? I am not saying for-profit is bad but you may have more avenues for fund raising as a non-profit.

Alternatively, gofundme for this would be very successful I would assume. You could also think of a some sort of corporate sponsorship. Corporates can write off for supporting program like this. Again, non-profit here would help a lot.


> companies made wholesale terminations of nearly all our people

The "employment at will" doctrine at work. Terrible.

I would attribute that to the weak US labor, and its failure to do away with this via country-wide/industry-wide labor agreements make this impossible, or appropriate legislation. Many (most?) countries don't have this doctrine.


And they are nowhere near as liquid when it comes to employment as in the US. The trade off of not having employment at will is extremely slow hiring processes and a lot of difficulty when firing employees that do not perform well. All in all employment at Will is probably what makes Silicon Valley thrive. Otherwise nobody would dare to start a company.


> The trade off of not having employment at will is extremely slow hiring processes

Not true. Countries without employment-at-will don't generally have extremely slow hiring processes.

> a lot of difficulty when firing employees that do not perform well

Termination for cause - i.e. failure to perform one's duties well enough - is not difficult. The difficulty would be in firing employees without demonstrable cause.


Why are sites that should be self sufficient shut down? It's a place where people can post jobs and find jobs. Why must it end? As long as the server bill is paid. I am sure [money bag types] even on this forum would pay this if the bill was published.

If not can you give permission to scape and re-release it?


the job board is not the issue. it's a tiny part of our business. our staffing company is where we had lots of success, and it is enormously labor-intensive


Thank you. I am also sorry!


Congrats to you Richard for what you achieved, and I wish you the best in finding a role that will help you stabilize and continue.

There are very strange earthquakes and disconnects happening in the labor market right now and I appreciate seeing this honest perspective on the reality you were trying to change.


ty


I'm genuinely sad to read this, even while I am so very impressed by the grace and integrity that you are demonstrating. I'm going to save this as an example of how to do hard things, right.

This is hard, but it's clear that the world has not heard the last of you.

Indeed, the world might not deserve you.


Your going out of business doesn't undo the great things you did for all those people who needed that second chance.

Turns out, for instance, Halcyon Molecular was similar, it went bust losing tons of money but it let me get a decent wage after all the employment discrimination I suffered for standing up to torture (false imprisonment, so very similar, had a gap in my resume I couldn't explain because I didn't realize there was an April in 2009, it just hurt to think about that moment in my life). That $20-an-hour job allowed me to create abnormal speedups for many algorithms, leading to https://fgemm.com, which I'm working on now.

It was my second chance. And it created the tech it was meant to, just not the way the investors expected.

EDIT: can't reply to selimthegrim except here, at the limit of posts. I will get it working. I know it's not up yet, it's coming soon. Currently ironing out the algorithms instead.


Your link isn’t working.


Because I'm not a software engineer it won't work until it's ready. It's getting there. The algorithms are ready, though. In the meantime, look at https://skylinesort.com


> Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

If I'm reading this right, there's an immense amount of unemployment fraud suppressing ex-convict workforce re-entry.


I sent you an email from sara@northpinefoundation.ca in case it went to your junk folder


I'm really sorry to hear that your company's good work is coming to an end. I wish you all the best in your future career and I hope you are able to find new ways to help address the needs of this community of people.


ty


I'm not American, so perhaps this is why I never heard of the service. However, it would be better if it was acquired rather than shut down. I mean, it seems like a just cause and people would suffer without it.


> Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

I don't know enough about your business. Why does employee mobility hurt you?


when you run a staffing business, you count on worker retention


Why don't you open source it and pay for hosting costs via donated funds instead of just shutting down completely? How much money does it really take to host a job web site anyways?


Please add a donation link, even if it just goes to your debts, you did God's work.

One could imagine if we didn't scar people with lifelong records how many would integrate back into society.


Whoever profits from the private jail system is probably celebrating now the potential influx of new "customers" in their "hotels".


> so I began injecting my own money into the company—money I barely have—just to keep the lights on.

I'm never doing this again

If you need another data point


Sad to hear this, and appreciate your efforts.


Potentially could reboot the startup after the downturn with your learnings, seems like something that really should exist.


Love the vision, respect the dedication, thanks for the inspiration! A true gentleman and scholar tips hat.


consider my hat doffed as well


This is truly a sad time. You were doing such good work, and I'm sorry you're suffering through this.


ty


This ruined my whole day. What a tragedy.


you should be proud of yourselves

i'm sure your company will be missed by those who you helped get new opportunities in life

it's better to try and fail changing the world, than never try, live a meaningless, unfulfilling, but comfortable life

you gave a shot, but i'm sure you didn't run out of ammo!

try again next time!


Very sad this didn't work out. This story rings of the old saying: no good deed goes unpunished.


Just chiming in to say I really hope this gets rescued. Everyone deserves a second chance.


Dude. You did a good thing. I hope you get to make the sequel when the time is right.


Thanks for all your work on this project. Very inspiring what you set out to do.


ty


This is sad, I hope you or someone else will start that again in another form.


Why do you think they are quitting after a few days on the job?


Really sorry to hear this. Good luck with your next endeavor


ty


Might be worth trying to sell, rather than close the doors?


Thank you for trying


Why is 70MillionJobs repeatedly referred to as 70MR?


The parent company of 70 Million Jobs and Commissary Club is 70 Million Resources, Inc.


In the first line of the post

> 70 Million Resources


Ah gotcha. There’s a line break there for me so I didn’t catch it when I went back scanning for an R word.


Thank you for your efforts Richard.


you had a dream and gave it hella shot Richard.

Respect & Gl on your next chapter in life


ty


There's a huge plot hole in the story.

> When the economy and job market began storming back, we were inundated with inbound requests for our services. Our perseverance seemed to be paying off. Except now we were hit with a new gut punch: “The Great Resignation.” Now our workers were reticent to come back to work. And if they did accept a job, they’d often leave after only a few days.

I couldn't understand how "The Great Resignation" made the situation more difficult for 70MJ. I've read the follow up comment[GrRegCm] and it didn't make things any clearer:

> During the Great Resignation, we found it took 10x the time and effort to get someone placed, eroding our already thin margins. Plus, if a worker left (which they began doing at a great rate), we're obligated to replace them. All of this made it pretty much impossible for us to make money. (Again, we're a for-profit business). I hope this clarifies things.

It doesn't.

There's a _sort of_ incoherency and inconsistency here.

On the one hand the "formerly incarcerated" have a hard time (re)-integrating into society. Among other difficulties they struggle harder than others, ceteris paribus, finding a job.

In turn this has, supposedly, certain negative effects like "the pernicious cycles of recidivism in this country--cycles that destroy lives, tear apart families and decimate communities"

That's both the societal issue you set out to improve and what made the for-profit venture viable.

But on the other hand the same "formerly incarcerated" can allow themselves to "often leave after only a few days", "which they began doing at a great rate". I guess the welfare system in the US is quite extensive if people - and not just any people but ex-cons - can allow themselves to quit jobs after a few days with nothing else in the horizon.

I'll qualify all of that and note that, as I wrote above, it's only _sort of_ inconsistent. It's possible that they don't have good alternatives, but they see everyone else quitting, including spoiled and overindulged by 2021 tech sector employees, and think their circumstances apply. Or they don't think but just do what everyone else.

It's also possible that I'm still missing here something and my whole analysis is wrong because of that.

But it's also possible that "The Great Resignation" isn't the reason for the company's failing.

I'm not convinced. If I did miss something I'd be happy to hear.

[GrRegCm]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31600686


Lucky for me, Conich, "convincing you" is relatively low on my list of priorities right now.


What can we do to help?


help someone w/a record. It'll be very good karma for you


sadness. Thanks for the efforts.


Respect


this sucks


Could the title please be changed to something that doesn't sound like HN itself is shutting down? This is incredibly misleading.


Yeah, even just adding the domain to the end of the title would clarify


You gotta mail hn@ycombinator.com with stuff like this; there's no magic that causes admins to get alerts when comments like these are posted.


Adding a “Tell HN:” prefix should do the trick.


Yeah I got a big shock lol.. I'm not sure what 70MR is. Sounds like a parole thing? But it won't affect me. Sorry for those whom it does though!


Can the title be changed to be less clickbaity? Reads like HN is shutting down


> Reads like HN is shutting down.

That'll be the day. I wonder what poor Dan G. and company would do with their lives then?


[flagged]


What is this even supposed to mean?


Really long version. The market finds that this is not a viable business model (at least too vulnerable to economic shocks). I am not unhappy about that, because the alternative scenario where ex criminals who caused harm in one way or other get to be a vulnerable population (marketed that way through this startup) to which companies would give preferential treatment because it looks good to help vulnerable populations, would be a tough pill to swallow for people who have not done anything wrong and will not get a good job as a result. I hope this clears up my point of view.


Never heard of it, but sounds dangerous helping out rapists and murderers and such.


Perhaps, but unless you want a permanent under class of people unable to find real employment, there needs to be an on-ramp. Either someone is too dangerous to have in public (which case they should still be imprisoned), or they have served their sentence and their punishment is over.


To add to this, 45% of people in federal prison are there for a drug charge.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

Only a little over 1/3rd are actually in prison for violent crime.


That's a stat for Federal prisons - it's a completely different set of laws and crimes than state and local laws, and only 10% Americans incarcerated are in federal prisons.

Here's a breakdown by most serious offense for my state's prison system:

https://www.doc.sc.gov/research/InmatePopulationStats/ASOF-M...

Which has 16% drugs, but also:

26% homicide, 12% Robbery, 11% Burglary, 9.5% Rape/Sexual assault, 6.6% Kidnapping, 6.4% Assault.

I wrote an blog post a while back about how prison populations skew so much towards the most violent crimes.

http://braino.org/essays/why_so_many_people_in_prison/


Prison populations skew toward violent crimes because the sentences for them are longer. They aren't representative of the number of convicts.


>Only a little over 1/3rd are actually in prison for violent crime

On that chart, I was a little bit surprised to see the percentages for:

    - category (g) (Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses) and
    - category (l) (Sex Offenses) 
...are as high as they are (although probably not that high in absolute numbers) for federal prison. I wonder where one could find a breakdown of the offenses? I'd have thought the only way to get a federal rape or murder sentence would be to commit the act on an FBI agent or other on-duty federal agent (Secret Service, US Marshals, Postman, others?). But I guess maybe soldiers who have been court-martialed end up in federal prison? That might explain most of those? And maybe kidnapping becomes a federal offense if you cross state lines?


That table looks like it sums to 100%, which is confusing. Many prisoners have been convicted of both drug and weapons charges. How is that represented?

My understanding is that while the rate of prisoners with drug charges is high, the rate of prisoners with only drug charges is a lot lower.


Exactly. I truly hope sowww doesn’t find themselves on the wrong side of the law for the million dumb reasons a person can get arrested and jailed for.


> Perhaps, but unless you want a permanent under class of people unable to find real employment, there needs to be an on-ramp. Either someone is too dangerous to have in public (which case they should still be imprisoned), or they have served their sentence and their punishment is over.

That's not how the "criminal justice system" works. Not in the US and not in most of the rest of the world, especially the "first world"/"Western world".

Prisoners are NOT release only once they are deemed no longer dangerous. They are release once their allotted prison time is over. They can still be dangerous and released, and they can be not dangerous at all from they one and still go to prison.

Also: Choosing to like someone and dislike someone else, choosing whom you assist when not obligated by law and whom you don't, choosing who gets your time and who doesn't - all of this is not part of the punishment people are sentenced to by the state court system and thus it is not "over" in any sense or way once they are release from prison. You, I, and Mr. sowwww are free to volunteer our time, money and efforts towards whom and what we'd like and we're under no obligation to assist people we don't like just because "they have served their sentence and their punishment is over".


In the future, please note the existence of the word "should" before posting angry screeds against something I didn't say.


well said

if you had some free time to volunteer and wanted a mission reach out here....

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs


[flagged]


This register idea amounts to a permanent scarlet letter, and probably is going to have an effect you don't want. What do you think people are gonna do if they are unable to have a normal job?

Just from a harm reduction standpoint, this is a bad idea. You will absolutely increase the amount of crime in the world. I think the world is better when we don't know about all the misdeeds of every random person.




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