Always fascinated by salmon sushi's second class status. Salmon sushi to me is so much more flavorful than tuna. I thought maybe I just wasn't getting great tuna at sushi restaurants in the US, but I found the results to be the same in Tokyo.
In my experience salmon is fairly consistently delicious, it is difficult to have a bad tasting piece, while tuna can vary from kind of gross fishy taste to amazing, with flavor more complex than any salmon sashimi I have ever had.
That’s influenced by fattiness more than anything, I think.
I used to think I hated tuna sashimi. Oftentimes it ranged from slightly metallic to that stereotypically overly fishy flavor, and had zero mouthfeel except for what I could describe as a watery gel.
Then I tried a piece of highly marbled tuna. It was like a buttery slice of steak—a meaty flavor that filled my mouth. Every piece of similarly marbled tuna has tasted just as good.
Generally, salmon sashimi has some good fatty marbling as well, so I think that also contributes to its good flavor. Cheap tuna cuts have virtually zero fat and so there’s no flavor to be had.
Fatty farmed salmon is really not good, nor good for you.
In singapore I avoided buying salmon due to it being 100% farmed salmon. Instead I paid extra for New Zealand King salmon which is partially farmed, better tasting, healthier.
> New Zealand King salmon which is partially farmed
NZer here. I believe the salmon we export is 100% farmed.
The advantages of buying from NZ is that our quality controls are mostly reliable, and our water tends to be pretty clean, and we have reasonably good environmental controls. We mostly farm Chinook/King salmon.
As a sweeping generalisation, NZers are mostly honest, and we tend not to hustle to the point of deception. The cheapest brand of sliced translucent cold smoked Salmon is NZD10 (USD7) for 180g (0.4lb) at the supermarket. Note that NZ prices for most supermarket food is very expensive compared with the US, except sometimes are primary products can be cheaper.
I guess you're right. Salmon isn't native to NZ and I believe we only have 1 species. However the way it's farmed in NZ vs the rest of the world is quite different as we use our fresh water rather than onland farms, and because plans to extend the freshwater farms were cancelled we are able to keep our water cleaner as we have fewer farms and no overpopulating.
Gosh, "watery gel" nails it. I thought there was something wrong with me because I just couldn't see the appeal of garden variety akami sashimi. And I loved most salmon. I did have otoro and chutoro at a high-end place and that was a completely different experience. But other than that, I just don't like plain jane tuna.
Salmon has highly variable quality. The best salmon, in my opinion, is high-latitude wild Pacific salmon e.g. the kind that often comes from Alaska. If you've ever tasted salmon side-by-side from various latitudes just along the coast of western North America, the change in quality as a function of latitude is unmistakable. New Zealand also produces respectable salmon. I've never had salmon from the Atlantic basin that compares to the best of the Pacific basin.
There are several different species of salmon, and the heuristics are dependent on the species. I eat a lot of salmon (I live in Seattle where fresh high-quality salmon is abundant) but largely restrict myself to northern Alaskan King and Sockeye. Those two species of the fish are both premium examples at opposite ends of the character spectrum.
As sashimi, a fresh salmon from a top-quality fishery is quite good. It is often difficult to find top-quality salmon at sushi joints in many parts of the world. Whether or not random salmon or random tuna is better depends on where you are, often as a function of how close you are to high quality fisheries.
Sockeye is a delicacy. I love it on its own, prepared just about any way.
Here’s hoping we find ways to restore their populations. It’s gotten to the point that I practically feel guilty eating them, knowing the fishery is practically imploding.
In general, we should indeed try to eat less fish -- just as we should try to eat less farmed meat -- particularly the high-up-the-food-chain species like salmon, and any seafood that is fished with destructive methods like bottom trawling. The effects on the earth's ecosystems of our industrial fishing practices are absolutely devastating.
Spring Chinook, out of the Columbia, are the best tasting salmon imo. The fat taste sweet and zero fishy taste. I am biased, I used to live near the Columbia and would catch fresh chinook every open season.
I always found it strange that I really like salmon sushi/sashimi, but don't really care for cooked salmon. For some reason cooked salmon tastes too... heavy. I realize that's probably the fat content, but for whatever reason it doesn't bother me raw.
Have you had Fatty Tuna? OToro? It is super flavorful and luscious, much more so than the leaner cuts of Tuna. In my experience most tuna in sushi places and rolls is Akami (which is good, but not as flavorful).
Taking Momotaro as a sort of baseline for high-end but not Omakase-only sushi in Chicago, akami is $7 ($14), chutoro is $11 ($22) and otoro $13 ($26). The otoro will melt, but the chutoro will have the same texture as the sake and the akami will be leaner and have more texture; all 3 are maguro, and all 3 are more expensive than sake. :)
I prefer sake to akami and chutoro; it is hard to beat otoro.
I can see how sake is a gateway fish! But the implication seems to be that instead of eating salmon, for the real deal we should be eating bluefin. That seems dumb; both salmon and bluefin are pretty boring, they all occupy sort of the same place in Japanese cooking as sesame chicken does in American Chinese food. Everything else is better!
Everything is a spectrum but I've eaten kaitenzushi in Japan that cost 1100-2500JPY per person that would have cost 5-10x that outside Japan and wouldn't have been nearly as good.
I've found salmon and tuna can approach the level that might be passable in Japan but everything else (swordfish, mackerel, crab, clam etc etc) are whole leagues better in Japan than outside.
I currently live in Singapore where the sushi is actually pretty good but definitely not as good as Japan.
Truth is more nuanced than that. Japanese have a native word 'sake' for the native salmon that is hardly eaten nowadays. They definitely use the word sake for imported salmon too, especially if its cooked ( because thats how they usually eat the ol native salmon too) They tend to call raw salmon 'sahmon' though.
I dont know if its a folk wisdom but the following article claims that when they hear the word sake they think of that old native salmon.
Sort of like when you might call any old man 'Gramps' but when you hear 'Gramps' you think of your own grandfather?
Not everyone likes the same stuff! I also generally prefer salmon to tuna though I appreciate a chu-toro from time to time. For melt in mouth, uni takes the crown (otters again demonstrating they have life figured out better than people)
I don’t know what it is, but I don’t care for it. I love plenty of other fish raw, and love tuna when cooked. Salmon I generally have no problem with raw.
Yeah, this is the detail that is almost unheard of in the US. Grades of tuna. The bright red stuff that is so common is a dim shadow of what is possible with tuna.
On the other hand, cheap salmon is reliably good for the same reasons the expensive toro is.
Interestingly (ironically?), Norway is not even close to the biggest provider of Salmon in Japan: https://www.maruha-nichiro.co.jp/salmon/data/images/index_ph...
(pink in US, yellow is Canada, between yellow and green is Russia, green is Norway, blue is Chile and dark blue is Other)
Yeah wow well there you go. You know Norwegians own most salmon farming in Chile, don't you?
And let me say also, this validates government export offices. In fact I visited the Japanese Government export office in Santiago, they gave me really valuable information about exporting to Japan where the market for wasabi was at the time. What do you know, you pay taxes and you get back something for it?
> You know Norwegians own most salmon farming in Chile, don't you?
I must say, I didn't even know Chile "produced" salmon until I found that graph, so nothing would surprise me. However, wikipedia pointed me to https://www.terram.cl/2018/11/grupos-extranjeros-pasarian-a-... which doesn't seem to confirm what you're saying, but my spanish is rusty.
Norwegians also owned a lot of farms in Canada! I believe that’s winding down now because the farms causes extensive disease in local wild populations.
>How The Desperate Norwegian Salmon Industry Created A Sushi Staple
This is slightly misleading. Salmon sushi in japan might not have been a thing prior to norway's marketing campaign, but there's plenty of evidence of salmon sushi being a thing outside of japan[1] and being at least somewhat popular. You could argue that if it weren't for acceptance in japan it wouldn't have been a "staple", but that seems a bit tenuous when it was already on magazine covers.
For a rare treat I'll enjoy some salmon, either cooked-from-frozen or as sashimi (preferred, even over otoro). Once I learned more about tuna I see them now as wolves of the sea (rather than chickens) and generally avoid eating animals that are high on a food chain. Sardines, mackerel, and bivalves, along with sea greens of all sorts (wakame, nori, alaria, dulse, kelp, etc) are what I eat more often, in part inspired by Bren Smith's book Eat Like a Fish [0].
Sardines, mackerel, oysters, mussels and sea vegetables... this sounds a lot like me, except I also eat salmon regularly.
My understanding is tuna, especially the premium kinds like blue fin that show up in sushi, is loaded with mercury, PCBs and a lot of other bad news. The deleterious effect (of PCBs in this case) is already showing up in orcas that eat large prey like tuna
https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pcb-pollution-threatens-killer...
eating our way to extinction, which I’d on Amazon prime right now, talks about Norway and the farmed fish system there. Seeing what the farmed fish looked like (they are often not healthy) was kind of gross.
It tastes better likely because it is more fatty. The various toxins in farmed salmon probably accumulate in the fat tissues though, so not sure why you'd think wild is more toxic.
> Overall, they found close to half of the samples were mislabeled (43 percent), and rates of mislabeling were especially higher in restaurants vs. grocery stores (67 percent, vs. 20 percent). The most common form of mislabeling was farmed Atlantic salmon being represented as” wild” salmon. These trends persisted when comparing all of their salmon data (466 samples) spanning over four years.
Without knowing how much salmon is consumed at restaurants via grocery stores, it's hard to validate that "most" wild salmon is actually farmed.
No way for me - I recently was given some line caught wild salmon by a friend (from west of Ireland). It was like a different fish to the usual stuff, absolutely delicious.
New Zealand farmed salmon is the only farmed salmon I will eat, because it is legitimately much higher quality than farmed salmon I have eaten from anywhere else. No idea about safety per se. I have easy access to fresh wild Alaskan salmon and typically eat that from sources with known supply chains. Nonetheless, experience has convinced me that New Zealand produces the only farmed product that is remotely comparable in quality.
New Zealand has a legit below-the-radar farmed salmon business, mostly because their salmon has quality unlike any other farmed salmon I've experienced.
Unlike most places that farm salmon. Nz salmon starts out in the river. Grown to a certain size then moved to farms to finish growing. Farms are not overpopulated. The new born salmon are put back into rivers.
In Norway the salmon farms spend the entire life in the farm. Are fed lots of antibiotics because they get sick. And are overpopulated.
Nz. Is very strict because of 1 person messes up it ruins the reputation of the entire country.
That wouldn't even work. You have to grow salmon in freshwater to a certain size before you can grow them in the sea, it's done in tanks on land here in Norway (the fishery directorate would certainly not let them use rivers).
I worked at the University library when I studied, I remember there was a ton of outdated books from the early development of salmon aquaculture. Salmon farming didn't even succeed until the late 60s, it took a lot longer to make it profitable. They tried a lot of wild stuff, some of it was ecologically questionable to put it mildly (like "havbeite", the idea of forgoing enclosures entirely and just release the smolt to sea, hoping to catch it later).
But regulation has caught up to the industry somewhat. Of course, now the Norwegian owned industry does a lot of the bad stuff it's no longer allowed to do in Norway in Chile instead.
Look at food borne parasite rates for fish in the world, and what percent occur in Japan.
In the US, all fish intended for raw consumption must be frozen in one of two ways that kill any parasites.
In Japan, this is not required.
Salmon is extremely high compared to tuna in parasites. In fact if you eat it regularly cooked, you've almost certainly seen little white worms at some point (though you may have dismissed it as just fat or something). I've found them even in farm raised salmon.
So in an environment where there's no freezing of fish to kill parasites, it's not particularly surprising that fish that more frequently ends up with parasites isn't popular.
In fact, just read over this Wikipedia page, which hits everything from salmon being high in parasites to the impact on raw consumption:
It's all protein in the end as long as it's dead :) . Our ancestors ate so much worse stuff (and better too!) than us and kept procreating and surviving.
A lot of authentic Hawaiian poke places (especially older ones) will become indignant if you ask them if they carry salmon poke. The authentic places look pretty different from what most Americans outside of Hawaii think of as poke. No rice, no toppings. Just fish pre-mixed with sauce and maybe some pickled stuff available on the side.
My apologies. It is not -70C, although it would work. Your expensive deep freezer is the correct tool for the job as long as the fish isn't huge.
> Freezing and storing at an ambient temperature
of -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time),
or freezing at an ambient temperature of -31°F
(-35°C) or below until solid and storing at an
ambient temperature of -31°F (-35°C) or below for
15 hours, or freezing at an ambient temperature of
-31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at an
ambient temperature of -4°F (-20°C) or below for
24 hours are sufficient to kill parasites. Note that
these conditions may not be suitable for freezing
particularly large fish (e.g., thicker than 6 inches).
> Brining and pickling may reduce the parasite
hazard in a fish, but they do not eliminate it,
nor do they minimize it to an acceptable level.
Nematode larvae have been shown to survive
28 days in an 80° salinometer brine (21% salt
by weight).
Fish that contain parasites in their flesh may also
contain parasites within their egg sacs (skeins), but
generally not within the eggs themselves. For this
reason, eggs that have been removed from the sac
and rinsed are not likely to contain parasites.
Trimming away the belly flaps of fish or
candling and physically removing parasites are
effective methods for reducing the numbers
of parasites. However, they do not completely
eliminate the hazard, nor do they minimize it to
an acceptable level.
At least in US markets, the salmon are flash frozen on the fishing vessels which kills the parasites. By the time we see the fish in the market or at the restaurant, there are no live parasites. You can store frozen salmon in your home refrigerator even though its temperature is not so low.
-80C medical freezers start in the $10k range. I used to work at a university hospital where one of the basement hallway walls was lined with low-temp freezers.
I've eaten a lot of raw domestic Japanese salmon, I'm doing ok, probably because as others have said, it's common knowledge it should be frozen before serving.
I never knew this. Salmon is my favorite fish, and salmon sashimi is my favorite sashimi. It’s not the cheapest fish, either, so I guess demand caught up with supply.
Salmon also became a staple in the American diet during the Great Depression, mainly because it was so cheap compared to other sources of animal protein. As Marc Reisner wrote in Cadillac Desert: "People who came through the Depression didn’t just eat salmon, they survived on it, and they were sick of it; it was known as poverty steak, because it sold for ten cents a pound.”
Salmon is not loved in Japan. It’s mostly American sushi restaurants due to more fatty taste and familiarity. It is also largely due to Moonies and the fact that salmon was easy to source in the US.
As someone who lives in Japan happy to say that you’re wrong and sushi places both cheap and expensive serve salmon all the time, and Japanese people order them all the time.
As someone who lives in Japan, it may well be available but it is not LOVED by Japanese people. I'm always amazed how many of my Japanese friends don't eat Salmon sushi.
I'm genuinely curious, what do the Moonies have to do with the history of salmon sushi? I presume you're talking about this group that was founded in Korea, right?
I suggest you google the topic. It's too complicated to comprehensively answer with any one source. But it's indisputable that Norwegian aquaculture is quite heavy on pharmaceutics and that there are environmental issues, both with those chemicals and with the ectoparasites the fish still have. There are documentaries about it.
It does not. It asserts that Norwegian salmon as a food product does not pose a risk to consumers regarding parasites. It doesn't even talk about pharmaceutical use, chemical traces in the flesh or effects on the environment.
I'm not saying that this salmon poses health risks to consumers. But the Norwegian aquaculture industry does use a lot of pharmaceuticals in the open sea water. And the high density contributes to a high propensity for ectoparasites. Both of these things pose an environmental hazard. (I'm a Veterinarian by the way...)
I most want to point out that Norwegian farmed salmon isn't as glorious as it was stated. I'd like to add that this is a predatory species and needs to be fed mostly fish protein to grow profitably. This in turn means the food for the farmed salmon is usually fished out of the sea, too. This is certainly not sustainable and will hopefully be replaced by insect protein (soy doesn't work). But it needs regulatory action, as it is more expensive than harming the ocean...
Salmon sushi also has been popular in Japan. Salmon sushi is not traditional Edomae sushi, but it put on fat as same as tuna and it's great taste. (It come from California roll, American sushi?) For fresh Norway salmon to Japan need Northern Sea route near Russia. I'm praying for peace.
I've been curious for awhile about whether Seattle gets much better salmon sushi than the rest of the country (like: enough that it'd be a reason to seek out Japanese food in Seattle).
Hands down, as a salmon and sushi snob that has lived in Seattle for over a decade and eaten it globally countless times, the salmon available in Seattle is the best available anywhere. The proximity to some of the best and least damaged fisheries in the world helps. I have never eaten so much of it as since I lived in Seattle. It is the only place in the US you can get fresh top-tier salmon (and often many other fish) at the local markets. Everywhere else your options are farmed or frozen salmon of dubious provenance.
And FWIW, Japanese expats I know, not necessarily living in Seattle, seem to confirm that the sushi quality here is exceptional. This is largely a product of geography, being relatively close to both Alaska and Japan.
Oddly enough it is illegal to serve raw wild fish that has not been frozen, in the United States. (Though, there are exceptions for some farming scenarios and some Tuna species)
Anyone trying to tell you they are selling you never frozen sushi is likely lying or violating food code.
See FDA Food Code 2017 3-402.11 Parasite Destruction.
Totally biased but I think Seattle probably has the best sushi on the West Coast for any fish. This article was actually somewhat unexpected to me, as I was always told that one of the main people who made salmon sushi popular was Shiro at Niko/then Shiros. Last time I went to sushi Kashiba (his new place), Shiro served us salmon four ways as our first plate.
I can't speak for the Japanese restaurants, but I had surprisingly delicious salmon nigiri just from a Seattle grocery store chain. Great flavor, and very inexpensive. I think it was a platter of 12 nigiri for what I'd expect to pay for a supermarket salmon maki in New York. This would have been at a QFC around 2015.
This thread has a lot of vague assertions about popularity opposed by very confident, emotionally offended experts backed by anecdotal evidence. Love it
