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Thus Heroku.

Exactly, and Heroku isn't simple.

It's just simple for you, because it places you in an actual end user role. (Which you pay for).

Heroku is no doubt complicated as hell for the people who developed it. So if the argument is that developing node.js should have been like deploying to a paid managed hosting environment with fairly tight requirements, then ok. But that's a weird thing to assert.

Isn't the entire point of the op about making software simple for the end user? Obviously Heroku is complex underneath, but they've created a beautiful abstraction that makes an extremely complicated stack very simple to interact with. It doesn't solve every system administration problem in the world, but they're doing their part to make software more pleasant to work with.

Yeah see what you're saying. I guess my angle is that the original Heroku (before they had cash and time to add more support) had a tight limited costly scope - it concealed the complexity of deploying a rack app, and charged $50-100 a month for that concealment.

And I'd say that if all you want to do is deploy a rack app, you can do that relatively simply in Debian too, for free. (I'd do it with rvm and perhaps build nginx from source and such, but you could do 90% of it straight from apt-get, rubygems and editing ~three config files).

The sorts of things that are really tricky, and have you sweating over the sorts of things the original post is complaining about, are just hard original work (and free, and you don't have to wait years for them to support your pet language or framework or whatever).

It's an acceptable trade-off, an issue internal to the concerns of developers - not end users, and not a reason to hate on unix, is all I'm saying. Not at all hating on the service Heroku provides.

I looked the Heroku sign up page, and got intimidated as heck by all the terminology they use. I can't imagine what the setup and admin process is like.. it could be simple, who knows but their pre-sales page confuse me...

For anyone who isn't familiar with git, I can see how that could be confusing. Other than that, the "How It Works" page (which is what I assume you mean by signup page) is mostly just explaining the secret sauce, and doesn't really matter that much to the end user (developers). All that matters is gem install heroku, heroku create, git push heroku master (etc).

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