On: Chris Lattner left Swift core team

[bombcar]

Has there been an actively developed open-source language both without a "benevolent dictator" AND without being bikeshredded to death by democracy?

(I wouldn't count C as actively developing, even though it is moving glacially slow, I'm thinking of things like Python, etc. Or other languages that aren't "done.")

[worik → bombcar]

Rust

[sinistersnare → worik]

I think Rust does a _ton_ of bikeshedding. Here is one example[0] showing how much of a discussion is required for a relatively simple QoL feature.

[0]: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/62358

[faitswulff → sinistersnare]

Looks like that one devolved a bit into a flamewar. I'm not sure it's representative of the average feature proposal.

[scaramanga → faitswulff]

And it looks to me like it was resolved pretty professionally.

[YorickPeterse → worik]

I wouldn't consider Rust to fall in this category to be honest, as there are plenty of issues/RFCs where people were bike shedding for months or even years.

[tinco → YorickPeterse]

To be honest Rust has some of the most beautifully painted bikesheds I've seen.

[raydev → worik]

I'd argue that if Swift isn't more popular, it is certainly more visible than Rust. And probably just more popular.

Apple's marketing around Swift advertises the "open source" aspect, and there's a lot of money to be made making iOS apps, so there's naturally going to be a lot of noise around proposals/developments.