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Ask HN: How do you take care of yourself?
265 points by Gary_TheSnail_ on Jan 1, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 134 comments
How do you take care of yourself mentally and physically? How do you avoid burnout and what do you do when you have burnt out? What are your top few points of advice for these aspects of self-care or anything else that may be relevant?

For context:

I am finishing my bachelors in CS this year, but I really enjoy my major and classes and I look forward to landing a job in industry. I find side projects to be fun, but motivation to continue working on them dies off within a week or two. As a result, I don't have as many things built and to a level that I would like because I feel like I should be putting my time on something else and then end up making no progress on anything (leetcode, projects, self-learning, hobbies). So I feel like I always need to be doing something and then when I do something I feel like I should be doing something else that is "better", which leads to constant (but sometimes low) feelings of burnout, laziness, or overwhelmingness (hope that's a word). I would also consider myself a perfectionist, so that makes me feel like everything I am doing has to be perfect (even when I don't know how to execute whatever I'm doing properly). I like to take well thought out steps in anything I do (picking next quarter's classes and professors, projects, programming, friendships, etc), but sometimes I feel like that holds me back from actually doing the thing I am thinking about and lead to no progress again.

I apologize for the rant, but I'd like some advice, thoughts, and reflections from the community.




Sometimes you have to crawl through a river of shit to come out clean on the other side. I have suffered from overachiever syndrome / high functioning assholeness for most of my life. Constant doing, constant striving, constant movement, rare moments of nothingness, rare moments of celebration. More hobbies than I can count. It all led to some decent career and life success. And also stress. And anger. And rage. And self-defeating patterns.

Eventually I began to learn how my mind works. Backed off the gas a bit. Took steps to do less, not more. Made a commitment to either go hard on an activity (new biz idea, project, hobby) or kill it. Focus became my north star. Free, open play with no agenda is my Atlantis.

Meditate. Therapy. White russians on a Tuesday morning. Read some Bukowski, some Vonnegut, maybe some Easton-Ellis.

The real breakthrough happened when I removed the attachment that had grown like an umbilical cord between me and work. I love work. I fear being anything less than perfect. Those were hard fucking opponents to tussle with. But I write this from the other side, and it's really comfortable here.


Well said. I'd say the first time you try to overcome your shame is the hardest. Now I see a path that leads to where you are sitting, it's all built on hard work in the end though.


This resonates. The anger and rage are personal.


This this 100%.

I discovered I had extreme work addiction. Working my job, working on my 20 hobbies, starting side projects, etc.

As with many addictions, working all the time is often a coping mechanism for something else. For me it was childhood trauma I had not processed. Getting a therapist helped immensely.

Letting go of work, focusing on just a few interests,and having downtime has made my life so much better.


I wholeheartedly agree. Whenever I stepped off the gas - as you say -, I found that subsequently I made an order of magnitude more progress than when I was pushing myself.

If there is only one skill we could ever learn in life, I would suggest it is understanding our own mind.


Any books, videos, etc. you'd suggest to us in order to aquire the skill of understanding our own brain? I'm asking for some path to go down and lead me to this understanding I'm aware that in the end it's all up to oneself.


Above any sort of passive learning is doing - meditation. This is a contact sport. No different from weight training.

Beyond that, I would recommend "10% Happier" as it is very pragmatic and belief agnostic. Good for newcomers. Next, I'd recommend "Buddhism Plain And Simple" (Steve Hagen). You do not need to follow Buddhism or have any intention to engage with it as a philosophy to wring a ton of value from the book re: how the mind works.


I'm not GP but I'll make a suggestion I have already on a different, although somewhat related thread.

Anything in the warrior literature will help you find yourself, your limitations and help unlock your potential.

Way of the Peaceful Warrior, by Dan Millmann, is a very good introduction to the whole subject. It's fairly easy to read but absolutely full of little gems of wisdom if you're willing to see them. Once you get that, look for the heavier stuff.


Thanks mate appreciate it a lot!


If I didn't know better, I might think I'd have written this without remembering it. Resonates hard. Thanks for sharing.


Question - do you have children ?

Just curious, coz Im a in similar situation, my perfectionism is killing me and my prospects for being a good father.


First one just turned two. I waited until I was 40 to have a child for this reason. I wasn't ready. I didn't trust my relationships with my demons. I didn't want to burden her with my shit. Still got a whole lotta unbecoming to do, but having her around definitely keeps that flame lit under my ass. There's a wonderful buddhist mindset of looking at difficulties or challenging situations and labeling them as "this is my guru" and that's what I've done with her. She's holding up a very untarnished mirror to my behavior and lifestyle 24/7.

Edit: It's worth noting that my perfectionism turned on fatherhood means I'm a motherfucker of a dad. The key is to use that energy wisely, don't let it get out of control like it did with me. That's a really special gift we both have. Just learn to dance with it.


So far, it sounds like I’m younger you. I’m 35 and the last few years have been Hell, but damn I have grown a lot. Been learning all these lessons the hard way. And I’ve held off on children for the same reasons.


If you're him, then I'm the 33 year old you.


[flagged]


> To all the downvoters, please engage me on my question.

Commenting on votes is annoying. But let me try.

> This reads like a bad form of new age neoliberal linkedin self aggrandisement.

How is "I realized my toxic perfectionism/work drive was making me act like a horrible person" either a neoliberal^WNeoliberal or linkedin^WLinkedIn type position? Especially the LinkedIn aspect, where this person started was LinkedIn's golden child.

And how is it self aggrandisement^Waggrandizement? GP realized what they were doing wrong, documented how they had made progress, and noted that they have more progress to make?

> I am sorry, but what is your point?

Their point was twofold.

First, it was pointing out the way they take care of themselves, like OP asked.

Second, it was pointing out a way many of us on HN struggle, and a way to help us move past that.

Edit: Removed personal attack. It was uncalled for, and I apologize. Also fix phrasing in a couple places.


The form might looks similar, but the substance is much different than the bullshitters on Linkedin. In fact, the bs-ers/ influencers wannabe all want to copy from posts like this, which is why they look similar.

I don’t agree with your assessment of the post being self aggrandizement. How would you write a honest post on sharing your life experience that doesn’t focus on yourself?


This looks nothing like the garbage on Linkedin, not sure what you're talking about. It's a direct, solicited response to the question posed at the top of this page - and a very genuine one at that.


I have a job that pays the bills and where I haven’t worked overtime in many years. I start small hobby projects because it’s fun, and I rarely finish them. Because starting a project is fun and finishing usually isn’t. And I do it - remember - because it’s fun.

If I’m going to start pressuring myself to finish hobby projects then it’s not fun any more. That’s work. Not a hobby.

Hobbies might be extra curricular activities to boost your resume for a tiny period before your first job. But once you are hired a) your hobby projects take a much smaller place on your list of achievements and b) your need your hobbies to disconnect from work.

Best advice for avoiding burnout is to switch jobs quickly if you are stressed over work. If you lose sleep over work it’s not worth it. If there is crunch time or expectations that you regularly work over 40 hours per week, get out. Find a job that doesn’t do that. It might not be in some sexy industry it could be in concrete manufacturing or an airline - but that’s the price you’ll have to pay.

Also, don’t be afraid to just take a hobby that doesn’t have a goal other than relaxing and disconnecting. Especially once you land a software job you’ll find that you’ll really want a hobby that isn’t anywhere near software.


I'm a software engineer and my best hobby is bushcraft. I've tried sometimes to add a bit of tech to my adventures but soon i realized it was better to let this passion be completely free from technological stuffs ;)


The real hard part is when the hobby starts becoming successful, then you have a hard choice to make.


How do you define success? For me a successful hobby is one that is fun to do and leaves me energized. It's only a hobby if I'm doing it because it's fun.


Thank you for the wise words. I like this reply a lot. It was a nice reminder :)


Chase after some physical performance goals, do it 3-4 days a week and let that be your outlet for perfectionism, betterment, etc. Meaning, give that feeling an outlet, and make it material. It's hard to not feel great satisfaction when you are making gains working out, swimming, etc. It gives you a place where it's pretty "easy" to chase performance and know what to do, and, at least for me, let's me feel "OK" about not knowing exactly what to chase after intellectually.

For better or worse, intellectual pursuits can be hard to come by, or hard to know how to start, etc. But saying "I want to get down to 12% bodyfat and put on 10lbs of muscle" is pretty easy to track, pretty easy to figure out, pretty easy to see the gains, and of course you feel fantastic after every single workout. At least I do.


I like this. I've struggled with going to the gym consistently because I don't lifting something heavy repeatedly very fun, so I don't look forward to the gym as much. I prefer something like pick up basketball with some friends. But recently I have been a little more strategic about the way I approach weightlifting because I would like to be less scrawny, more athletic/toned, so that helped a bit. But what you said is a different way to look at physical activity and I like that new perspective. Thank you for sharing :)


If you don't like 'solo' sports and you having hard time finding joy in things like lifting, running, hiking, cycling and swimming, I would suggest some different style of physical activities.

Brazilian jiu-jitsu, climbing, orienteering, to name a few. There are probably other too, but those are the ones I'm aware of. I don't have first hand experience of active climbing, but my colleagues in tech praise it. For me bjj and orienteering are perfect fit. I love that I get to test my skills against other people. Being somewhat competitive in nature, I can put my competitive spirit into the sports field instead of work.

Another good thing for me has been that there is a defined time. I have to go. Others are going too. I need to drop the work and go do something else. This forces me to stop banging my head on a problem, which usually solves itself overnight anyways.

As a side effect, you get fit. Fit in a way that you really can't get by lifting. But you never need to think about it. Or if you think, it is something specific because you need it for something (like improved grip strength or something).


Climbing is only social when on rope with another person - even then - only minorly so when switching over. Nothing about it is really an inherently social activity.

If you do bouldering - you could easily go months without a single conversation like I have. Many people are hella anti-social within the rock climbing scene.

Personally - I’d avoid rock climbing if you’re an overachiever type and especially if you’re someone who pushes themselves all the time. Rock climbing is 100% unforgiving on this. I’ve gotten more injuries from rock climbing than any other sport. Anytime I put in what I perceive as past 70-80% effort - injury. Every time. Doesn’t happen in other activities as much. And these injuries are not fun btw. They last months to years - sometimes forever.


Alright, I have limited experience and I don't know the scene. I believe my colleague does primarily indoor bouldering, and rarely outdoor bouldering.

So take this tip then with a very much salt!

Maybe the ultimate point is that there are many good hobbies that involve physical exercise!


I agree with the lack of fun of just lifting weights. I'll also add the unwelcome feeling in most gyms - which I later realized was really more my own insecurity. Lifting weights also did not help me cardiovascularly. It took me a long time to find some strength training I really enjoyed, and for me that was CrossFit.

I know CrossFit has a bad reputation, but I believe this to be a function of two things - Poor regulation (it's easy to open a gym, some gyms are just bad) and overly competitive gyms (which can lead to a bad group or coaches that encourage you to push too far). However, I think there are a lot less bad gyms now than there used to be. Most are very welcoming and safe. Joining Crossfit is one of the best things I have done, and it's at least worth a shot if you are looking for something new. Especially if you have a slightly competitive personality (it also provides an outlet for competitiveness).

It's like TypeScript, it's hard to explain why people like it compared to Javascript - just try it.


It took me buying a power rack and building a home gym to get consistency with lifting. Some people like gyms, but that turns a workout into a two hour ordeal with commute, vs quick 45 minutes at home.


My advice to my 22 year old self, in order of priority, would be:

1. Get financially literate. Before any "hobby projects" make sure your money is working for you.

2. Take care of yourself physically. Join a martial arts gym. It will give you a community "outside of programming", keep you fit and you will have the pressure to show up no matter what.

3. Don't forget the basics - data structures, algorithms & distributed systems. Most companies asks for this. It may be a FAANG impostor syndrome but it's there.

4. Keep work as work. Do not develop a "passion for your job". Herculean efforts developing a CRUD app will not translate easily to more money at another company (see #3).

5. Impostor syndrome is real. Do not fall for it.


> 3. Don't forget the basics - data structures, algorithms & distributed systems. Most companies asks for this. It may be a FAANG impostor syndrome but it's there.

I wish I had realized when I was younger how much of a red flag the FAANG interview processes are. They put you through hell to get the job, and if you get hired you waste most of your time wading through bullshit, and nobody ever uses any of that stuff they got quizzed on. Don't take a FAANG or Enterprise job unless you want to collect a paycheck while wading through bureaucracy. (they're not all like that, but enough of them are that I won't go back)


I already severely dislike the interview process and I've only just started my entry-level, new grad job search, but there isn't much I can do to avoid it. I have also been looking into startups (ycombinator included) but haven't heard back yet, but I'm patient - it's a holiday break.

I have been slowly developing a study plan for data structures and algorithms since it's been a while since a took a class on that and that makes up most of the interview process for new grads from what I hear from peers. If you have any advice or resources on that, I would greatly appreciate it as well. Thank you!


If you find a recruiter they will usually help you find ways to pass the interview. Most of them will send you to https://leetcode.com/ and https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/must-coding-questions-company-...

You can also research a particular company's interview process and check their Glassdoor interview reviews. Here's some links to prepare for an Amazon interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQOg9C2R08&list=PLaViNjvnjP... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB5noyXEv1o&list=PLaViNjvnjP... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzlUQCy84rQ&list=PLaViNjvnjP... https://dev.to/educative/top-10-object-oriented-design-inter...

If you're just starting out, and I'm looking to hire you, I'm looking for samples of your work. Contribute to open source projects and build your own projects. They don't have to be rocket science. Just show that you have a handle on the Software Development Life Cycle, that you can work with and contribute to teams of people, and try to incorporate all the professional software development practices into your project. After you do that with a "Hello World" app, you can show off your coding skills more, but a very simple example will do to start.


> nobody ever uses any of that stuff they got quizzed on

I’ve seen many threads on HN debating this, and I wonder if this actually matters. Isn’t the point of a good interview process to separate good candidates from bad with a few false positives and false negatives as possible? My understanding is that the “basics” are an effective filter for people who can build fundamental levels of understanding and therefore adapt to different challenges easily.


The complaint as I understand it is that if it's just supposed to be harder/more academic 'FizzBuzz', then it ought not to be something that requires revision, cramming prior to the interview (probably sufficient in itself! So what's it testing?) because it's not memorable/derivable after years of doing something different or that's built on top of abstractions on top of abstractions on top of abstractions on top of the question.

But I've never actually had an interview like it (or I have I didn't realise/object to it myself) and discussions about it tend not to be particularly concrete. For example in the spirit of 'harder/more academic FizzBuzz', I think 'given this data structure, write a function to transform it or others like it into one that looks like this' is perfectly reasonable, but say 'in big-O terms, what's the best an algorithm to invert a binary tree can be? Write it' is a bit unfair for a job writing CRUD apps.


It's a filter, but not a particularly effective one. It just shows a human can act like a robot and memorize/regurgitate information. It doesn't show dynamic problem-solving skills (nobody at a real job is pressured to solve a complex problem in 30 minutes on a whiteboard, and most people should be asking their teammates or researching to find the best answers), interpersonal skills, communication skills, or the specific skillset needed for a specific role. You have no idea how this person is going to adapt to those challenges just by showing you an example of a linked list. It's also possible that interview challenge questions are the only thing the candidate knows.


> They put you through hell to get the job

I'd gladly do this for long-term, stable employment that comes with an outstanding salary.


Imposter syndrome is real, and so is the opposite. There are plenty of young developers who are highly confident but completely incompetent.


"I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers.

Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties.

Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions.

One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage."

- Kurt Freiherr von Hammerstein-Equord


He has leadership material written all over him.


Just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.


Well that's that confidence/experience curve (commonly attributed to Dunning-Kruger effect, idk if it's a reasonable interpretation) in a nutshell isn't it?

1. I'm so great; 2. I'm such an imposter; 3. I'm quite experienced, I know what I don't know.

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*7HPFeJPLKJe0s581x...


Could it just be the Dunning-Kruger effect in play? it takes a while to realize how much you don't know (some don't stick around long enough to realize that or lack the self-awareness and self-inquiry)


> 1. Get financially literate. Before any "hobby projects" make sure your money is working for you.

How?


This is something I didn't do early on and feel some level of regret around it. Again this is my personal opinion and you'll need to research / customize for your needs.

I've used Eric Tyson's "Personal finance for dummies" and "Investing for dummies". Both are excellent resources.

Basically:

1. Invest in your 401k and max it out if possible. The advice I've seen is use the Roth 401k instead of 401k. That way withdrawals in retirement are tax free.

2. Move money and invest actively (mostly mutual funds but keep some for speculation as well).

3. Look at a source that can provide additional income passively. E.g. Dividend shares, Real-Estate, etc.

4. If you plan to have kids research 529 plans. Some states provide a tax deduction on the 529 investment. You can setup a 529 even if you don't have children now and add in the beneficiaries later.

5. Estate planning - setup a trust. Makes it really easy to transfer money to heirs and other beneficiaries.

6. If you buy a house (and plan to have children) buy one in a good/excellent school district even if they're a little expensive. The houses hold value and appreciate much better.

It's a rather convoluted topic and finding good financial advisors is hard. I'd welcome suggestions and corrections.


Very fair and straightforward advice. Noted and appreciated! Thank you for sharing :)


Me advice would be: “buy bitcoin”.


Tend to your personal relationships like a garden, especially when you're younger since it becomes much more difficult to establish meaningful relationships the older you get. It's only my experience, but that is my greatest regret. I think the less important things like career are more easily tackled with a solid foundation of personal relationships.

Also, I've found striving for perfection is fool's gold. Yeah, you may be "that person" that friends/family/colleagues will love name-dropping you every chance they get. The others will probably care little that you're an expert and may even resent you for it.


First of all, one thing to understand is that EVERYONE feels this. You're not alone, you're not more lazy than someone else, you might have different affinities but this is the cycle everyone goes through, on a weekly basis.

The sooner you accept it, the better off you'll be. Accept your best and your worst and just ride along.

There is enormous amount of BS around, whether it's in books or websites, or biographies.

Wishful thinking != Reality.

Beyond all that, I find balance in having multiple hobbies, knowing one thing: creative energy (for the lack of a better term) is pretty much hormonal. I find it's about a 10 week cycle for me. 3 weeks mad energy, 3 weeks netflix-and-chill "leave me alone", and in between is the transitions.

I'm a designer and developer by trade for about 24 years commercially, I produce music since 96, I have 2 kids, I hack on things, I also do 3D arts, I paint on canvas, I write macOS apps for fun, I take photos with highend cameras, I play pinball and own 6 machines, I make video games (released 1 on PS4 and 1 on Steam), I thinker about network protocols, etc.

That list may sound extensive and the juggle sounds impossible: that's because it is.

Realistically, I do one thing at a time for about a couple of weeks, then move on. I go back to it every now and then.

Eventually, through the years, I have these pools of hobbies in which I dive in and out of, and all is well. It's just one of those "dad things, dad does". In other words: hobbies.

Too much of society wants you labelled for something in particular. The fact is, my music inspires my rhythm, makes me play better at pinball, inspires me to make physics video games, feeds into my programming, pushes me to design something else, tinker with opencv and ball following algorithms, etc.

Life is too short to pretend to be someone else, ride the waves of creativity, don't accept to be labelled, enjoy the process, eventually you'll gravitate back to your choices of hobbies and discover new ones. In my experience, some of the best things in life came about from something completely commercially unviable. But that can lead you to a new career. Who knows where it leads, no one could tell you: looking back, not even yourself!


Thank you for sharing your cycle and wise words at the end. That is a very refreshing lesson and reminder.


In order: 1. Moving more means 2. Sleeping better means 3. Stressing less means 4. Eating well

Treat your brain and body as biological knowledge engines. Decades of research have shown how exercise, sleep, stress, and nutrition affect learning, memory, attention, and decision making.

Start with taking seriously how you feel. Professional athletes know they can’t train for more than a few hours each day or else they increase the risks of getting hurt. Be consistent in your efforts but not compulsive, life is a marathon not a sprint. Slow down and breathe to focus on your best efforts in small meaningful steps.


I'm in the 2nd half of my 40s. Spending the equivalent of a top end smartphone (eg S21 Ultra 512) just over two years ago got me a fully fitted garage gym:

  - squat rack
  - 8 sqm proper rubber gym mats
  - a solid flat bench
  - 20kg premium Olympic bars (ball bearings just spin and spin)
  - 10kg Olympic EZY Bar (for arms)
  - 110kg of plates
  - plate holder (aka "spider"), quick locks
This has been my best purchase ever - setting aside almost breaking even from gym memberships already. (Added a pair of 25kg bumper plates since.) During Covid with significant life stresses and all gyms closed in Melbourne, Australia, it provided me with truly needed mental health benefits on top of the physical ones. I don't know where I'd be right now without it.

I did last year with zero alcohol, so one goal down, but whilst maintaining regular workouts I still lost a bit by putting on weight (5kgs up when I wanted 5 down) and losing on squatting and deadlift capacity - thanks to not being regular and consistent in loading.

Exactly as you say, a sprint / heavy session would feel good for the moment, but the fatigue over the next few days would cause me to skip on the follow up. This year's focus will be on consistency - only do as much as will allow another session the next day, settling in for a marathon.

It will be my Barbell Prescription.

(Having a young daughter has been trying on sleep, I suspect there's strong interplay.)


> a sprint / heavy session would feel good ... but fatigue ... would cause me to skip a follow up. This year's focus will be on consistency - only do as much as will allow another session the next day

One of my martial arts instructors had a memorable saying for that - "train today, so you can train tomorrow." His point was similar to yours - he often had to temper enthusiasm for hard or over training in favor of consistency and longevity.

Regarding the garage gym - I did something similar and agree it's an excellent health/life investment.

I avoid back squats due to injury, but I do have a station for belt squats, a flat bench w/olympic bar, hex bar for dead lifts, an assortment of plates/dumb bells/kettle bells, all on gym mats. Having a gym next to me has provided excellent motivation to get out of my desk chair 3-4 times a week to use it. I dropped 25 lbs this year thanks to consistent routine, and my body and day-to-day feel so much better; less joint aches, better sleep, and more energy, mental clarity, and confidence.

To tie that back to OP's question on self care, avoiding burnout, etc. ... I'd say it's worth paying attention to mentions of physical fitness and exercise in this thread. Staying physically active and taking care of your body helps protect against some of the negative mental states or outcomes these kinds of threads try to avoid.


Belt squats are amazing. Time under tension versus a pure volume approach to hypertrophy just makes so much sense.


That's an awesome setup; congrats on your results, and great to hear how it's affecting all aspects of your life. That desk chair is a slow killer unless combined with workout routines.

(If you haven't already, have a look at the Barbell Prescription book - the plethora benefits of such a routine are almost chilling.)

Your martial arts instructors sound wise! I've had the thought in the back of my mind, but I've resolved to make it my #1 priority this year. I'll be logging volumes, etc, and how I feel the the next morning to arrive at loads I can sustain with daily activities long term.

You mentioned confidence. I have a noted how improved fitness has helped carry myself with a straight back; the benefits on mental health are hard to overstate. I also have ADHD, and likewise for my ability to focus.


I’ve been half seriously looking for equipment (squat rack, bar, bench) for a little while but am having a hard time of it. Can you recommend your gear? I’m also in Melbourne so brands specifically would be helpful.


Little Bloke Fitness in Reservoir! They are absolutely awesome, very good, local product for a reasonable price.

Most of my gear was 360 Strength.

  - 360 Strength Heavy Duty Squat Rack, with spotter bars.
  - 360 Strength Olympic EZ Curl Bar (Nickel - Bushings)
  - 360 Strength PRO Olympic 20kg Barbell (Hard Chrome - Full Black - Bearings)
  - 1RM Commercial Flat Bench 1RM-CFB
  - 360 Strength STANDARD Weight Tree with Barbell Holder
  - 360 Strength Olympic Rubber Coated Weight Plate: 2x 1.25, 4x 2.5, 4x 5, 4x 10, 2x 20 kg.
  - 8x 15mm Command Classic Rubber Gym Flooring Black
  - 360 Strength Nylon Olympic Locking Collars (very quick and easy to lock one handed, moderate grip - great for curls, presses etc)
  - 360 Strength 360 Strength Aluminium Olympic Locking Collars (harder/two handed, very solid grip - great for deadlifts)
  - Since added: 25kg PRO HG Bumper Plates (1 pair)
I would have considered the more premium 1RM rack if I had the height in the garage, however the 360 is perfectly fine and a perfect fit - 1RM would have helped on chin ups, myself being moderately tall.

This is a very competent setup, and I still can't quite believe what a difference it makes especially as I WFH. All the best!


Thanks so much for this it's going to help a tonne. When I get a chance I'll pop over and have a chat with them. Casually searching different stores and deals online was a horrible experience, so this is a great motivator to finally pick up some gear.


Or you could spent nothing, save space and environment and just google "bodyweight fitness".


> In order: 1. Moving more means 2. Sleeping better means 3. Stressing less means 4. Eating well

Alternative order works better for me: 0. more water 1. sleep better 2. eat well 3. move more 4. stress less


Accept that projects and hobbies are meaningless to anyone but yourself. If something interests you, spend time on it. When it stops being interesting, don't reminisce about it, and find something else. Losing interest in things is natural and not necessarily a mental problem.

This is entirely unrelated to how you want to take care of yourself. If you notice any physical problem, go to a doctor. If you experience actual mental problems, talk to a psychologist. Do it sooner than later.


There are two things:

- Life is not about you, it's about other people. Focus on other people and move from I to we. The biggest manifestation of this is to find a significant other, commit with (jointly) to building a family, and get children.

- Get over yourself. You are not special, you do not have a manifest destiny, no one will remember your achievements when you are gone. If you are one in a million then there are about 10,000 other people like you in this world today. Have an ordinary life with ordinary pleasures like walking, owning a dog, gardening, reading easy fun novels, watching tv. Make reasonable targets at work that involve 40 -50 years of turning up and punching in. Not only do you not need to excel, you cannot excel. Live with it.

Literally - live.


> ordinary pleasures like walking, owning a dog, gardening, reading easy fun novels, watching tv

While I do not disagree with such advice in general, this is exactly opposite to "Life is not about you, it's about other people. Get over yourself." All these things are decidedly about yourself. It is about making conscious trade-off to stop hustling and focus on yourself, everyone else be damned while you heal. And remember, as with every trade-off, the outcome may not necessarily be the one you're aiming for. So use your best judgement.


They're not exactly opposite, you will find that your family get really annoyed with you if you hang round them expecting them to entertain you. Getting over yourself includes doing simple normal things that productivity gurus tell us all to give up. Going for a walk, or getting a dog doesn't include everyone else being damned! My view : leave the logic behind and relax!


Well, while doing all these simple normal things you're not exactly improving family financial situation or even entertaining anyone, including the dog. Maybe their idea of normal is not aligned with yours.

Source: family of five plus cat and dog. After trying in line with the advice above for twenty years the results are... underwhelming, to say the least. I feel if more focus was extended to some parts of life, the outcome could have been at least partially more satisfying. That's why I'm calling for better judgement.


That's an interesting perspective, and of course your mileage may vary.

Who knows what the counterfactuals are - what would your life been if you had stayed at work late for 20 years? Maybe you would be rich, maybe the outcome would have been bad. The grass is always greener, and there are lots of people who will sell you the line that if only you grind harder (for them and their friends) then you will be happier. I've seen it work out exactly once - a Romanian guy I know closeted himself with servers at a FAANG for 6 years and then quit with many $$$ went home and married the high school homecoming queen (Romanian equiv there of) he had spent his adolescent years dreaming of. As far as I know they are blissfully happy and live travelling the world. Mostly though the stories are sadder - near misses financially (within weeks of cashing out and then the founders had bad news... cashed out and then financial disaster soon after... paper valuation great, no exit ever, breakdown and pink slip) followed by a realization that nothing they ever did was worth a biscuit.


As others have said, eat well and exercise (sweat) which for me usually leads to good sleep which is also key.

Is it possible that part of your “burnout” is actually dissatisfaction with never finishing? If you expect you won’t finish then motivation to start may diminish. Pick something (one thing) and focus to finish. Learn to live with imperfection. Read about the idea of minimum viable products (MVP), and apply this concept to your projects. You will find satisfaction in finishing, and then motivation to start (and finish) the next. Yes finishing is hard, but then you will have a record of accomplishments and trust in yourself that you CAN finish. Slow down and work on one thing at a time. And finish.


You bring up a good point - a big part of the dissatisfaction could be from never finishing something. I'll lost out my projects, tasks, and goals for the year and pick 1 or 2 to focus on really well and work on them one at a time.

I saw this YouTube video (https://youtu.be/yg0opil8TMA) (amazing channel too) about finishing what you start and I really liked it.

Thank you for sharing!


A few thoughts.

1. For me, being physical is important. It isn’t for everyone, but if it is for you, don’t ignore it. It brings perspective, clarity, and renewed energy.

I don’t enjoy the gym rat thing, though. For me, I’ve really loved tennis & climbing. I set myself goals in each and work up to them. I use them as toys to work on mental fitness. I’ve been surprised at how much it has helped in work & life.

2. I’ve worked with a bunch of very smart people right out of school who worry about perfection. One thing I have learned that’s helpful to point out is that the school format is great for teaching a lot of information fast, and measuring a certain type of achievement, school is not life. In fact, it’s counterproductive to work/adult life. A perspective shift is needed. Think of this as a developmental phase of life. Most people experience it.

In school, you are being trained to be a perfectionist. You get one shot, and then are judged, with finality. In this game, it’s worth it to overinvest in everything to maximize your one-shot score.

In life, you can generally control the clock, and the world offers multiple rounds. So, you can play with an idea over a long time, iterating it towards more and more usefulness / perfectness. Note that the real world is much messier than school, and often the problem itself changes over time. It’s important to let go of the idea that you’ve been trained on, that there is one perfect answer to each question.

“Perfect is the enemy of done” is a great quote here.

—

For your side projects, if I were you, I’d pick any one and just finish it. Not perfectly, just done. Enjoy the process, appreciate the result. Don’t judge yourself on the outcome as much as the process you used to get there.

Good luck!


A few thoughts.

Don't force yourself so much and just enjoy.

You feel the need to do a lot of different things but not finish them to a level you like. Some people are like that: they love to start ideas and solve problems, but have less interest in 'typing out the remainder'.

It can be good to plan life, but you might miss out on opportunities along the way.

One observation that opened my eyes: even without careful planning people succeed.


Exercise. Lots of it. I cycle, run, hike, and camp. Average 8 hours/week, sometimes much more. Keeps me physically fit, but also gives my brain something to do that’s in no way related to work. If I worked on side-projects a lot, I’d definitely burn out.


What you describe frankly sounds a lot like you have something like ADHD. Its not something you should let somebody diagnose you with over the internet, but its really worth looking into with a professional if you have similar suspicions. Here's why:

1. Its one of the more addressable maladies. With good CBT, medication, and habit formation, most people seem to receive dramatic improvements in their quality of life.

2. Understanding your brain and its tendencies can be extremely liberating. Instead of feeling guilt and shame about your choices and work habits, you can look at them objectively and mitigate as you see fit.

It took me until I was a decade out of college while seeking help for depression that a psych picked up on some cues from me and gave me an assessment and diagnosis. I wish that would have happened earlier. If that isn't what's going on, it would be a great thing to cross off as well.


I didn't think about seeking professional help, but a few therapy sessions wouldn't hurt to see if there is or isn't anything serious going on that I don't have the expertise to see.

I have heard a lot of good things about habits and routines. I try to establish some for myself but admittedly I don't give it 100% and they don't stick. I'd love to have a solid sleep and wake up time, but I lack the self discipline to do so :/

Thank you for your input!!


anxiety about what you aren't doing is one of the curses of living in the modern world. The anxiety of too many choices and what is an incredible amount of freedom to do most anything. What I think makes the difference is you need to put becoming goal oriented really high on your priorities. Finishing things is really important. If you find that hard, practice it. Start small, build up. While practicing becoming goal oriented, blind commitment to it is useful. Later, blind commitment to goals may not be sensible, and you may shift or abandon your goals. But this should be done when you are confident in your ability to set goals and achieve them. I weirdly had to relearn this, when I was young in the 80s and 90s, I just naturally did this. Then in the 2000s, with more awareness of what everyone else was doing, I became anxious about my choices, and felt everything I was doing could be done better. It was actually through doing Brazilian jiujitsu, BJJ, that I relearnt the importance of small goals, incremental improvement. Working with what you have got. The messiness of real life engagement compared to "practice". (BJJ is an excellent way to look after your physical well being as well). Another key thing is, whenever you use the word "should" (as in I should be doing X, or I should be doing Y). Quite often baked into that is some kind of external pressure (sometimes unconscious) to be doing something. If that "should" is causing you anxiety, there's a chance that actually you don't really want to do the thing you think you should. So pay careful attention to "should".

Also, some words of reflection from one of the great stoic philosophers...

A man who suffers before it is necessary, suffers more than is necessary. – Seneca


I have never thought of the word "should" like that before. Thank you for that. I will keep a better eye on how and when I use it.

This is also the second time someone mentioned martial arts in here, so I guess that means it's something worth looking into!

Thank you for sharing :)


Grats on the degree and all the best in your job hunt.

Personally I know my day is limited so I try to make 80% of my effort on things I love to do, and 20% on the things I don't enjoy that much. For example, doing the dishes, work, or exercise. I don't really enjoy those activities because I dislike the feeling of being sweaty, and work is honestly boring and meetings are awful, but I know they're necessary baseline activities and they don't require that much effort. So, there I just accept that I have to do it. That way, I don't care enough to let those things derail the rest of my attention during the day on things I really enjoy, such as working on my projects, reading books, cooking, or whatever.

Works well enough for me, but it's been rough in Covid because there's only so much you can do without regular human connection. I'm happy being alone and amongst loved ones, but there is an other half which wants to be amongst other people in the world whether that's at work, going to parties, traveling or just like walking around in my city and hitting up random food spots. Hopefully this new year is a return to regular style of being outside and doing stuff.


This seems like a cool application of the 80/20 rule. I never thought to apply it to work and life like that, but it sounds much healthier than what I've been doing. I'll think of a new plan/daily schedule that lessens the current percent of day I spend on school and related projects and put that time towards something for myself.

Thank you for your input and thoughts!

Edit: typo


Note that the post you reply to is talking about 80% effort and not 80% of the time. At least it is my interpretation since a (normal) person cannot usually have 80% of the day for fun activities and only 20% for work.


Lots of great suggestions here already.

One thing which has really helped me over time is finding focus amid the many motivations we all have. There's a really pleasant clarity which comes from knowing what I should be doing now.

Easy to say, but how? Personally I've found systems like "Getting Things Done" (the classic book) helpful - it emphasises getting things out of your head and into a trusted system. It doesn't even need to be GTD, I've moved closer to a "bullet journal" approach, as it's simpler. You don't want to overcomplicate things by being drawn too far into the productivity rabbit hole, as that carries its own time and complexity cost!

Some core elements of any good approach IMHO:

- a simple system you trust for tracking what's important (even if a prioritised list you carry over each day). This should contain simple meaningful, actionable steps. When things are "out there" it somehow feels easier to manage then when it's floating in my head.

- knowing the time cost of things. I saw a good video which suggested that if your life is divided into time buckets, then if one bucket grows too much (eg work) then another had to shrink (sleep, family, rest, etc). Quite an impactful perspective.

- keeping a "personal roadmap" for some longer range planning, but knowing it will probably shift as you go. Keep your "roadmap" in mind, review it consciously but don't be afraid to push things back or reprioritise.

- keep up an exercise plan (as others have said) - maintain your hardware!

- if you're feeling stressed or overwhelmed take a step back. You won't perform well in that state and you'll do a better job tomorrow. Or try to get help from others.


Man, it probably won't help, but I could have written that. I recognize myself in your description. I am working for 5 years and I burned out 8 months ago. Unfortunately I am still in.

I have no magical formula. What I can say is that done is better than perfect when it comes about Software Engineering (also applicable for other domains). You will have to fight against yourself and attempt to get things done before you lose motivation. Of course that won't be easy, specially if you are perfectionnist.

Don't hesitate to have break, don't hesitate to abandon projects for a time and resume later. Follow your inside will. Life is too short to be bored.

Don't stay at work late, even if you enjoy it. Always be looking for perfection is exhausting, and your team probably won't be as concerned ad you. Your managers can help you with good "definitions of done". Communicate with them.

Be careful and take care. Good luck :)


The best investment you can ever make in yourself is to find out how your mind works and why you feel the way you feel. The skills you learn by doing this have an immeasurable compounding interest if applied daily.

As you become better at caring for yourself it is that you will feel more and more liberated and this will eventually enable you to follow through with things and achieve greatness (whatever that means for yourself).

Maybe start with this and I think all the other decisions and questions will resolve themselves naturally.


Your reflection about your situation is awesome. Your questions will help you. However, as already mentioned, your problems and dilemmas are not unique. I see in you a young adult, learning to handle life and ambitions; and I think your questions and reflection about the topic will get you far.

So, actual advice:

First one: have patience. Don’t expect any big results, side projects etc. If you produce something worthwile, great, but don’t plan for it and expect it.

Second: Looking back on accomplishments tends to look impressive compared to looking at future plans. You cant do three big projects at the same time, and you might compare to other ppl who did several nice projects. But, they did’t do them at the same time - they probably did them over several years and focused on one project at a time. Maybe, back to the first point: don’t be ambitious here. Just do something fun.

Third: do something fun. When doing your masters degree, you have a lot of stuff you must do. For the projects in your spare time, do something _fun_, whereever that may lead you. I played a lot of World of Warcraft, at a time where I could be programming. But it was fun. Looking back, it really taught me invaluable lessons about communication, teamwork, high performance teams, motivation and leadership. These skills I employ in my current job (in some form). But from the outside, it might just seem like a waste of time. (Well, a lot of it was, but I spent a lot of time managing a top raid guild).

Fourth: perfectionism is great in a way, because you tend to produce results of really high quality. However, in my grown life, I have come to realize, that it is mostly a burden. Perfectionism is an enemy of balancing the effort-reward balance. E.g. doing a task quickly and “poorly” is often _far_ better than not doing it, because you don’t have time to do it perfectly. When you really think about it, then the best use of your time is not to do everything perfect, but to produce as much value as possible, whatever quality is required in the specific situation - and perfectionism is an enemy of this. It really can be a handicap.

So, just to finish up: your problems are not unique. I love that you are able to reflect on them - keep doing that. And, lower your ambitions and just do something fun in your spare time - the results, whatever they might be - will follow.


Incredibly well written. Thank you for sharing. I greatly appreciate your thoughts and input!!


Mentally: I have a therapist that I talk to once a month no matter what. Even if I don’t have anything really going on in my life, it is a good check-in. Through a monthly conversation, I can usually cut off falling into historically bad patterns of behavior.

Since you bring up side projects, I used to put so much pressure on myself to always have at least 1, if not 2, side projects that could be money making. In the last 5 years, I’ve given that up. The pressure, after work was done for the day, to be productive for 2 or 3 more hours was just “killing” me (slowly - I wasn’t exercising. I was eating fast food so I could get back in front of the computer). So I went cold turkey. If something is interesting, I’ll read about it. If it causes an itch, I’ll scratch it. But I don’t put any pressure on myself for set amount of time to look at it. 5 minutes one day, 2 hours the next. Doesn’t matter. As for the feeling of working on something better? I have that to. If something more interesting pops up, I move my time to it. But for that to work for me, I had to come to terms with that I’ll probably never finish anything. And that’s OK for me. I have plans for apps all the time. But the 2 that I actually built to completion? A budgeting app (when Simple bank shutdown) and a barbell app (calculates my warm up sets for me and which plate combinations to use).

Physically: Get a primary care physician. Get blood work and a physical every year. If you end up at urgent care or something else outside of your PCP, send them the records. If you like data, there is something magical about looking at your past blood work results and watching your diet and exercise change those numbers.

Move more. If you’re doing absolutely nothing, start with walking. Just you. Rain or shine. Cold or hot. Everyday. If you can make a habit out of walking, other physical habits are easier to form. I take 2 walks every morning. The first is with my incredibly skittish dog. We don’t walk far or fast. After I return her home, I go back out for my walk. Just me. No podcasts. No music. Just a brisk 1 mile every 15 minutes for 30 to 45 minutes. But don’t start there. Just go our your door, walk 10 minutes and turn around and walk back. The next day, add a minute. Don’t worry about distance or pace. Just get in the habit of going out your door and walking. Once I developed the habit for walking and learned to love how walking made me feel, I started adding simple workouts - push-ups and air squats. Eventually it lead to barbells. Your journey might go in a completely different direction. And the only other piece of advice I can give you - don’t follow fitness people on Instagram or YouTube (or any other social media). Those 30 second clips are their BEST workouts. They don’t show you the years of training they endured to get there.


Very fair and practical advice. Small steps. Thank you!


Be terrible at something you enjoy and do it anyway because it's fun and stupid. It puts what actually being good at something looks like in perspective. The things you're good at, you probably don't struggle and suffer with unless you are in an elite/olympic level training program.

The things I'm best at, I got almost passively good at as the effect of decades of doing them because I enjoyed them and sought out challenges and mentoring. I'm a pretty good security architect but with the confidence of a CTO because I can tell really fast how good someone is at what they do, not because I'm the best in this field, but because I know what being good at something looks like as a result of my other interests. Nobody burns out from succeeding, so add unrelated things you enjoy to offset the things you struggle with, and the discipline on your time that doing things for yourself imposes pays huge passive dividends.

I also burn out periodically because high performance is less about linear productivity than managing work, which means being strategic and scaling the value you produce, and when that managing thread blocks, downtime is expensive and necessary, but that's just the cost of performance at that level.

If you're burning out, a) you probably aren't good enough at what you are doing that anyone will miss you if you aren't there, and b) your additional effort is past the point of diminishing marginal returns, so pay yourself some time and joy. It's like a power lifter injuring themselves just to make goal nobody else sees or cares about and costing themselves months of training to recover from it. Work smarter, and good luck. :)


To someone burning out, “a)” is really not great. I get what you’re trying to say, but it comes across like “you suck or you wouldn’t be burning out”.

People do succeed and burn out - it’s a pyrrhic victory.

I usually find burnout can be caused when one is in a system that has high friction (lots of administrative crap), vague performance requirements (bring me a rock, but make it good), and someone who is incredibly passionate and good at what they do, but can’t make the progress they want in their current position.


Fair, I would rephrase by saying, accept this instance of burnout, then reflect on the trajectory that got us there. Burnout passes, it's just a matter of mitigating the consequences when it happens. If you are in a high friction situation, we need to apply our intelligence to changing those circumstances or finding new ones that are enriching instead of grinding in an environment that isn't going to change. Burnout is like being down a hole you can't dig out of, and if you're willing to consider that you just suck at something (even if you're actually pretty good), it depersonalizes it enough to step back and climb out. But again, fair call on my phrasing and tone, thank you.


Exercise regularly. Stay away from sugar. Talk to people and hear what they have to say. Learn how to recognize and acknowledge your fears, but don't let them rule you. Foster a belief in something greater than yourself. If you drink or smoke or do drugs, do they make you weaker or stronger? Be honest with yourself. Life is short; eat desert first.


Basics first: The brain is an organ. Physical health and brain health and mental health are deeply interconnected. Find a physical activity that you can do several times a week with minimal motivation. Bonus points if you get friends into the same activity, or the activity is something like a martial arts gym. Accountability to others is an incredibly powerful motivation. Use it for both long term habits (daily fitness routine), and one time large goals (I'll lose 50 lbs this year or I own my friend $200).

Optional but valuable: learn how to cook [healthy] food that tastes good. This plays into fitness, and also can become a hobby. At a minimum learn 1-2 dishes suitable for bringing to a party.

This last one took me the longest: Find out how to truly relax. This is where it comes full circle, and you learn to use your thoughts to control the body. The Reveri app hypnosis routines were helpful to me along this journey.


Thank you for the advice! Some friends and I signed for a basketball class next quarter, which I am looking forward to a lot. It's just a bunch of pick up games twice a week and maybe hitting the gym afterwards together. So I'm hoping that helps keep regular exercise and makes it fun.

I do find cooking to be fun (I hate the clean up though)! I was learning how to cook a few things in summer before school started again and that was enough to last me through the quarter, but I had to buy a meal plan on campus because oftentimes I didn't make the time to cook for myself.

Thank you your input!


> Physical health and brain health and mental health are deeply interconnected.

The Romans used to say: "Mens sana in corpore sano" (healthy mind in a healthy body).

I believe it to be true too.


Making physical things really helped me. I started building speaker cabinets. It’s been an incredible source of joy. Making something in the physical world really is a great way to feel good, especially when most of your work is making things appear on a screen.

Physical activity is also a must. exercise is essential, it really is. Walks, running, the gym, a sport. Whatever. It really really helps.

Taking a a step back and comparing yourself to other people can also really help to put your situation in a better perspective. The average person is doing physical labor to put food on the table. If you can make money siting down indoors and doing something a tiny bit interesting you are very well off. Be grateful.


Lifelong struggle my friend. But you are young so start good habits now.

//Body

Find things you like to do and do it. Every day. Mix it up. Have fun. Running, lifting, rec or social adult sports leagues, if you are into that thing. If you are having fun you will keep up with it.

// Mind

Read and then read some more. Again, do what you enjoy doing. Don’t feel like you have to do something or that if you bounce off something it hadn’t been worthwhile. Just designate X amount of time per day for yourself. Doesn’t have to be a lot.

If you work full time and then do side projects you will inevitably burn out. Hell, if you just work full time you will inevitably burn out. It happens to everyone. Burn out is a signal to mix things up.


Ooh! I like that "burnout is a sign to mix things up". Thank you for the advice!


Side projects are a big thing for me... Recognise that it's okay to play around with an idea (or many ideas) for a bit and abandon it when you're bored. It's not a second day job so try to avoid creating pressure for yourself.


Don't worry about uncertain things, which might not in the end require worrying.

When I was younger I was stressed about way too many IFs, but especially in recent years I try to force myself to not think about things which are not certain to happen in the end, so they are waste of your energy and stressful.

Also related - don't take things too seriously, it must be difficult to accept for perfectionist even half assed work will do it same as perfect work, but it's reality and only one hurting with this it's yourself. These is related to priorities and will be difficult, if work is your biggest priority and you don't have kids or some better hobby.


>> So I feel like I always need to be doing something and then when I do something I feel like I should be doing something else that is "better"

Keep a journal or sketchbook where you right down the ideas first as they occur to you, including notes on level of effort and resources required. Then avoid starting work on an idea that has not been in the journal for at least three months. As you actually work on something you will of course have ideas for something better to work on, but right it down in the journal and come back to it in three months. Ideas that still interest you after three months will be easier to stick with.


I see my former self in much of what you have written, and I still have those traits to a degree.

I have found men’s groups to be surprisingly helpful.

I also hew towards the Buddhist and Neo-Advaita spiritual traditions.

Wishing you good health and equanimity in the coming year.


I have similar problems in that I start a lot of projects but only 'finish' some - in that they find some natural resting point. In my job I grind but for work that is just for me I stop when I stop having fun.

For self care I try to work in strength or cardio training daily. Grinding through training or going for a hike with a weighted backpack sucks but 'grinding' here tends to translate into staying power when 'grinding' elsewhere and you can easily titrate the difficulty with the weight/incline/distance. Building discipline is like a muscle - it has to be exercised.


For the first time since I started doing this 10 years ago; I’ve made a conscious effort to remove Teams from my phone, stop working at 5 (or whatever), and not bother with work until it’s time to start. I also make sure I take time off; getting a limited-vacation job has helped most with this.

I’m at peace with where I am currently and I’ve found there’s more inner peace with who I am more than ever.

So much of my life isn’t about what I do for work. It took me too long to realize this.

It’s just a tool I use in my life. It’s not the tool in my life.


Learn how to say no. The easiest way to get overwhelmed and on your way to a bad mental state is to say yes to everything people ask of you. Learn how to say no to people and your life will be so much easier.

Related to that is to learn how not to give a fuck about anything. The trick there is to learn when to turn that ability on and off. Think of fucks as a limited quantity. If you give a fuck about everything, you won’t have enough fucks to give when it really matters. Conserve your fucks jealously.


Frankly, I don't think there's any useful advice anyone can give you about how to work harder, how to balance side projects, how to deal with feeling lazy or overwhelmed which isn't going to end up with some form of "introspect your thoughts" either alone or with a therapist or a friend or psychedelic drugs. You don't need to choose better projects, you need to understand why you feel stressed and compelled to start and why your motivation fades. You don't need to work harder to beat laziness because you don't have laziness itself you have fear of laziness. You need to understand why you feel both constantly busy and burnt out and lazy at the same time. You don't need better scheduling to stop feeling overwhelmed, you need to understand why you feel overwhelmed when other people who do more don't feel that way, which is possibly driven by some hidden fear of letting people down or feeling like you have to add things you don't want into your todo list.

> "I feel like I always need to be doing something"; "I feel like everything I am doing has to be perfect"; "I like to take well thought out steps in anything I do".

Start with assuming a child is a blank slate, then these behaviours are things you learned. From your post they're making you unhappy. But you're keeping them which suggests you believe the alternatives are worse. I suggest you haven't considered this in years and that's no longer correct or never was. That you mis-learned these thought behaviours in childhood or the alternatives were bad for a child but as an adult you could deal with them, and you haven't reassessed why you think these things[1].

Question for yourself then is, what terrible thing do you fear happenning if you do the opposite of those things? If you stop doing things. If you make imperfect things. If you take thoughtless steps. The answers will likely be right there in your head hiding in plain site. They will be things like images of your dad telling everyone how he knew you were worthless, or your mother crying for 'no reason' but it's somehow your fault, or an image of your future as a drunken homeless person on the streets, or an intense shame for letting your country down, or etc.

The "downward arrow" technique might help you explore that, described in these two podcasts with text summaries:

https://feelinggood.com/2017/10/26/059-live-session-marilyn-...

https://feelinggood.com/2017/05/05/uncovering-self-defeating...

Or this text post:

https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/psyc...

The last thing you describe is "analysis paralysis", being unable to move until you have identified the perfect, unquestionably correct, nobody-can-criticise-this, no-waste, no-chance-of-failing move. It's similar thought behaviour, why do you need to avoid all those possible problems so intensely, what do you feel is so wrong with making a rushed mistake that you'd (overall) rather end up doing nothing and being miserable to avoid it?

> "I am finishing my bachelors in CS this year"

A couple of decades of casually reading self-help and mindfullness and similar resources has brought me to https://feelinggood.com/ and it's the first thing which cuts through the spiritualism and mysticism and takes it to a practical computer-person style "thought debugging". All the podcasts are free, the book ("Feeling Great") isn't, but all the content is on the website.

I recommend anyone and everyone to check it out.

It's based on roughtly the pattern: "The way you think drives how you feel about things. You learned how to think as a child, by imitation, without any planning, with mistakes, hence you feel weird and bad about a lot of things. Debug how you think and you'll feel better. Step 1. measure how you feel about a specific moment. Step 2. study yourself and see what that thing is protecting you from and why it helps. Step 3. try techniques to change how you think and feel. Step 4. measure how you feel again, to tell if it worked or not".

Listening to a few dozen hours of Feeling Good Podcast is my suggestion of what people should do as a New Year's Resolution.

[1] NB. removing the compulsion to do things doesn't leave you doing nothing, it leaves you free from compulsion, not free from doing things you want to do. Removing the fear of laziness doesn't make you lazy, it means you can relax when tired without constant low-grade anxiety.


This was incredibly introspective, which I appreciate. I'll comeback to these questions tomorrow and start figuring out some answers for myself in a notepad or something.

I appreciate the Feeling Good resource. I'll also take a look into that.

Thank you for your input and thoughts!


>How do you avoid burnout and what do you do when you have burnt out?

I've been burnt out since 2018. If you find a remedy let me know. Everything sucks.


I listen to How of Business podcast with David Lopez. He did an episode on Overcoming Perfectionism with Audrey Holst. Perhaps it will help. Here’s a helpful episode https://www.thehowofbusiness.com/391-audrey-holst-overcoming...


Cigarettes, whiskey, and far too much sex. This thing is a one way runaway freight train.


Had that feeling 20 years ago. Any non-professional act you do will be like a kata. Just implement new tech and learn old tech, that will be sufficient. If you want to get serious, you need to do it like you would work an actual job.


> So I feel like I always need to be doing something and then when I do something I feel like I should be doing something else that is "better"

I know that feeling from when I studied. What helps is to clearly set yourself time slots for work (studies, projects,...) and play (meeting friends, doing sports, gaming,...). I've been most productive on days where I either had deadlines to meet or some fun activities in the evenings to look forward to. Avoid „analysis paralysis” and the „dark playground” [1].

> I would also consider myself a perfectionist, so that makes me feel like everything I am doing has to be perfect [...] I like to take well thought out steps in anything I do [...] but sometimes I feel like that holds me back from actually doing the thing I am thinking about and lead to no progress again.

Try to get over that mindset. Embrace the pareto principle (80:20 rule) instead. Done is better than perfect. Have a bias for action, for just doing things and embracing failure instead of overthinking. Applies to both personal and professional life.

> I find side projects to be fun, but motivation to continue working on them dies off within a week or two

If you really want to have a side project that will keep you engaged over a longer time, don't do „portfolio projects” or TODO examaple apps. Instead, try maintaining an existing project that actually has some users. Getting feedback from real users is really motivating, even if the project just has a few dozen stars. It's also a better preparation for your first job, because you'll most like get onboarded on an existing codebase instead of working on a greenfield project.

Build up a regular workout routine. Make it a habit so that at some point you don't have to force yourself to do it but you're the kind of person who simply does it. As a bonus, workouts in the morning provide a lot of mental clarity for the whole day.

If doing CS/studies stuff is easy for you but socializing is difficult, work on being social and enjoying to make friends and talk to people. To me, having a partner and some good friends provides a lot happiness and burnout prevention.

Don't obsess about your studies. You'll need the degree as entry ticket, a good final grade is useful. But nobody in the industry cares about which courses you took.

[1]: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti...


I'm adhering to a pretty strict drug regimen to keep my mind limber.


For me the most important thing is to stay physically active.


Lower the bar. With your overachieving personality, you'll be doing much more than many others even if you feel like you're not doing enough


what I do every day: 1) meditation 2) stretching or exercising with resistance bands 3) manual lymph drainage massage 4) strict diet with carefully calculated calories intake and carbs-fats-proteins ratio 5) walk 10km(part of it is a walking meditation) 6) studying something that keeps challenging my mind(currently it's Game Theory Optimal in poker) 7) sleep at least 8 hrs

as a result, no time for burning out


Are you retired?


not yet, working "full-time" from home. just don't waste my time on "social life", "family" and stuff like that.


When you start working professionally. You need to learn to say no without saying no.

All that stuff will be there tomorrow and most of it can wait.


I cycle thousands of KM per year. I'm learning spanish. Technology is one part of my life among many others.


There's a clear, direct correlation between my level of physical activity and my mental health. If I'm not active, I feel lazy, lethargic, and self-loathing. If I am active, I feel confident, energetic, and ambitious. It doesn't take a lot of activity; just 20-30 minutes of heart-pumping exercise a day.

Taking that a step further, the three keys to life balance seem to be, in this order: sleep, exercise, diet. Get enough sleep, get some kind of physical activity every day, and eat as well as you can, and you should feel pretty good, most days.

As far as side projects go, have you stopped to ask yourself _why_ you want to do them? Is it just an interesting diversion, or does it actually carry some kind of deeper meaning for you? It can be hard to be honest with ourselves, but I think if you can question your motivations, you may find that you're distracted by things that seem interesting on their face, but they aren't really connected to who you are or who you want to be.

Another thought, regarding perfectionism -- it seems to be a learned behavior. For me, it's a combination of two things. On the one side is a fragile self-image built up throughout childhood (I'm "smart" for my age) and feeling a deep need to preserve that image at all costs (if I make a mistake or fail, that's evidence that I and every adult who complimented me on the way was wrong). On the other side is the evil of comparison; venturing into an industry inundated with stories of explosive growth driven by infallible geniuses, I _have_ to measure up. If I throw myself at an idea and the idea or the execution fails, that's concrete evidence that I'm not of the same stock as the titans of my industry. Scary.

There are a few things you can do to combat this:

- Don't compare yourself with anyone else. It can't help you. You're only increasing the downside (failure means you're not good enough, while exceeding your idols would leave you feeling more empty than before).

- Realize that failure is like a forest fire – painful and hard to look at, but the best foundation for rich new growth. If you go out of your way to prevent it, you just make the inevitable disaster so much worse. Embrace it.

- Let go of your story about who you are and how your life "should" be. Speaking from personal experience, it's so easy to get attached to how things "should" go, that you lose sight of what's in front of you. If you can open yourself up to being wrong about who you are and what's important to you...well, you may actually find a much more interesting version of yourself along the way.

- Look for your "why." For a big portion of my career, I chased money. I chose projects I thought could make money, and I changed jobs chasing higher and higher compensation. I hustled and grinded, and in the end, I have little to show for it. It took me 10 years to realize that I would hate myself if I spent my whole life working on stuff I didn't really care about, just to make enough money to escape that hamster wheel and move to a better one. Why not just step off? Figure out what you actually care about, find a "why" that you can attach yourself to, and focus on that. Money is orthogonal to happiness. Sure, being broke can make you miserable. But, being rich won't make you happy. Spending your time focused on things that actually matter to you will. Find out what those things are, and cut out as much of the other bullshit you can.

- Cherish the process. Another thing that took me way too long to figure out was that outcomes never made me happy. There is no fulfillment in achieving outcomes; they are all rungs on a ladder. The true joy and fulfillment comes from loving the process. Be present and cherish the moment. Enjoy the work you are doing. Enjoy the recreation. Enjoy the conversations with people you care about. These things are not means to some important end, they are the important thing. And, if you find yourself doing work you can’t connect to, or buying stuff you don’t like, or engaging with people you don’t appreciate, stop. How lucky are we to have an unprecedented level of autonomy and control over our lives? Why should we spend it doing things we can’t enjoy?


I don’t. Unfortunately.


I actually understand this and wonder how many others feel this way.

Why don't we?


Maybe a lack of sense of meaning/purpose? If you care for some cause you may join as a volunteer (part-time) a reputable pertinent non-profit.


It's a good suggestion, and we need volunteers more than ever (if you can dodge COVID while volunteering). Taking care of others helps you take care of yourself?


You’re taking advice from a drunk man, but get a blue collar job for a year after you graduate and see how you feel. Four possibilities:

1. You’ll love it and keep working it.

2. You’ll hate it and have a newfound appreciation for your relative privilege in CS.

3. You’ll still be ambivalent and not know what to do with yourself because you don’t really know what you want.

4. You’ll combine skillsets and find avenues that others haven’t explored too much.

edit: no matter what the outcome is, you get to make OSHA jokes for the rest of your life.


#4 is what to aim for


Love this idea.


You could probably benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy. Through it you will learn things you can do to improve your situation.

I can tell you that one of my "answers" to half-finishing a lot of projects was committing to only one project at a time until it was done. My perfectionism and procrastination would make it take an extremely long time. It felt bad that I wasn't getting them done faster, but I eventually succeeded and learned some stuff. Would have gone a lot faster if I had not chosen to go my own way and do something different, or if I didn't do other things with my time (cooking, watching TV, working on a different project that was time sensitive).

But that's life. Things don't happen the way you want, they happen the way they happen. Accept the imperfection, the waste of time, the lack of accomplishment. Life doesn't get better if we stress out over things not working out. We don't win any prize for being perfect, either.


Why we should feel sorry for High Achievers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcM6InBjM4

The people who are "crushing it", constantly in the news and making lots of money, may very well be less happy than you.


Physically condition yourself, enjoy quality sleep that is enough, observe the religion of your parents, study, learn and hopefully become wise, expose yourself to sunshine, eat high quality food, drink only water or wine, don’t do to others what you don’t want for yourself.

Edit: please, articulate why you downvote. If you are a nihilist atheist and can’t stand that somebody suggests religion, please say so.


I didn't vote (and HN guidelines discourage talking about the votes themselves), but I do think observing the religion of my parents would be a mistake. Not to say religion/spirituality has no value, but religious institutions are often corrupt and hypocritical.

I'd also object to selecting a religion just because it was what my parents observed.


I have a policy to downvote any post that complains about downvotes. Besides, it's against the site guidelines.

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yes, it's a painful hit to the ego to receive downvotes, but in my experience any post that is downvoted early undeservedly will be upvoted back into the black fairly swiftly.


>observe the religion of your parents,

Why do you assume my parents shared a common religion? Don't most religions demand exclusive observation?

>drink only water or wine

I prefer beer to wine.


Have an upvote - these things are all cultural and this could be solid advice if OP in a similar setting :)


No downvotes here... This is a thread about asking for opinions and advice, and all should be able to be on the table. I am curious as to 'why observe the religion of your parents' is something you advise. For me, not doing so was a painful process for myself and my family in some ways, but continuing to do so was personally untenable. From an objective viewpoint I see the benefits that individuals and communities see from religious cohesion: increased social ties, increased lifespan [1], charitable involvement, etc. I also observe religious institutions as bastions of abuse, misinformation, regressive social stances, and conquest. These are difficult issues to unpack and perhaps this isn't the venue, but I am interested in your perspective on why it is part of the self-care advice you offered.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/ppt/nchs2010/37_hummer.pdf


In principle I was advising to at least observe a religion in a general sense. Once that’s established, only if there is an inexcusable reason and absolute understanding would I recommend to change one’s religion away from that of one’s parents. It’s not that you can’t, but there should be a strong deliberate motive.

Most will read it with an individualistic, reductionist, tabula rasa understanding of Man, in which one can think of religion as a set of rules and beliefs that can be analyzed and chosen like one chooses a career. Under that understanding, the religion of your parents is arbitrary. However, I consider that religion is integral to life and inextricable from oneself, and that we are in fact eternally related to our ancestors.

Edit: This coming from a mechanical engineer with a PhD in finance.




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