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Go the F to Sleep (aplus.rs)
104 points by ingve 41 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 31 comments

This article is about getting a hackintosh with an AMD CPU, on the ASRock X570 motherboard, to successfully suspend to RAM (S3 sleep state).

The original reference is this video of a "children's" book of the same title, read by Samuel L Jackson, for those who've never seen it [0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb0t9TUNLpg

It’s a real book.

I still find it fascinating that people post Hackintosh stuff online and make little or no attempt to hide their identity.

I am no Apple apologist or loyalist, but this is clearly breaking their macOS EULA. Are Apple Legal just turning a blind eye to this stuff where the person is clearly identifiable? OP link goes to a blog post, one click away from there and I know this person's name, city and there's a photo of them. It's trivial.

Don't get me wrong, there's no vendetta or negativity, I am genuinely curious about why people do this.

Violating a EULA isn't illegal - it is a violation of your agreement with a company but not a violation of government law (in most places anyways?). The worst that could happen is being banned from Apple services. Apple gains little benefit from banning individual users, and stands to lose a lot if that person then publishes a blog post or something that goes viral. It would hurt them not just in the mass public perception, but also among developers in particular.

If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes, the logical place to start would be taking down the popular guides and forums discussing how to build hackintoshes, not targeting people who follow those guides. Shutting down a few subreddits / discords would deter far more people than targeting an individual.

Finally, hackintoshes have been around decades. 99% of people who want to use Mac will not have the knowledge/time/energy to do this and will just buy a Mac instead. The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products.

So overall I don't see much risk in doing stuff like this.. the risk/reward for Apple in going after Hackintoshers just doesn't make sense. So hackintosh away ;)

The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products.

Indeed. Setting up a hackintosh is only really feasible for people with some tech chops. In most Western countries, someone with enough technical background to set up a hackintosh machine will probably have an hourly wage where (hardware price + hourly wages x hours to setup/maintain hackintosh) >> purchase price hackintosh.

Setting up and maintaining a hackintosh is just a fun technical challenge for a lot of people. Similar to how running OpenBSD on a PowerPC or SPARC is fun. Some will also use hackintosh because Apple doesn't offer the hardware that they want.

Apple seems to draw a line at selling Hackintosh machines (see e.g. their lawsuit against Psystar [1]). Fully compatible, supported hackintoshes would be a threat to Apple's bottom line.


Both me and a family member installed OS X on a HP/Dell laptop in 2007 as sort of a challenge. We both liked OS X so much that we had both bought a Mac Mini and a MacBook in weeks and have been users since then.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation

If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes they'd develop their own custom CPU that they owned and no one else had access to.

I think it is very obvious that this was not their motivation. Hobbyist hackintosh is barely a blip on the radar. They switched to their own CPU because Intel screwed up, plus they want to increase vertical integration.

But of course, it is quite likely that once Apple kills x86_64 macOS, it's also the end of Hackintosh. Apple uses too many proprietary extensions (e.g. AMX) and custom hardware (neural engine, GPU, etc.) to make running macOS on generic ARM hardware easy.

Indeed, they did own 40% of ARM as a co-founder at one point. When iOS is 90% of your business you need to reduce the costs of the other 10%

If the government was seriously concerned about tracking people they'd manufacture a viral pandemic and put microchips in the vaccine.

Is that a good reason to believe that COVID was created by the government? M1/Hackintosh - same reasoning, different example.

At least in most of EU EULAs that weren't individually negotiated and that the end user is forced to accept to use the product are automatically illegal. I.e. almost all of them.

The way Americans let their IT overlords dictate their lives seems pretty absurd from here :)

The EULA may be illegal, but copyright still prevents you from making copies of the software. So hackintosh is most likely also illegal in Europe, like downloading movies or music.

Are you sure? My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies (often with software it's impossible not to). Distributing those copies is restricted, but I can back up a installer or install to my other machine without violating any statutes.

IANAL, this is not legal advice.

My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies

Personal copy (singular). However, more relevant in this context:

You are allowed to download a work protected by copyright from the internet provided you have the author’s permission. The permission to download can be indicated in the terms and conditions of the respective internet site or can be derived from the reference to an open content licence or its terms.

If you do not have a Mac, Apple does not give you permission to download macOS. So, if you download macOS, you are violating copyright law. Furthermore:

The circumvention of TPMs (technological protection measures) is not allowed.

Probably using the Apple OSK string is on a Hackintosh considered circumventing protection measures.

Source: https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-o...

I am your lawyer and this is legal advice.

I think a decent (legal or moral) argument can be made either way here.

The circumvention of TPMs is allowed in the case that they restrict you from exercising your rights and you cannot obtain a remedy from the rightholder.

Furthermore it might be useful to look at the Computer Programs Directive. I quote a Wikipedia summary here:

> The legal owner of a program is assumed to have a licence to create any copies necessary to use the program and to alter the program within its intended purpose (e.g. for error correction). The legal owner may also make a back-up copy for his or her personal use. The program may also be decompiled if this is necessary to ensure it operates with another program or device (Art. 6), but the results of the decompilation may not be used for any other purpose without infringing the copyright in the program.

For an implementation of this directive in English you can look at e.g. the Irish one at [0], particularly regulations 5, 6 and 7.

It's also worth bearing in mind that EUIPO is a "network of experts and specialist stakeholders" who aren't necessarily writing from the perspective of consumer rights.


Downloading isn't illegal here. Sharing is.

I've never heard Apple ever go after any individual Hackintosh user. Only companies that attempt to sell them.

Also, EULAs are basically digital toilet paper in large parts of the world.

Depending on the country the Apple EULA may or may not hold

I think for a lot of people the amount of fucks given is almost zero. Has Apple ever gone after a user in a way to cause others to take caution?

> For almost a year now, my own build using AMD 5900X running on ASRock X570 ITX board had sleep disabled

My m1 macbook air cannot go to deep sleep either. Whenever battery deeps to 0% it crashes. It's been supremely annoying and haven't found a way to solve it yet

2016 MacBook Pro - whenever it sleeps it crashes, reinstalled OS no go. It used to work, then one day it started crashing and the same ever since. Seems to be a recurring problem from my googles.

I used to have an issue with sleep crashing my MacBook until I upgraded to Big Sur. Luckily I don't think I've had any issues on Big Sur.

Have you tried booting into recovery partition and running repair permissions in disk util?

Speaking of Hackintosh, with the transition to M1, does this have an impact on that? At some point Apple just drops all x86 support from the kernel after 5ish years, right? Surely no x86 chip will be able to run it then so unless someone spends the time porting it to generic ARM laptop/desktop CPUs (which AFAICT are not on any near time horizon in that space)…

With macOS Monterrey Apple is set to introduce a number of features that work only on m1 Macs. Even the Intel Macs Apple still sells are fast becoming second-class citizens and hackintosh are non-citizens with no support or consideration.


Apple has always done this and will continue to always do this. Some amount of this is as an incentive to upgrade. Some of this is because the experience isn’t good (performance or battery issues, or not possible because the necessary HW isn’t present).

Where it’s the former, government needs to step in with regulations about planned obsolescence/curbing ewaste. However, I’m not sure there’s much value in such legislation and that it would effectively curb ewaste. If it wasn’t cool looking marquee features, they would find some other way to make you want new shiny things. The problem is people want shiny new things. Apple will just push for even more HW tie in to features which isn’t necessarily that good for the consumer.

Where it’s the former, government needs to step in with regulations about planned obsolescence/curbing ewaste.

I think that it's likely that they will continue to provide security updates for some period after they axe x86_64 support.

They are still releasing security updates for iOS 12 after all, to extend the lifetime of iPhone 5s (released in 2013!) and iPhone 6.

Ewaste isn’t just about security updates, but yes, Apple does legitimately have one of the best software support stories on the industry. My critiques generally come from a place of admiration and respect and wanting them to excel. Same as my critiques of the American government.

The impact today when both architectures are supported is less.

However, this is far from the first time Apple have changed architectures. Running older OSs for different architectures _tends_ towards emulation, which does cause some difficulty. (Performance impact, DRM subsystems that try and break under virtualisation, etc.).

However, there are still "hardware" efforts like this. [0] So long as there is curiosity, you can expect that someone will eventually succeed.

Partial efforts like Wine's support for the M1 [1], help to close the gap around translating things that are unique to Apple's architecture.

[0] http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~sedwards/apple2fpga/

[1] https://www.winehq.org/announce/6.0.1

Who else thought it was some clever "Go Vs F#" article ?

I thought it was an article about going to sleep.

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