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techwhizbang 980 days ago | link | parent

I disagree with the author about how it suffers from being on the JVM. In fact, I'm not quite sure the author even knows what the full scope of that sentiment means. I believe it is quite the contrary. With respect to the JVM not getting any better, it just did. "invokedynamic" was introduced with the latest release of JDK7 and is directly related to the support of dynamic language such as Clojure and JRuby. Using the JVM opens a bunch of doors for a burgeoning language that normally it would have to re-invent. In this case, because it is on the JVM it doesn't have to re-invent the wheel it can re-use existing and proven libraries, performance and monitoring tools, etc. I will conceded that documentation can be spotty, but it isn't any worse than most new languages, and it is continually getting better. Furthermore, if you really want to give issue such strong opinions about a language you ought to spend mor time with it than just a day or 2. IMHO your writeup is shallow and not well conceived.


dandrews 980 days ago | link

Indeed, Clojure's excellent Java interop gives me easy access to existing Java libraries. And because it runs on the JVM, I've been able to execute Clojure apps under z/OS (you know, the day job).

I'd call Clojure's use of the JVM a win, not a liability.

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andrewcooke 980 days ago | link

given how stalled the JCP seems to be (the disappointment with 7 and the general sentiment against oracle) i can't see TCO ever being fixed and i wonder how much tolerance there will be for third party expansion (without lawsuits or licencing). i agree that invokedynamic is going to help, but even there you can argue that it took a long time in coming (when did davinci appear? 2008? three long years....)

but i agree it's not a "deep" analysis. did you miss the part where i said i had only used the language for a day? or the word "initial" in the title?

[edit:] actually, there is one more thing i want to say. one thing that has discouraged me from looking at clojure earlier is the agressiveness i've seen from the language's fanboys. fwiw.

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ConstantineXVI 980 days ago | link

It's worth noting that Clojure runs on the .NET/Mono CLR as well.

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