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Hey everyone,

I am the founder behind Orion, bootstrapping the project. Started working on it three years ago with a small team just to see if it would be possible to build something like this from scratch and we just kept going. Orion is today a daily browser for a few dozen beta-testers and it warms my heart to see that we got that far considering the competition.

Few questions about Orion answered that I see pop put in the comments:

- Orion uses native Keychain integration for passwords and will use iCloud Sync to sync between devices. We have full import from Safari, including passwords [1]

- Orion uses a slightly modified WebKit which allows us to run Chrome/Firefox extension support layer on top of it (about 70% of all extensions currently work in Orion - including uBlock Origin). We are planning to complete the support in the upcoming months.

- Orion is currently trying to get to the feature parity of the reference browser (Safari).

- Orion features developer tools from Safari with a few extra ones like the Error indicator in the address bar [2] We just started with this, expect many useful additions in the future.

- Orion is designed as a zero-telemetry browser.

- Orion iOS also features a number of useful innovations like the Data saver mode [3] and multiline URL edit [4]

- The business model for Orion is to have a Pro version for those who want to support its development.

I was the founder of ManageWP [5] which got acquired by GoDaddy in 2016. Moved from Belgrade, Serbia to SF Bay Area as part of the acquisition. Spent a couple of years there as VP of Product and then decided I want to build Orion and Kagi (privacy-respecting alternative to Google search), because one ambitious project was not enough :) Main reason for this is the concern for the future of the internet and the web my children will grow into using.

[1] https://twitter.com/vladquant/status/1431290547877007363

[2] https://twitter.com/vladquant/status/1445301620187693056

[3] https://twitter.com/vladquant/status/1429588837391507458

[4] https://twitter.com/vladquant/status/1441511763631960074

[5] https://managewp.com




Hi there! Orion looks great and so far ticks all boxes for me. One thing I am wondering and that I don‘t see answered anywhere yet: Does/will it support PWAs both on iOS and MacOS?


In the same way Safari does (so it basically doesn't :) We can go into various reasons why is that the case but fundamentally we agree with that approach.

What we are planning to do though is have "Web apps" support, similar to Flotato [1], which will allow the user to achieve the same (or better) effect.

[1] https://www.flotato.com/


Interesting! Would that also work on iOS or desktop only? I am asking because I would like to be able to have a seamless code-server experience on iPad.


We will have a similar version of that for iOS.


Wow that sounds too good to be true! Will definitely support this project!


This looks like a very interesting project! Do you have plans to support anything like Firefox Containers? They're a really fantastic feature for the privacy-conscious.


Yes, on our roadmap. Trying to solve for UX and reduce complexity.

Imagine a menu:

Open in New Tab

Open in New Private Tab

Open in New Container

Open in New Window

Open in New Private Window

Open in New Container Window

+ Tab groups! Oh my...

It is a bit too much, needs to be simplified.


Wait, is this the same Kagi that used to provide shareware payment processing services some decades ago?

Edit: Hmm, I guess not https://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/01/kagi-shuts-down/



This is an exciting project - I’ll definitely follow it closely. Do you have any plans in particular to make it especially useful to developers? It would be amazing to have a lightweight browser that’s easy on the battery like safari but with excellent dev tools.

Noticing your name - are you a free diver? If so what are your favourite dive locations?


We plan to integrate Design tools as well as Responsive modes found in some niche browsers. Orion (and Safari) actually have the ability to offer best iPhone emulation for desktop developers since they use the same rendering engine.


> "Orion features developer tools from Safari with a few extra ones... We just started with this, expect many useful additions in the future."


I noticed that part, and I suppose what I was wondering more specifically was if “many useful additions” might mean powerful tools for developers or something less ambitious.


Congrats for the project! Love the simple UI and extensions support.

Don't you fear being held back by WebKit, which is notoriously slow to implement new web platform features? Can you give some insights on how you chose the engine?

Thanks!


Thank you!

To answer the question, we need to go a step back and answer how did we chose the platform first. The decision to go with macOS first was made in 2018 for the simple reason that we thought macOS has a bright future as a consumer OS. This was pre-M1 so we are glad to see macOS adoption grow!

Once we settled on macOS, WebKit was a natural choice as it is the web rendering engine supported by the OS manufacturer. This would enable us to have best performance and OS integration features. The drawback was lack of any browser app frameworks so we basically had to write the browser app from scratch.

I am not that worried about WebKit's slow(er) pace of web platform feature adoption (although I'd love to see something like AVIF support etc.) partly because I know that these decisions are carefully weighted for their impact (what is the right level of hardware/browser/web separation for example). In the future, if Orion becomes success, we hope to be able to have full time contributors to help accelerate its development.


WebKit has AVIF support no? I thought it was Safari specific, because it uses OS level image rendering?


Yes correct, I meant WebKit on macOS, which is waiting for OS level support although WebKit level support already exists.




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