Microsoft announces Windows 11 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27618805
Also, as for legal actions, strongly doubt it. Apple has required an Apple ID on their iPhones and iPads for years during setup.
No they haven't. The setup process encourages using an Apple ID, but it has never been required.
Things like backup and password reset are just so convenient that they outweigh the very theoretical privacy risk for most people.
Everyone already has a windows install, so the only growth is to charge more. It doesn't really matter how; windows will cost more
Thankfully I only use that machine for gaming.
It's probably highly dependent on your graphics drivers in fairness. But with regards to the comments on the 200 -> 140 hz drop, I have a genuine question: how much of an impact does that have unless you have a 240 hz monitor?
- They ask you to when you buy it
- They ask you to in an email after you buy it
- It prompts you during install
- It prompts you right after you installed
- It prompts you when you try and update the non-operating-system software that came with the computer, and doesn't let you upgrade it if you don't create one.
And probably a whole lot more prompts that I missed.
It also uses dark patterns to imply that you must enter payment information for you account. Took me 15 minutes of googling to figure out how to create one without entering payment information.
Windows hides the option more, mac holds updating offline apps hostage, safari browser extensions hostage, and tries to trick you into entering payment information.
Both are terrible.
So they will finally get what they couldn't finalize in W10. These folks have no shame.
Folks, if you were thinking Windows 11 will bring less telemetry, you were wrong :-)
So we decided to make meaningless and confusing UI changes! Nevermind that billions of people rely on their knowledge of this OS's interface, fuck 'em! We're just so damn innovative all the time!
I mean, honestly, does anyone else yearn for the pre-2000 Internet? It sure feels increasingly like we're living in a tech dystopia.
But Windows is less and less a money maker for Microsoft, so it's the obvious route.
When Windows 10 was first released I figured they would finish up the new control panel and deprecate the old one, but instead several years have passed with no progress whatsoever on the problem and it is still a pain point with Windows 10. Certainly it can't be that hard to copy over the missing features? Did the control panel team quit en-masse in 2015?
Some of them go back to Win2k/NT and if you start looking through them carefully, you'll probably notice the sediment layers of just about every major Windows release. I doubt that's going to change in Win 11. That said 'no progress whatsoever' is not quite accurate, most of the significant Win 10 updates have expanded what the new control panels can do.
They also do loads of shims/special treatments for specific apps based on a compatibility database. Worst case scenario, they could rewrite the top ~100 most common ones and make “Legacy Control Panel” an optional feature that is off by default.
It has been 5+ years since Windows 10 came out, longer since 8, Microsoft really doesn’t need people making excuses for them.
I feel like they're just aligning with macOS now. Not that I'm complaining, the video and the interface all are sexy.
I can't tell if the icons get larger as you hover. That sort of magnifies this problem, as the start button would shift left as other icons are highlighted.
I think you're comparing apples and oranges though - with web pages, the issues are readability and aesthetics, whereas with the taskbar it's that icons are where you expect them to be (when centred, they will move as you open more windows).
IMO, a more apt comparison is the tabs of a browser, rather than the content the browser is showing.
If you have such a large screen that you can't quickly move your pointer to anywhere on it, I suggest that you have a bigger problem with your system than where your Start menu appears.
Fun fact btw, in win 95 the border of the start button was not clickable, so slamming into the corner did not work because of that 2px border. Microsoft was proud of presenting this feature in later versions, don't remember if it was in 98, 2000 or XP.
Everybody except hn readers who live in their own bubble.
There's a name for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law
and the fact that their UI people somehow have forgotten about it speaks volumes.
> Taskbar functionality is changed including: Alignment to the bottom of the screen is the only location allowed.
EDIT: Sorry I misread, you meant the icons. But yeah unfortunately it sounds like you can't move the taskbar as a whole anymore. I always kept mine at the top.
Although considering I've seen no one else mention this issue, I'm guessing I'm a huge outlier.
Have Microsoft forgotten the lessons they learned so hard since 1995? The start button being in the corner has real usability benefits.
They ruined the taskbar a long time ago, the button grouping thing is absolutely horrible and can only be partially turned off... hopefully they at a minimum kept the full button option somewhere.
And the centering... if new stuff is added and it recenters, it means things are moving all the time. eeek.
Then again they were never completely consistent. For example in Win3.x design 3D elements were supposed to be for those that cause some command to be performed, yet the scrollbar visual design was the same as that of buttons.
The bad news is Apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS people in charge of macOS. The new safari looks insanely bad.
I still prefer i3 ... but I can understand why a nontechnical user might prefer a mac device to a windows(10) device. Someone at Apple clearly knows about UI/UX.
At least we can finally go from one machine to another without too much of a difference or having to learn much - particularly good for those who only use what they "know".
> app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15
This is great. That's how it s done
I wouldn't mind a complete visual regression to Windows 7. In fact, I remember that Win 7 Aero only had rounded corners.
Except that the rounding only happened on the window decoration, which took space. The client rendering area was a full rectangle. Now, they’re cutting corners out of the client rendering area.
Windows 8 distinctly had no rounded corners. The metro design language was quite square
I'll just say that my laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga) has a touchscreen and I love it. Every laptop I buy from here out will be a touchscreen merely because the ability to reach up while I type and just tap where i want my mouse to go next is such a better system than working with a nipple or trackpad.
I think as laptops with touchscreens become more affordable lots of people will change across. When i'm forced to work on my work laptop without KB&M, I really miss the ability to touch my screen instead of working with the god awful trackpad.
Besides, this "touch-first" approach has been tried with win8 and in my experience it was atrocious
But there isn't a perpetual Agreement guaranteeing MS won't ever increase its cut in the future when its store becomes more popular. The Store hasn't yet been terribly successful. Most of my Windows apps are installed outside the MS store: Notepad++, VSCodium, Steam, and so on. So MS will try to get more apps in the Store and then lock down Windows like iOS once it has enough apps, then increase its own cut so that it can transfer wealth from the middle class to billionaire MSFT shareholders, just like AAPL does.
Transparent windows and widgets make it more like Vista.
> This is great. That's how it s done
It can't go on, though. Why won't every developer turn their app "free" and use Stripe or something to shave even more off the commerce fees? Meanwhile Microsoft eats hosting/maintenance/development on the store for zero return. We saw why Apple went the IAP route even if it's unpopular among developers and the fees could afford to be reduced.
The official Microsoft logo is still flat square.
> The only real question is, will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years. [I use it every day and don’t want them to make it into some simplified screen]
Microsoft truly can’t win!
One person praises it for being ugly while another for its beauty, while another criticises the central alignment of the taskbar and another says it’s a fundamentally stupid choice.
Just pull the band aid fast. Can't adjust the UI for inconsistencies in long time users muscle memory. They will adjust to a consistent UX.
I don't know how this doesn't bug other people more. It's completely unfinished. Plenty of settings haven't moved from their XP or Windows 7 menus, as new "metro" 8/10 settings menus are created that have missing settings, new settings, and conflicting settings.
The new W10 interface to set a static IP will conflict with the old one (adapter properties) without telling you. Happy debugging.
Win11 from what they've revealed looks like a moderate improvement? But I know what they're not showing is how the desktop will look with several non-native MS applications open, the nonsense of the theming across Office applications, and Explorer with its inexplicable tab bars.
It makes me disappointed that something so ubiquitous and essential to peoples' work can't aspire to be aesthetically, if not beautiful, at least nice.
Overall I don't think every Microsoft app ever made is going to get a facelift but it really seems like all of the main user facing apps have actually been updated together for once.
The ODBC Driver interface for configuration is tied to the old dialog.
The interface for the drivers was designed around GetOpenFileName() as it was at the time.
One of the features of GetOpenFileName/GetSaveFileName is that the structure passed in can include two special options- a function pointer to a hook routine, as well as a custom dialog template which windows will insert.
The functions were improved in Windows 95 with the "Explorer style". Even old programs get this style at the very least, because windows will imply the flag.
unless a template or hook routine is specified. See if a hook routine or template is specified and the OFN_EXPLORER flag is not, then the hook routine or template was designed for the old-style dialog. Windows uses the old-style dialog in this instance so that the program can run and doesn't crash.
The ODBC Driver configuration uses a dialog template to add the "read Only" and "Exclusive" checkboxes. That is why it shows the old style dialog.
People might say, "They should update it"
If GetOpenFileName()'s ability to fallback to the old-style dialog is removed, than you won't see this dialog. Instead, it will crash. Cool. great experience.
the driver interface? OK great. so now there is a new version of the ODBC Driver interface. Now all the ODBC Drivers need to be updated. Some of the drivers were written by companies that are either out of business or rather different. I have this sneaking suspicion that Paradox software isn't going to be writing a new ODBC Driver for the MS-DOS Database.
Just drop everything? OK Cool.... so now companies get forcibly upgraded to Windows 11 and literally cannot do business because they rely on them in some manner. "They should upgrade". I won't get into that except to say it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but companies in that position are far more likely to find ways to not upgrade the software that caused the problem so, you know, they can keep doing business. And not upgrading the OS is certainly cheaper than countless thousands of man-hours in upgrading their Business software.
And a big thing people don't understand about backwards compatibility is it's not just about old programs working. It's about new ones working to.
If Microsoft removed all "backwards compatibility", than practically nothing would actually work. Software would be constantly crashing, sending error reports, etc. Now, call me crazy, but somehow that doesn't seem like it's a great experience. And if upgrading to Windows X+1 suddenly caused programs to crash left & right, nobody is going to blame the programs.
people who fail to understand this have basically no clue about complex systems evolution over tens of years, or have only produced their own cloud-managed service.
so, yeah, Microsoft is faring very well. OSes after windows 7 are extremely stable considering the diversity of components and packages that run on top of it.
apple killing all backward compatibility is not necessarily a good thing. we are talking right to repair? then what what right does an OS vendor to kill backwards-compatible components?
"Really old games" probably don't have the same backward compatibility weight as "really really really old business software". As a good example a friend of mine with a local business just had me migrate his 16 bit ordering system from the 90s... to Windows 10... and I'll be damned it worked.
Well, consider me scared.
I'd be happy if they could finally get round to answering questions like "open the file called file.ext", rather than doing something terrifying like guessing what I might have meant by uploading absolutely everything to their own servers.
However, it looks like many modern systems don't have TPM 2.0 enabled in the BIOS, and will come back with "This PC can't run Windows 11" (including mine - Asus Prime X470 Pro with Ryzen 2700X, 32GB RAM, 1.5TB storage, Radeon RX 5600 XT.)
Smells like Classic Redmond Hubris.
Screenshot of the security processor page: https://i.imgur.com/ZWtq8EO.png
Screenshot of the PC health check: https://i.imgur.com/Rb3eZIc.png
(For example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237446-REG/asus_tpm_... )
You do not need any external module on machines with fTPM/PTT support (i.e. if you bought it in the last few years).
Oh well, Windows 10 will be the last MS OS to be installed on it, 100% Linux it is.
Hard to believe that they didn't learn from Windows 8, but they didn't.
Also: weren't we told multiple times that there would be no successor to Windows 10? That all future versions of Windows would just be updates?
I think CERN engineers while working on web and www protocol were using unix as windows was not even there yet.
> The web was born and grew up on Windows
The first part is just a lie, the second part is open for interpretation, but certainly not the formative years.
I'd like to think that, but I am not sure if that's actually true.
It's hard to get real numbers, for sure. There's counts based on what the server shipped with, when those used to be bundled, which favors Windows. And there's counts of active servers on the internet, which favors Unix-like. Both counts are fundamentally flawed for various reasons.
I did, though, get a chuckle out of Microsoft's slide that showed more Linux instances than Windows ones on Azure: https://build5nines.com/linux-is-most-used-os-in-microsoft-a...
For many home users that is a reality, even if it is not historically accurate. And, more importantly, I think that highlights the current position of Windows.
In the 90s and 2000s, Windows was synonymous with computing, the office and the Internet. Nowadays, Android and iPhone are the point of contact with the world for most people. Windows has lost that position.
What I read is "The web was born and grew up on Windows" ... and we want Windows to be its future. That is what, I think, it follows from that statement and the goal of Windows 11.
This is super cool, but honestly I don't see myself using any Android apps on Windows.
Like you though, I can't imagine why I'd want to use Android apps on my desktop... I'd prefer to use my Android phone/tablet, where such apps were designed to run. Now, I'm thinking maybe I'm not the target market for this feature... but then I wonder, who is? For example, they mention TikTok - does your average TikTok user even have a Windows PC? And if so, why would they prefer to sit in front of a desktop to view short videos, rather than their phone or TV?
I probably shouldn't expect different, but it's a bummer that you apparently won't be able to to load paid Google Playstore apps. I have several reference apps that are paid and would love to run those on my desktop since no web or native app exists.
There's also just more developer focus on android than windows for a lot of small apps like free VPNs, currency converters etc, leading to better choice/quality/discoverability than native windows apps.
Which holiday? Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Labor Day... Fourth of July?
Maybe Halloween would be appropriate, given how scary any major Windows upgrade is to enterprise orgs.
If they said "this holiday season", that would probably mean December timeframe, but they don't say that.
They repeat this confusing reference later on:
> The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and [...]
Why can't they just a) commit to a date or month, and b) specify UTC time for their launches.
Their PR/marketing department dropped the ball on this specific phrase. At the same time it seems that marketing department slip ups are common these days.
If they mean Christmas time, I.e. December or winter, they should just say December or winter. That would be more clear.