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Nurses, firefighters, and military already work unusually bad hours but they don’t seem to be especially well-paid.



One thing that the pandemic lockdowns have revealed in glowing detail is that the vast majority of the most critical and important jobs in society are among the lowest-paid: retail and foodservice.


> the most critical and important jobs in society are among the lowest-paid: retail and foodservice

Pay has nothing to do with how critical or important a job is. Nothing.

Pay is determined — like everything else — by supply and demand.

Nails are the most ‘critical and important’ component of a house. They are also the cheapest. Because the supply is endless. The chandelier in the entryway, on the other hand, is neither critical nor important, yet it costs a great deal more than a nail.


Nah, it's status. We have a teacher and nurse shortage in the US, they're critical professions, and they're super underpaid. Supply and demand doesn't explain the low wages.


You just described supply and demand.

If the wages are too low, you’ll have a shortage.

To remediate the shortage, wages must increase.


Yeah but step 2 of that is "wage increase" (then step 3 of that is "either school A increases wages or school B increases wages and gets all the teachers, etc.) You can't arbitrarily pick a point at which you stop making an appeal to authority to Econ 101; it's all or nothing.

The point here is, the situation should make us ask ourselves "huh, I wonder why wages aren't increasing." But I can save you some time and tell you the answer is mostly we don't think those jobs are high status enough.


Comparing people to nails is a new one! I'm not sure I find it apt, though.

>Pay has nothing to do with how critical or important a job is

Well yeah, that's the observation I was describing. The difference is that I think that's a bad thing.

>supply and demand

We aren't describing free markets, so you're going to have to fill that out a little bit to meet reality.


In the US, nurses (at least RNs) and firefighters are well paid, but military are not. I imagine the well-paid jobs vary quite a lot per nation.


As a member of the military:

I'm compensated fairly, and my pension makes it actually quite well compensated. The career does suck and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but for someone needing mobility from generational poverty it can work.

The career opportunities upon retirement are nothing to be trivialized either. Compensation there may not be SWE level, but it's WELL above median.


Military isn't paid too badly once you factor in pensions and benefits. The amount of salary that you'd have to save to construct something similar out of 401ks is... high.


I don’t think many people understand just HOW high.

Aside from monetary compensation (which can range widely, and typically is made up of 25-50% tax sheltered disability pay) there is health insurance at a maximum out of pocket of $3600/year for a family ($600 premium plus $3000 catastrophic cap), tax free shopping, discounted fuel, free flights, remarkably cheap lodging all over the US and in allied countries, and the list goes on.

The last calculation I saw for an average Senior Enlisted retiree was that you would need a lump sum of in excess of $3 million to hope to compare, invested at a decent return. Albeit that’s not completely accurate, but it’s as close as we can get given such different financial vehicles.


The downside is that you have to serve in the military.


Serving ain't the bad part. Dying would have sucked.


A lot of firefighters are volunteers


The military seems to pay pretty well considering the requirements.


That's because one of the requirements is willingness to get shot at.


It's more like the requirement to do the job without being able to quit for at least a few years (and then they can call you back anytime for another few).


For me, at least theoretically, getting shot at is not as bad as having to kill others.


A lower chance of getting to use the pension means better benefits. Actuarial math.


Yeah, but if you decided to pay nurses/firefighters the same salary for putting in half the hours, you'd have to hire twice as many to cover the same shifts. Net result is your labor costs would double.


Probably more due to people overhead.




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