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Ask HN: Advices for Burnout and Depression?
39 points by drywater2 on May 20, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 23 comments
Hello HN.

Thanks for clicking. I hope I won't waste your time.

It's been some time since I've been struggling with depression. But something else happened for the last two months. I quit my job due to burnout. I couldn't handle the stress anymore and I felt it was a really toxic place.

Fast forward today... I'm still depressed and I still retained many addictions (porn, internet, smartphone, eating at late hours, excessive amounts of coffee) I have developed during this pandemic and working from home.

I still need to get a job eventually, but my brain doesn't let me have a break. I just feel guilty most of the time. If I try to sleep in the afternoon I still wake up panicked about where my life is going.

I tried practicing leetcode lately but I tend to panic and have feelings of guilt when I don't seem to know something trivial. I feel like I've become just a dumber version of myself while having a salary.

For the last 5 years I've been coding in C++. I simply don't want to see CMake anymore. I feel like I missed a lot of exciting stuff in other fields such as Data Science, ML, Cloud computing while I was just looking at compiler flags and treating signals, not even doing embedded, just system programming. I've been looking into Python and Go lately for a change, but I don't feel any real motivation.

Thanks for reading. I really could use some advice. I'm sorry if I wasted your time.




Go to bed at 21-23 and get up at 08 every day.

Eat breakfast when you get up, lunch around noon and dinner at 18:00, even if the meals are just small ones. Healthy food is better, but it’s the schedule that’s important.

Try to do the housework as you notice it. See a dirty dish? Clean it right away. See dirt on the floor? Vacuum it. But do it in small bursts where you don’t exhaust yourself. It’s perfectly fine to just vacuum the parts where you noticed the dirt and not the entire room for instance.

Try to keep your mind on whatever your doing. If you’re vacuuming you’re vacuuming. You’re not vacuuming while thinking about your finances.

Take a long walk each day, preferably in nature. Figure out which time is the least stressful for you. For some it’s morning, others it’s evenings, and others it’s not the same time each day but changing.

Stop worrying about your future. Whenever you get the dark and worried thoughts, tell yourself that things will work out. (This bit is going to feel stupid until it doesn’t).

Take some time out each day to give yourself compliments, possibly in front of a mirror. (This bit is asleep going to feel stupid until it doesn’t).

Don’t beat yourself up if you go days without doing any of these things, or anything in general. It’s perfectly ok to have “non-days”, especially when you’re depressed.

All of these things are hard to learn, and learning them and staying motivated with them while they are not working is easier if you get therapy.


> This bit is going to feel stupid until it doesn’t

It's exactly like this. When your mind gets better, some things that seemed extremely relevant become unimportant and it gets way easier to just say "yeah, when a problem comes, I'll work it out".

For example, I used to think and worry a lot, in an unhealthy way, about how I was going to afford a top college for all my children. Except I don't have children and most likely won't in the next years.


Hey,

Can I suggest the obvious? Therapy. We developers try to believe that everything that goes through us is rational, but it could be that unprocessed emotions are clouding your mind and making things harder for you. A Therapist might have trouble with computers but understands emotions very well and might help you to understand what you want and what really bothers you.

It is very hard to go through this alone and they can be the helping hand for us. If you have very good relationship with your family, partner or friends, that can be helpful as well, as long as it is positive and you feel heard. It is normal to also hit roadblocks and end up in a similar situation as you, having the right support should help you to cross this path.

Another thing I've noticed is that you have a big tendency to depreciate yourself and have extremely high expectations for you. Leetcode problems are hard and many trival things(like remembering how to calculate a median) isn't something everybody remember. You don't need to know it all. Also to receive a salary you don't need to be the very best of your field, you just need to do some work and your part. We aren't robots.

I am also having a hard time during the pandemic, if you feel like talking feel free to reach me out. I actually envy a lot C++ devs and their flags even though I know "cloud computing" ;-).


Hey friend. I've been through some similar experiences myself, so I understand where you're coming from. Right now it probably feels like there is no hope but - trust me - there is. You must be a smart person, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to hold down a C++ job for five years. So you know you have talents and abilities that many other people didn't. For now, give yourself a break though. The fact that you have posted here shows that you, deep down, really want to make a better life for yourself and you are prepared to put the effort in to make that happen. You are the only person who can give yourself the life you truly want, but it's OK to ask for help when you need it. You are not alone, and you don't have to go through this alone. Maybe start by reflecting on those addictive patterns that you've already recognized, try instead to get regular sleep, get some exercise, spend at least some time outdoors. I won't write any more now because it's late in my timezone and I'm still in the process of teaching myself the discipline to order my life and define my own idea of success. You are strong. You've got this. Just give yourself some time and start trying to develop some healthy habits as a foundation for everything else.


1. Go outside, walking for a bit whenever you can pursuade yourself. 2. Don't beat up yourself if you don't do it. 3. Talk to people. Be vulnerable. You'll be surprised how easy people open up. 4. Get some help dealing with your depression and burnout. Burnout/boreout is caused by doing things that take energy from you, or don't give you energy for too long. 5. Commit to finding out who you are. What drives you as a person? What gives you energy when you do it? 6. Learn to recognize when you're expending more energy than you get from work. This slowly drains your mental battery. Being able when this is happening allows you to either take a recharge break, or communicate to your boss that you need something else.

These pointa help me to not get in this situation again.


> I simply don't want to see CMake anymore.

It's certainly not CMake. It could happen with Jupyter notebooks or Monoids.

That you wield tools with which you can do a lot doesn't mean you literally can do everything. The purpose of life is replication and you need to figure out how to leave your mark. As other commenters suggested, a family is a practical way to address this. Or write a book, or run classes in your community college, or contribute to OSS.

Keep on doing what you are good at, don't try to be a carpenter. Just don't do it for your ego, or you will end up lonely. Do it for real people (and no no no, don't do it for real people in order to feed your ego).

You're good, don't waste it!


If your financial situation allows it consult a professional.

Go outside regurarily, exercise would be best.

Techwise i think that Go is a good idea if you are coming from C++ and want to get into cloud and web stuff.

Instead of leetcode i would try to create a small tool involving 2 technologies that is manageable to create in a few days. Finishing something feels very good and the positive feedback can get you into a positive loop.


> If your financial situation allows it consult a professional. Go outside regurarily, exercise would be best.

good advice.

to some extent we're all collections of habits - some helpful, some not so much. if there's a new habit that might be helpful to form (for me one is going for a 1+ hour walk in the sunshine every day - ideally 3 hours or so - unplugged from technology) then you can try it out. focus on making small incremental improvements. a few weeks or months of incremental improvements build up over time. one step at a time.


Please, please read the "Feeling Good" by David D. Burns. This book will help you recognise some destructive patterns in your mind and will teach you how to stop them.


You're just having fear of missing out with regards to technology. Don't worry.

Simple steps that work: 1. Create a schedule of work and exercise 2. Stick to it 3. Get better sleep as a result of exercise 4. Speak to at least one person every day, even if it's just via text or video call

Rust might be a good shout as it's similar to c++ and there are tons of jobs going in it. Personally I wouldn't learn python these days as it's too slow without many hacks (source: I am a python developer). A high performance language like Julia will probably be preferable in the long run.


Try reading and following "The Mind Illuminated" by John Yates. It will help you identify when you are ruminating and not engage with it, which is a good start. It will also teach you to just sit with it when you want to engage with your addictions (which you probably do for escapism, to distract yourself from your thoughts). If you learn that thoughts are just thoughts and you don't have to engage with them, it will diminish the appeal of addictions, which is another good thing. Also, seeing a good therapist is also a very good idea.



Hey,

It seems that you are facing a acute depression episode. My suggestion is to search professional help. This phase is really difficult and painful, a psychiatrist can really help you.

Be safe!


It is okay you didn't waste time. I know what it feels like.

But I need to know more YOU. I mean where are you from? Are you boy or a girl? Do you have any chronic disease? Who else is in your family? What is your relationship with them? Do you have gf/bf?

You see your life is not separate partition: work, family, friends. Everything is connected and everything affects each other. I can throw some "pop-advice" at you but it will be useless. Also one thing is sure you need to visit Therapist, good one ASAP. Consider it as investment - kind of like going to Dentist, only for your mind. Good luck mate. May the force be with you :)

P.S: Please look into Stoicism too :)



From my experience: 1) Keep your chin up, and do not blame yourself. Depression is due to some kind of ill-defined toxic effect in your environment. It's not due to bad ideas you have, nor past negative experiences. 2) Eschew all medication. The doctors do not sufficiently understand depression and their medicines can be destructive. 3) Put work into your spiritual life. Do loving things, for this is the work of Love who will repay you with Happiness.


”Eschew all medication”

I would say that this question depends heavily on the situation. If someone wants to take their own life for example, that is something they might be able to avoid by medication. But there are definitely other alternatives that can be viable such as cognitive behavioral therapy and exercise. It’s hard to say without knowing the specifics.


Good sleep schedule. Get outside and ride a bike, hike, run. Meditate and have some tea. Microdose shroom on an early sunday morning walk.


Breathing. Psilocybin. Daily Long walks > 6km. Diet. Workout. Human interaction, careful selection.


I've often had some of the feeling you describe of zero motivation. What helps me is to ditch it with zero guilt for as long as it takes the itch to tinker to come back!


You have a shitty attitude (as do I). I usually need a drink to feel good about anything.

No advice here, but just know that functional alcoholism is a real thing.


I’ll echo much of the advice posted so far, with an emphasis on things you can do that can have low barriers: exercise, starting with walking with occasional speed-ups; same sleep and wake times every day; set limits on your eating, like only within an eight-hour window; and call around looking for a therapist that clicks. I can talk to just about anyone (rambling to a disinterested third party so as not to burden my friends and family is half of why I hire a therapist), but others may be more selective.

Some other things that have helped me crawl through and out of anxiety and depression:

Cold showers, because I feel so much better afterwards, and it’s a way to do a low-stakes difficult thing and thus build confidence to just go for it. Saves water and energy, too.

The Blindboy Podcast, because I enjoy his stories and his mental-health journey expositions. He sticks to his experiences, with which I have much in common.

WOOP: wish, outcome, obstacle, plan; rather than stop at the good feelings from a daydream, consider the obstacles and make a plan, each step in as few words as possible. Not my idea—-German psychologist, I think.

If you don’t already, breathe through your nose, if able (Breath, by James Nestor). Since I’ve been taping my mouth shut with a narrow strip of surgical tape I’ve been sleeping better, waking up to pee less often, and not losing so much water overnight, so I wake more-ready for the day. When I feel an anxiety spiral approaching, my best chance of interrupting it is by focusing on my breathing. A cold shower will do this for you, and then you keep it going. Wim Hof has some useful guided breathing narratives on that popular video site that Google bought awhile back.

Humming and singing are ways to create ephemeral art and stop the internal voices of negative self-talk and immature mantras [edit: intrusive thoughts].

Tiny Habits, by B.J. Fogg; even if you remember that you forgot to practice yoga, smile and pat yourself on the back for remembering.

So much to try! Forgive yourself for stumbling through life, for making mistakes after mistakes, for not sticking to plan, for letting yourself down, for indulging, etc. Intrinsically you are better than no one, no one is better than you, and you are worthy of love. What does it feel like to practice unconditional love for yourself? What does it feel like to be thankful to yourself? To others?

Edit to add: Blindboy ep153 is mostly about mental health, and there are numerous other episodes with that focus. This one has a reminder about the importance of compassion for others as a way to practice it if compassion for yourself is difficult. Also, imagining yourself time-traveling to visit your younger self during times of stress, and practicing being a good parent to yourself in those moments. I like this one as I work on not passing along my avoidable traumas to my child. Going back and simply sitting there with my confused, emotional younger self is a way to dissolve some residual stress.


Stop fapping. Take up some martial arts like Muay Thai or BJJ.




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